Mohammed Hijab – The Art of Debating- An introduction

Mohammed Hijab
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The importance of discussing debates in a unconventional way is emphasized in IslamNet's upcoming online class, including the need for a strategy. The speakers stress the importance of being flexible and not interrupting others, and provide examples of how it is important in various fields, including art, science, and political. They also discuss the use of rhoms in various situations, including misled and forgetting to use words, and provide class information on donating.

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			How are you guys doing and welcome to
		
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			the third and final session of the trinity
		
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			but more specifically actually this is going to
		
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			be an interactive session where we're going to
		
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			be doing some debates and interesting things together.
		
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			I want to start this session in a
		
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			you can call it unconventional manner by talking
		
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			about debates in general.
		
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			Debates in general, not talking about whether we
		
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			should be doing or not.
		
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			I think we've passed that stage.
		
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			Of course debates can be sometimes detrimental.
		
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			For example if you're doing them with your
		
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			wife, if you're doing them with people that
		
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			you shouldn't be doing them with.
		
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			But sometimes debates can be useful which is
		
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			why for example from our perspective we mention
		
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			the Qur'an and debate with them in
		
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			a way that is better.
		
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			But I really wanted to just think about
		
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			debates in a different kind of way because
		
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			debates, there's an aspect of debates which is
		
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			I would say empirical and more like a
		
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			science and there's an aspect of debates which
		
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			is more like an art.
		
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			Okay and everyone here if you want to
		
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			get into this and we have a world
		
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			-class debater in the audience as well we've
		
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			got Sabor Ahmed who's been involved in no
		
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			less than 200-300 informal debates and multiple
		
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			professional and formal debates.
		
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			So he's going to be in the room
		
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			too and I'm looking for your contributions in
		
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			this matter.
		
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			But debates, I don't know if you'd agree
		
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			with this Sabor but I think there's an
		
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			aspect of it which is more scientific or
		
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			more like a science and more an aspect
		
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			of it which is more like an art.
		
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			Which brings me to, I'm going to call
		
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			this the general template, the general template and
		
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			there's two things I want to cover before
		
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			we get started.
		
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			The general template which is what I'm going
		
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			to tell you three things that you should
		
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			be thinking about before you get into any
		
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			debate and number two, rhetoric which is in
		
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			many ways you could argue in some instances
		
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			even more important than the arguments that one
		
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			can make and I'll define that for you
		
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			and I'll tell you why that's important and
		
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			then we'll go into some of the sparring
		
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			rounds if you like.
		
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			You can test out using this template and
		
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			using what we talked about and also using
		
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			session one and two, the arguments that we've
		
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			already gone through in terms of the trinity
		
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			as the topic of discussion.
		
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			So in terms of the general template the
		
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			way I like to think about it okay
		
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			and I behind the scenes a bit like
		
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			Sabor, a bit like many other people when
		
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			people are doing high-profile debates this is
		
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			the template I give them when we're doing
		
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			the training with them.
		
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			Number one is that there are three things
		
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			that you need to have before you go
		
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			into a debate.
		
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			Number one is the arguments okay, number one
		
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			are arguments and depending on the format of
		
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			the debate you want to have more arguments
		
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			or you want to have less arguments.
		
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			I mean the general rule is less is
		
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			more and this is what Sabor always used
		
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			to advise me when I used to go
		
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			into debates is less is more.
		
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			It's better to make two or three good
		
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			arguments that the audience can remember than to
		
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			make six or seven arguments that the audience
		
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			will not remember.
		
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			Sometimes we have we think that the more
		
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			arguments we make the more clever we all
		
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			sound whatever but sticking to two or three
		
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			arguments can be good and connected to the
		
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			arguments that you make is the counter arguments
		
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			all the objections that you're going to be
		
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			handling because don't think that you're going to
		
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			a debate and the other person the interlocutor
		
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			is not going to have their own arguments
		
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			so you have this first subsection which you
		
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			can call it arguments and underneath it you
		
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			have arguments your own offensive if you like
		
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			arguments and then you have counter arguments or
		
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			objection handling so these are the two aspects
		
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			there's no other thing okay so the first
		
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			thing was arguments the second thing is strategy
		
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			okay now a strategy is an overarching way
		
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			where in which someone achieves a particular objective
		
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			all right I know Sabor has so much
		
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			information about his read all of these guys
		
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			you know the strategists and they become very
		
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			obsessive about the matter and military strategists and
		
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			this and that you know but it's a
		
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			lot the same thing applies and most military
		
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			strategists say there's a difference in number two
		
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			and three which is tactics there's a difference
		
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			between strategies and tactics and we'll talk about
		
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			the difference in the context of the base
		
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			and also in general but a strategy is
		
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			that you have a plan to get to
		
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			your destination now let me give an example
		
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			of the strategy for example football 11-a
		
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			-side football for example a counter-attack strategy
		
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			we were just talking about like for example
		
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			we were watching morocco in the world cup
		
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			and how they were responding they kind of
		
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			understood where the how to deal with the
		
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			the bigger teams like you know like portugal
		
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			and spain and so on so they would
		
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			whenever they get the ball they would counter
		
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			so you can call this and many fighters
		
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			we're talking about fighting before this because the
		
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			big fights coming on the 14th um that
		
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			there's a counter-attack strategy and many many
		
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			fighters i was just talking to roy johns
		
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			jr you know um one of the great
		
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			boxers of our time and carlos was there
		
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			filming it as well and he said that
		
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			you know he would just counter so much
		
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			so that some of his opponents because he
		
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			kept countering counter and countering they didn't want
		
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			to punch in the first place it debilitated
		
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			them so the art of countering is wait
		
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			for your opponent to make the argument first
		
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			you stay quiet you wait for them to
		
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			make the first move and then whatever from
		
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			whatever they've done and said then you respond
		
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			so you're waiting for them you kind of
		
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			know what they're going to do and based
		
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			on what they've said you're going to counter
		
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			them yeah never interrupt your enemy when they're
		
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			making a mistake yeah so this is uh
		
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			number two number three is tactics now tactics
		
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			are you know specific ways which you um
		
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			enact your strategy so for example i don't
		
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			like for example in a football context passing
		
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			in a particular manner crossing in a particular
		
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			manner that's not a strategy that's more of
		
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			a tact that's a tactical thing you know
		
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			or for example in a debate context um
		
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			body language using particular cues or particular insults
		
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			and we'll get to insults in a second
		
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			because you might think what the * is
		
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			he talking about this people that tell you
		
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			your ad hominem fallacy and stuff throw that
		
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			in the bin throw that thing in the
		
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			bin i mean ad hominem fallacies when you
		
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			attack the person sometimes you need to attack
		
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			the people and we'll talk about that especially
		
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			in the art of humiliation and this might
		
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			sound completely off-key but there is a
		
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			time where you need to humiliate somebody in
		
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			a debate and that's how you win it's
		
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			part of the strategy where you may say
		
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			well that's not my style i say respect
		
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			to you respect to you however if you
		
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			if you need to do it you might
		
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			be at work you might not even be
		
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			in a debate context somebody about humiliating your
		
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			co-workers actually humiliating you and the most
		
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			appropriate response is to humiliate them back and
		
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			this is in fact what happened in the
		
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			quran where noah said that if you try
		
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			and mock us we will mock you as
		
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			you mock us so mockery there is a
		
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			place for that in debate sometimes there is
		
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			a place arguable and some people will remove
		
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			it complete from the repertoire and i appreciate
		
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			that but as i say debating is more
		
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			like an art than it is a science
		
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			and what you want with it of course
		
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			of course so a good way of thinking
		
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			about it is a strategy is to for
		
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			example put your opponent in a dilemma where
		
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			they are going to make then you're not
		
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			giving them a problem to solve yes you're
		
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			basically telling them you see they're going to
		
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			be this way or that way so for
		
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			example yeah you cite a particular academic and
		
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			you say to them well you need to
		
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			prove that this academic that you were refuting
		
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			is actually wrong now if he doesn't attack
		
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			the academic you can say you're a coward
		
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			and if they do attack the academic you're
		
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			basically saying so you're taking on an academic
		
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			you're giving them a dilemma so that's the
		
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			strategy and the tactic within that is for
		
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			example use of certain words in a rhetorical
		
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			way so for example really you want to
		
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			attack that guy like really like so always
		
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			think of it from the perspective that tactics
		
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			are kind of dispensable but the strategy is
		
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			indispensable and the strategy has to begin off
		
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			with how you want the audience to feel
		
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			about that person because people don't remember what
		
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			you say they remember how you made them
		
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			feel and they remember how you made the
		
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			opponent look like that's what's most important this
		
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			is a phenomenal point because it's uh what
		
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			you're saying here that this should be almost
		
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			quoted that you know tactics are dispensable but
		
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			strategies are indispensable this is a very important
		
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			thing tactics are the most of the three
		
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			things that we spoke about malleable things and
		
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			arguments on the other hand and strategies they're
		
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			not that malleable you've got to have one
		
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			strategy of dealing with the situation otherwise you're
		
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			you're aimless here so this is the three
		
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			you've got to think about any debate you
		
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			go what are what are my arguments what
		
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			my counter objections number one number two what
		
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			is my uh what is my strategy and
		
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			number three is what are my tactics now
		
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			the second part of what i'm talking to
		
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			you about is rhetoric now rhetoric is such
		
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			an important thing and i'll tell you something
		
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			i mean it's so important it's one of
		
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			the ways that scholars of islam say that
		
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			islam proves itself and that is that the
		
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			quran itself is from god that how to
		
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			prove the quran is from god through the
		
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			rhetoric the balaga is for balaga in arabic
		
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			of the quran and therefore from our perspective
		
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			as muslims the most rhetorical book from a
		
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			linguistic perspective is in fact the quran but
		
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			somebody could argue that if the quran is
		
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			so rhetorical the verses of the quran that
		
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			sorry to say seem quite mundane in terms
		
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			of their information how can you how can
		
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			you allege that such verses are using rhetorical
		
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			devices for example that to the male is
		
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			double of what the female has or the
		
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			inheritance laws or this or that the other
		
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			this is mathematical things almost now by the
		
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			way i mean even those verses have a
		
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			rhyme scheme etc but before that the arab
		
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			rhetoricians they have a particular definition of rhetoric
		
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			which i think is quite interesting for our
		
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			purposes which is that rhetorical speech is speech
		
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			which is it is in line with the
		
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			situation which is happening at that current moment
		
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			so for example what is the most appropriate
		
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			use of language in a news forecast like
		
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			someone is telling you what it's going to
		
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			be what the weather is going to be
		
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			like in the next couple of days no
		
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			let's say for example just normal weather like
		
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			you know 17 degrees whatever if someone were
		
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			to start speaking in a very persuasive manner
		
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			in this context and started flaring their arms
		
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			and say oh the weather is going to
		
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			be 17 degrees celsius would it make sense
		
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			and it would to the end user kind
		
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			of seem a little bit off-putting you
		
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			wouldn't want to see that person again or
		
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			you would assume that that person doesn't know
		
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			how to react or doesn't know how to
		
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			use words in a particular situation so when
		
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			you consider that true rhetoric is when you
		
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			use certain words appropriately in a specific situation
		
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			then let's go back to the you know
		
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			the inheritance verses or any other verses that
		
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			speak about things which are seemingly mundane which
		
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			are actually guidance for us etc but those
		
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			are rhetorical from that angle not necessarily from
		
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			the angle that they're using lots of emotive
		
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			language or persuasive devices Cicero had a very
		
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			very interesting you know understanding of rhetoric and
		
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			Cicero basically emphasized the role of emotion and
		
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			just exactly what Sabor mentioned that the people
		
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			don't remember what you say but they remember
		
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			what how you made them feel so Cicero
		
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			is talking about if you want to be
		
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			rhetorical you have to engage emotionally with the
		
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			audience and that's in fact what Aristotle said
		
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			as well and he called that pathos pathos
		
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			is your ability to engage emotionally with the
		
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			end user and you will find that this
		
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			is all over the Quran and this is
		
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			where the real study of the Quran one
		
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			day inshallah we'll go through this together and
		
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			we'll talk about how the Quran uses rhetorical
		
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			devices for example how many rhetorical questions are
		
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			in the Quran the calamity and what is
		
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			the calamity and what will make you know
		
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			what the calamity is can you see three
		
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			questions and it's all building suspense when I
		
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			used to teach English I used to teach
		
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			English and I used to teach kids actually
		
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			rhetorical devices in English that was one of
		
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			the things I used to teach them basic
		
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			things I mean you've got to have some
		
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			of them up your sleeve emotive language rule
		
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			of three alliteration assonance sibilance it's so easy
		
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			to do all you've got to do is
		
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			get two words with the same letter for
		
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			example or mention three adjectives in it because
		
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			you want to sound rhythmic you know sometimes
		
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			it's good to use big words and sometimes
		
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			it's not good to use big words sometimes
		
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			it's good to use sometimes I intentionally use
		
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			big words as a means of using the
		
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			audience why do you want to pontificate in
		
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			a sesquibedalian way you know whatever what's he
		
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			saying is he even speaking English yeah you
		
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			know what I mean so you can throw
		
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			that in it's like salt in the food
		
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			but as my dad would tell me that
		
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			if you put too much of it you
		
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			know the food becomes ruined so you can
		
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			do whatever you like in terms of rhetoric
		
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			there are lots of things you can do
		
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			there but the main point is to engage
		
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			the end user in some rhetorical way it's
		
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			a bit like music actually very similar music
		
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			the reason why people listen to it is
		
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			because they're using chords they're using instruments and
		
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			they're using voice and lyrics in combination in
		
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			concert with one another to engage with a
		
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			person emotionally in many ways music is one
		
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			of the best expressions of rhetoric humankind has
		
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			ever known even though obviously I'm not talking
		
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			about how I'm just telling you like the
		
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			idea is why they got five billion views
		
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			on on youtube for a music video six
		
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			six billion how many people on the earth
		
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			anyway how could that even be the case
		
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			even the children are listening to this babies
		
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			I don't know how that happened by the
		
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			way you got some tracks that got six
		
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			billion views but the point I'm making is
		
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			because the combination of chords that are being
		
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			used they're doing something to a human being
		
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			but but what's more impressive is without any
		
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			chords the Quran for instance just uses words
		
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			and the combination of words is having such
		
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			and such effects on human beings that's really
		
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			where the miracle of the Quran is by
		
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			the way okay so what we're going to
		
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			do in the next um you know 20
		
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			to 30 minutes is we'll have the we'll
		
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			have the class divided into one two three
		
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			one two four five six seven eight nine
		
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			yeah and Ali's going to come so it's
		
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			going to be ten so five and five
		
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			and so we'll have four on this for
		
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			now and then four versus five and then
		
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			when Ali comes in with five versus five
		
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			and we have um I'll give you five
		
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			or ten minutes just to prepare with the
		
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			person next to you your arguments your strategies
		
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			and your tactics and we're going to have
		
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			one-on-ones christian versus a muslim are
		
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			they christian versus muslim and then we're going
		
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			to switch so everyone's going to get a
		
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			chance and I'm going to time this one
		
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			so everyone's going to have two minutes I'm
		
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			thinking 90 seconds to two minutes maybe 90
		
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			seconds even to make a point yeah and
		
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			then that person's going to make a counter
		
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			argument and then we're going to switch over
		
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			and I'm going to give this the left
		
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			group the initiative meaning you're going to make
		
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			the first argument you're going to start and
		
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			you're going to have the counter and you're
		
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			going to go back and forth twice and
		
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			then we're going to switch over and do
		
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			the same thing again using the arguments that
		
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			we've already spoken about in the first and
		
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			the second session so I'll give you guys
		
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			a good five ten minutes to prepare for
		
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			the arguments and then I say I'm going
		
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			to give you guys the initiative right christians
		
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			and then you guys uh will respond in
		
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			kind and um and then we'll switch over
		
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			hey you are you watching my videos again
		
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			pause that and do something for slum that
		
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06
			is establishing a scandinavian mega mosque and dawah
		
00:17:06 --> 00:17:10
			center in oslo the fastest growing city in
		
00:17:10 --> 00:17:11
			europe do you want to share in that
		
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13
			reward click the link below and donate now