Radical Zionist Embarrassed by Muslim Debater

Mohammed Hijab


Channel: Mohammed Hijab

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Israel is just another case study in the crimes of nationalism in that it is a nation state exclusively for one racial group doesn't mean that it excludes other racial groups, but the nation state only represents one particular group, which is usually facilitated by a hopeful majority of that particular group. So it's not not to go back to the founders of Zionism, as you mentioned, them.

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Vito hertzel, basically, didn't really give much regard to the natives of Palestine didn't give much regard to how they're going. What about their aspirations? What about their representation in government? What about government for them? So first? Yes, he tried to ask the ultimate califf if he could, if he can sell it if they can sell the land to the zinus. And of course, he said, No.

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But nationalism doesn't just say, Well, okay, then fair dues we'll accept that. Nazism says we need to try all the strategies, because the ends justifies the means if it is necessary for the national interest if it is necessary for the national interest. And so they looked all avenues and Britain was a very willing Avenue, especially the money and the support, and it also advantages for Britain at the time. Balfour gave an introduction to a book on the history of Zionism. So he was certainly a solid supporter of Zionism. If you think that,

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that the colonies in South Africa or the colonies of the pilgrims or that the Puritan pilgrims in Pennsylvania, were were colonialist were settler colonies. These were established mainly at the resources of private individuals, of course, with the permission of the various governments, or the Dutch East, the Dutch East India Company, which would private corporations establishing these colonies, and we have no problem calling them settler colonies. But suddenly, we have a problem with calling the Zionist project which was established with international banking institutions or organizations that were called collars and colonization organizations with no regard to the natives.

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Why should that be different? And I want to quote you something and then I'll let you kind of come back very briefly. So he said, the idea of colonization of Palestine is moreover connected with the remarkable colonizing impetus, which is taking hold of the entire modern world and judged by outward characteristics are the European migrations to foreign lands, their colonization and development so very different so very different from the this feature of Jewish aspiration. So it's it's very different from the the feature of Jewish aspirations. He's saying as a question about their exuberant energy finds no appropriate outlet in Europe. And so seek a faraway wait may be usefully

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employed for the furthering of civilization in the midst of backward countries and nations fruitful Jewish energy, which is being kept under in the diaspora will be gathered and transplanted to Palestine, they proved true to itself and to the whole of civilization.

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So they describe themselves as settler colonists. They use the the terminology, and they even compared their aspirations to the European colonization project. Are we so different to them as a positive thing? Because because everyone was doing at the time, they said, Why don't we get a piece of the action? Why can't we do exactly the same thing? So that would be my main rebuttal to it. And as I said, settler, colonialism being where a group of people who they carry their sovereignty with them, and they basically take over the sovereignty of a land which might have other people which can involve and most like usually does involve the transplantation or the exiting of those people. And

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to kind of finish up are also mentioned Theodore hertz wrote in his diary on 12 June 1895. He said regarding

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lands when we occupy the land or in Palestine, we shall bring forth immediate benefits to the state that that receives us. We must expropriate generally the private property on the state's assigned to us, we shall try to spirit the penance population across the border by procuring employment for its in transit countries while denying if any employment in our country. Okay, so he basically said that even though he didn't talk about forced expulsion, but he talked about a type of expropriation of the property in the lands of the people within the lands, which are appropriate, which are given to them by whichever Power Of course, and the spiritual way, so, putting the pennis population which

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already existed,

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finding ways to get them to other places move the model places, which he hoped by the carrot, not by the stick, but by the carrot, which is tried to get employment for them in other countries. And this was also replicated by this the sentiment was also mentioned by many of the earliest the late designers founders, who talked about finding employment for landless Arabs, which were being created to define Zionist colonization and the nine employment back in Palestine. So they couldn't, they couldn't find employment back in Palestine. And only available in point would be outside of Palestine and then they can leave Palestine. So that will be that point. So basically, it said the

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current cronyism transfer the population or the beginning was envisioned by the carrot, not by the stick. They said they compare themselves to other colonial projects, many settler colonial projects, which we would always call we would have no problem calling settler colonialism. Like the Puritans in Pennsylvania, saying that they colony on the British chart on the charter, they didn't use any soldiers from the crown to do so. The Dutch East India Company in South Africa, they didn't use state soldiers to do so takeover of communism land was a private venture by themselves, they had permission from the government. How designers who use permission from whichever government controls

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the land or has the land believes it is has sovereignty of the land, to, you know, to take that land, from its inhabitants, ie from by creating the sovereignty, which is not the sovereignty of its inhabitants, but the sovereignty of those who are coming into it. How is that different set of cronyism, if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, and the duck says it's a duck, within it's a duck on to hertz or to begin with the quotes that you brought up the law, we're actually talking about Argentina. And he actually if you read his diaries, when he talks about the promised land, he says the promised land is within us. It's the ability for us to create a state to state to

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escape mitzrayim, the ninth of June 19 8095. This is what he says in this day. Again, the data that you've read in Palestine disfavor it is it's in Palestine disfavor is its proximity to Russia and Europe, its lack of room for expansion, as well as its climate, which we are no longer accustomed to, because we obviously speaking as a European Jew,

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a pretty cold climate, in its favor, is the mighty legend. Obviously, for him, he's not a religious person, and he sees the connection of the Jews, the land is so mighty legend, but yeah, what is effectively saying is our our strong connection to this place. And so

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what we see from here is when hurtles writing to himself, and this is why he favors Argentina, which is Argentina, which is going to lead into the next point. But when he's writing to himself, he's honest, and he said he doesn't his concern with Palestine is it's close to the Europeans and the Russians. He doesn't want to be in that mix. He doesn't want to be in the mix of the Ottomans. Right. That's crazy for him. He wants to be in the new world where he's safe, where the Jews won't have to worry about the superpowers that will oppress them like they have done. Since the Jews were exiled. 2000 years ago, you mentioned a very famous quote. And what again, you fail to mention was

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he's not talking about Palestine, he's talking about Argentina, and it was the penniless quote. And so let me let me read the entire passage and then explain what it says. So when we occupied the So again, this is 12th of June 1885. When we occupy the land, we shall bring a mate and he's talking about Argentina here. We shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receipt state that receives us, we must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. So he's already saying this is land that has been assigned to us. Not coming in by force. We shall trade the spirit the penniless population across the border, we shall try to separate away the private penulis

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population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries. So nothing about expulsion. It's like we're going to help the by giving them work in other countries, which will be better for them. This is hertzel speaking not me. Oh, it is a sentiment of hurt so while denying it any employment in our own country because he wants to build a big Jewish state where Jews have autonomy, which you don't have in Europe. And if we move in and it goes

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On and on and on, but effectively, he's not talking about Palestine. He's talking about Argentina. He's talking about people who don't own the land. He's talking about people who live on the land, who are penniless and he saying we can help them get employment elsewhere. Let's go back to what you said about Theodor Hertzog. So fiddleheads was diary, quote, was written in the summer of 1895. At that point, he actually hadn't decided whether it was going to be Palestine or Argentina. So he didn't reference any particular countries when you said that he was referring to Argentina. That's, that's not exactly true. Right. And, you know, he didn't actually mention any particular he was

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hadn't yet decided at that point, whether it was going to be Argentina or Palestine. But you missed the point of the entire quote, which is he might have, even if I was to concede it was Argentina, even if I was to give you that. He still outline what he intends to do to any place he most clearly lies somewhere. Right. The question is where where's the target?

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Zionism wouldn't be any less settler colonialist. Just because it targets Argentina.

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Okay, so it's a moot point. So you're basically arguing that, well, you know, he, yeah, he was going to set a cocoon someplace, but he hadn't decided was person at that point was like, Well, alright, but that still doesn't change the point, that Zionism is settler colonialism. So that needs to be really addressed.

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If you enjoy the arguments presented in the debate and want to know more, and learn how to debate discuss and advocate for Palestine yourself, register now for the Palestine advocacy course, and raise the bar in Muslim argument and activism. Please follow this link. The link is also available in the description.