Mohammed Hijab – Intellectual Seerah #19 The Conquest of Makkah
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AI: Transcript ©
How are you guys doing? And welcome to
this new session of the intellectual where we're
going to be discussing potentially one of the
most important things, one of the most important
events
of all
of human history. Yes. It is. Fat Hamakkah
or the conquest of Mecca,
the time where is it is demarcated
in human history
where Islam started to proliferate, really, if you
think about it, outside of its own geographical
borders.
This is when Mecca was conquered by the
prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.
This is the time where we can analyze
the behaviors, the psychologies
of not just a prophet himself,
but his companions as well.
In fact, by looking at some of the
things that have happened in the Fatha of
Mecca or the conquest of Mecca, we're ill
also able to see the extent to which
Islam is, quote, unquote, religion of violence,
a religion of barbarism,
of backwardness,
of killing the people, innocence, and so on.
Because we will see
the magnanimous
nature of the prophet Muhammad and
the forgiving nature of this man.
Because let me tell you something
before we start.
I should say this,
that many people look at the life of
the prophet and they say, look at him.
He's a man that was obsessed with war.
A man
that was engaged in military warfare all of
his life.
A man
who inspired those people to conquer all these
territories and colonize the world and so on
and so forth.
This is probably the most long standing moral
argument against Islam. In fact, Montgomery Watt himself
states that interestingly,
I was looking at his assessment in his
book about the Sira,
and Montgomery Wat doesn't mention anything about the
age of Aisha in there at all, 0.
From what I remember, he does not mention.
He has a brief mentioning of Zena bin
to Josh.
But he supposes that really, he's saying this
himself in the 1900, before the new age,
before whatever happened.
That the
greatest moral argument against Islam is an argument
from violence.
Because once again, the medieval
Christians, for example, the Crusaders and
the Spanish Christians and all these other Christian
nations,
they needed to make sense of their own
defeat.
So instead of
mentioning that this is a success from the
Muslims, that this is barbarism. This is violence.
This is so on and so forth.
But I say
that this Fat Hamakkah is one of the
best
evidences as an argument
against this notion.
And that's why it's very important for us
to look at it.
Our first thing is,
you'll find that there was a treaty. We
spoke about it before, the Treaty of Hudaybia.
And the Treaty of Hudaybia
actually was amenable
to other people coming in
and attach themselves
to the protection of either the Qurashis or
the Muslims.
So you have 2 major tribes,
the Huza
and the Banu Bakr.
And historically,
the Qurashis
were connected to the Huza tribe, which is
a major
tribe.
And the Qurashis,
had the pact with Banubakr,
the polytheist
Qurashis. So in the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah,
the Muslims had allied themselves
with Huzah
and the Qurayshi pagans had allied themselves
with Banu Bakr, which means, as you'd know
if you started even 20th century history,
that an attack on the tribe is likely
attack on
the protectors of the tribe. That's why in,
even in modern history you had for example,
Austria, Hungary, and then you had, you know,
Italy and so on. You had all these
different people allying with each other. You had
the allies.
In 2nd World War, you had the allies,
you had the axis.
And that one an attack on one nation
meant the attack on all of the nations
that were allied to those nations.
So this idea of allegiance
was something which continues to this day. It's
not foreign even to European ears,
which is ironic because many people don't understand
this or this context.
So what happened was the Berubakar
decided to attack the Huza. And don't forget,
the Huza were under the protection
of the Muslim people.
But what was more troubling and disturbing
was that the Huzah
decided to attack
sorry. The decided to attack the Huzah
with the tacit permission
of the Qurashis,
the pagan Arabs. They knew it,
and they let it happen.
And bear in mind,
that from For a long time now, the
Muslims had been a dominant force. They could
have gone in with force and broken the
agreement, but as we said before,
the word is your honor. And Islam, the
idea is your word is your honor. You
cannot break an agreement unless they break it
first.
And they did break it first.
And they broke it by tacitly colluding
with the Banu Bakr
to attack the Huzaa, which was under the
protection of the Muslims, and they had a
joint allegiance together.
And as such, now, officially,
the contract had ended.
However,
the prophet
did not pronounce did not announce this to
the people.
Because had he announced this,
they would have tried to, a, either reconcile
or, b,
they would have been prepared for defense.
In either case, it would not be in
the interest, the political interest of the Muslim
people for such announcement to happen.
And so what happened was,
Abu Sufyan,
who now, as we remember,
he was the guy who was the general
in Uhud and so on and so forth.
Now, probably the undisputed
leader,
he is the undisputed
leader of Mecca.
Abu Sufyan is the undisputed because who is
who else can take his place?
But now he knows that there is, the
balance of power has changed.
And as such, she goes to
Al Medina
to try and seek some kind of reconciliation.
But I looked at some of the Hadiths,
and unfortunately,
they're all
inauthentic.
I mean, I didn't come across a single,
authentic,
Hadith about the story of Abu Sufyan,
going to Medina and so on. I only
saw them in the Sira literature like, you
know, Ibn Hisham, Ibn Ishaq and this one,
that one. In fact, some of the contradictory,
in some of the minor details that did
he go to the prophet Muhammad first, or
did he go to Omar Bla Omar and
Abu Bakr Siddiq and Ali ibn Abutaleb first?
But all of
them bring a picture that he was basically
rejected by everybody.
And Ali was the most soft with him.
And the Umar was the most tough with
him. This is the bottom line.
And that this is, you know, he came
there trying to seek some kind of protection.
And the story show that kind of thing.
In fact, even one of the narrations
show that Abu Sufyan
went to Al Hassan,
who was a boy, to try and seek
protection.
I mean, you imagine the levels here. This
is almost now, so to say, a humiliation
ritual.
This is what this is.
I mean, when you go to because he
knows the idea anyone can give you protection.
And let me a pop quiz.
When was the time when we spoke about
last time where somebody gave somebody a protection
who was non Muslim? So so a Muslim
gave a non Muslim protection. Who who remembers?
Who? Yeah. Yeah. Go on. What's what's his,
what's her name?
The prophet daughter?
Fatima. No. No. Not Fatima. Zainab. Zainab. Yeah.
Zainab. Yeah. There you go. Zaynab. Zaynab. Her
husband. And who who's her husband called?
Abelas. Yeah. So that so she was given
it. She was given it's it's unfair if
you get involved here.
We usually ask you for the answers.
Yeah. The answer and the protection was given
and the protection
was given. So this idea of a listed
man,
a mystic man where you give protection to
someone,
if anyone gives it,
anybody in the Muslim world. And as I
said, we spoke about before the Taliban, it
was it's very,
you you know you know best. So
tell me more about
okay. You guys should tell me,
from Afghanistan because the the idea of a
statement still applies, doesn't it, in Afghanistan? Still.
So we have, a tribe in Afghanistan.
So
they are called.
Meaning in Pashto, pig.
Wow. So it says that once a pig
seek refuge in a house of an,
somebody over there,
and other people were after it, chasing it
to kill it. So the people take a
refuge and then fight,
become
it become a fight between people while you
give protection to this animal because they hate
it. And they say, no. This is a
refuge that it takes. So it's called Hogyari
nowadays.
The name of that Say that again? Yeah.
Hoyani. Hoyani. Some people have said so the
idea of the
so
some people,
in our country, they still think and that
this is a reality that for 1 Arab,
we destroy the whole country.
So after Bin Laden
for 1 Arab, we destroy the whole country,
and this show the level of
importance of this,
estimate. Yeah. So after Osama bin Laden, he
was in Afghanistan.
And after this 911
so the United States asked Taliban to hand
hand him over. Yeah.
And then, they rejected and said he is
a Muslim, and we need to protect him.
If they can ask you a question. If
if it was, like, for example, a non
Muslim,
because we know Islam that a non Muslim
can get a stickman
from the Muslims. Has that ever happened in
in Afghanistan? Still still it would happen because
Yeah. They feel that whoever, even a pig,
if he is sick and refuse, still you
need to that's a that's good news for
you there, isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah. That's that's a moment somebody will become
proud of it
because,
they they they will fight for it.
Really? Yeah. If somebody's coming to take him
or take it,
that's why so So that's in Afghanistan. Is
that is that Pashto culture, like, throughout all
all the Yeah. Yeah. Europe,
some sometimes
so Afghans,
they, accuse the neighbor countries
for handing over some people to Americans or
others and still they they
see that country
as not having a iira or something because
why you hand over a Muslim to non
Muslim
Mhmm. And you're giving because of money or
political interest, whatever. Really? You need to destroy
the country but
keep him. Hold him. Yeah. No. No. He's
a Saudi Arabian.
Really?
No. No. No. No. Come on. He's, he's
as he said, they destroyed the country because
I want an Arab.
Yes. Somebody is a guest in your home
Yeah. In our culture.
Can you tell us what your culture is
and Kurdish culture. Yeah. Can you tell us?
No. But Ali doesn't know anything about this.
Much much much.
So you you're obliged to protect them with
your life?
So
or even your village Mhmm. They're obliged to
protect the with their lives. Yeah.
So nobody can harm the guest. So it's
in Kurdish culture, it's in past due culture.
What other what other tribes are really good
with this, would you say? Well, I'd say
central Asian. Definitely not the Egyptians in this
matter. I I can't I don't even know
what what tribes they have there. In Somali
culture, bro, is there anything there?
Do do do do they do it? I
think Somali is quite principled as well. Yeah.
No. No. I'm saying I'm saying this idea
of a stiff man. I'm trying to figure
out what tribes still have there.
No. In Yemen like, Yemeni culture, a 100%.
Like, you know The Chechens, Dagestanis probably have
this. Central Asia. I'll be Central Asian have
it. Yeah. Absolutely. Or do they have tribes
like that as well? Yes. Yeah. The Tamil
people, Rahu Mountain people. Anybody, any mountain culture,
they will have something similar to this. Mhmm.
But for us, if if if you're a
guest in my house,
within the four walls Mhmm. That I occupy,
I'm obliged to protect you with my life.
It's like that as well in Sheikh in
Saudi Arabia with some of the tribes, isn't
it? Yeah. Yeah. What's that story? Did you
guys see that story? I can't I remember
that. These 2 men run into they gave
protection and then,
like, it came at a cost where they
lost their children. They set their kids on
fire or something. Where have you guys heard
of it? Recently. No. No. No. It's
I heard of someone. It was it was
like this. They gave them protection. They were
saying, listen. We will kill your kids. They
killed my kids. Really? Yeah. They killed the
they killed the kids. It's way. In a.
They said, no. I'm still not letting them
go. That's how it works. Yeah? Yes. It's
like that. It usually works in that like,
this is really more mostly in the tribal
cultures, isn't it? Like
Baluchi. Baluchi is in that. Yeah. Baluchi. Absolutely.
Yeah. Not only kids, they will destroy the
whole community. Yeah. Yeah. Care. But still, they
will keep that name that they protected that
guy.
And they remember these stories go back 500
years. You know, you'll remember something.
I'll remember when such and such protected my
family. I think it's so honorable, isn't it?
It is. So beautiful. She can't have this.
This guy Yeah. They didn't. Did. Yeah. So
It's such a weird Did they have a
Sheikh de Mushrik? So they have it as
much?
They do have that. Yeah. Yeah. The prophet
himself was yeah. And he utilized it through
one of the heads of I mean, I
mean, let let's be let's be fair to
the Europeans here. Back from Taif.
Oh, the Europeans have it as well. Do
they? Of course, they have it in the
form of citizenship
because they will protect you so long as
you have the passport.
Yeah. But if it's the same guy, but
you're in another country, don't kill you bro.
Don't give
a damn. You know, if you're in color
then it's
equals 100 years of loyalty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So if you if if I drink a
glass of water in your home Yeah. Give
me that water so I can give it
to my wife.
They'll they'll still have a problem with it.
They'll still have a problem with it, by
the way. In our country, we we say
we say tea. Mhmm.
Tea has a if you have a shell
like a tea or something. Absolutely. Really? Yeah.
That's that's really, really profound. How are these
Europeans? They send them to Rwanda.
Rwanda is a beautiful country, by the way.
The the the the the the guys are
being sent there, they're already thinking that they're
gonna go to some shanty towns or something
like that. They're coming out of East London
or West London or something. They land in
Rwanda. This is better than where I was
before.
Rwanda is the Wakanda. You've seen it before,
haven't you? Yeah. Look, I was there a
few weeks ago.
Rwanda is amazing. It's amazing but it's so
clean, isn't it? I've seen the vlogs and
stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Beautiful. Organized.
Why Rwanda? It's it's the most organized African
country. Why are you sending them there?
Yeah.
I don't know why they are to all
countries, but Rwanda is a is a very
organized and very money motivated
country with the price is right.
Okay.
So that was a humiliation ritual
that that he had to go through.
So what's really interesting is that the serial
writers say that the process of Islam didn't
tell anybody about what he was gonna do.
He didn't even tell his wife, he didn't,
you know, Aisha,
he didn't even tell, a wakasiddiq,
which is closest friend. He didn't tell anybody,
about anything.
And 10,000 fires gathered,
and there's a famous story. I'm not gonna
go into too much detail about this, but
there's a famous story of how to be
in the.
Now this guy
called
basically he sent a letter to his family
in Mecca warning
them that the prophet was gonna come,
and that the Muslims are coming.
And when the Muslims found out about that,
you know, Omar wanted to kill him. He
said, let me kill this. Let me kill
this guy, this. He may take fear of
him, which is very in interesting and important
actually because the prophet of salam corrected this
notion. He said he wasn't a kafir, he
wasn't this believer,
and that in fact, because he was a
person of better.
Now there's so many discussions about this in.
They say, well, the reason why, the why,
the prophet gave him concession was because he
was a,
was because he went to bed. Other say,
no. It wasn't. It couldn't be because how
could it be that bed makes you into
it gives you, Hakida immunity,
for example.
Like, you know, in the Quran, it says,
it says,
For example, Allah says to the prophet Muhammad
himself,
that I I will destroy your deeds, and
you will be of the losers. Allah is
saying that to the prophet Muhammadu alaihi wa
sallam.
He's saying, if you do shirk, I'll destroy
you.
Which means that when it comes to issues
or issues to do with theology,
no one has an exception card. You can't
say, oh, because I went to bedder. I
I went there. Therefore, I can do.
What was that?
No. That's what I'm saying. So the idea
is that you have a group of people
that out there that say that if you
if you ally
with the disbelievers in any
any way, shape, or form, if you ally
with the disbelievers, you're a disbeliever. Disbeliever. And
that is usually the view of the Takfirists,
people like ISIS,
people like, Al Qaeda.
This is their argument, by the way. Al
Qaeda make this argument. They make the argument
that,
you know, it's you're a disbeliever because you're
allying yourself
with a disbelieving nation who believe in.
Because you're allying yourself with them, therefore,
you're a disbeliever like them. But the story
of how to
because the reason why he done he done
this, he sent a letter. He was asked,
why did you do this? The reason why
I did it is because everyone else has
a connection with Mecca.
Everyone else has people to protect them there.
I don't have anyone there.
So I wanted to tell my because I
got my mom is there. My sisters I
wanted to tell them just in case if
anything happened, I could say, well, I warned
you before. I could get some favor from
them. Yeah? So they don't kill me.
So basically, it was It
was to do with the dunya.
Okay? Now it was clearly wrong. It was
haram. You could even see it was kabiram
al kabar. It was very bad deed, very
bad sin, very bad whatever.
But the fact that the prophet Muhammad did
not call it
is evidence that it was not,
which is also evidence that allying yourself with
these believers,
even if it may look like it's against
the believers,
is not always an evidence that that person
has committed.
Even though Amalur Khattab came to that conclusion
in the first place, he was corrected by
Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Salam.
The the issue of
actually is one of the worst thorns in
the side of the tech furious movements.
Like when I have a discussion with them,
and they say, well, you know,
this and that. If you bring the case
of
and ask them to explain it on their
world view, because they think that if you
connect yourself with the disbelievers in any way,
shape, or form, that you become like them.
They all they all say, usually, the the
defenses,
yeah, the defenses, he was Badri.
The reason why the prophet
gave him concession is because he had.
Yeah. He went to Bedir.
But then the question would be, how could
going to Bednar,
which is in a how could I give
you concession to do whatever you want?
You know, you know, the the Hadith, it
says that those who go into Bednar as
as as if Allah said, do whatever you
want. It's as if they've taken that literally.
Yeah. So what is the Islam
has become like a Christianity.
You believe in one thing is it die
for the sins. Finished. You can commit shirk
even. What what what what is this? What
are you saying? So what I'm saying is
that is the view of Takfir,
of people like Al Qaeda and ISIS and
other groups
is readily defeated
or repudiated
or refuted
by the case study of Hatim ibn Abi
Balta.
Oh, sorry. Hatim ibn Abi Balta, not Hat.
If someone today,
okay,
he
he, for example,
connected themselves United States of America,
in a way, to get some money.
Yeah?
He started doing certain things, and maybe
he did it. Even if Jes was, sorry
to say, I'm gonna go for I found
this. He was a bit of a spy
for for the Mi 5. Can we make
Teck feel just on that? No.
They would say, maybe, yes. You should kill
him because he's a catheter. But I'm saying,
really, this this case study, we'd have to
now take precaution before making on this issue.
Do you see what I mean? Because of
the case of Hatab now, we have to
now the whole this case has made Takfir
more difficult
on the basis of allying yourself with a
people
who are disbelieving people for a dunya y
purpose.
And this is connected to this idea of
or a ruling with what other than what
Allah has revealed is tawali, the idea of
connection. There's so many things here which we
don't have the scope to talk about, but
it's important for you to know that this
is a,
important and vibrant discussion.
The miraculous aspect of the story is that
the prophet
already knew about this.
Yeah.
And remember, the the Wallahi, this is such
a powerful angle in terms of arguing for
the case of Islam.
He not only knew, because what Hartab did
was he got this letter,
and he sent it with this woman who
was, like, inconspicuous woman.
And she put it between
her braids or in her hair or something
like that, and she went away, and she's
gonna give it to the people of Mecca.
The problem told Ali and
another Sahabi, which I forget who it is
now. Zubair. Zubair.
He told them both to go and get
the letter. He said is listen to this.
The prophet said, it's gonna be with this
woman in this place at this time, and
it's gonna it's not gonna be there. Look
at what happened.
Imagine this. Yeah?
Approached the woman and the and
the, they approached her
and said, give me the letter. She goes,
what is this? I don't have any letter.
He goes,
Ali said, we have not been lied to.
Allah, the prophet has not been lied to,
and we have not been lied to.
Give me the letter.
Now this, by the way, is is on
the same level of
You know, when, when Abu Bakr Sadiq, when
the assault on marriage happened, and and they
were saying, your friend is saying such and
such and such. He said that if he
said it, it's it's telling the truth. Ali,
now you've got a woman here. It's not
visible that she has any letters with her,
but Ali is saying, if the prophet told
us, there's no doubt you have the letter.
He's not saying maybe we've got it wrong,
maybe it's the wrong woman. Like, do you
know what I mean? You see the the
confidence. No. No. You got the letter. You
got the letter. Give me the letter. Give
me the letter. Oh, no. No. Give me
the letter. Otherwise, we're gonna strip you now.
Sorry to say. Which shows you that it's
okay to strip. No. I'm joking.
Only only kidding.
But not yeah.
No. No. You're not kidding because No. No.
But it it shows you that there are
certain situations, dire situations. Now I was gonna
say something completely different. But the idea is
that she said turn around. She
She also had this kind of idea of,
and she took the letter from her hair
or wherever she had it, and she gave
it to them. The letter was there.
And it said what we said that it
said, that how to present such and such
to her family members. But the point is
is that
this is a miraculous aspect, the fact that
he was able to spot
that.
The last person to become Muhajir
in Islam
was Al Abbas, the uncle of the prophet
Muhammad SAW Salam.
And he he was coming
to Al Medina at the same time as
the prophet SAW Salam,
as they were as they were, the the
army was marching. So they kind of saw
them like that.
Abu Sufyan was given protection.
Remember, he was searching for protection from anyone
now, from the boy, from this one, humiliation
ritual, and all that stuff.
But he was given he was eventually given
he was given
protection by at our best.
Our best is new convert,
new Muslim, and his story of conversion is
interesting. The way he converted once again was
due to something that no one could have
known. And the prophet said that you said
such and such to your wife in your
room. And this shows you, by the way,
you'll see a trend. A lot of people
were coming Muslim
in the companions of the prophet due to
information that they couldn't that couldn't have known,
which shows you as we were talking before
the break, the idea of prophecies,
yes, in giving dua is something very powerful.
And only that in the all scriptures that
the bible says, and you will know them
by their prophecies. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a very
good point. Like in Deuteronomy 18 verse 20.
You know, that you will know that one
of the portents is that, you know, that
they will be they will prophesize, and when
they prophesize, they will not be false in
that. So the idea is
when the prophet is giving information that they
couldn't have known because he wasn't there, he
wasn't present,
That's almost as good as a prophecy. A
prophecy is more powerful, by the way.
And note that these people, they only needed
just one.
One one equivalent of prophecy and they became
Muslim.
Nowadays, you give someone 10 or 20
predictions on the future,
and they still would not be accepting it.
Very, very specific predictions of Islam in the
future, by the interest,
about STDs, about the buildings and the infrastructure,
everything. They still say, you know what? There's
more that needs to be said. How many
do you need? You see? So the prophecies,
I think, is a very powerful way
of bringing people to the religion of Islam.
So he becomes Muslim.
And what's really interesting and what's very powerful,
I'll tell you why this is interesting and
important in fact as well, is that the
prophet of Salam, he gave
he he said
that whoever
enters the hamanda
kala,
whoever goes into the house of Abu Sufyan
is going to be safe.
There were sanctuaries,
public sanctuaries that prophet
designated
that if you go into those public sanctuaries,
that you'll be safe. And one of those
places was the Haram,
Al Mekki,
and the other one was
the house of Abu Sufyan,
just to maybe help him regain his prestige
after such humiliation.
That he can now still grant in the
sign kind of indirect way, His people are
kind of protection,
protection, which is given to him by his
seniors, in this case, the Muslim people.
But why this is an important hadith to
memorize or to know is because
one of the attacks of Islam, they say,
you know, when when the prophet sallallahu alaihi
wa sallam came into Mecca, as we'll come
in to see now.
When he came into Mecca,
it's a very famous hadith that says,
Yeah.
Leave because now you are let go.
Now the hadith mentions
that everyone was there,
and, the prophet said that, you know, you're
forgiven to the people. You're forgiven. He said,
Some scholars I've seen have made
of the Hadith. They said the Hadith is
Hassan.
It's also mentioned letter 3 by the same
thing that was mentioned by Yusuf Alaihi Salam
that there's no blame on you today. Yani,
go because you are.
You are let go, Yani.
Some some hadiths have said that this hadith
is weak.
Some some hadiths have said the hadith of
is a weak hadith.
And as such, they say there is no
evidence
it's an interesting line of argumentation. You see,
there's no evidence that when the prophet sasalam
came into Mecca,
that he actually granted protection and safety and
forgiveness to the people.
That's what they say.
They because they say, if you are relying
on the hadith that says,
go because you are,
you know, you are let go and so
on. You are forgiven or then that hadith
is weak. That I'm giving you a
a high level interrogation.
So the response to that interrogation is to
say, well, actually, we have this other Hadith.
Forget if you don't like the Hadith, find
some scholars have made the scene of the
Hadith.
But there's another Hadith which says
that,
Whoever goes into the house of Abi Sufian
is Amin is protected.
Whoever goes into the Kaaba is protected. Whoever
goes to this other place is protected. So
in other words, this other Hadith,
it substitutes to
for those who say, well, there's no evidence
that the prophet
forgave the people when he went to Mecca.
Because let me let me give you
a a situation.
If someone came, Ali, and said to you
in speaker's corner somewhere else, I said, look.
What's the evidence,
that someone I maybe I should have done
this the other way around, right, because now
I'm giving you the answer. But let's just
say, what's the evidence
that when the prophet went into Mecca that
he forgave the people?
I mentioned Yeah. You mentioned this. Yeah. Yeah.
But if you so if you had mentioned,
it could
say, well, if he's high level, he say,
look, you know, he's weak. So but there's
another hadith. You see you see what we're
doing here? Yeah. We're we're covering all bases.
So that's a very important, hadith. You might
think it's trivial, but it's it's it's it's
born. There's another narration that strengthens it. Which
one? It's authentic.
Similar. That's authentic. So this one Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Can I just add Yeah? Point to
what you just said. So the prophet
gave this
mercy
to his enemies. Right? Now if you look
at warfare today and you look at the
experts of warfare like Robert Greene, who's spoken
at West Point, he's taken as the authority.
Law 15 of the, 48 laws of power
is crush your enemies totally.
But here the prophet is not following that
law. So what we find is that even
military strategists today haven't achieved the level at
which the prophet was operating at. Because from
the allies' perspective, when they destroyed Dresden, when
they did these things, there was no idea
of mercy. But Islam actually
has certain inbuilt mechanisms which the western world
does not have, which other military philosophers like
Sun Tzu doesn't have. And what it goes
to show is that you can't take the
best tools in western academia and try to
measure the prophet.
The prophet is the standard by which everything
else is measured. And that's exactly what Montgomery
Watts says. He says that we need to
see,
about the prophet's,
character. If there's something we can incorporate rather
than the opposite way around. So which Muslim
nation or armies has ever gone and massacred
men, women, and children? Like, directly direct command?
Well, Muslim nations, are you committing the argument
of the and stuff like that? Where where
did they go and men, women, children? Okay.
Yeah. No. No. But what I'm saying is
that
I would be careful not to make a
historical case because you can always find some
crazy guys like ISIS, for example. Yeah. Yeah?
So instead of making a historical case, if
you make a religious case, then what we
what we're defending here is the Quran, the
sunnah, rather than the actions of the Muslims
for a 1,400 years. Because it's always gonna
be a group of Muslims Yeah. That have
done some horrible things. Do you know what
I mean? Yeah. So,
should we should we have a quick break
and pray, Maghrib? Let's have a break and
pray, Maghreb. We've done a lot of hard
work. How do we got to come back?
20 minutes after that was there. Okay. So,
what happened was, so they had this The
Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam assembled 10,000 people,
and they were now marching towards
Mecca.
And there's some Hadith talking about what kind
of dress the Prophet was wearing. He's wearing
like a, you know, the head covering
And there's there's some Hadith. That's Sahih Hadith.
There's some other Hadith talking about
how he was postured. Saying that he was
very humbly postured like, you know, he's he
wasn't coming in brazenly. He was coming in
now as a conqueror but he wasn't coming
in brazenly,
which shows you the demeanor of the prophet
Muhammad SAW ASALLEM. That he was
deplete from this grandiosity.
He didn't have a grandiose demeanor.
He wasn't about that.
Which by the way itself is an interesting
thing.
And the prophet told them not to fight
anybody. Now there was one exception to that.
They where the prophet allowed fighting to happen
for
like an hour in the
daytime.
And that was
because, if you think about it psychologically, if
these tribes didn't settle their differences,
don't forget the
had been attacked by the Al Baqir
and they wanted to get retribution. If they
didn't if he didn't allow any of that,
then it could have caused more issues.
Because the thing is, resentment, and anger, and
embitterment,
if if it's not dealt with through an
outlet,
can actually cause more problems. So it's a
very strategic thing,
but it was only it was a limited
thing. Clearly,
what was meant was for there to be
complete peace.
And he came in very humbly, but he
destroyed the idols. This is a very symbolic
thing. It was said that there was 360
idols around the Kaaba. You'll know the story
where he destroyed
them with the stick, you know, he pointed
at them and then they fell on their
faces and broke and so on.
There were some skirmishes that happened and took
place.
Now what in terms of
our remit,
people will come and say, well,
you're saying that the prophet was very forgiving,
and that he forgave everybody and, you know,
he was very magnanimous, very forgiving. But we
have Hadith and I've seen this all plastered
all over the anti Islamic websites.
And in fact, I've heard it in speaker's
corner. And in fact, I've heard it from
many different people that attack Islam.
They say, well,
there were these figures
that
the prophet salam
said that he you have to go kill
them.
So it wasn't an all out,
you know, mercy for everybody.
You're saying
that the prophet is a mercy for mankind.
But there are 9 people, if you add
up all the people in all the Hadith
and so on. It's about 9 people altogether,
which the prophet clearly didn't for forgive.
So we're gonna deal with, each of them,
and I think you should be aware of
this in terms of dawah and handling objections
when it comes to these figures, because
each of them had a story.
We'll start with,
From what I read about him, he wasn't
he wasn't killed. The one who was killed
was Abdullah ibn Aqtal.
This individual
who
was a very malicious man,
very malignant individual.
And now, humiliation style, ran to Kaaba,
and started to hold on
to the
the curtains of the Sitarik.
Sitar or what would you call that? The
cloth of the Kaaba.
And they came to the prophet and said,
why what should we do with him? He's
in the camp. He's
kill him.
And he was killed.
This is one figure that was killed. Why
was he killed?
And this is the question I want to
ask you guys. Why was he Is he
with the poet?
So tell me tell me why he was
killed. Let's start with Abdullah.
Abdul Haman, what do you have about
him?
I don't want anything about him right now.
Okay. Well, I'll give you I think I
think I've. Sorry. Is it? I think it's
been spelled
in both
ways. So this is the claim. The claim
is this is a good thing you brought
us up. The claim is this is examples
of blasphemy laws in action.
The reason why these people were killed is
because they were producing poetry,
and it shows you Islam is a very
intolerant religion.
Because it shows you blasphemy laws in action.
And also is an evidence of the fact
that,
there was no forgiveness as you claim. So
what?
No. But before we get to so what,
let's let's assess this. No. No. No. But
it's it's very clear. Why why am I
using a Yahtzee? I was speaking to 1
guy, and he's like, yeah. But, you know,
if you, you know, I was talking about
capital punishment. Yeah. I was like, yeah. Like,
I said, look. Imagine
you have a tree. It's a mango tree.
I have a tree that's a apple tree.
Yeah. You say to me, you can eat
from my tree. I'm like, okay. I'm like,
well, I don't want you to eat from
my tree. You can't come and see, but
I I don't care that you allow me
to eat from the tree. Just because you
have a,
a world view,
that's you, bro. How does that how is
that a yardstick to, come to objective,
morality? That's fine. I mean, that's a fine
line of argumentation. Like, yeah. That's that's it.
We'll get to that, but we wanna know
more about these characters first because we if
we know their background Yeah. Then we'll have
so what I'm gonna do is this is
the first and probably last time we're gonna
do this,
is I'm gonna give
you 5 minutes with the person next to
you to research
every,
one of those names. I'm gonna give you
which names. I'll give
You No. He's not in the he's not
in the list. Really? He was not in
Fat Hamaker. Not in Fat Hamaker before?
Yeah. Was he killed before? Yeah. But we
know he was killed. He was we we
went through him actually. We're we're talking about
Fat Hamakah in the in the context of
Fat Hamakah.
These are the 9 names that you'll come
across with just the Kharab the Hadith.
Now, if my question is who are they?
Why what was their background?
And why were they killed?
And how can you explain this? So I'm
gonna do is
I'm gonna give you the names.
So I'll give you,
I'm gonna I'm gonna give you
Abdul
Rahman, and you have the Sheikh to help
as well. I can remember.
I'm gonna give you Abdul Jabal.
I
don't know which one. It's a.
Right? But I'm.
And and we'll give you guys
the 2 poet women,
Fartana
and Sara. Yeah? Yeah.
And you do the research. Oh, okay. Who
will I ask to?
So you guys can have,
say If it's the worst of the worst
enemies. Okay. No. No. Ali and Zubair. Yeah?
Who?
Zubair. What you you can have and,
Mekias.
How do you even spell that?
It's there on the slide. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
And you guys have the rest? 789.
Yeah.
No. You the yeah. They they have the
rest. 7, 8, 9. 5 minutes, we'll come
back.
Alright.
Let's have a feedback,
session.
Let's start with Akkirima.
What have you found out?
Have you found out who you've done? Yeah.
Okay. Go ahead and start with him. Okay.
Yeah. So, first, let's frame it correctly. Some
people might perceive, this whole
conversation about poetry and
ridda laws
as,
you know, having, for example, expression of free
speech or poetic expression or freedom of speech,
and that's infringing on that. So if we
frame it correctly,
Abdul ibn Khattal, he was staying in Medina,
and he was being served by a slave.
And what happened was a man from the
Hosea tribe, this particular slave,
didn't wake up in time to serve him
his food. So he got upset, and he
ultimately killed him.
Say that again. So So he was actually
in Medina. And this this man, Abdullah Muqaddal,
and he was Muslim at this time. Mhmm.
He was being served by a slave, and
he was waiting for the slave to wake
up and give misfood. So he's a murderer?
Yeah. So he's a murderer. He killed him.
When he killed the slave, he actually said,
if I go back and, you know, tell
the prophet,
he's going
to obviously give me the
the penal code to Qisas.
So he said, let me go to the
enemy Mhmm. And let me tell them that,
not obviously not telling this story, but let
me tell them that I'm coming as a
poet Mhmm. To help you in the propaganda
against the prophet.
Interestingly enough, the 2 slave girls are also
involved in this, were his slave girls.
So which one? Sala and Fafthani?
Sala and Fafthani. Yeah. So in,
so no conclusive. He's yeah. And he's a
madr basically.
So this has nothing to do with, you
know, expression of free speech. It's got everything
to do with See, this is fantastic. This
is a very interesting
already researched but this this idea of these
guys are not just
expressing quote unquote free speech or whatever it
is or attacking or criticizing.
This is,
people who have usually had criminal records
and had been murderers.
So this is a very good point. So
he's a murderer, he had to be killed.
Yeah. This could be a Qasas.
Yeah. What happened in Fat Hamakah
And what is kesas for those who don't
know what the word means? Yeah. What does
kesas mean?
What do you call it to Retribution.
Yeah. When some Life for life. Someone else
life for life. Beautiful.
Okay. Who else did we have?
Did you have? That was Ali. Right? Yeah.
Go ahead, Ali.
No. No. That that was him. Yeah.
He was a scribe of the prophet.
Mhmm. I think he was the one of
the first apostates.
Yes.
And,
he
would I think he would change what was
written.
So what it was is that I came
across the tafsir of,
Surat al Muminun. Right?
And there's a verse in there that says,
what that,
you know, glory be to Allah,
the best of creators.
And what was proposed was that this guy,
Abdul Lebn Nabi Sarha,
he would hear something from the prophet.
And he would say that, you know, I
used to make my own thing up and
write it down.
And as such, you know,
as such, I didn't have trust anymore that
this was a true prophet because I was
one of the scribes of the prophet. Yes?
And I was writing it down. Now first
and foremost, I looked at some of the
Hadith relating to this,
you know, this exegesis because this was found
in, like, Tabari's,
and Ibn Kathir and so on.
And I found that the Hadith itself was
weak.
Like, the Hadith
the Hadith of this story, this whole story
happening
is a questionable Hadith.
But let's say it's a true Hadith. Let's
play devil's advocate and say it's a true
Hadith for the sake of argument.
If someone is trying to misguide the people
and trying to make them not only he
has apostated, but he's now trying to make
other people apostate. Yeah. What would he say?
He would say something like that. So I
was a scribe.
I used to say something, and he'd make
a story up so that people would think,
okay. It couldn't be the word of, God
because it was, the has words and so
on and so forth. What's interesting is that
he was what happened with him,
he made the prophet made some kind of,
like, a movement,
and he wanted him to be killed. Okay?
However, he was not killed. He was actually
spared.
And then as they inquired with the prophet,
like, what, you know, he said, did you
not understand that this was some kind of
a movement? He didn't give a movement. It
happened.
As Mohammed Affan
was his brother, Hashmi
Yeah. From Rashidi. Yeah. So he went to
the prophet He he took Abdullah ibn Surah,
switched to his brother to the prophet
Mhmm. For the prophet to forgive him. Mhmm.
So the way it's done is through pleading
allegiance.
So
would extend his arms to the and
didn't do anything.
He didn't hint to anything, but he didn't
accept it immediately.
He did it once. He did it twice.
At the 3rd time, the prophet has and
accepted the allegiance.
Meaning that he's a Muslim and all forgiven.
So when he left, the prophet looked
at the sahab and told them,
wasn't there among you? Oh, yeah.
A person that understand. Russian person. Yeah. Russian
person.
So they understood now because the prophet
commanded them to kill Abdullah ibn Abi Sahar.
So he came,
and nobody did anything. And the you should
have understood that when I did an exam
I've had first time, second time,
that,
stand up just and kill him. So they
told the prophet
why did you hint?
Why didn't you create any type of movement?
So the prophet mentioned
Mhmm. That, a prophet should never act in
this fashion or this way. Mhmm. Meaning,
it's a type of backstabbing. Mhmm. They say
specifically blink shock or no? Yeah.
That's not acceptable for for a for a
prophet to do.
So
using That was very important clarification.
What I understood Sheikh was also
was a was became a governor
afterwards. Yeah. After that, he's he's one of
the main guys that opened
Egypt or the first,
I think the first,
yeah, Muslim that conquered during the time of
Muawiyah,
the sea,
when there was an expedition to utilize,
navy forces, let's say. Mhmm. So I'd like
to learn from some of them. The process
process from one of them dead, like
like okay. Can we say that all of
these 9 people, if they accept to Islam,
would they be forgiven?
Yeah. That's between them and Allah. So so
if they did that, they wouldn't be forgiven?
No. Not necessarily.
Okay. That's interesting. Let's see if one of
them became a Muslim secretly, he may be
forgiven, but the ruling should but in case
of Abdullah ibn Abhisar, the
even though he plead allegiance Yeah. And showed
that he wants
to enter in the fold of Islam,
the ruling stands.
But when he it was done once and
twice, then the prophet
exonerated it later on. Okay. So
so if they accept Islam because remember the
hadith of the the the man who came
and said there was a man I was
gonna strike, and he said, I accept Islam.
He said, you're looking his heart. So the
thing is, doesn't Islam hit him becoming a
Muslim
and negate the killing of him or necessary.
Unless it's murder, for example. If it's murder,
then you have to kill him. For example,
let's say if a person,
marks the prophet the prophet
So even if he accepts Islam? So even
if he that's the position of Bintayme, for
example. Even if he accepts Islam, he must
be killed.
But does that mean that,
things are not forgiven between him and Allah
That's the matter between him and So that's
the matter here after. He's he dies as
a Muslim? Yeah. So let's say, in case
of Abdullah Al Khattab, for example, if he
entered Islam.
So
one cannot assume that, it will not be
forgiven between him and Allah but
the ruling stands unless the Ras alaihi
wasallam, agrees. In this dunya in that sense
in a light? It's possible. Yeah. It's possible.
Yeah. So Abdullah, mister Khan, we have a
particular situation that
didn't override the ruling even if he shows
that he wants to enter for Is there
anything else that we know that he done,
Sheikh, that you've come across? The the the
one known thing that he done that he
was a Muslim, he was one
of, of,
So
when he,
the Al Saidhan Islam went back and he
was spreading the propaganda that I, that,
Mohammed
will just write down whatever I decide to
him.
Could could we say that that's infringing on
national security? Because he knows that if people
do believe him, it's gonna be outro. Yeah.
Of course. And there's no way he yeah.
Yeah. That's,
he took such a dangerous role.
When you spread that rumor that,
he's not a truth or prophet, actually,
the Quran is something that I established.
I just recite something and he
he writes it down.
That's a problematic position.
Absolutely. How would you respond to that, Sheikh?
Let's say someone came to you and and
had that position, how would you how would
you respond?
Like you know the orientist they use this
in their websites and stuff like that. This
is say look this is an example of,
the manipulation of wahi
or manipulation of the Quran. What's a good
response that you've come across for this? There
there are a couple of things that one
can respond. For example, nobody essentially believed him.
Mhmm.
Because they knew the Arab at the time
that this is something that even the Prophet
himself cannot bring forth
from himself. Nobody believed that the
the linguistics within the Quran, the beautiful beauty
of it is something that,
nobody took him seriously.
If that was the case, then
And he wasn't the only scribe, so it
was Yeah. It wasn't
that challenge.
Bring to produce something like he would say,
look. I'll I'll produce
it. Because he's remember, he he would come
and then why didn't he produce it? He
he was not claiming to create a Quran,
but he was changing the words.
What I'm saying is
that
the problem is getting it from him, then
the challenge that says produce something like is
against him because it's written by him. Now
he can't produce it. Is do you get
what I'm trying to say? He cannot produce
the own challenges even if the Quran is
from him.
I think, what he was doing, when the
prophet was telling him something, he would root
something in, and then he will ask the
prophet, is it right? He would say, no
problem with those words. That was his claim.
Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Because there are a
couple of relations. One of them, I know,
is the Ahar of Sabah. At the beginning
of Islam, for example, there was not big
of a deal in changing certain endings of
the verses with the names of Allah
to simplify matters.
So the only condition at that time was
don't,
end,
a verse of a Quran that is talking
about torture
with something that is,
talking about Mercy.
Mercy, for example.
Then,
everything was set firmly.
So he
there's a certain narration that shows that at
a certain time he was trying like to
test the prophet.
Changing.
And the prophet would accept it. So he
became he created those assumptions
going beyond Yani.
Mhmm. Isn't the best response to the fact
that he himself said I was lying
afterwards?
Yeah. Not just that, but he he became
one of the propagators of Islam.
And how can they use against us? Yeah.
Yeah. He he believes the Quran is not
the word of let's say the word of
him, according to his claim. Then while later
on, he is a proper Muslim. Yeah. Exactly
that. But also a lot of these hadith,
you'll be surprised, are weak. Mhmm. Yeah. So
that this is an important,
important point. And this one is weak. Yeah?
Which one? The the one you mentioned was.
The one about, the one I said that
was weak, which I cut looks at was
the the famous one they use
in chapter 23 of the Quran where it
says that he said it himself. Because what
it says in that hadith is that, oh,
I said that myself, and then it was
and then it was revealed. So that's weak.
Is there anything else that's weak? The the
claim that he used to
no. That's that's the main one they used,
to be honest. That's that's that's the main
yeah. I came across. I don't think the
hadith is,
is is strong.
Okay.
So now,
Yeah. He he murdered an innocent man, and
he fled to Mecca.
And what happened to him?
That was it. I think he was killed.
Okay. So can you see the the theme
of murder is coming back, isn't it? Yeah.
What about Fartana and Sarah? I think Fartana
was a singer. Mhmm. And, she used to
be a servant or slave for
the guy
Abdulai bin Khattal. Abdulai bin Khattal.
And, she was singing, and she was somehow,
disrespecting the prophet.
And later on, I think she was spared
as well spared as well.
She was One of them was spared for
sure.
Which one, was spared?
I think it was, Sarah was spared. Yeah.
I think but we've read also that Yeah.
For tunnels. Might have been spared, so I
think this is different.
And and I in either case, you couldn't
establish a ruling on this because it was
we don't know, who's spared, who's not spared.
Yeah. I think she was ordered to be
killed, but then later on, she fled somewhere.
She kept hitting
hide over there. Later on, she come and
she, I think, asked for forgiveness.
And according to this, information, the prophet forgave
her. Okay. Forgive her. Yeah. What what what
is the information that you've got?
It mentioned there's
a Fathana 3. Go 3. Okay. It's
Waqedi,
Al Maghazi,
and the second
volume,
which
That's what the Sheikh says. Okay. Thank you.
There are 3 opinions. Yep. Essentially, both were
were killed. Mhmm. 1 both were exonerated,
forgiven.
And 1,
the first was killed. The latter fled,
and then she was killed later on. Mhmm.
So
So we don't know what happened with it.
We don't know We're being honest.
Okay. Yeah. Controversial based on weak hadith.
Is extremely weak. Is it is it Shia?
Is it? No. Well, the Shia are using
quite often,
isn't it?
Okay.
Who else,
who who had who? 789, who has 789?
You guys? I got
Haber Haber
ibn al Aswad. Mhmm.
He was a very,
very pernicious enemy of
the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
And Islam, he
he inflicted a grievous injury on Zaynab, the
daughter of the prophet.
When she was pregnant and she was migrating
from Makkah to Madinah,
he pulled her off of a camel viciously
to the ground and she was badly hurt
and she had miscarriage as a result of
that.
But, he committed many other crimes and he
wanted to
to basically run away to Farsa, Iran.
Mhmm. And,
basically came to the prophet Muhammad
sallallahu alaihi wasallam, and he forgave him.
And, you know,
he was forgiven. So
Okay. And what about Haris ibn, Nuqais?
He was the chief of the Khazraj tribe
Mhmm. And he was killed for treachery
because,
they
him and some other tribes in Medina
conspired
to betray the prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa sallam.
Okay. So they wanted to kill. They wanted
to get physical there. You can see this,
all of these are examples
of that.
Washi, we know the story of everyone here
knows the story of
Washi or the the man who killed Hamza
and then was forgiven by the prophet. And
the prophet said just because of the traumatic
experience of it, he said I don't wanna,
you know see you effectively. But he was
forgiven.
Now,
the controversy surrounding this is relating to freedom
of speech
as well. They say look well, these are
they usually use this as an example especially
the 2 poets girls. They say look, Islam
is a religion that is fundamentally against freedom
of speech
because as you can see you had these
2 women
who were, you know,
killed
as a result of producing, criticizing poetry against
the prophet Muhammad. How would you respond to
that?
Firstly, I would say that they were all
of them, all of these poets were inciting
violence against the prophet salallahu alaihi. Mhmm. And
if you understand,
the environment at that time, there was group
a and group b. They both wanted to
kill each other. Mhmm. And there was there
is no middle person who just wants to
speak their mind. Mhmm.
There's that. And then if that was truly
true, then we would also say, why did
the prophet not take revenge on people that
did not accept Islam or called him a
false prophet
or the the Quraish that said we don't
accept your prophet. That's also freedom of speech.
But what did we discover about the 2
girls anyway?
They were forgiven.
Yeah. Or was or at least we can
say it's not established that what? Yeah. That
they were killed. Yeah. That's the minimum we
can say. It's not actually even established that
they were killed. And all the narrations that
talk about these things are conflicting
and inauthentic.
So that's
a secondary point. But let me push you
a little bit on the point because we
had the conversation before the class about freedom
of speech and stuff like that. Now freedom
of speech has become
a holy cow, really has become one of
the, gods of the west.
Freedom of speech, especially now the right wing
we're seeing a lot of people speak about
freedom of speech.
How would you, Abdurrahman, if I were to
say to you, listen,
let's argue against freedom of speech Right. As
a concept.
Yeah. Let's pretend now I am because I
think we're being a little bit defensive here.
I think Ali's already itching. He wants to
say so what? He wants to start smacking.
He wants to punch somebody. He say, hey.
Blasphemy laws. I'll take him and tell me
his opinion. Proud of it. And we're proud
of him. I wanna stone him and take
the popcorn as well.
He because he wants to say that. And
and certainly, there is an opinion in Islam,
which does talk about blasphemy laws. Obviously,
the Sheikh has already mentioned, talks about that
very clearly. He says that someone who mocks
and blasphemes the prophet, whether a Muslim or
none, should be killed, and that's the opinion.
There was another opinion, of course, as well.
So that's in Pakistan as well? Yeah. It's
a big thing in Pakistan. There is another
opinion as well, which is the opinion of
the Hanafis
who say that actually that's not the case.
And that was the opinion that had been
that had been was arguing against, in fact.
Because otherwise, if it was established, then there'd
be no reason for him to produce an
entire book. Also, I'm fine
with.
Yeah. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that
there are 2 opinions.
And both of them so if it was
if it was fully established
that the opinion of blasphemy is x, y,
and zed, then there wouldn't be 2 opinions
on the matter. What's the opinion of the
Hanafist?
The the opinion of the Hanafis is that
if a Christian or a Jew
is to mock the prophet Muhammad or to
mock Islam.
No. Mocker. I'm sorry about blasphemy laws that
they would not be killed. Okay. And they
they have some interesting, you know, responses that
I say, for example,
someone came to the prophet and said to
him, he's the Muslim man. He is this
is praiseworthy. He didn't he didn't for example,
they use this is a very famous thing
that they use where the the Jews came
to the prophet and said, that, you know,
death be upon you, which considers to be
mockery and an insult to the point where
Aisha
attacked them very fiercely, but then the prophet,
you know, retorted. He said, you know,
That the, you know,
that gentleness
wasn't in something except that it made it
more beautiful, and the removal of gentleness from
something made it more ugly.
So these are examples of when the Hassan
was attacked,
you know, face to face
on on the on that level. And he
didn't respond in he didn't respond in a
manner that was
belligerent, or he didn't order even for the
death of those people. So there are 2
opinions in Islam. Let them hang. It's not
our business to talk to to say this
one is the right one, this one is
the wrong one. What we can say is,
that when it comes to the opinion that
says
that, you know, it's you you can kill
or you should kill,
that whether one wants to take that opinion
or not,
The more important thing is about the psychological
reactions of the prophet Muhammad. Well, it's a
criticism.
Because what we don't see is that he's
reacting in a way
which is agitated. For example, I gave you
the example of the the Jewish tribes that
came to him and said, I gave
you the example of the person with them.
There's another example,
which is,
when
when the woman was shouting and saying, you
know, Mohammed is I think it's the same.
He said, Mohammed is not, this is not
here. This is not me. The way he
dealt with it is a very
classy
way. He didn't get agitated like a narcissist,
quote unquote, would. Right? Because that's a a
a broader psychological case that they try and
make against the prophet. That he was a
man that was so obsessed with his character
and so on, but we're not seeing that.
So they bring these now, these examples that
we've just given. And we've just seen 80%
of them, if if if not more,
have been at, either attached to murder
or committed
a kind of murder or physical assault. So
that's the first point.
But before I get to Ali, I just
want to ask Abdulhaman.
How would you argue against the person now
who's a free speech absolutist who believes in
a holy holy cow, this kind of thing?
What would you say to them? Yeah. So
I've had these conversations before with,
people who claim to be absolutists in freedom
of speech, and I don't believe there is
such a thing.
And what I do is generally give them
certain thought experiments.
So let's say, for example, you know, nowadays
we're seeing in the right wing space. We're
seeing a lot of people,
even even, quite frankly, we're seeing, these new
age red pill people.
They're talking about we're seeing on Twitter spaces
and so on. They're talking about
freedom of speech. Let's pretend me and you
are having a conversation. So what would you
say to them?
I would say, if something is done through
consent and does not harm anyone, do you
feel like that should be allowed? Yes. Okay.
So, if someone were to use, for example,
Midjourney AI Why is that? Tell us what
that is. Midjourney is a thing where you
put a prompt in and you can create
any image you want.
If someone were to create a prompt whereby
they would be showing child *,
but those children are not real children. They
don't exist on this on this earth, but
they look exactly like like children, like your
daughter, like my daughter, for example. Would that
be something that you would be fine with?
Oh, so that's a fantastic one, isn't it?
So it's a really good response, sir. Because
it's not harming anyone. Oh, that's that's excellent.
Yeah. Because no one knows about it, and
you don't need to do consent because the
So what's the conclusion of this, excellent The
conclusion is that no one believes in absolute
freedom speech Uh-huh. Or freedom of anything that
doesn't include And if they do believe it,
then what will it cause?
Yeah. Absurdities like this. No. Just I wouldn't
call it absurdities. It would cause what?
Chaos would it would cause negative consequences. Yeah.
It would. Exactly. Not only that. That's very
good, very good argument. Would you agree? Yeah.
That's brilliant. Excellent argument.
It it goes against human psychology
to expect that. Yeah. And to expect that
you're gonna say something or there's gonna be
no consequences. Like, is that what's that movie
when it goes to the black neighborhood?
Oh, Die Hard Yeah. With the vengeance. Die
Hard. I mean, it's it's it's crazy to
expect that, okay, you're freedom is there's free
there's no freedom of consequence, mama. There's gonna
be consequences. There's no freedom of I had
this conversation as well recently. That's a very
good point. Freedom of speech, freedom of consequences.
That's excellent. I like that, terminology as well.
Because I had a conversation with,
with some of the guys and I was
saying to them look, what is freedom of
speech? It's If you put it on the
political spectrum, where does it land?
It lands more left. If you think about
it, it's closer to anarchy. Yeah. Because what
you're saying is effectively,
let's get the government out of
the censorship of our speech. That's what you're
saying.
Isn't that what you're saying? So if you
take it further, then let's say, okay. Let's
get them out of protection. Let's get them
out of what I see. Move towards an
an arbitral position.
No. Forget that for a second. What I'm
saying is that if if we're going in
that direction as well, right?
I would consider the position
of those, let's just call them radicals for
now, that we disagree with, the people that,
you know, Charlie Hebdo and that we disagree
with. I have to make sure all the
caveats are there. But it's more of an
anarchical position. Think about it. Because what they're
saying is this, you have freedom of speech.
Yes?
You have freedom of speech to say and
mock whoever you like. But we also have
freedom
to go against the laws.
And we don't care about the laws. We
don't even believe in the social contract,
contract.
So if you think about freedom of speech
as going in a trajectory,
whereby
it's basically saying we don't want the government
to get involved in these things.
So what the
radical position is, let's say the terrorist position,
the terrorists will say,
well, I don't care if the government says
it's illegal for me to kill a man.
I'm gonna do it anyway.
So he's adopting a more freedom centered approach.
It's a more anarchical position. It's more radical
than the free speech absolute position. So if
you push the envelope with the free speech
absolute position, you become more like that anyway.
So he so in that world,
where you can say whatever you want because
you don't want the government to get involved
and censor what you're saying,
then
the the the respondent may say, well,
I don't care. I don't want the government
to get involved in the consequences. I'm gonna
exact upon you if you try and hurt
me with your words, which is I'm gonna
hurt you with my
body, which is the terrorist position
for the sake of argument. So what I'm
saying is the terrorist position
is not out of touch with
a free speech and our core position. In
fact, it's a radical
and our core position. The terrorist position is
in line
with far left.
That's why you'll find a lot of these
groups say act like that, like Antifa and
stuff like that. They probably understand it like
that. So, you know, who cares about the
government, whatever. We'll do what we want anyway.
What I'm saying is, the blasphemy law, those
who are, you know, if they want to
take the terrorist position on the matter in
the Western context,
then they have an argument to make as
well, if they wanted to, which is similar
to the argument that you would initially make,
which is, let's get the government out of
censoring our speech. Let's say, well, let's get
the government out of censoring our actions,
which even if it does harm because I
for me, I don't care about harming or
not harming, the first
would say. Do you want to add something?
Yep. Sure.
When did Rashi accept Islam?
Rashi? Yeah.
I'm not sure exactly. If if I can,
I'm not sure. Know who's do you know
who's at the conquest of Mecca before Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It was around this. After he
killed,
Hamza
and he returned, he accepted Islam, I think.
I mean, I don't know exactly what I
haven't come across exactly when he I think
it's around this time, to be honest.
Yeah. Yeah. With Amaka? Mhmm.
It? Because it's it's it's quite profound because
it can it's a good argument to make
where if it was personal, if there was
anyone that could have been on that list
would have been Washi. Beautiful.
So Beautiful. And if it was if it
was personal, he would have said Washi is
the Why why for those who don't know
why? Because the thing is, yeah, it shows
that it's not a matter of people violating
his rights rather Allah's rights. Because if it
was Warshi, he we even know from narrations
that he said, I don't I don't can
you imagine? He said, I don't want to
see him. That's how much he was hurt
what happened to, his uncle, Hamza. He killed
his uncle. Exactly. So if he was alive
at this time, this is profound because it
shows it was never personal in the sense
that it was Allah's That's really really Allah's
legislation that's been But she is always an
excellent language. Exactly. But we need to find
out if this if he accepted Islam. Because
if he accepted Islam before then, it doesn't
count. Because how is he gonna put him
in the name when he's a Muslim? So
it all the term it determines when Waqi
accepted Islam. If we find that out, then
it's a powerful argument to use against them.
Well, yeah. Absolutely. He converted to Islam, and
then he was I think you can use
the argument. I think it's very good. Because
if it's after the before the conquest, then
it's not gonna apply, is it? Because why
would you have him on the list on
the 9 when he accepted Islam before?
Did you get it? No. He he
accepted Islam in Fat Hamakkah. Okay.
Brilliant. So if they go if we if
we have the information, that is profound because
it shows it's not personal. Yeah. Okay. So,
another thing which is highly sorry. Sorry. Can
I just mention, is this some a similar
situation
to when,
Azat Ali was was gonna kill someone and
raised his sword and the guy spat in
his face? Yeah. I I actually looked up
that Hadith. I thought I wasn't always a
week. I think the hadith is weak. Was
isn't did they attribute it to handak? But
no. No. But I might be wrong because
I don't wanna
but I looked I tried to find that
hadith, but I couldn't I could be wrong.
But he didn't kill him because it would
have been
something personal for him. Yeah. I need to
double check the authenticity of the hadith because
someone mentioned it to me before. I tried
to look it up and but, yeah, it
would be the same thing. It would be
the same. The hadith is there, but I
don't know if it's authentic or not. We've
got a couple of slides, guys. Yeah. She
converted to Islam after the Fatiha Mecca. Yeah.
After? Yes.
After? Yeah? Yeah. There you go.
Yeah. Yeah. There you have
it. So okay. Here we go. Next one,
there's this very interesting thing. First of all,
Bilal,
obviously,
a black slave
who was being tortured
and stuff.
Now, he was symbolically given the right to
go and give the Adan from the top
of the Kaaba.
Now that was such a powerful thing. I
I even came across some Hadith that said
some of the Arabs were very upset that
a black man was doing that. But it's
this is one of the evidences
that Islam is a religion that's
color
blind. It's it's only the only ancient world
religion, which really doesn't care about where you're
from, and that's why it's been so successful
in terms of bringing people from all kinds,
corners of the earth.
So it's a very beautiful thing. Another thing
which to before I end,
you know this had I don't know if
you come across this
this interaction with, Hind.
You know Hind, and when she became Muslim,
and she was shouting as,
and this whole story. I'm not sure if
you came across the story. Well, basically, she
was there and that she was asked to
pledge allegiance with the woman.
And then she's at the beginning she said,
like, you didn't ask the men to do
it like this, and she was shouting at
the prophet and she was, you know, all
these kind of things and she was saying
because, you know, in Surah Al Baum Ta'an,
it says that, you know, part of the
alleged, pledge of allegiance is that
that you're not meant to steal or you're
not meant to do
And they don't kill your children, and so
on and so forth.
And then apparently, she turned around and she
was like,
so she was very loud, outspoken woman that,
you know, she was doing all those kind
of things.
I came across the Hadith because this is
a very blatant part of the, narrative. And
in fact, I've seen some feminists make a
point out of this and say, well, this
shows you woman had the right and the
prophet didn't engage her, and he didn't he
let her speak and so on. And look,
it shows you this and that. Actually, the
hadith are weak.
No. The whole thing is weak. No. But
it's important for me to because someone will
say, well, brother. The The whole thing, you're
gonna keep saying is this is weak and
that is weak. I'm saying, but nowadays, people
are using these aspects from the to
justify feminism. So at that point, I'm gonna
say to you, sorry to say, this thing
is weak. Just like we did in the
last session, we were talking about apparently being
shouted up by his wife. And he was
standing there. His wife was telling him this
and that and, whatever. And then the man
left because he said, I have you got
a bigger problem than I do. And we
said that hadith was weak.
So if the moment I start seeing we
start seeing as a community, people start using
this stuff to try and manipulate their husbands
and or to try and, deprecate from the
role of the man or something like that,
or the opposite.
To try and create too much of a
rigid environment for a woman or whatever it
may be, then we have to say, sorry
to say, your is the. Just because you're
reading or listening to it from a it
doesn't mean it's correct.
So the if The moment we start seeing
people exploit the leniency that
have had
with, narrations because it's not meant to be,
highly authentic, then we should respond.
And this is the last thing would I
end with
and very very powerful.
And it shows you a lie, the idea
of we've spoken about this in the last
couple of sessions. The idea of loyalty in
Islam.
Because what happened was that when the prophet
came
back to,
Makkah,
the Ansar started to see that his relationship
with the people, he was very forgiving,
and they felt something.
They said And they even started mentioning it.
He said, like, you know, you're being very
nice with them and
clearly
mercy or compassion has overtook you because they
felt it's like you could say they felt
jealousy. You could say they felt because look
at this, They love the prophet and this
is a good evidence they love the prophet
Muhammad SAWSALAM.
So why are you like that with them?
It's like, what about us? We were there
in the beginning.
So he came and he confronted them.
He says, is it true that you guys
are saying such and such to the Ansar?
Remember, the Ansar are the ones who who
were with him with all the Hazawat and
all the fighting and all the battle.
Later on. This happened actually after.
Really? Because I After.
Because men this is mentioned in the same
chapter here, Sheikhadullah. Strange. Yeah. Because the because
the prophet when,
the bounty he Yeah. He was given it
and then Oh, really? They found, an issue
with that. They I found this I picked
this up from the book of, Ibrahim Al
Ali. Yep. Usually,
it's not mentioned after Fatima. It's mentioned after
Hazrat Harin.
Really? About her name and. Yeah. Yeah. But
I'll mention I'll mention it anyway. I'll mention
it anyway. I mean, he mentions it in
his book, in this chapter of Fatimaqa. So
that's the only reason. So so basically what
happened was this is that, you know, they
came and so on and they said, you
know, you're being very nice with them and
And then there was a phrase that he
mentioned, which is a very powerful
phrase, and it shows you the the the
the importance of loyalty in Islam.
He says,
It's a very He says, basically, just a
loose translation.
But we live together and we die together.
That's a very Imagine the prophet
saying that to you. So listen, we
they call it what ride or die.
So, we are together, we're one thing now,
that's it. We live together,
and we die together.
And that shows you the importance of the
loyalty that that there's such an in connection
between
those people, and it's the most beautiful thing
that you can have, maybe in the dunya,
really.
Having a a true brotherhood, and this is
something Islam
encourages loyalty,
is something Islam is all about. With that,
we conclude this session.