Mohammad Elshinawy – Hacks To Overcome An Atheists Defensiveness

Mohammad Elshinawy
AI: Summary ©
The importance of avoiding confusion and mistakes is emphasized in setting up mechanisms for people to experience faith. The speakers stress the need for acceptance and clarification in setting up mechanisms for people to experience faith, avoiding double-standing and just talking about it. The speakers also emphasize the importance of experience and acceptance in setting up mechanisms for people to experience faith, and the use of "fitra" in the context of asserting there is no God. The speakers also discuss the negative consequences of simplistic thinking and suggest removing God from skepticism is the way to do things.
AI: Transcript ©
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Be upon his messenger, Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam

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and his family and his companions and all

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those who tread his path. May Allah

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grant us and you alike upon his path.

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Say amen.

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And a death while adhering to his guidance,

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and a reunion around him, and a drink

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from his blessed hand on the day of

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judgment, the day of thirst, Allahumma'amin.

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And an opportunity to see the face of

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his Lord and ours, Allahumma'amim

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So I was asked to speak about discussions

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with an atheist.

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And

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while the majority

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of this,

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session is preparatory

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knowledge,

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for the

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exercises,

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outside for the dawah that you will be

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partaking in, Insha'Allah, in Inner Harbor,

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Baltimore.

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I wish to actually step back. There will

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still, Insha'Allah, be some value here towards that,

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but actually speak a little bit about

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speaking 1 on 1 with someone that may

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be having

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atheistic

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inclinations,

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the spectrum entirely,

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in your personal lives. For the past 20

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years, and I'm not an anomaly,

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I've sort of been quite involved,

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with people that come to me wondering how

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to speak this to this relative or this

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colleague that has become an atheist or is

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considering atheism or otherwise.

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And, of course,

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dawah is a duty, and there's no reason

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why we should pick and choose between dawah

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to Muslims or non Muslims.

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But if there ever was, a

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lack of resources, time or otherwise,

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That protecting,

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those that are within the fold, take priority

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over seeking and delivering the message to those

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outside the fold.

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Again, we create false dichotomies all the time

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and do eitheror, and I I don't see

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any justification for that.

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But just for the sake of catering to

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this need,

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what happens when someone that is Muslim,

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comes to you and they're

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sort of,

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flirting with atheism? Well, 1st and foremost, let

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me say upfront.

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That can be any one of us and

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so we need to sort of preempt these

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things.

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Prevention is better than a cure. Always has.

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I've dealt

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with countless cases

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and I would like to think of myself

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as somewhat

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more trained than the average layman on this

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subject. But still, what does 20 years do?

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Ask anyone in my space.

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Our retention levels, the people you're actually able

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to walk away from that very dark cliff,

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right, are actually very few. Because once they're

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actually at that point, it's very hard, at

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least at that moment, to walk them back.

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For reasons we will cover. But in general,

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prevention is better than a cure. That prevention

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is through solidifying faith. Faith is solidified through

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association. You wanna make sure they want to

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associate with you and with your community and

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with your deen. You know, the socio emotional

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element is huge. That's a huge part and

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the most common reason why people subscribe to

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faiths, whatever they may be, association.

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The other one is persuasion. Muslims need to

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immunize themselves and their fellow Muslims

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by never thinking it's a given that we

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have already very good reasons to be persuaded

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of the truth of Islam,

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that it's not blind faith.

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When the, you know, the

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prevailing

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paradigms, the widespread sentiment is all religions are

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man made, all religions are blind faith, We

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don't live in some insulated ghettoized community. We're

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a part of this world. It's in the

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ether. And so we need the intellectual component

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and the spiritual component, if you're a naturalist

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and not just an evidentialist, but persuasion.

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And then 3rd is experience. That's the 3rd

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channel of faith and solidifying faith. And we

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cannot do that for people, but we have

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to set up the mechanisms for people to

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experience faith on their own, to try to

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encourage them along,

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talk to them by day and pray for

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them by night. Prevention is better than a

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cure.

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That was point number 1. Point number 2,

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hijab forgive me. We'll talk about it in

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the parking lot, alright?

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Don't debate with web.

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No, hear me out. Of course, there's a

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utility debate, to debate.

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But so many times,

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we have these huge fumbles that didn't have

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to go south as far as they did

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or as fast as they did because we're

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making certain assumptions

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and we dive into the debate

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with these presuppositions

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about how things are gonna get better. So,

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for instance, as I told you, association is

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the number one reason for people to

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get solidified in faith. It's also the number

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one reason for people to have fallouts. Right?

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Many people may not even realize it about

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themselves. It's actually unconscious.

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But the emotionality

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is playing

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a far greater role than the rationality, even

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if they don't notice. So just take it

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easy and don't take the deep dive. Don't

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jump into the rabbit hole and don't just

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talk to them. Because that may not be

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the issue to begin with.

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There could just be a shubha, just some

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confusion needs clarification,

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or there could be underlying

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emotional issues and there's so many of them

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that cause them, you know, to want to

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leave.

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And

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that takes a completely different remedy. Right?

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But in essence, always keep that in mind.

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Is this person, you know, struggling with, you

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know,

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wanting to be right? They really want, like,

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an intellectually

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stimulating and satisfying answer for Islam? Or are

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they struggling for wanting to be liked, right?

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They feel like a misfit in society or

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in the community or inferiority complex of sorts

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or otherwise. That's actually the most common reason.

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The data does suggest this. So keep that

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in mind. Don't just jump in. Don't just,

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you know, interlock with them. Check for the

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root cause.

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That's very important.

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And then,

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if it is an intellectual discussion, we're going

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to have a dialogue here.

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That dialogue

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needs to be had by the right people.

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So once again, don't just debate with them.

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Because unless you're trained, unless you're a specialist,

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these people can walk out of the conversation

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nodding their head or lifting their nose in

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the sky and say, See? Told you there's

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no answer. Right? So you can actually

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be a bad lawyer for a very good

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case and wind up confirming their biases for

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them against God and Islam.

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And so don't underestimate this. Be very careful

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about just jumping in. Also because, you know,

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as debates continue,

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people get more and more defensive. It is

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just natural. Like, the ego lurks, and I

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the word is operative. Lurks, hides in all

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of these discussions.

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You know, like, really, think about it. When

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was the last time, you know, the stakes

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on the debate went high, online or in

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person? And then from that point, people say,

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You know what?

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You're right. I'm wrong. I step down from

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my position and I adopt your position. You

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have superior intelligence. Have you ever seen that

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in, like, social media comment section before? Because

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I haven't. Right? It doesn't work like this.

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Because they feel cornered now that they've asserted

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a position and you've asserted the opposite and

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everyone's watching and so on. That's why

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And I just love this eye. I love

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this eye. Allah Azzawajal

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says, Uddhuro idasabeeli

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rabbika bil hikma. Right? You know, this is

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a very famous verse.

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Invite. You're not just declaring and shouting

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down the truth down their throats. No one's

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going to accept that. Humans are like seatbelts.

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They don't come with snatching. Right?

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Invite.

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Make it appealing. Invite to the way of

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your Lord with shikmah, with wisdom, in calculated

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ways, right? Then he says, pay attention,

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walma'u'ivatil

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hasana

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and with beautiful preaching or good preaching

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wajjadilhum

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see, there's room for debate And debate with

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them, bin letsihi

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ahsan,

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in a way that's most beautiful or best.

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Right?

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Think about those 3 layers of a conversation.

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You see, when Allah said invite them,

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he said wisdom. He didn't say beautiful wisdom

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because wisdom, by definition, is beautiful. Right? You're

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calculated. You're figuring out

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this most strategic way to work around their

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defense mechanisms

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to not trigger their ego, right?

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And so, it would be ineloquent of the

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Quran to say beautiful wisdom when wisdom, by

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definition, is beautiful, right? Crafting your narrative is

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an act of ribadah, beautifying your proposal. So

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hikmah. But then he says, walma'u'idhatil

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hasana

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and

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beautiful preaching or good preaching. Because, you know,

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the word maw'iva, to appreciate this verse and

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the layers here, maw'iva is not like ta'lim,

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it's not like nasiha. Nasiha is like when

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you tell someone, By the way, you have

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to cover your entire foot with water in

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order for the wudu to be valid, right?

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That's naseeha,

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just a reminder. It's just stating a point

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of information.

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Maw'iva

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is a heartfelt reminder, Like when the Prophet

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said, Woe to the ankles from the fire,

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meaning, Hey, stop thinking this is a small

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thing. Stop underestimating

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it. So when he mentions

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the downside of overlooking getting the water there,

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that's more Iva.

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Why is that important?

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When you start getting emotional,

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right? It could have an equal and opposite

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reaction. You get it?

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And so, Allah then qualifies beautiful preaching. Because

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once emotions get involved in preaching, you're going

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to have reciprocated emotion, so you gotta now

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be make sure you're preaching in a beautiful

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way. But then he says, wajaydilhum

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and debate with them, meaning and if you're

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gonna debate with them, then debate with them

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not in a way that's beautiful,

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debate with them, bin letihi ahsan, right? The

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superlative they call it. In the most beautiful

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way, because when the conversation gets heartfelt

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and then it escalates to a debate, then

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the stakes are higher. The defense mechanism is

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even higher.

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The lack of receptiveness is even more present.

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So you need to be even more crafty

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and even more beautiful and even more gentle

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to work around it. Does this make sense?

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And so it's called read the room. It's

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called emotional intelligence. We have all these terms

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for it. The Quran says,

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Know where you stand at the different phases

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of a conversation.

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So that all this so that you can

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work around it

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and you don't push them away instead of

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inviting them because the ayah begins by saying

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invite.

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You know, when the Prophet Alaihi Wasallam

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said, Latakunu a'unan shaytan You Ala Akhikum

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Don't be an assistant

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to Shaytan against your brother.

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You know how you can help Shaytan against

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your brother? One of 2 ways. One of

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them is watering down the truth, right? So

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you're not making it clear what you're calling

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me to, right? The beauty of Islam is

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irreconizable.

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But the other way is

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that you stuff the truth down his throat.

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No, you need it in front of his

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eyes. You need to, like, wave it at

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his heart. You don't want to just stuff

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it down their throat. That's the other way

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you can help Shaytan against your brother. May

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Allah protect us from that. Say, I mean.

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And so the idea is hikmah is about,

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How do I heal this particular person? How

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do I win them over? How do I

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make a point in the most productive way?

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And many a times that is by don't

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debate them. Refer them to experts who can

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have this conversation with them. One of the

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things I love to do is to refer

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them to written resources

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because you can't really talk back to an

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article. You can't talk back to a book.

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So it's a strategic way to keep it

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a one way conversation.

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And there's less stakes. He's not saying as

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much so he won't have to swallow as

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much of his ego if he wants to

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concede to some of my points or the

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points that I'm proposing, right? We're inviting to

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Allah here. Always remember that. You're not inviting

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to yourself.

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Be very humble. Allah could turn the light

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on in their heart, turn the light off

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in your heart, right?

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Stay close to Allah. Stay humble. Ask him

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to open this person's heart, make you an

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instrument of guidance,

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keep you guided, all of that.

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So

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and just focus on moistening their hearts. You

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know, I'll tell you,

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some of even like the the staunch

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opposition

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to the prophet, alayhis salatu wassalam,

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they were very slack in, like, being forced

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to listen to him. You guys know the

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famous hadith in Ruz' ibn Rabi'ah?

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Ruz' ibn Rabi'ah became Muslim, by the way.

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R'us' ibn Rabi'ah was one of his staunchest

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enemies, alayhi salatu wa salaam. He was the

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one that came to him and said, Muhammad,

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listen, man. And like,

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let me,

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adapt the translation.

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His words, if you read them between the

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lines, he's basically telling the prophet Muhammad Sallallahu

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Alaihi Wasallam,

00:12:44 --> 00:12:46

Cut the nonsense, cut the crap, right? Like

00:12:46 --> 00:12:48

he's telling me, I'm calling you to God,

00:12:48 --> 00:12:50

not me. I'm not asking you for wealth

00:12:50 --> 00:12:52

and so on. Imagine all these ayaats, Then

00:12:52 --> 00:12:53

the prophet Alaihi Wasallam

00:12:53 --> 00:12:56

is approached by utzba and everybody's like, Listen,

00:12:56 --> 00:12:57

what do you want? You want money? You

00:12:57 --> 00:12:58

do want money. We're just not offering enough

00:12:58 --> 00:12:59

money. Is that what it is? You want

00:12:59 --> 00:13:00

money? We'll gather money for you. You want

00:13:00 --> 00:13:02

women? Give you all the women. You you

00:13:02 --> 00:13:04

are you sick? We'll spend all we'll go

00:13:04 --> 00:13:05

broke. We'll get you a doctor. If you're

00:13:05 --> 00:13:08

bananas, if you're nuts, you're we'll help you.

00:13:08 --> 00:13:11

Just so he's totally, you know, insulting the

00:13:11 --> 00:13:13

Prophet alaihi wa sallam, and this could be

00:13:13 --> 00:13:14

in front of like a huge crowd. And

00:13:14 --> 00:13:17

what does the Prophet alaihi wa sallam do?

00:13:18 --> 00:13:18

He just

00:13:19 --> 00:13:19

listens.

00:13:20 --> 00:13:22

He listens. He indulges him.

00:13:23 --> 00:13:24

And then after he finishes,

00:13:26 --> 00:13:29

he says to him, And tay to Abu

00:13:29 --> 00:13:29

Walid,

00:13:30 --> 00:13:33

are you done yet, O Abu Walid?

00:13:33 --> 00:13:35

You know, Abu Walid, the father of Al

00:13:35 --> 00:13:36

Walid?

00:13:38 --> 00:13:40

When the Arabs wanna respect someone, they call

00:13:40 --> 00:13:42

him father of so and so, right?

00:13:43 --> 00:13:44

He said he waits,

00:13:44 --> 00:13:46

and then he asks him, Are you finished?

00:13:46 --> 00:13:49

And he calls him by an honorific, father

00:13:49 --> 00:13:50

of al Walid.

00:13:51 --> 00:13:52

And so the guy's forced to say, Yeah,

00:13:52 --> 00:13:54

I guess I'm done.

00:13:54 --> 00:13:56

You know, like, essentially, obviously this is a

00:13:56 --> 00:14:00

2022 translation, right? But he says, Yeah, kala

00:14:00 --> 00:14:02

fasma' even. Now hear me out.

00:14:03 --> 00:14:06

And he totally disregards all of the personal

00:14:06 --> 00:14:08

stuff, and he begins to recite to him

00:14:08 --> 00:14:09

Surat Fusilat.

00:14:09 --> 00:14:11

And about a page and a half into

00:14:11 --> 00:14:12

Surat Fusilat,

00:14:12 --> 00:14:14

Abu Walid still hasn't cut him off,

00:14:15 --> 00:14:15

right?

00:14:16 --> 00:14:18

And not just now is the world hearing

00:14:18 --> 00:14:18

Quran,

00:14:18 --> 00:14:20

and not just now has he won the

00:14:20 --> 00:14:23

moral battle, SallAllahu Alaihi Wasallam, and won the

00:14:23 --> 00:14:26

negotiation, if you will, the intellectual negotiation,

00:14:26 --> 00:14:27

Utsbab

00:14:27 --> 00:14:29

Nurabi'a has no choice

00:14:29 --> 00:14:31

but to get up and grab the prophet's

00:14:31 --> 00:14:33

mouth and say, Please stop.

00:14:34 --> 00:14:37

Fearing he he felt it himself. This, like,

00:14:37 --> 00:14:39

he this is an admissal of defeat. When

00:14:39 --> 00:14:41

you're recycling verses of the punishment of the

00:14:41 --> 00:14:44

of the previous nations for their rebel rebellion,

00:14:44 --> 00:14:46

and your guy who's saying you're you're talking

00:14:46 --> 00:14:49

nonsense has to tell you, please stop. And

00:14:49 --> 00:14:51

he literally holds the Prophet's mouth, Stop.

00:14:53 --> 00:14:56

This is an art, right? May Allah Azzawajal

00:14:56 --> 00:14:58

make us artists of Dawah Sayamil.

00:14:59 --> 00:15:00

And so,

00:15:03 --> 00:15:05

moistening their hearts through your manners,

00:15:05 --> 00:15:07

insaidu Radu Rabiyar is a big part of

00:15:07 --> 00:15:10

this. Also, moistening their hearts trying to revive

00:15:10 --> 00:15:12

their spirituality. Like, some person may think if

00:15:12 --> 00:15:14

a person is not Muslim or doesn't believe

00:15:14 --> 00:15:16

in God, there's no point in me trying

00:15:16 --> 00:15:16

to, like,

00:15:17 --> 00:15:19

tenderize their heart in a spiritual way because

00:15:19 --> 00:15:21

they don't believe a spirit exists. But that

00:15:21 --> 00:15:23

doesn't matter. You know that a spirit exists.

00:15:24 --> 00:15:26

And Allah revealed to you a little secret

00:15:26 --> 00:15:28

called a fitra. There's a fitra. They have

00:15:28 --> 00:15:30

a fitra. You invoke their fitra.

00:15:31 --> 00:15:33

You know, when the man came to the

00:15:33 --> 00:15:35

prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam and he said

00:15:35 --> 00:15:37

to him, I find hardness in my heart.

00:15:37 --> 00:15:39

What do I do? He said, Zulil Makbarah

00:15:40 --> 00:15:41

wemsa halaratsil

00:15:41 --> 00:15:43

yateem. Visit the graveyard

00:15:43 --> 00:15:45

and caress the head of the orphan.

00:15:46 --> 00:15:48

Go see the dead. Go see the vulnerable.

00:15:48 --> 00:15:50

Go see how unpredictable life is. You think

00:15:50 --> 00:15:52

this will not revive questions

00:15:53 --> 00:15:54

and make inquisitive

00:15:55 --> 00:15:57

and less defensive. It will not sober up

00:15:57 --> 00:15:59

so many people that just don't wanna think

00:15:59 --> 00:16:00

about God right now.

00:16:03 --> 00:16:06

This awakens their spirit. See, the real issue

00:16:06 --> 00:16:08

nowadays, by the way, like why is atheism

00:16:08 --> 00:16:10

out and about? Why is it abound?

00:16:10 --> 00:16:11

It's because of science, right?

00:16:12 --> 00:16:14

I actually would say yes, just to meet

00:16:14 --> 00:16:16

the the the my interlocutor if I'm debating

00:16:16 --> 00:16:19

earlier. I'd say, Yeah, I agree. Science does,

00:16:19 --> 00:16:22

you know, cause atheism. The advancement in science

00:16:22 --> 00:16:24

in our age caused the advancement of atheism.

00:16:24 --> 00:16:25

It's pretty clear. Science caused atheism.

00:16:26 --> 00:16:28

But it's not like science has disproven God.

00:16:28 --> 00:16:30

That's just ridiculous. Right?

00:16:31 --> 00:16:33

Like, what? How does physics tell me about

00:16:33 --> 00:16:36

the metaphysical, the unseen world, when we're observing

00:16:36 --> 00:16:37

what we can see? It just You need

00:16:37 --> 00:16:39

to remove that discussion from the physics department

00:16:39 --> 00:16:42

altogether. No, that's not the issue. The scientific

00:16:42 --> 00:16:44

instruments of our age have created

00:16:45 --> 00:16:46

so much luxury

00:16:46 --> 00:16:49

that people naturally are going to become heedless

00:16:49 --> 00:16:50

of God.

00:16:50 --> 00:16:52

They're going to develop the God complex.

00:16:53 --> 00:16:54

That's natural. The Quran told us that.

00:16:57 --> 00:16:59

The human being always crosses his limits when

00:16:59 --> 00:17:01

he feels like he has no more needs

00:17:01 --> 00:17:01

anymore.

00:17:02 --> 00:17:03

So that the the independence

00:17:04 --> 00:17:06

and the comfort and the luxury and the

00:17:06 --> 00:17:09

the apparatuses of pleasure created by scientific and

00:17:09 --> 00:17:11

technological advancement, that's what created

00:17:12 --> 00:17:14

atheism in such large hordes now.

00:17:15 --> 00:17:17

And so that much we can agree with.

00:17:18 --> 00:17:20

We are a people that are spoiled

00:17:20 --> 00:17:22

more than any other generation, and so we're

00:17:22 --> 00:17:23

more rebellious,

00:17:23 --> 00:17:25

more godless than any other generation.

00:17:26 --> 00:17:27

You know the famous scientist,

00:17:27 --> 00:17:29

Anthony Flew, who wrote Why the World's Most

00:17:29 --> 00:17:31

Notorious Atheist Now Believes in God or something

00:17:31 --> 00:17:33

like this. That was the title of his

00:17:33 --> 00:17:35

book. He said, It took me 50 years

00:17:35 --> 00:17:38

to realize that when I was 18 and

00:17:38 --> 00:17:40

I disbelieved in God, I had no grounds

00:17:40 --> 00:17:42

for it whatsoever. I was just being silly.

00:17:42 --> 00:17:45

There's actually no philosophical grounds for saying the

00:17:45 --> 00:17:46

problem of evil, which is why he left,

00:17:47 --> 00:17:48

equals no God because

00:17:50 --> 00:17:52

God can know of the evil and be

00:17:52 --> 00:17:54

merciful and be all powerful and still let

00:17:54 --> 00:17:57

it happen because he's the most wise, right?

00:17:57 --> 00:17:59

And he's the most just, Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.

00:17:59 --> 00:17:59

Right?

00:17:59 --> 00:18:02

And he knows the hereafter will make him

00:18:02 --> 00:18:04

not only just, but he will even be

00:18:04 --> 00:18:06

gracious, not just. So it took me it

00:18:06 --> 00:18:08

took me 50 years to just snap out

00:18:08 --> 00:18:10

of my childish approach to God. It was

00:18:10 --> 00:18:12

just heedlessness. It was just the arrogance that

00:18:12 --> 00:18:13

came with our intellectuality.

00:18:14 --> 00:18:16

And so you need to know that even

00:18:16 --> 00:18:19

if someone doesn't recognize that, they need gentle,

00:18:19 --> 00:18:20

humbling process.

00:18:22 --> 00:18:23

You know, one of our,

00:18:25 --> 00:18:27

our researchers at Iqin, Doctor. Hassan Alwani, it's

00:18:27 --> 00:18:29

a great Morabi as well. He says, and

00:18:29 --> 00:18:31

I gave this example actually in this room

00:18:31 --> 00:18:33

yesterday. I said, If I were to slap

00:18:33 --> 00:18:33

this podium,

00:18:34 --> 00:18:36

assuming it's wood, right? And pull an apple

00:18:36 --> 00:18:38

out of it, you'd be blown away. You'd

00:18:38 --> 00:18:39

say, This is miraculous. This is supernatural.

00:18:40 --> 00:18:42

So why don't we feel like every apple

00:18:42 --> 00:18:45

that is produced out of a wooden branch

00:18:45 --> 00:18:47

on every single tree is miraculous and supernatural?

00:18:48 --> 00:18:51

It's not like there's absence of signs. There's

00:18:51 --> 00:18:52

just presence of arrogance.

00:18:52 --> 00:18:54

You understand the issue here?

00:18:55 --> 00:18:57

And we with, you know, like with telescopes

00:18:57 --> 00:18:58

and microscopes

00:18:58 --> 00:19:01

can see more signs of God than previous

00:19:01 --> 00:19:02

generations.

00:19:03 --> 00:19:05

But because there's more arrogance there,

00:19:05 --> 00:19:07

more darkness to the heart, the heedlessness

00:19:08 --> 00:19:10

doesn't prevent us, doesn't allow us

00:19:11 --> 00:19:12

to make use of any of it.

00:19:13 --> 00:19:15

You know, it's like Surah Al Kahf, by

00:19:15 --> 00:19:15

the way.

00:19:15 --> 00:19:17

They told me it take a little longer

00:19:17 --> 00:19:20

than 20 minutes due to Imam Suhaib. He

00:19:20 --> 00:19:21

actually caught COVID. So may Allah give him

00:19:21 --> 00:19:22

a cure, say amen,

00:19:23 --> 00:19:25

and make an elevation for his ranks.

00:19:25 --> 00:19:27

So I'll split the extra time with

00:19:28 --> 00:19:29

our brother, Muhammad Qajab.

00:19:30 --> 00:19:32

I'm winding down here for sure. But,

00:19:34 --> 00:19:35

in Surat Al Kahsh,

00:19:36 --> 00:19:38

the second story is like the trial of

00:19:38 --> 00:19:39

affluence.

00:19:39 --> 00:19:41

The man who had it made, he had

00:19:41 --> 00:19:43

a garden that nobody had. He was set

00:19:43 --> 00:19:44

up. What did he do when he walked

00:19:44 --> 00:19:45

into his garden?

00:19:45 --> 00:19:46

He doubted God,

00:19:47 --> 00:19:49

right? He had it made and said, you

00:19:49 --> 00:19:50

know, Ma'a'bunnu antabidahadihe

00:19:51 --> 00:19:53

abada. I don't think this will ever perish.

00:19:53 --> 00:19:54

This is this is here for good.

00:19:55 --> 00:19:55

Right?

00:19:56 --> 00:19:57

Wamaa abun nusaaataqaima,

00:19:58 --> 00:19:59

and this is probably not hereafter anyway.

00:20:01 --> 00:20:01

Walainrudit

00:20:05 --> 00:20:07

And if I happen to get called back

00:20:07 --> 00:20:09

to God, I'm going to find some better

00:20:09 --> 00:20:11

stuff there anyway. He gave me that if

00:20:11 --> 00:20:13

he exists and he gave me, that means

00:20:13 --> 00:20:15

he loves me. The delusion that comes with

00:20:16 --> 00:20:17

material gains.

00:20:18 --> 00:20:19

And it's so sad because the owner of

00:20:19 --> 00:20:23

that garden had produce, right? The apple example.

00:20:23 --> 00:20:26

Likewise, we have science. Instead of driving us

00:20:26 --> 00:20:28

to God, it blinds us from God.

00:20:28 --> 00:20:30

What's the whole problem here? It is humility.

00:20:31 --> 00:20:33

So that is your issue. Moisten someone's heart

00:20:33 --> 00:20:34

to humility.

00:20:35 --> 00:20:35

Humility.

00:20:37 --> 00:20:40

Finally, there's a story that I always circle

00:20:40 --> 00:20:40

back to

00:20:41 --> 00:20:42

in my dawah.

00:20:42 --> 00:20:45

I was in a university in New York

00:20:45 --> 00:20:45

City,

00:20:46 --> 00:20:47

and they asked me to speak on the

00:20:47 --> 00:20:49

subject of God loves you.

00:20:50 --> 00:20:51

And so I just strung together what we

00:20:51 --> 00:20:53

know from Allah introducing himself to us in

00:20:53 --> 00:20:56

the Quran, you know, about his love and

00:20:56 --> 00:20:57

his mercy and his compassion and his care.

00:20:57 --> 00:20:58

I hadith and a hadith, I hadith and

00:20:58 --> 00:21:00

a hadith, nothing more. I know that's enough

00:21:00 --> 00:21:02

and I know that's best. A few days

00:21:02 --> 00:21:04

later, I get an email from my sister.

00:21:05 --> 00:21:07

She says to me, I'm really sorry. I

00:21:07 --> 00:21:09

had to walk out of your lecture. I

00:21:09 --> 00:21:11

couldn't be there. I was getting too emotional.

00:21:11 --> 00:21:13

I'm having a crisis of faith. I need

00:21:13 --> 00:21:15

to speak to someone. So me and my

00:21:15 --> 00:21:16

wife make an appointment with her. A few

00:21:16 --> 00:21:18

days later, we drive over. We meet her

00:21:18 --> 00:21:20

in the cafeteria of the university.

00:21:21 --> 00:21:23

I buy fries, like, for myself and her.

00:21:23 --> 00:21:25

The path to the heart is the stomachs.

00:21:25 --> 00:21:28

Remember that one. Okay? I'm dead serious. It

00:21:28 --> 00:21:28

works.

00:21:30 --> 00:21:30

Like

00:21:31 --> 00:21:33

because you know, when I say don't debate,

00:21:33 --> 00:21:35

they're gonna keep wanting to drag you into

00:21:35 --> 00:21:36

the debate. Right?

00:21:37 --> 00:21:40

And so let's get some food. You're my

00:21:40 --> 00:21:42

brother and sister outside of this conversation, right?

00:21:43 --> 00:21:45

Keith, it is not cowardice. It is strategy,

00:21:46 --> 00:21:47

right? So anyway,

00:21:48 --> 00:21:51

we sat down, fries are there, and she

00:21:51 --> 00:21:52

says, I don't even know where I stand.

00:21:52 --> 00:21:55

I said, Where? Prophethood, oneness of God, existence

00:21:55 --> 00:21:56

of God? She's like, Rewind all the way

00:21:56 --> 00:21:57

back. I don't even know if there's a

00:21:57 --> 00:21:58

God.

00:21:59 --> 00:22:00

I said, Okay.

00:22:02 --> 00:22:04

So I'm already, like,

00:22:04 --> 00:22:07

wondering, like, if there's no God, if God

00:22:07 --> 00:22:09

is just imaginary, then why would you get

00:22:09 --> 00:22:09

emotional

00:22:10 --> 00:22:11

if I'm talking about how awesome God is

00:22:11 --> 00:22:13

in my lecture, right? If it's a fairy

00:22:13 --> 00:22:15

tale, it shouldn't move you. I didn't tell

00:22:15 --> 00:22:16

her this.

00:22:16 --> 00:22:18

Then I'm thinking, Well, how should I approach

00:22:18 --> 00:22:19

this?

00:22:19 --> 00:22:21

So I just started talking about, like, cause

00:22:21 --> 00:22:23

and effect and contingency arguments and this stuff,

00:22:23 --> 00:22:25

but I wanted to, like, you know, dilute

00:22:25 --> 00:22:27

it from mass consumption. So there was a

00:22:27 --> 00:22:28

napkin in front of me on the table

00:22:28 --> 00:22:30

with the fries. So I said to her,

00:22:30 --> 00:22:31

like, if this napkin

00:22:33 --> 00:22:34

if I told you it got here on

00:22:34 --> 00:22:36

the table all by itself, would you

00:22:36 --> 00:22:37

believe this?

00:22:38 --> 00:22:39

Or would you think I'm crazy? I was

00:22:39 --> 00:22:40

like, No, come on. That can't be true.

00:22:40 --> 00:22:42

I said, Okay, let's take it a step

00:22:42 --> 00:22:43

up. What if I told you the napkin

00:22:43 --> 00:22:46

manufactured itself by on its own?

00:22:47 --> 00:22:48

She said, Yeah, that would be harder to

00:22:48 --> 00:22:51

believe. And I sort of dragged it out.

00:22:51 --> 00:22:52

I kept escalating from the napkin to the

00:22:52 --> 00:22:54

cell phone, from the cell phone to the

00:22:54 --> 00:22:56

universe, and so on and so forth, right?

00:22:56 --> 00:22:57

Deliberately.

00:22:57 --> 00:22:59

And I just kept talking. And then, like,

00:22:59 --> 00:23:01

I don't know how long it was, maybe

00:23:01 --> 00:23:02

5, 10 minutes.

00:23:02 --> 00:23:04

I'm just like, Sister,

00:23:05 --> 00:23:06

can I stop yet?

00:23:07 --> 00:23:08

She's like I told her, like, I'm a

00:23:08 --> 00:23:10

shirk. They give me microphone, give me 45

00:23:10 --> 00:23:11

minutes, and I have to go. They press

00:23:11 --> 00:23:13

start. Like, you gotta tell me when to

00:23:13 --> 00:23:14

stop. Is this working?

00:23:14 --> 00:23:15

You know what she said to me? And

00:23:15 --> 00:23:16

you feel like such an idiot.

00:23:17 --> 00:23:18

She said, you had me at the napkin.

00:23:20 --> 00:23:22

And the reason I cite this,

00:23:23 --> 00:23:24

why did she walk out if she eats

00:23:24 --> 00:23:25

fantasy,

00:23:25 --> 00:23:27

why was the simplest proof

00:23:28 --> 00:23:31

enough for her, is that people ultimately,

00:23:31 --> 00:23:33

they want to believe in God, but not

00:23:33 --> 00:23:34

just want to.

00:23:35 --> 00:23:37

People want to connect with him as well.

00:23:38 --> 00:23:41

You see, when I say atheism, you need

00:23:41 --> 00:23:42

to understand the

00:23:43 --> 00:23:45

domain in which you're playing.

00:23:45 --> 00:23:46

There is a worldwide

00:23:47 --> 00:23:49

decline in what is called hard or true

00:23:49 --> 00:23:50

atheism.

00:23:50 --> 00:23:52

Atheism is just like a placeholder for people.

00:23:52 --> 00:23:55

Like, I'm not down with organized religion, or

00:23:55 --> 00:23:57

I'm not sure if there's proof for God,

00:23:57 --> 00:23:59

or something like this. Right? The agnos and

00:23:59 --> 00:24:01

the Many of these people don't know the

00:24:01 --> 00:24:04

nuances between these terms. Right? But atheism, as

00:24:04 --> 00:24:07

in asserting that there is no God, and

00:24:07 --> 00:24:10

this is a stillbirth. This was born dead.

00:24:10 --> 00:24:11

It was never meant to keep its momentum.

00:24:12 --> 00:24:14

It's against the grain. There's a worldwide, you

00:24:14 --> 00:24:16

know, decline in this sort of Because you

00:24:16 --> 00:24:17

know why?

00:24:18 --> 00:24:20

Fitra, right? Like psychologically,

00:24:20 --> 00:24:21

emotionally,

00:24:21 --> 00:24:23

people are unwilling to accept

00:24:24 --> 00:24:26

that there's no explanation for where I came

00:24:26 --> 00:24:27

from,

00:24:27 --> 00:24:30

why I'm here, where I'm going. That just

00:24:30 --> 00:24:32

creates too much anxiety. The human being is

00:24:32 --> 00:24:33

not willing to accept this,

00:24:34 --> 00:24:34

Right?

00:24:35 --> 00:24:36

And so,

00:24:36 --> 00:24:38

like, no, I'm not going to believe that

00:24:38 --> 00:24:40

I'm just going to wake up on a

00:24:40 --> 00:24:42

bus and just enjoy the ride without asking

00:24:42 --> 00:24:43

how I got here, or who's driving, where

00:24:43 --> 00:24:45

we go, and No. I'm not going to

00:24:45 --> 00:24:46

accept this.

00:24:47 --> 00:24:47

And

00:24:48 --> 00:24:50

considering that is the case, don't now assume

00:24:50 --> 00:24:52

that, Oh, the world's coming back to religion.

00:24:52 --> 00:24:53

No.

00:24:53 --> 00:24:55

The world, most of the world, if you

00:24:55 --> 00:24:58

actually probe a little bit, that leave, you

00:24:58 --> 00:24:58

know, religion,

00:24:59 --> 00:25:01

they maybe dabble with atheism, they wind up

00:25:01 --> 00:25:03

in negative theology, or what are called the

00:25:03 --> 00:25:05

nones, or the non religious, or whatnot, or

00:25:05 --> 00:25:07

the agnostics, or whatever it is.

00:25:09 --> 00:25:11

And I find this so profound because

00:25:12 --> 00:25:13

the Qur'an

00:25:14 --> 00:25:18

The Quran never really addresses atheism head on.

00:25:18 --> 00:25:19

It doesn't.

00:25:20 --> 00:25:23

Like, it it it When it speaks about

00:25:23 --> 00:25:26

arguments that could be told to an atheist,

00:25:26 --> 00:25:28

it says them in a rhetorical, like Afillahi

00:25:29 --> 00:25:31

Shek. Like, is there any? Meaning there absolutely

00:25:31 --> 00:25:33

isn't any doubt regarding God. Amkholiqumirayi

00:25:34 --> 00:25:36

shayin? Were they created out of nothing? That's

00:25:36 --> 00:25:38

a rhetorical. That's not a real question, you

00:25:38 --> 00:25:40

know, as if the person doesn't that's supposed

00:25:40 --> 00:25:41

to humble you and say, no. Of course

00:25:41 --> 00:25:43

not. We were not created out of nothing.

00:25:43 --> 00:25:46

It dismisses the hard atheist because there is

00:25:46 --> 00:25:48

no hard atheist. There is no true atheist.

00:25:48 --> 00:25:51

There could be someone trying to continually bury

00:25:51 --> 00:25:53

that notion of theirs.

00:25:53 --> 00:25:55

But then you when you realize, wait, the

00:25:55 --> 00:25:57

Quran doesn't really, like, take on atheism head

00:25:57 --> 00:25:58

on and Allah knew that atheism would sort

00:25:58 --> 00:26:00

of rise in certain periods,

00:26:00 --> 00:26:03

very rarely but it would. Why? But then

00:26:03 --> 00:26:05

you see the Quran goes to great lengths.

00:26:05 --> 00:26:07

If everyone believes in God, then why does

00:26:07 --> 00:26:09

the Quran go to great lengths in describing

00:26:09 --> 00:26:10

him?

00:26:10 --> 00:26:12

Because there's a world of difference

00:26:12 --> 00:26:14

between having a placeholder

00:26:14 --> 00:26:18

saying Supreme Being, God, and Allah out there,

00:26:18 --> 00:26:20

right? Even pagans would use the word, And

00:26:20 --> 00:26:22

between knowing Allah enough,

00:26:24 --> 00:26:26

right? Learning about developing your God image, if

00:26:26 --> 00:26:28

I can borrow the psych term from yesterday,

00:26:28 --> 00:26:30

in a way that would make him relevant

00:26:30 --> 00:26:33

for you. And I'm willing to submit to

00:26:33 --> 00:26:35

him and accept him Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.

00:26:36 --> 00:26:38

And that is why, by the way, the

00:26:38 --> 00:26:41

describing God to people as framed by the

00:26:41 --> 00:26:41

Quran

00:26:42 --> 00:26:44

is the true route to curing atheism for

00:26:44 --> 00:26:45

those that are receptive.

00:26:46 --> 00:26:48

You're like, hijab's gonna kill me again. I

00:26:48 --> 00:26:49

can't believe I'm not throwing shade. I swear

00:26:49 --> 00:26:51

to God, I'm not throwing shade. He did

00:26:51 --> 00:26:53

his PhD in the kelam cosmological argument, and

00:26:53 --> 00:26:55

we need more of this. But

00:26:58 --> 00:26:59

I personally,

00:26:59 --> 00:27:01

without getting sectarian here,

00:27:02 --> 00:27:03

I don't believe

00:27:03 --> 00:27:05

that there is much value at all

00:27:06 --> 00:27:07

in getting into discussions

00:27:08 --> 00:27:09

that intellectually

00:27:09 --> 00:27:11

prove God's existence.

00:27:12 --> 00:27:14

And I need to be done in

00:27:15 --> 00:27:16

4 minutes.

00:27:16 --> 00:27:17

Why?

00:27:17 --> 00:27:18

Because

00:27:18 --> 00:27:20

I believe if you get to a point

00:27:21 --> 00:27:23

where you're doubting God's existence,

00:27:23 --> 00:27:25

that's not the real issue.

00:27:25 --> 00:27:27

The issue could be your mechanism with which

00:27:27 --> 00:27:30

you're processing. It's blurred by heedlessness, blurred by

00:27:30 --> 00:27:30

arrogance,

00:27:31 --> 00:27:32

blurred by radical skepticism,

00:27:33 --> 00:27:33

cynicism.

00:27:35 --> 00:27:35

You

00:27:36 --> 00:27:38

know, read the story of Al Ghazali

00:27:39 --> 00:27:41

for example, who when he went down the

00:27:41 --> 00:27:43

philosophical path and he punctured through it, became

00:27:43 --> 00:27:44

a master of it.

00:27:45 --> 00:27:47

Many Westerners think he's the consider him, I

00:27:47 --> 00:27:49

don't mean that in a derogatory way. Consider

00:27:49 --> 00:27:51

him the greatest critique of, you know, Greek

00:27:51 --> 00:27:54

philosophy, for example. Some Westerners consider him this.

00:27:54 --> 00:27:56

But what did he arrive at? All this

00:27:56 --> 00:27:59

stuff is just a sham, right? He, at

00:27:59 --> 00:28:01

the end, had a fallout even with rational

00:28:01 --> 00:28:02

theology,

00:28:02 --> 00:28:02

right?

00:28:03 --> 00:28:05

And then let's leave Ghazali for a second.

00:28:05 --> 00:28:06

Rene Descartes,

00:28:07 --> 00:28:08

you guys know the concept of like Cartesian

00:28:08 --> 00:28:11

doubt? Descartes basically said, I can't trust anything.

00:28:11 --> 00:28:13

The only thing I know is that I

00:28:13 --> 00:28:14

think. I think therefore I am. That's what

00:28:14 --> 00:28:15

they tell you in Philosophy 101, right? I

00:28:15 --> 00:28:17

think therefore I am. You don't know that

00:28:17 --> 00:28:20

Descartes had a crisis of it. And he

00:28:20 --> 00:28:21

said, Wait a minute. How do I know

00:28:21 --> 00:28:21

I think?

00:28:22 --> 00:28:23

How do I know basically I'm not in

00:28:23 --> 00:28:24

the matrix?

00:28:25 --> 00:28:26

How do I know that I'm not a

00:28:26 --> 00:28:28

brain in a jar with wires plugged into

00:28:28 --> 00:28:31

it, like being manipulated in my thoughts? How

00:28:31 --> 00:28:31

do I know I think?

00:28:33 --> 00:28:34

It's skepticism.

00:28:34 --> 00:28:36

Doubting is not a path to knowledge. It

00:28:36 --> 00:28:38

is a path to further doubt. It's a

00:28:38 --> 00:28:39

black hole.

00:28:40 --> 00:28:41

How do I know I'm not part of

00:28:41 --> 00:28:42

an aliens video game?

00:28:44 --> 00:28:46

Nobody say, Good point, please.

00:28:47 --> 00:28:47

Right?

00:28:48 --> 00:28:49

And so, you know what you know what

00:28:49 --> 00:28:51

Descartes said in the end? He needed an

00:28:51 --> 00:28:53

anchor for his I think, and that anchor

00:28:53 --> 00:28:54

was God. He said, You know what? There

00:28:54 --> 00:28:56

has to be something that is a given.

00:28:56 --> 00:28:58

There must be a God, he said,

00:28:59 --> 00:29:01

and God must not be a deceiver or

00:29:01 --> 00:29:02

else there's no point in even trying to

00:29:02 --> 00:29:05

think things through. And so, removing God

00:29:06 --> 00:29:09

from skepticism, removing God from the intellectual discussion

00:29:09 --> 00:29:11

is the way to do things.

00:29:11 --> 00:29:13

When you do your Dua with someone, I'm

00:29:13 --> 00:29:14

gonna say it again,

00:29:15 --> 00:29:16

invoke their sitra

00:29:17 --> 00:29:19

that you know is there. Invoke the ayaat

00:29:19 --> 00:29:21

of Allah, the verses I gave you an

00:29:21 --> 00:29:23

example of, and the universe,

00:29:23 --> 00:29:25

right, we spoke about.

00:29:25 --> 00:29:27

And then also you want to rattle their

00:29:27 --> 00:29:29

confidence in their intellectuality with a little bit

00:29:29 --> 00:29:31

of logic, a little bit of reasoning, whether

00:29:31 --> 00:29:34

it's like inductive reasoning, the empirical to science,

00:29:34 --> 00:29:35

or deductive reasoning.

00:29:35 --> 00:29:37

Sure, fine. But let it start with the

00:29:37 --> 00:29:39

fitra. Let it start with

00:29:39 --> 00:29:41

the ayat of Allah, the observed and the

00:29:41 --> 00:29:44

recited. And let it be this also,

00:29:44 --> 00:29:47

and the bridge for all of those proofs

00:29:47 --> 00:29:49

to get into their heart after Allah's permission

00:29:49 --> 00:29:50

is what?

00:29:50 --> 00:29:51

Your manners.

00:29:52 --> 00:29:54

Keep the relationship salient.

00:29:55 --> 00:29:57

Your manners are the bridge over which your

00:29:57 --> 00:30:00

proofs march into people's hearts and over the

00:30:00 --> 00:30:01

walls of their defense mechanisms.

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