Maryam Amir – U.N. Advocate and Maqasid alShariah Graduate Ustada Ajarat Bada interview
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Bismillahi, Rahman Al Rahim Bismillah. Rahman Rahim
alhamdulillahi, Rabbil Alameen alhamdulillahi. Rabbil Alameen
alhamdulillahi. Rabbil ilamin alhamdulillahi. Rabbil Alameen
Alhamdulillah mean, barakah Lo Fi come for your patience in Shah
Allah, we're gonna do it this time. Salah. Rahman Al Rahim,
subhanAllah, Alhamdulillah, wala ILAHA, illallah, Allahu Akbar,
subhanAllah, Wali Kumar, here too, Subah Han, Allah, you
Alhamdulillah, you, Allah,
subhana, Allah, Allah, ILAHA, illallah, Allahu, Akbar,
subhanAllah, Alhamdulillah, wala ILAHA, illallah, Allahu, Akbar,
walikumat, Allah, He will I get to Subhanallah, Alhamdulillah,
illallah, Allah. Akbar,
subhanAllah, WA Alhamdulillah, Allah, ILAHA, illallah, Allah.
Akbar, hopefully it will
work this time.
This man, Allahu, Akbar, Inshallah, Alhamdulillah. A
I
don't know why it didn't work, but here we are.
Thank you so much for just the patience and you
know, there's a little bit of a light glow. Should I put? Maybe I
should put off one of my lights. That would be great. Actually.
Thank you once again, bearish nature, may Allah, bless you.
Mashallah Ajara is actually someone that, Alhamdulillah, I've
known for some time, but I had no idea that she was Masha Allah,
such an incredibly international figure. So Barak Allah, that's how
humble she is. She is such a humble person, okay,
oh yes, we can see, yeah, that was the light for the that area. Oh,
it's so good to see you.
I'm so sorry, guys, I don't use Instagram. I apologize, Sir, here
we are nothing to apologize for. Thank you for giving us from your
extremely valuable time. May Allah have you. Alhamdulillah, quickly.
Let me introduce is that Ajara because mashallah, she is someone
who is incredibly humble, and you will literally know her like I do
and have no clue that mashallah she has. She She is an
international figure, Tabata kala. She's a graduate of the Qatar
faculty of Islamic Studies. She's a un advocate. She's a registered
nurse, and she works in the healthcare system. But also, also
she has been mentored under Dr jasda, who is one of the foremost
scholars in Maqasid and who addresses women in Islamic law.
She is on a board working to implement ideas of Maqasid al
Sharia into different parts of the globe in terms of in healthcare,
and she's been profiled on NPR, CNN, New York Times and Masha
Allah. She's also been the One Young World ambassador, a director
of missing Millennium Development Goal initiative, I literally could
just keep going on and yet, subhanAllah, with all of this
mashallah, she is someone who's incredibly grounded in her Islam
and extremely genuine, like you are one of the most humble people
I've ever spoken with. May Allah bless you and increase you in
humility and sincerity and put Baruch in your work. Can you share
with us a little bit about your journey? Where did you start?
Like, how did you get to Islamic Studies? How did you get to
working with the UN and and introducing policy to the UN that
they didn't have for them to implement? And now? Where are you
today?
Alright? So Allah, His Salalah, Rabi, Shali, sadriwa Yesterday,
Abu dat amisani of kaukauli. Thank you. Maryam, Michelle, you make it
sound larger than life. So I'm very grateful. Alhamdulillah, very
grateful.
I'm very grateful. Alhamdulillah, you know that we met. Can you guys
hear me? Okay, yeah, yeah, you're great. Okay, okay, yeah, I'm very
grateful that we met. So my journey, I think Subhanallah, it's
been, I think Mary and I chatted about this journey, and it's very,
you know, it's very long. However, let me try to, you know, I
that's helpful. Inshallah, so my my background, just to share with
you, I'm Nigerian, born and raised, and I came here to go to
college Hamdulillah. Was raised in a, I would say, like a middle, you
know, middle class family, and.
You know, Alhamdulillah, like my parents, did a very good job
making sure that we were very grounded. We went to Islamic
school, you know, as much as we could on the weekends. And then
when there was an Islamic elementary school that opened up,
my mom put us in there. When it went, we went to public school.
However, there was still this very strong connection. So this is to
say that Alhamdulillah, like I grew up, with an appreciation of
religion. I grew up, you know, I didn't. I wasn't a rebellious, and
I don't say this to be arrogant, but I wasn't a rebellious kid. I
washamed, you know, very interested in, in my religion, in
in praying and fasting. When it was time to wear the hijab, I took
it up without hesitation. It was just fine. I was one of those, I
don't know, easy kids, if you it was fine. Alhamdulillah, it was
without struggle. However, it wasn't until many years to 2012 to
be quite precise, actually, that I had some sort of a paradigm shift
in my life that kind of took me on this trajectory that I will share
with you of how I got, you know, very involved in this area of
Makassar, in this area of Islamic studies. But I'll, but I'll
backtrack to 2010 so I'm a nurse by training. I went to nursing
school, and at that time I was doing my Masters in Public Health.
So I came across this article, just one of those random Facebook
articles about bringing together young people from all over the
world, you know, who could come and give solutions to the world's
problems, as we know very well in today's, you know, in, I guess now
young people are very, very active and engaged in society. But I
think for many years, you know, a lot of time policies are passed
down from the older generation to the younger ones. So I saw this
article for one year old. It was the first time ever, and it was
supposed to be in the brightest, smartest, best young people. So I
was like, Ah, I think that sounds like me humble, you know, positive
imagery without being, you know, humble. I did have that. So I
applied, actually, to to go to that conference in London, the
first time ever. And the idea, again, like I mentioned, was to
bring together the best and the brightest young people to the
world's, you know, stage, but instead of them actually listening
to older people. And when I say that, just to nuance it, we're
supposed to propose solutions to the world's problems, right to the
to to the older generation. So we had the former Secretary General
to the UN Kofi Annan was there, the Mayor of London. You had
Professor Mohammed Yunus of the gramming Bank. So you had, you
know, this kinds of important people, that's hard, Bishop
Desmond, tutu, Bob Geldof, activists, presidents, all these
kind of people were at the conference. So I went and at that
time, like I said, I was studying a Masters in Public Health. So I
decided to speak to the UN's agenda on health. They have
something at that time called the Millennium Development Goals. This
is a 15 year agenda from 2000 to 2015 they were working on. And I
think three or four of those goals were related to health. So my talk
was basically based on, you know, what is it UN's progress with
health globally? How are they doing? What can they do better in
a very, very
straightforward, if you may, academic process. But
Alhamdulillah, I think the speech was very well, very well received.
It gave me a lot of confidence. I got a lot of very positive
feedback from that conference in London at the time. And
Alhamdulillah, like it just wow. It was really a very, you know,
amazing experience for me. And at the end of the conference, having
connected to all these amazing people from all over the world,
the take home message for us was to go back to our respective
countries and see how we could further influence or engage global
policy. It was just one of those. You know, when you go to these
conferences, some of them are similarly, Kumbaya. Go back home
and see how you can change the world. Is actually very proactive
about that. They supported us. They gave us, you know, avenues to
reach out to these people and basically just engage and give us
a very, very solid backing, if you may. When I came back to the US at
the time, I was like, you know, I'm looking at this UN development
goals. There are eight of them at the time. And I was like, Why is
there no goal that's relating to peace? I mean, very humble thing.
And then particularly for me, I thought, in a post 911 world
right? Why isn't there a global agenda that's dealing with this?
Because, you know, obviously after 911 terrorism became a big issue,
obviously on the world's agenda. And I was like, How come the UN
didn't account for this in their Millennium Development Goals? So I
just said, there's a missing goal. It was very, very naive, if you
may, of me at the time, I was like, there's a goal that's
missing. So I wrote it up, literally in a piece of paper. And
we target some indicators the same way that the UN would write their
goals, having the, of course, Allah is the one that takes credit
for the inspiration, and, you know, people that we engage with.
But I literally just wrote it down in the way that they would write
goals and targets of the UN and and I passed it on to the One
Young World ambassadors, as they called us, after the conference,
you became an ambassador after you attended the one year World
Conference. And I passed it on. And hamdullah, somehow he got into
the hands of the Director of Policy at the UN and somehow, you
know, subhanAllah, some of the on your world ambassadors that I went
with, some of them were also very interested in in working with me
on this particularly, you know girl from South Africa, another
guy from Russia, you know, Alhamdulillah, we're very
interested to the three of us, kind of like from the little team,
if you may. And we were offered internships through the United
Religions initiatives at the UN so hamdullah, when I think about it,
people, I don't know, make applications and things like that
to get to the UN, and I don't know be have an internship. We were
giving those, and we're invited to.
New York hamdullilla, humbling experience. At the time, the last
we went to New York, we were invited, you know, access to all
these meetings and negotiations and forums and all of that.
Alhamdulillah. I got to travel all around the world. It was an
amazing experience. I just never thought about Alhamdulillah.
Amazing life changing. I met people, presidents, heads of
states, activists, I don't know, name it. You know, business
leaders all over the world. I met I it was amazing, really, I don't
want to spend a lot of time talking about it, but an amazing
experience of meeting people and engaging policy makers at the
time. How do I mean, I did that? You know, 2010 2011 and one of
those trips, actually, I got a chance to travel to Qatar. And I
mentioned Qatar because I will mention later how it factors into
it. But again, another phenomenal experience. We particularly worked
with something called the UN Alliance of Civilizations, which
was the UN's basic it was an initiative of, at that time, the
president of Turkey and Spain, trying to again, deal with this
issue of terrorism, right, East against West. You know, the
Alliance of Civilizations, for those who are familiar with this,
huttington's theory of the clash of civilizations, anyhow, but that
was a part of the UN that we were working with at the time, and we
got a chance to travel. So anyhow, as I would go to all these
conferences and meetings, just to mention, like I would be many
places, the only Muslim, literally visible Muslim, forgive me, of
course, for the for the brothers, you know, it may it may not be.
It's not obviously a very easy to identify, if you may, your
sisters, brother and a sister who doesn't wear hijab. And of course,
there's so many people who are Muslim. I mean, hijab is not only
our identity. It's not the only identity of the Muslim woman. It
was. I would be the only visible Muslim that you know, Muslim, and
I would have people just come and challenge me and talk to me,
Alhamdulillah, like Allah gave me a lot of inspiration, and I would
always respond again, a very positive experience throughout.
But then people would ask me, like, what's your background? And
I'm like, I'm a nurse. And they're like, ah, that's it. Like, okay,
like, what's that about? Like, I don't know. I'm a nurse. I guess
I'm just passionate read a lot about things. I'm not I'm not a
trained policy person. I'm a nurse. Literally. I never study
social sciences in college, right? But then it became so the more you
know, the more I engage, the more I wanted to and I and I don't know
if it was, if there was a need for it, more than you know sometimes,
I mean, in society, we want to be people that have credibility, if
you may, right? Because when people would ask me, and I'll say,
I'm a nurse, and he's like, how does a nurse get to do this? So I
think I wanted more for myself to have some sort of a credibility,
right? I'm going to study policy. And just to mention, like, at that
time, I was actually headed to medical school, so I forget this
little piece of it. I was supposed to go to medical school. I take in
the MCAT, even the UK CAD, and I'd gone for interviews here and
there. And after all this amazing experience, I was like, No way I'm
giving this up for medical school, particularly because I thought,
like, Alhamdulillah, like what I was working on and experiencing
was such an amazing and phenomenal thing that I didn't think I felt
like Allah placed me in this, in this situation, you know, in this
exposed me in this manner for a reason, and I, and I wasn't going
to throw that away, if you may, Alhamdulillah, I think for most
importantly, whether to be a doctor or nurse, whatever it was,
I convinced myself, and I've always said this, but I think when
you're thrown into it, you get to actualize it. And I said, this is
all for the sake of Allah, this is all for the sake of the Ummah, for
the sake of benefit, to do something we need to with my life,
whether it be a doctor, an advocate, and if I'm thrown into
this and it's positive already, why should I live it alone? You
know what I mean, to go so I basically let go of my dream of
being a doctor, and Alhamdulillah, like I have. I mean, I'm very
grateful for all the amazing you know doctors, Masha, Allah, I wish
I could join you guys, but Alhamdulillah, like Allah, put me
in a different path. And I'm very grateful that I that I listened
and he supported me. So that was that about that. So I wanted to
study policy. Now I was very clear that medicine was not no longer my
goal. I wanted to study policy. And so I was looking for policy
programs to study, you know, whether it was to go for another
masters at the time or to go for a PhD. So I also researched policy
programs, um, and I, and I and I got I applied to a couple of them,
and I got accepted, but I didn't start yet. So now let me talk
about how my Islamic journey, basically, when my journey of
Makassar Sharia, ties with this. So I'm, I'm, I don't know, for for
many of you familiar with the Muslim American society mass
member, and I've always volunteered with them every year
at the convention. Beyond attending it, I'd always
volunteered in 2012 I think I even met Mariam formally, actually had
a mass convention. So here, so in 2012 I went to one of the
conventions. I was a volunteer, and I was off shift from about 930
in the morning to like 1045 I didn't have any I wasn't supposed
to be at my volunteer post, and I just walked into this lecture hall
just, I've never heard of him in my life. Never met him, nothing.
But I walked into this hall and I was giving a lecture about
makasharia, and I was like, What is Sharia like? Really? There is a
reason why we actually pray and fast like, there's a reason for
for Allah, you know, for for the for the legislations Allah, Allah
has given to us. There's a reason why we do things like Islam has a
higher purpose beyond.
The letter, there's the essence of the religion I never in my life,
and this is why I made that preamble to say it was very easy
for me. I didn't struggle like I wasn't looking when I was younger.
Why am I praying? Why am I fasting? You came, but to be able
to see that there was Subhanallah like a there was a reason. It just
gave me this paradigm shift. It gave me this oomph that I've never
experienced in my life. And I was like, wow. Like, no one, how come
throughout? I mean, I was 20, what 20, whatever at that time, but how
come I've never had until that time, this concept of right, the
meaning behind religion, I've never literally. I mean, I'm not a
native Arabic speaker, so even the the word macassian is something
I've never heard of until that time. But I was like, Really, this
concept never ever came through. I was just so enamored by that
lecture, literally, the one lecture that changed my life and
changed the paradigm of my video that I think of my religion. So I
walked up to Dr Jaster after the lecture, and I was like, I just
have a couple questions. I mean, I'm really fascinated, and I have
a couple of questions. And I wrote I was going to ask him, and he's
like, do you have some time? And I was like, Sure. I thought maybe he
would say, like, you know, can you come back during? Back during
lunch break because I'm busy? And he ordered me a business card. And
he was like, come to the faculties and study with me for two years.
So actually, he said, Do you have two years? And I was like, wait, I
just want to ask a couple questions. Like, why are you
asking me have two years? And he gave me the business card. And
when I asked him that, Alhamdulillah, like Mashallah. I,
you know, through time being his students and being become very
close to him, you know, and his wife and family, hamdullah, just
very amazing people. And I asked him when he was like, I don't know
why I gave you the business card. I guess it just came to me and I
gave it to you. I actually took it seriously, like I, you know, maybe
he didn't think much of it, but I took the business card with me. I
went home and I researched, you know, the faculty of Islamic
Studies. And guess what, Miriam, there is a program called public
policy in Islam. And I'm like, the only thing better than public
policy, obviously, is public policy in Islam. No brainer.
Alhamdulillah. So I applied, and before you know what, 2013 I
headed to Qatar, and I started at the faculty and Alhamdulillah. It
was amazing experience of my life. I met the most amazing students
from all over the world. We were on scholarship. It was amazing,
Alhamdulillah. It was just an amazing experience on every
ground, meeting with even some of the really high, top, top notch
scholars in today's, you know, contemporary world today, like
studying with them. Alhamdulillah. But again, my focus was on
makassid or Sharia. Took some more classes to classes in Islamic
governance, international relations in Islam, you know,
those kinds of things, which you can also obviously, got a chance
to practice my Arabic, you know, be in a decent setting. Hamdullah,
I don't know, Qatar is amazing. I truly, truly love Doha, the
ambiance. It's beautiful, contributed for people, beautiful
culture, beautiful adab. And so in a nutshell, that's kind of how I
combined, if you may, this my, you know, my, I don't know, my
academic thing, with this, with this, you know, study, my Islamic
passion, if you may, they somehow merge together. And I went to
Qatar. I studied there for two years, and Alhamdulillah, I was
able to graduate. And a thesis, literally, my, my thesis is
actually SubhanAllah. It's so long now, but it's called, oh my god,
SubhanAllah. Can I forget my thesis name? But basically it's
relating to how we can enhance the UN's policy on health using Maka
Sharia. Literally, that's, that's, that's my thesis that I wrote
Alhamdulillah. And basically that's it. So, so so maybe I'll
pause there for the next question. But that's how kind of like my
journey has been and and since then, I mean, I continued with the
UN so in 2015 we got to work on something called the Sustainable
Development Goal, so that missing MDG that I that I was mentioning,
were able to get that into the agenda. So we went and did some
negotiations in New York. Can you put this there? Can you put that
there? Again, an amazing experience to just debate policy
and, you know, add that sentence here, have that period here, at
the semicolon and being dramatic. But the point is, it's just it was
an amazing experience to be able to debate policy and negotiate for
things that literally are affecting everybody. Now, the
reason why some things are in place are because people go to get
engaged in those meetings and those policy discussions and they
just dis, you know, literally debate. So we have something
called, and I just like to take credit, along again, with my
colleagues and really, so many advocates all over the world, the
Sustainable Development Goal, 17. I mean, 16, I beg your pardon, on,
on, you know, peace, justice and the rule of law. So that's, again,
has our agenda in there, not fully the way that we wanted it, but
that's the nature of policy. You take you take You win some, you
lose some, you're able to get some of your word in there. But the
struggle continues, you know, to engage and to try to get our word
out. So that was very long winded. It was
extremely short. My most initial response to my journey of how I
was able to kind of get involved in both in both areas. Masha
Allah, so let me pick up on where you talked about your master's
thesis and what you introduced to the UN Can you share that? What
does that mean, using Maka Sharia for healthcare globally, like,
what does that actually mean? What does that look like? So,
subhanAllah again, I mean, so the concept of makasi, just to as we
mentioned earlier, and I.
You know, a lot of people in the audience are familiar with the
term, but again, it's the idea that you're looking at the the the
essence of the law, as opposed to the letter, right? Allah says you
should pray, but la Allah, because of what is reason for your prayer
to fast, what is reason for your hijab? It's not just to put a
piece of cloth around your head or to watch the way that you talk and
interact. It's to protect your modesty. It's to guard, you know,
it's to protect your honor and dignity, if you may, right. So
regarding the UN's policy on health, I mean, at the my thesis
basically focused on some case studies, including Ebola, for
example, and
got the other pandemic now, and I'm blanking out, and that's and
that's quite a shame I am blanking. But the point is
basically just looking at how, when we look at policies, when we
try to, when we try to,
is it when we try to, when we try to? Now, my words are failing me
right now, but when you basically, when you, when you try to
implement a policy, or to write up a policy, what are the
considerations that you have right again? What is the intent behind
that policy? What? How is it going to affect people? What is the
spirit behind that law? So again, for example, are we, and I'm going
to share this example from Doctor Jas, for example, like we put a
red light in place somewhere. Is a red light for the purposes of
stopping people or for what is? What is the meaning behind that
red light? What is the meaning behind a vaccine, for example,
right? What is the meaning behind stopping people from traveling,
like, for example, in today's world, in the age of, you know,
we, of course, the covid pandemic, right? Are we just stopping people
from people from traveling because we don't want them? There's wisdom
behind that, right? Because if you go, you get, you know, you you
get, and I think we have this even in our tradition as Muslims, but
you you have the potential to carry the virus, you know, and
we're not supposed to, you're not supposed to bring harm to people,
right? Neither you're Are you supposed to accept harm. So those
kinds of things, you know, just thinking about it, how, as, how
the Islamic democracy, again, how the Islamic the spirit of Islam,
how does it affect policy? I think, particularly helpful,
obviously, for Muslims without abrina, but I think for people,
even on the who are not Muslims, or who are thinking policy on the
outside world, I believe Islam has something very rich, original. We
have to believe this, as Muslims, that our religion is very sacred,
that it's full of wisdom, literally full of wisdom, that
that we have something to offer right to the rest of the world on,
on the beauty of Islam. So basically that that's what the
policy, that's what the thesis is all about. Looking at again, how
do you deal with a pandemic situation in that time, like I
said my case study, when my case studies was on Ebola, but how do
you basically bring in the spirit of the law, right, the spirit of
policy, into the policy making process, beyond just, you know, do
this and do that, just for the fun of it, right? Stop at the red
light, just because I said, so. Why am I stepping at the red
light? Don't travel the pandemic, because I said so, why am I
stepping at the pandemic? What? Why am I not traveling? What are
the deeper meanings behind that, and how does it because in the
end, I think as human beings are fitted out. We have this. Our
Nature naturally, is towards good. We like what is good. We like what
is beneficial, right? So in the end, I think having an
understanding that something that you're doing is good for you makes
it easier for you to do it. For those who struggle, obviously,
right? But even for those who don't struggle, it brings you a
deeper sense of comfort that what I'm doing is actually beneficial,
yes, right? Like entering the pay and the fast and the hijab. So for
example, if you take take things literally. So like, for example,
in Islam, I'm just going to use a basic example, because this is a,
bunch of women on the you know, in the audience, right? It says, you
know, to observe the hijab in front of, you know, non mahram,
right, for example. But what if you have a mahram who is not, who
you're not very who have, maybe lustful eyes, if you may, right,
or who is not necessarily, you know, are you supposed to observe
the hijab in front of that person? If you understand the reason
behind the hijab, then you may not necessarily say, oh, because it's
my uncle, I don't have to wear the hijab. I don't observe the hijab.
But wait and I, and I want to say this example only because it's it
is a real life scenario that we have, right? We have people who
are mahram, who may not be appropriate in the ways that they
understand or they deal you know, they deal with us. So then if you
understand the essence, the Moxie of the hijab. Perhaps you will
observe it in front of somebody like that, if you know what I
mean, it's not a literal religion is not literal for the most part.
There's a context to it. There's a wisdom behind it. And I think that
understanding is very empowering, if you may, right? So this is it,
in essence. What about right now? You mentioned that you're working
with Doctor Jasser on program currently with, what is it that
you're doing now? So currently, there's a some initiatives
regarding something called the makassid Institute. It's very new,
but the idea is, again, bringing this concept of Maka this
paradigm, this methodology of thinking about, you know, about,
about the policy making process, for example, to the larger world.
So I'm on the board of the Makassar Institute again. Very
This is one of our early days, but we're working basically to figure
out how do you so let
me backtrack a little bit. Miriam, so right now, in a lot of our
Islamic rulings, we're very Uli focused, if you may. And leave me
for using that term. But you know, we have we bring things from the
we're relating to things literally.
From the Quran and Hadith, of course, which is a source of
knowledge. But a lot of our, a lot of our, a lot of our
fatwa rulings we have are based on societies, if you may. And I say
this with a lot of reverence and respect, but that are not, they're
not, they're not, they're not as homogeneous to the societies we
have in today's world, right? If you bring a ruling, for example,
from you know, I don't know exactly, right? Today's world is a
little bit different. You're dealing with very, very complex
issues. Ai, for example, right? Intellectual property, for
example, Doctor Basma, one of our hamdullah, the Vice President of
the Makassar Institute, working on intellectual property in the age
of, what does intellectual property mean, right? There's a
pandemic, there's a vaccine that's coming up. What does it mean for
somebody to own, you know what? I mean, the rights to that, to
something that is very beneficial. We don't have ancestor those kinds
of things, right? In contemporary, I mean, sorry, in the fatwas that
have come to us from a long time ago, right? We're dealing with
issues of homosexuality, issues of, I mean, just so many issues,
climate change, sustainability, right? What does it mean? So,
basically, the idea behind the classic Institute, and I'm not the
most articulate person about about about the work of the classic
Institute, but in essence, I basically trying to figure out,
how do you infuse How do you bring back that? How do you basically
bring this methodology, this different mindset, this way of
thinking, to be able to solve contemporary problems where our
most traditional ways of dealing with them are not able to respond,
if you may, right? Again, the example that I gave earlier on,
too. So that's what, that's what the classic Institute is trying to
deal with, to apply those principles. Again, this essence,
this idea of to more, broader areas in academia, policy
sciences, by sustainability studies, and things of that
nature. Okay, subhanAllah, so it's really looking at, you know this,
the the meanings, the wisdom, the spirit behind the rulings, and how
to look at the real issues that we're dealing with today, and how
those come into play, and how you can create access to communities
based on that. Yes, the panel. Love, yeah, you this is ideal. You
don't work full time as a professor of Sharia. What do you
do full time? And because it's different from your studies in
Islamic law, right? You know, a lot of people ask that they want
to take some time off to study Islam, and then they're going to
go to medical school, or they want to be a journalist, or they want
to be something else. Do you Do you think that it's a waste of
time for someone to study Islam seriously and then choose to go
down a different path? Do you find that what you have studied
actually helps with what you do now? Can you share with us what
you're doing? Show and some advice for someone who's thinking about
that? So for sure, Mariam, I mean, the idea no knowledge is wasted,
right? This is classical saying, no matter what you learn, even if,
once upon a time, I took class in physics, did I ever use physics
again, or I took I don't know tennis. Do I play tennis? But you
learn about working together as a team, right? You learn about
mechanics and how things work. So knowledge is wasted. To answer
your question, today, I work as a clinical systems designer, right?
I work, I design clinical systems. I work at Kaiser, I design
clinical programs. And, yes, I mean the knowledge, of course, I
still continue, just so, you know, I still continue to engage the UN.
So, Alhamdulillah, I'm part of something called the UN major
group of women, or the women's major group, and we continue. So
they divided their citizen advocacy into different groups.
You have groups of the business groups, the the the youth, you
have the women's group, and I'm part of that, the women's major
group, so I still have access to the meetings and events and the
negotiations, to the action that I want to get engaged. So,
Alhamdulillah, Alhamdulillah, that I have the opportunity to to
continue to engage. But in the end, I don't believe I didn't go
to school to study, just to share with you that I'd one day go and
teach an Islamic institution that was not my thing, not that I would
not embrace it if it came but I think the idea of, like, you know,
it's not beneficial. I don't agree. I think we have to learn
because of the way society is structured today, because we find
ourselves, particularly in the West society, that's not, you
know, Islamic, forgive that term of what does Islamic mean? But the
point is, you know, we don't hear the ADAD, for example, in the
streets of Los Angeles or wherever it is, right? But I think we have
to learn about our religion. So if you have the opportunity to take
time to go learn, absolutely I think it's important to take the
time to go learn. If you get a chance to actually engage by
teaching, either maybe on the weekend or maybe doing the full
time, that's fine. But if you don't, it balances your life. It
gives you I mean, imagine being able to be a Muslim, to pray, to
fast, to do things, and having a very firm understanding of what
you're doing, what you're doing, it settles in your heart, and also
being able to negotiate little issues. So, for example, the
knowledge of makasi, I come across something. Maybe I'm dealing with
somebody I don't know the gas station, right? I'm trying to
figure out, what is the essence of my interaction with that person?
What is the benefit is bringing the way that I interact with them?
You know? What am I thinking? What is the wisdom behind the way that
I'm dealing with them? You know what I mean? It helps you, even in
your basic life, how I deal with my colleagues, my boss, when I'm
designing a clinical system, I have to think outside the box,
right? And creating a, you know, a healthcare system that's
accessible to not only people who are just like me, but people who
have disabilities, for example, right? You.
Cater to all kinds of people, people who speak different
languages, different cultures. That comes with an understanding
that Islam is a religion that basically caters to everyone,
right, everyone in society, so that knowledge is not wasted. I
don't, I don't believe that it's a waste of time or not, but I
believe your intentions have to be right. Just wanted to mention
that, that when you go on study, your intention slowly has to be to
please Allah, to better yourself as a Muslim. Again, nothing wrong.
If you go and you come back and you either end up being working
full time and as at an at an Islamic institution, or whatever
the case is, that's perfectly fine, but the intention has to be
very firm, like I'm not going to, and I know Miriam and I talked
about this, I'm not going to that one day I would come and be called
a staza or shake or something. I really, literally, when I walked
into Dr Josh's class that day, I mean, this lecture he was given,
it literally changed my worldview, literally, and I wanted to learn
only for that reason, obviously, again, because I was working in
policy, I was more, you know, it was, I was another ginger for me
to go and study the program. But I literally wanted to learn more. I
literally wanted to and I and at that time, I mean, Alhamdulillah,
of course, I I was working as a nurse, and I gave up my job, and I
moved to Qatar for two years. I know it's not the same for
everyone. I didn't have a lot of responsibility. Wasn't married, I
didn't have people depending on me for a salary at the end of so I
know it's not the same case for a lot of people, right? Even as
women will have their place depending on them, whether it's
immediate family or aged parents or siblings. I get that it's
always a balance. I mean, a lot it was intentions. But I believe if
you have your intentions in the right place, opportunities will
open up for you. And Alhamdulillah, today, we didn't
have this even we can say this, even at our age, like what I don't
know 15 years ago or whatever. And even in the US, you didn't have so
many opportunities to learn. Then al mag came up, and all these
programs came up that, you know, lot of people are trained right
here on us, so literally online, like we're talking right now,
right? Yes, and they and they, and they get their bachelor's degree
or master's degree in Islamic Studies. And now, even with covid,
like it's overrated, idea of traveling is overrated, we're able
to continue, literally living and thriving despite not being able to
go anywhere, right? In this past year, a lot of people have
achieved enormous amounts of things. You know SubhanAllah. So
again, to answer your question, there's no nothing is wasted.
Nothing is a waste of time, if your intentions are right.
Alhamdulillah, Allah opens the way for you. I mean, there's this
saying that Subhanallah, like once you have your intention to study
the the angels right? Spread their wings for you, for the students of
knowledge. And a student of knowledge doesn't mean a student
who's going to an AHA or Medina or to Qatar or anywhere. It's person
who's literally going to go and seek knowledge, literally, in any
sense, going to Halakha, for example. Right? The angels lift
their wings and they support you and they elevate you. And I think
that's kind of where our mindset needs to be. The reason for it is
to be a better Muslim, to have a balanced understanding, to be a
better person, to influence society in a better way. Yes,
that, I think, is enough, and whatever opportunities you have to
do that ismailah, go for it. That is so beautiful. Masha, Allah, do
you have advice for people who are struggling with their
circumstances? Maybe they do have all the responsibilities that you
mentioned, and they don't know where to start. They wish that
they could just go for two years or 10 years and study on their
own, but that's just not possible. And you mentioned that there are
so many opportunities right now with like online programs, but
sometimes that seems a little overwhelming. What do you
recommend to someone when they want to study like you did, but
they have a completely different lifestyle, and they don't know how
to even start that process. So I will say the most basic, which we
all know, put your intentions before Allah literally set your
attentions. And honestly, I don't mean to sound like, oh yeah, but
literally, have your intention, set your intention straight, and
Allah will open the way for you. That is number one, but really
little things, right? Seek little things, little, tiny things, the
tennis of things, a book that you pick up, something that you read
and learn and teach your children by the end. Miriam, after that
being said and done, I think you always say this a lot too, right?
As a mother, as you always share with us in your lectures and
things you talk about, even your intention, even though it never
materializes, allow or reward you. There are people who Subhanallah
have never left their homes. They've never been to Aja Umrah,
but they have the reward of it, because there's just so many. Our
religion is so beautiful. Allah is so merciful. There's so many ways
to learn the rewards of it, like our grandmothers didn't even some
of them were not literate, but they cooked and they cleaned and
they took care of us and our parents and all of that. And for
that, subhanAllah, their ranks are elevated even greater, greater
than some of the greatest shoes that ever work the surface of the
earth. We know this for a fact. So I think in the end, it's just
about the intention that you want to live your life, right? You
know, I want to live my life, my prayer, my fast and my sacrifices
are for Allah alone. So whatever you do, subhanAllah, literally, is
towards that whether you're able to achieve it or not, but if you
have your intention, first of all, Allah opens the way for you. And I
also share on the other side of things as well. So take advantage
of opportunities as well. Don't be afraid. So, for example, I think
at that time when I think back now, like, how did I nobody in my
family ever went to the Gulf, or I don't come from a.
A lineage of scholars or people who, literally, I'm the only one
ever of a family and the level members of my family, just to
share with you, nobody ever went to study here. Alhamdulillah,
literally, my my parents and I have eight siblings and plus me
and now, nobody ever went to study overseas or I did anything, but
the opportunity opened up and I embraced it. So the other advice
is, if something comes up, be open and embrace it, whatever it is, an
opportunity as much as as much as you can. I know your questions
about people who can't, but sometimes you have little windows
and things open up. A lecture here, weekend seminar here, a
course, here, a small little book. There, something. Embrace it with
an open heart, and Allah will literally open the way for you.
Inshallah, I believe this because I can say. I mean, when I think of
my experiences, I don't come from a lineage of policy makers, my
none of my family members worked at the UN or cousins or even I
don't know anybody. I didn't know anybody, literally. And I just saw
that Facebook was for One Young World. I went for it. I went to
London. Then I got a chance to travel all over. It was all just
humble love, because Allah facilitated it for me, but I also
embraced it, if you know what I mean, in the little will that I
have of my own self, embraced it. I was open to going to live in
another country because I truly, truly believed in what I wanted to
study. Why not? And it was an amazing experience. I would, I
would do it all over again in a heartbeat and as, oh, sorry,
follow up question to that you saw something missing in the UN
policy, and you simply introduced something you weren't like, oh,
they don't have this. They're not thinking about these things. And
just like, complained about it, which is absolutely acceptable,
because lots of Lot, there are lots of people who can't access
being able to create change, but you chose to do something about
it. Like, what advice would you give to people who see
circumstances where they're just upset and they're frustrated, and,
of course, we're not talking about,
you know, there's absolutely certain types of oppression that
can't You can't just call someone and make a change. Like, that's
very real. But like, when you can actually do something, even if
it's something small, like, based on your experience, what advice
would you give to someone, like, how? How should they even navigate
that? So we have the addita, the Prophet says salam, where that
tells us, if you believe us, you know, see something wrong, you
stop it with your hands, right? If you can't, speak up against it.
And the little thing you can do is feel bad about in your heart. And
I believe, no matter what it is that you come in contact with, you
can do something about it. The listless thing is, you know what
this is happening around me. I feel it's bad,
and that intention alone, or that feeling alone, is good, yes, but
it's better, obviously, if you're able to speak about it right, or
literally change it, like you pick up something from the street
apparently, right? There's a there's a thorn on the street, and
you pick it up, allow rewards you. So the advice is literally the
what you said, Miriam, whatever you can do, do. I saw that, and I
was like, I'm going to write it up again. Very, very, you know, it
was very innocent of me. Affect you and policy this
calls because I'm on my phone. You have little interruption.
Alhamdulillah. So, yeah, so, like, I no matter how small, like, all
these petitions that we see here, I mean, I know that, you know, we
live in an age of, now, there's 2 million petitions a day that you
can sign, but there was a time when, you know, petitions, I mean,
actually, like, like, subhanAllah, even till today, they still are a
thing. Don't get me wrong, right, but we don't want to, you know,
get caught up in only signing petitions. But I think there's
something everybody can do, no matter how small, educate yourself
about a matter, so that when you come across it, you know in your
dealings, or you know this is wrong, because I, I went and read
about it, for example, right? I'm going to change it. I'm going to
speak about it in my little circles of influence, whether it's
with your children, in your family, in your halaka, with your
friends, with your parents, right? We all have circles of influence.
And they go to their own circles of influence too. You know what we
do? This somebody. I was reading something the other day about
living something very simple, living your car, your shopping
cart, you know, not taking it back to the to the story, right, just
living it right there. And it's like, I want to take my shopping
cart back. So if I go out with my nieces and my nephews, I insist
take your shopping cart back to where it belongs. So next time,
when they go out, they think about it, somebody else sees them.
Something even that little literally changes, right? There's
ripple effect. We all know this. You do a little good, and, I mean,
there's so many videos about it, so many studies about this, you do
something good, and it transforms, and it transforms. So again, I
think we all have circles of influence, literally yourself,
your family, plus your kids, your siblings, your parents, and they
have circles of influence too. And somehow we just change things. And
if you have the power mashallah like we do, you can sign
petitions, or everybody now has Alhamdulillah, like what 10 years
ago, nobody had a platform. Now everybody, literally, you have, we
have a platform right here, right on Instagram and Facebook.
Everybody has access to Facebook. Instagram, you can write something
about it. Share your opinions about things. I think the avenues
are enormous. Marian, I think so. But Subhanallah, again, the
listless thing is in your heart, you feel bad about something. You
educate yourself and you know, you know what SubhanAllah. Maybe I
can't change it, but I feel bad about in my heart and with my
intention and fighting against this vice and society, this evil
i.
Subhanallah, there's reward for everything you know.
Alhamdulillah, we all in in Allah's hands. So that's so
beautiful. You focus on you focused on intention and your
circle of influence. I think that's so important. Because when
you look at, even when you look at Maqasid, and there's, there's so
much that talks about the actions that we do, and what is the
thought behind it, and how that's impacting other people and any any
individual, any one of us, can have that type of influence that
can create that ripple change that impacts a generation that we might
not even see right now, but the effect of it is long term. Can you
tell us a little bit? Because we only have, like, eight more
minutes before we have to say goodbye, unfortunately. Um, can
you share with us any reflections, any wisdom, any stories of your
experiences studying Maqasid in the UN whatever experiences that
have you know left a mark on you that you continue to kind of
reflect on, right? So I shared, I think I'll share two things. So
I'll share one on on one of the most phenomenal experiences I've
had at the UN so when we're negotiating, literally, for this
group of sustainable development goals, it was in March, I believe,
of 2015 right? And I just, we just finished Umrah. So from school, we
went to to to Mecca for Umrah, and we literally just traveled, you
know, to New York. From there, I was totally exhausted, so i That's
why I go to New York. We had five years of negotiations, and I
remember that on day one, right? Everybody was there, the people,
the negotiators, as they call them, policy negotiators from
different countries, un Turkey, I mean literally every country,
right? You know the groups, and you have also people like myself,
citizen advocates, right? So we're there, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday. So Monday, everybody was there. Tuesday, the
crowd is less Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. By Friday, there's
probably half of the people in the room. But guess what? It's just
half of the people that are left is their voices that get heard.
You have to stay the course, something my mentor always tells
me, You have to stay the course just because you yelled and
shouted and went on a rally today, it doesn't mean things are going
to change that particular day. You have to pay the course. You have
to continue to the very end, you know? And I just remember the UN
the US negotiator. Each time somebody raised up their hand and
shared something, he came back and rebutted, right? We have this. We
want to reduce emissions by 10% Oh, another thing said 5% from
couple of years ago, and the guy said no, now 7% and they go back
and forth because they're negotiating for their interest,
for what they want, for what they believe in. So if you're not there
till the very end, if you just think this, because I came on day
one and I yelled my voice out, if you're not there on Friday, when
the policies are literally being drafted and there's a period
putting and put things up, your voice may not get heard, right? If
you know what I mean. So sometimes I think we come in the beginning
and we yell and we advocate and we're like, I did a lot, but
sometimes it's just little things, right? Apparently, again, Mariam,
there's something you always share your little actions, right? This
is not in our, in our, in our dean, the little actions that are
consistent have a lot more weight, yes, than one action that is big
and bogus, right? So something that I learned in my experience to
stay the course even. I mean, it's been, what, 11 years since I
introduced a missing Millennium Development Goal way, which is
your insurance of faith, collaboration. If you look at SDG
16, for those who have, you know, who've looked at it, or have the
chance to look at it, it doesn't say what I proposed, but it has
little bits of that in there. There's something about voice,
something about state sponsored terrorism. There are little words
in there. The next agenda we're going to continue negotiating, and
one day we will get, Inshallah, what we want, but it's going to
take what it's been 11 years. Like I said, where a lot of people, and
I'm not the only one, advocating for peace, for interfaith
collaboration. No, there are lots of people, but imagine all our
collective voices over the course of time, yes, being able to do
that. So that's one experience to share. Stay the course, whatever
it is you're fighting for. The second experience I like to share
is I remember one of my most beautiful Arabic teachers, Mrs.
Akram, in Qatar. He, he, he taught me one of the most, I think,
profound lessons in my life. And I like to share it. You know, when
we were going for Umrah at the time, when we were in school, it
was our second. It
was my second Umrah, I think, or the third. And now I forget,
though, and he had mentioned that he went for Hajj. So we were like,
Yeah, I've gone to Umrah three times, and we're all bragging, I
suppose, like, yeah, I've gone x times. I've gone to Hajj and all
of that. And he was like, I've gone once. And he's like, once.
He's like, I can't bear to go again. And I share this, you know,
I want to be very sensitive about what I share, but it's something
that I want to leave with the audience. And he's like, you know,
hamdullah, my worship with all the money that I would take another
time is basically to help young people get married, help people go
to school. So I want to dedicate my funds to that purpose. Why do I
say that? I'm not saying that don't go to Umrah multiple times
or Hajj. I mean, I've been myself. I'm not. I don't want to be a
hypocrite. But the point is, sometimes we look at worshiping
Allah in a very, very singular way or a specific manner, is I'm going
to pray all night long. But there's beauty in helping. Like my
teacher said, my ibada for the for any money I have, I've gone to
hadrons. I've fulfilled my obligation. When I have that money
again, I'm going to support a young couple to get married and
set up their lives. I'm going to pay for someone's education. He
was very dedicated and.
Always reflect and think about that. There are many ways to
worship Allah, right? If you're going to eat a calf as a man, your
wife is at home having children, maybe it's a greater worship to
stay back and help out with the children right now, going to
etikaf. But sometimes we think about these things in very, you
know, very, again, very, very, we're very, we're very, you know,
minute in thinking about it, of our ways of worship, right? So you
can worship Allah in many ways, but really, there's a lot of
worship in service to other people, helping people literally,
right again, don't, don't get me wrong, I contextualize my you
know, my response, what I say now, but it was really something really
profound, and I think about it at times through that. How do you
define worship? Right? In helping other people, there's a lot of
worship. Some of our grandparents, like I mentioned, never literate.
Some of them never, literally, left their little countries where
they are. But they have statuses greater than even the sheik al
haram, right, who prays for all the people that come. They have
great statuses because they they dedicated and sacrificed their
entire lives for their children and their grandchildren. We know
of Of course, of the of the person who's going to go with the pastor
salam to battle the Sahaba and Pastor Sam said, No, stay back
with your mother. More important, what's a greater form of jihad,
right, than going to participate? But the prophet stopped him,
right? So again, there's, there's great worship in service, in
service to family, to friends. So let's rethink when you're not able
to do certain things, like, again, you always share Mariam, the
things you're able to do before you have children. You share this
with us right now, you're not able to do as many things as possible.
And many mothers, there is worship in serving your children, your
family. There's worship in helping out, right? There's worshiping.
It's not only about literally what we think as worship. Again, this
concept of maharia, right? There's an essence to the religion. Yes,
our religion, you know, ibukaya says, and I wanted to share this
in closing, right? The Sharia is founded upon wisdom and welfare
for the servants in this life and the afterlife in its entirety is
justice, mercy, benefit and wisdom. That's what our religion
is all about. Every matter which abandons justice for tyranny,
mercy for cruelty, benefit for corruption and wisdom for
foolishness, is not a part of our Sharia, even if an interpretation
says so. Yes, our religion is about mercy and justice and beauty
and wisdom. When you abandon justice for tyranny, mercy for
cruelty, benefit for corruption and wisdom for foolishness, this
is not part of Islam, regardless of your interpretation. Yes, if
comes down and it oppresses people, it is not Islam. I don't
care where it has come from. This is our understanding, and it's you
don't have to be somebody proficient or magnificent to come
to this our religion is beauty. It has to be Why else are we? Why
else are we Muslims? Why else are we opposing this faith if it's not
bringing us goodness in our life? So suppose that this is what I
would like to close with, this understanding that we have
something beautiful, and we should hang on to it as much as we
possibly can. That quote from is one of the one of the ones that I
haven't I have a forthcoming paper on the Hadith, Allah of a of the
curse of the angels through the night, for for for refusing and
and, you know, the Maqasid takes into account Islamic law. Sharia
takes into account emotional harm, not just physical harm, but
emotional harm and and so that quote is so powerful, because we
know when we learn about Islam, like you said, you know for 20
some years, why? Why aren't we taught about it in this framework,
like all of like, what is the reasoning behind the law? What
about the emotional impact of the rulings and the way that we
interact with people? But Subhan Allah, unless we study it and then
teach it in this framework, we have a generation of people who
don't know, and then just you just feel you know at odds with the
rulings, without under and without understanding who they're coming
from. And once you know who they're coming from, and the
wisdom behind them, becomes so much easier to implement them and
love them absolutely. I mean, Allah is Al Rahman, the Prophet
sallallahu, was sent to the world as rahmatullamin, literally as a
mercy. So why would somebody who's literally defined as a mercy to
mankind bring you anything that's not merciful? Doesn't make any
sense. And we have to be empowered to think in that, in that light
that our religion is literally full of beauty and mercy,
literally regardless of what it looks like, regardless of what the
media says. It's beautiful. Islam is an amazingly beautiful
religion. It's liberating, and we have to embrace that Marshall and
you clearly have Amala, increase you and bless you and raise your
just like in the next if anyone has questions, is there a way that
they can contact you? Obviously, I was an epic film with Instagram,
your first live
session.
I mean, I'm on Facebook. My name is Ajara Bada, and some of the
speakers I mentioned are on YouTube. Please don't make fun of
me when you see them. They were in my 20s
when I mean, I'm on Instagram, I just never do anything with it.
But maybe now I will
message her or message her on Facebook, and her name
is a, can you spell it out so that because so it's a, j, A, R, A, T,
and my last name is Bada, B, A, D, A, that's literally.
It ajarat, Bada, that's me, yeah,
and I are friends. If you have any questions, mashallah man, can help
you. Can definitely connect you with her. Inshallah, Masha, Allah,
it's such an honor to have you. Thank you so much for taking the
time to share your knowledge with us, your experiences with us, the
global policies you actively and continue to actively impact with
us. May Allah bless you and increase you and help us follow in
your footsteps and know at the very a, j, A R, A T is all one
word and then B, A, D, let me, let me try to put it in Yeah, A
J, a
smile, kept T says, she misses us. Oh, hi, Cosma, how
are you wonderful, wonderful, one of the Masha Allah, the most
amazing, inspiring people I met when I first joined mass. Asmaa
cup Larry, with you. Very beautiful girl. Same here, her,
her when I met her at a at a camp, and her sister and Masha Allah,
her, brother, their their whole family are just about May Allah
for sure, really. Bless you. Bless all of our ummah. Thank you so
much for Allah. We will continue offline. Subhanika, lahat, natua,
like Baraka, lo become everyone for coming. Salam, Alaikum,
walaikum, thanks. Marian, bye. Thank you.