Maryam Amir – The End To Hitting Women Islamic Perspectives On Domestic Violence
AI: Summary ©
AI: Transcript ©
As-salamu alaykum everybody.
Thank you for joining us this morning for
Nisa's talk with our beloved lovely Mariam Amir.
We are so honored to have you here
today.
Mariam, jazakallah khair for joining us.
I just wanted to tell you a little
bit about dear Mariam.
She has received her master's in education from
UCLA.
She holds a second bachelor's degree in Islamic
studies through Al-Azhar University.
Mariam has studied in Egypt, memorized the Quran,
and has researched a variety of religious sciences
ranging from Quranic exegesis, Islamic jurisprudence, prophetic narrations,
and commentary, women's rights within Islamic law, and
more for the last past 15 years.
She's featured in a video series on faith
produced by goodcast.net called the Mariam Amir
Show.
She actively hosts and highlights women who have
memorized the Quran from around the world through
the For Mothers campaign.
She is an instructor with Swiss and Hikma
Institutes.
She has been interviewed for her work by
major news outlets including BBC, NPR, and CBS.
Her focus is in the fields of spiritual
connections, identity actualization, social justice, and women's studies
have humbled her the opportunity to lecture throughout
the United States and the world including in
Jerusalem, Mecca, Medina, Stockholm, London, Toronto, and more.
She holds a second degree black belt in
Taekwondo and speaks multiple languages.
Mashallah Mariam, what an honor and blessing and
what an impressive bio.
Mashallah.
Thank you so much for joining us this
morning.
It's my honor.
It's an honor to be here especially with
the incredible organization and all of that what
you do.
Mashallah.
Thank you so much for having me and
for highlighting this important issue.
Bismillah.
I'm just going to let you roll, do
your thing.
One of the questions that I receive most
about women's issues is the verse 434.
The verse that is unfortunately deeply misunderstood from
Muslims and those who are not Muslim who
ask about women's rights especially in the space
of the sanctity of the home.
Oftentimes, verse 434 is translated in a way
in the English translation that is very difficult
to process as a believing woman or as
a believing man who doesn't condone any sort
of domestic violence.
Unfortunately, because there is a misunderstanding on the
translation of this verse at times or the
meaning of this verse, Muslims get confused on
what it could mean.
How do we explain it?
And oftentimes, we hear things like justification such
as, you know, well, it's okay as long
as you don't actually beat someone.
And all of that is so far from
what the Qur'an actually shares with us
in terms of what Allah Subh'anaHu Wa
Ta-A'la prescribes, what God prescribes for
men and women to have a peaceful home
that is filled with tranquility and love and
mercy.
The Qur'an talks about marriage as a
place of love and mercy.
It talks about dwelling with one another in
tranquility.
How does that example of the Prophet Muhammad,
peace be upon him, who had the most
incredible relationships with the mothers of the believers
in every single way, whether it was a
physical, emotional, sexual, intimate relationship, in every single
way, that example was one of joy.
It was one of healing.
It was one in which women were heard.
Where do we understand that ideal for what
it looks like in a marriage when it
comes to this verse?
And what does the Prophet Muhammad, peace be
upon him, teach us when it comes to
the idea of women living in a way
that honors her autonomy, in a way that
honors her individuality in the space of a
partnership of a relationship?
So to begin, let's look at what the
verse actually starts with.
The Qur'an says, And
let me read a translation for you.
Men are the caretakers of women, as men
have been provisioned by God over women and
tasked with supporting them financially.
And righteous women are devoutly obedient and, when
alone, protective of what God has entrusted them
with.
And if you sense ill conduct from your
woman, advise them first.
If they persist, do not share their bed.
But if they still persist, then discipline them
gently.
But if they change their ways, do not
be unjust to them.
Surely God is most high, all great.
Now, without context, without commentary to understand the
meaning of what every single part of that
long verse means, it can cause a person
a pause.
So let's talk about what most of the
parts mean, only because every part would take
hours.
So we're going to take some of the
ones that generally cause the most confusion.
The beginning, that men are caretakers of women.
The verse is using the word qawwam.
Qawwam can be used for men or for
women.
For example, in another part of the Qur
'an, there are two different verses in which
Allah says, And
the verse continues.
And there's another ayah very similar to it
with slightly different words, but also using the
word qawwam.
And that is standing up for justice.
Be persistently standing up for justice.
So we know that the word qawwam is
included with this idea of standing up of
someone who strengthens, strengthens something.
Raghib al-Isfahani, who was a scholar of
our past, mentions that qawwam in this verse
is talking about a protector, a strengthener, someone
who gives support.
And that's the same thing that Ibn Ashur
mentioned, someone who stands by and supports something.
And specifically for men, al-Qurtubi mentioned that
men provide alimony for women and defend them.
So when we're looking at the beginning part
of this verse, some scholars believe that it
means that all men are qawwam for all
women.
All men are supporters, defenders, caretakers of all
women.
Other scholars like al-Qurtubi, for example, mentions
that it's specifically for husbands and wives.
That this verse isn't talking about all men
and all women, but specifically in the role
of marriage, considering the context of the verse,
that it means that husbands are financial, emotional,
caretakers, supporters of wives.
Why?
Now, in order to understand all the other
parts of this part of the verse, we
actually need to do a tafsir of different
verses.
Because in order to get, bima thadhalallahu ballahum
ala bald, we have to look at a
verse, two verses before.
So we're not going to do that today,
just because we don't have the time, but
we're going to go to the next part,
which is, wabima anfaqu min amwalihim.
And in order to understand this part, we
actually still need to take another verse.
And that is the end part of an
ayah in Surah Al-Baqarah, where Allah says,
walirrijali AAalayhina daraja.
So upon men, so over women, men have
another degree.
What is that other degree?
What does daraja mean?
They have another level?
They have another degree of responsibility towards women.
What is that responsibility?
Ibn Abbas mentions in what men give to
women in the mahr and in financial provision.
And this is super important to remember when
we talk about this part, wabima anfaqu min
amwalihim, and what they give out of their
wealth.
So the Quran says in verse 434, that
men are qawam over women.
Why?
One of the reasons is because of what
they give to women over their wealth.
Now, one of the problems, not problems, but
a structural issue when we're looking at marriages,
where men are solely responsible for the finances,
when it comes to domestic violence, is that
women are completely reliant on her husband for
her sustenance, for her shelter, for her food,
for her clothing, for that of her children's.
If she is in a emotional, physical, sexually
dangerous place, and she's being harmed, she often
has to choose between having nowhere to go
or staying and continuing to experience the harm.
And especially if she has children, leaving that
situation with nowhere to go, especially when I've
had women come to me and tell me
that their own families do not want them
back, because a divorce is such a big
stigma in their culture.
And that's not something we see during the
time of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
him.
The companions of the Prophet, peace be upon
him, would get divorced simply because they didn't
get along with their spouse, just because they
were not emotionally compatible, just because they didn't
really feel like they loved each other.
Which of course, that's not to say we
shouldn't encourage therapy and we shouldn't encourage support
systems, but the point is it wasn't a
stigma.
Companions of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
him, would get married, divorced, widowed, and remarried.
And that was the case of Asma bint
Umayyad, who was a huge companion, radiyallahu anha,
who when Umar radiyallahu anhu went in and
saw that she was sitting with Hafsa, his
daughter, radiyallahu anhum, and he was like, who
is this?
Hafsa, and Hafsa was, and then he realized,
oh, she's the woman who came with the
ship, because she migrated from Mecca to Abyssinia,
and then she migrated from Abyssinia to Mecca,
I mean, excuse me, to Medina.
And Umar radiyallahu anhu told her that we
got here first, we migrated with the Prophet
Muhammad, peace be upon him, before you did.
And that's not his exact statement, but his
point was that we have more of a
right to the Prophet than you do, peace
be upon him.
And she is looking at Umar radiyallahu anhu,
who is physically a very large man, who
is guaranteed paradise, who is a commander, who
becomes the khalifa of the Muslims.
And yet she doesn't say, oh, I shouldn't
say anything back because he is a man.
She doesn't say, I shouldn't say anything back
because he is so pious.
She is upset that he implied that they
do not have as much of a right
to the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam.
And so when she got upset, she said
that she was, you, Umar radiyallahu anhu, and
your companions were with the Prophet salallahu alayhi
wasalam while we were far, while we were
hungry, while he salallahu alayhi wasalam mentored the
companions, and he provided with the companions, and
they didn't get all of that.
So she went to the Prophet peace be
upon him, and she told him what Umar
radiyallahu anhu said, and the Prophet peace be
upon him replied with that Umar radiyallahu anhu
and his companions do not have more of
a right over the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam,
that the people of the ship, the Asma
and the people of the ship, they migrated
twice, and Umar radiyallahu anhu and his companions
only migrated once.
So the people of the ship have double
the reward.
The people who migrated with Asma have double
the reward of the migration.
And so because of her agency of voice,
her voicing, how she felt, not only was
Umar radiyallahu anhu taught, but the policy, the
way that people interacted with these companions shifted,
and Abu Musa al-Ash'ari, a great
companion, would come over and over to Asma
radiyallahu anhu asking to narrate this hadith again
and again.
But Asma radiyallahu anhu, first she was married,
and then when her husband was killed in
battle, she got married again to Abu Bakr
radiyallahu anhu, and she was there as Abu
Bakr radiyallahu anhu was, you know, sick as
he was dying, she was taking care of
him.
And when Abu Bakr radiyallahu anhu passed away,
she then later got married to Ali radiyallahu
anhu.
The point is that the companions didn't see
a woman who was widowed or divorced as
some sort of stigma.
It wasn't part of that culture, the Islamic
culture.
Unfortunately, in many Muslim majority cultures, it is
a stigma today, so much so that women
stay in marriages even when they are physically,
emotionally being harmed.
Now what this means in terms of a,
why this is important in terms of being,
men being financial providers, is because of this.
Number one, why does Allah give men that
responsibility?
Women have the incredible gift that Allah has
given women the power and the vulnerability of
bringing new life into the world.
This is something that only women are honored
with.
Now many women are never going to become
mothers, many women struggle with infertility, many women
don't want to be mothers, but we're talking
about Islam addresses societal structures.
In a societal structure, women who especially choose
to become pregnant, who especially are finding themselves
pregnant in a marriage, and are now looking
at the fact that they may not be
able to work as they used to.
Maybe they've already spoken, let's say a couple
speaks to get married, they choose that they're
both going to be working, and that's something
that they decide.
Both the man and that woman both want
to work in their marriage, totally fine.
Still, her money is her money.
If she chooses to give part of that
money to the marital home, then that's sadaqah
from her, that's charity from her, and in
some of the madhhabs, she can also put
in a contract where he has to pay
her back at some point, so that she
can receive the money back even if she
gives it.
So let's say they get married and they
decide that they both want to contribute to
the household, but then she gets pregnant, and
she is finding herself unable to physically work
and be pregnant at the same time.
Many women can work and be pregnant at
the same time, no problem, that's awesome.
But many can't.
They have high-risk pregnancies, they have severe
morning sickness, whatever the reason, maybe she chooses
after she gives birth that she wants to
stay home and be with her baby.
She doesn't have to choose that from an
Islamic perspective.
She doesn't have to, she and her husband
can agree to what they would like to
do together.
But let's say that's what she wants to
do, and that's what she and her husband
have agreed upon.
Now, she is not required to have to
work so that she can take care of
herself when she's pregnant.
She can take care of the baby when
she has the baby.
She can choose to take care of her
children if she wants to.
Again, this goes back to their relationship, and
they have a conversation about what their home
is going to look like.
But this provision of the husband being financially
responsible gives her the option on what she's
going to do when she's going through that
process.
Now, we're talking about a husband who is
not a Nash's husband, who we're going to
talk about in a second.
We're talking about a husband who is supportive,
who is financially caring.
The reason for the mahr, as Ibn Abbas
mentioned, one of the reasons is to make
sure that a woman has her own financial
safety plan.
When you look at the concept of the
mahr, a lot of times, many cultures see
it as something symbolic.
Oh, a mushaf, a copy of the Quran,
a jar of honey to sweeten our relationship.
Some look at it as a symbolic gesture.
Others look at it as something that's culturally
seen as, you know, women in this culture
typically ask for $10,000 or $20,000.
It's a typical number that the culture accepts.
And sometimes you hear comments like, oh, that
family is so, you know, it's like they're,
it's so expensive to marry into their family.
Their daughters ask for such a great mahr.
But regardless of what the culture says about
the mahr from an Islamic standpoint, the mahr
has ways to be given so that it
provides financial stability for a woman in marriage
so she has her own money and also
out of marriage in case there is a
divorce.
So for example, she can choose to say
she wants, I'm going to put up a
random number of $10,000.
So let's say she says 10,000 and
a husband and a wife are right now
just out of college.
He doesn't have $10,000 to his name,
but she can ask for a muqaddam and
a muakhar, which means beforehand, before they get
married, she can ask for $100 with the
promise that every month she's going to be
receiving a certain amount of money from that
mahr, that marriage gift, until the next however
many years that they're able to fulfill the
contract.
If he divorces his wife, this mahr becomes
a debt that he owes her.
So even in the case of a fask,
which is, for example, if a woman is
experiencing domestic violence, she can receive a fask,
which is the dissolution of her marriage.
It is a debt that he needs to
pay her that money.
So she is not ever financially completely dependent
on his mercy when there is a situation
that he is not fulfilling his due.
Also in terms of the mahr, beyond the
mahr, some scholars talk about her being able
to, let's say she chooses that she doesn't
want to work.
She wants to be a housewife.
She wants to be a stay at home
mom.
That's her choice.
That's what she wants to do before they
get married, they make that decision.
She can sign a contract with her husband,
some of the scholars say, for asking that
her cooking and her cleaning, which is not
considered a requirement by many scholars that she
has to do in the marriage, that she
can be paid for these acts.
So the point is that even a woman
who is a housewife and a stay at
home mom has her own financial pocket that
if she's in a situation where she is
no longer safe in her marriage and she
doesn't have her family to go back to,
she has her own money that she's not
dependent on anyone else for.
Now, of course, the right Islamic marriage with
a husband correctly acting appropriately is taking care
of his family.
Even after a divorce, taking care of making
sure that his children have everything that they
need, but that's not the reality of our
communities.
And in an Islamic system, she should have
either her father or her brother, which she
doesn't always have to support her.
And in that case, the Islamic court system
is supposed to provide for her from the
treasury.
That doesn't always, that's not realistic, not in
America, not in so many places that we
live in.
So that's why it's so important for us
talking about our reality to know from an
Islamic standpoint, she has the right to have
her own money that she receives even as
a housewife for cooking and cleaning for breastfeeding
her own child.
These are all ways that she can receive
financial support for financial independence for.
And also when looking at this, women should
invest that money.
Dr. Tamara Gray, the sheikha who founded Robalta,
she talks about a woman that she knew
in Syria who took the mahr money that
she received and she invested it in buying
a taxi and hiring a driver.
And so every month he made money as
the driver and she received an amount.
And so that mahr that started as a
certain amount only grew in expanse.
So being able to equip women in our
communities to know that when you go into
a marriage, of course, we pray that it's
so wonderfully financially secure, but also from an
Islamic perspective, you have these rights so that
you know that you have a den of
money.
And that could simply be because you want
to keep giving in charity.
It could be because you want to buy
extra things that go beyond the family budget,
but it's so that you know that you
have something for yourself.
Now, in addition to having this discussion on
finances, it's important to talk about what kind
of a husband the Islamic marriage paints, because
when we look at the Prophet Muhammad, peace
be upon him, who, of course, was not
by any means prosperous financially.
The mothers of the believers lived very frugally.
The Prophet, peace be upon him, was so
hungry that he put rocks on his stomach.
So we're not talking about the ideal man
having, you know, billions of dollars living in
the Bay Area.
We know that two income households are essential
for the most families in the Bay, and
for many cities all around the world.
And Islam has conversations on what that looks
like, even that situation in marriages.
I'm going to close that section on finances
only because there are other parts of the
verse to get to.
But the point is that a husband isn't
required to provide lavishly unless, actually, I'm not
going to get into that.
Sorry, that's a different discussion too.
There are discussions on that in fiqh as
well.
But the point is that, of course, we
hope that a husband and a wife live
together with love and in harmony.
But there are going to be cases in
which that's not realistic, and Islam addresses that.
So the next part of the verse talks
about different qualities of a wife.
And the scholars debate whether this is qualities
that she shows to Allah, or if this
is qualities that she shows to her husband.
But after that section, which we don't have
time to get into, we're going to get
into nushus.
What is nushus?
This part of the verse is connected with
darb.
Darb is often translated as beat, or strike
lightly.
So who is this talking about?
A woman who commits nushus.
Those you are certain, those you are absolutely
certain have committed nushus.
What is nushus?
Let's talk about what the scholars say, what
nushus is from the husband to the wife.
Because it will make more clear what is
nushus from the wife to the husband.
So Ibn Abidin and many other scholars from
all of the madhhabs say different things.
They say cursing her, if a husband curses
his wife, if he verbally abuses her for
the smallest of reasons, if he avoids being
intimate with her for no reason when she
wants intimacy, making her life difficult with regards
to food and drink and clothing, showing a
lack of respect and joking on her expense,
backbiting her, making fun of her, taking a
trip for fun without consulting with her first
because it impacts her, hating her and making
life difficult for her, boycotting her, irritating her,
abusing her, not speaking to her, turning his
back to her in bed and obviously in
any way physically harming her.
So we can see that from the malikis
to the shakiris to the hanbalis to the
hanafis, all of them have different interpretations of
what a man who is considered nushus does
to his wife in ways that harm her.
And that can range from hating her to
being emotionally or physically or sexually abusive to
her.
It's very important to mention verbally.
I hope that maybe we caught on to
how many times they said making fun of
her, boy backbiting against her.
Those are considered acts of her husband harming
her.
Islamic law doesn't just take into account physical
harm.
It also takes into account emotional harm.
So when the prophet Muhammad peace be upon
him says that there's no harm and there's
no reciprocation of harm, there are so many
examples of that meaning and including emotional harm.
Sometimes women say, oh it's not that bad.
He doesn't hit me.
Oh it's not that bad.
He's not, you know, subhanAllah, actively physically harming
her.
But emotional harm is great.
That's psychologically damaging.
Children see that and they grow up thinking
that that's normal and that's far from acceptable
from an Islamic standpoint.
So when we see what the husband looks
like when he's committing nushuz, now let's look
at the verse when it talks about a
woman committing nushuz.
This means that from Imam al-Shafi'i,
he explains that when she is committing nushuz,
it means it's not in retaliation to him
doing something to her.
Many times in a marriage, a husband does
something, a wife reacts.
A wife does something, a husband reacts.
The wife does something, the husband is upset,
he reacts.
The husband does something, the wife is upset,
she reacts.
It's a constant reaction to something someone did
and that's the general feeling in the house.
You don't feel the type of tranquility that
the Quran talks about.
This is not nushuz.
Imam al-Shafi'i says a woman who
does something in a marriage, not in retaliation
to something her husband has done, and she
wants to stay in this marriage because again,
divorce is always an option.
She can ask for a khalaq, which is
her asking for divorce.
So, it's not because she doesn't want to
stay in the marriage.
She wants to stay in the marriage and
it's not in retaliation to him, but she
does different actions that cause harm and threatens
their marital space.
Now, when that happens, the Quran provides three
options on what to do.
It's a step-by-step process, but first,
in order to understand that process, we have
to go to the context in where this
verse was revealed.
This verse was revealed in, as we know,
the society of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be
upon him, in which women were from a
culture that used to be buried alive.
Baby girls would be born and they would
be buried by their own fathers with the
consent at times of their mothers.
We're looking at a society in which women
were married 20 to 30 women at a
time to one man in a culture in
which women were inherited like property because they
were seen as property.
Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, said
that we used to think of women as
absolutely nothing until what Allah revealed of what
he revealed and divided what he divided.
So, we're talking about a society which literally
saw women as nothing and in this society,
we know that darb and in this context,
which I'm going to say, which was an
actual physical beating, was seen as not simply
acceptable because Ibn Ashur, who is a commentator
of the Quran and a fiqh, he talks
about a woman in this time period saw
hitting physical domestic violence as acceptable.
Obviously, when you're from a culture that sees
you as property, you would look at it
as acceptable but also we need to realize
that it wasn't simply acceptable.
It was seen as manly.
It was seen as chivalrous.
How do we know that?
Because we look at Arabic poetry before the
Quran was revealed and in Arabic poetry before
the Quran was revealed, we have the story
of a mother who's giving advice to her
daughter and she's saying that you are going
to get married, go into your new marital
home, take the weapons of your husband, break
them in half, throw them all over the
floor and see what his reaction is.
If he does not physically beat you for
breaking all of his weapons and throwing them
on the floor, his tools of manhood, then
he is not going to defend you.
Do you see how this mother saw it
to her daughter that if he doesn't physically
beat you for challenging his manhood, then he's
not going to defend you outside of his
own home?
So the way that they saw this was
a sign of a husband having this prowess
not only to defend internally the home but
as well as externally.
So what does the Quran do?
The Quran comes and limits and gets rid
of domestic violence.
How so?
Looking at a society in which even women
saw this as something chivalrous to those women,
especially particularly amongst the Bedouins Ibn Ashur mentions.
The Quran comes and gives guidelines on what
needs to be done before even enacting the
concept of darb and we're going to get
to what that means.
The first one is that a husband needs
to communicate to his wife how he is
feeling.
The first one is that they speak to
one another.
Now Ibn Kathir who is a great commentator
of the Quran, he mentions that a husband
and a wife must live with one another
in mawadda and rahma as a every wedding
card mentions.
Mawadda is not, I mean love of course
it is love but it's not just love,
it's active love, it's love in action.
Mawadda actually means actively showing love.
The five love languages which are so famous,
it is actively showing love through every sort
of love language.
Mawadda is active love and Ibn Kathir mentions
that if he's not going to live with
her in love then at least it needs
to be in mercy because there are going
to be times that a continues to live
together even when they hate each other but
it needs to be done with mercy.
That life together needs to be with mercy.
So scholars mention that the first part of
responding to the act of nushuz from a
husband to a wife is by talking to
her with gentleness, not yelling at her, not
screaming at her, not cursing her, saying I
have seen you do such and such a
wrong and can you please stop.
So literally mentioning the exact issue and asking
her to stop.
Now if that doesn't work it goes on
to the next step and the next step
is that he's supposed to leave the marital
bed.
Now many couples already are not intimate with
one another so that could be a relief
to her but the point is that it's
supposed to move from communicating and that takes
time.
It's not I tried this in the morning
and by the evening he's going to turn
away in bed.
It takes time which means the anger, the
hurt, the frustration by this time unless it's
an act that is continually happening it should
have calmed down.
The second step is walking away from the
marital bed.
Again by this time it should have calmed
down but let's say it hasn't.
Let's say it's persisting.
What is the third point?
This is darb.
Now darb is understood by scholars in two
different ways.
Some look at it as a physical action
and others look at it as an emotional
reaction.
So the physical action of darb has so
many different meanings in Arabic.
It could mean to travel or to depart.
It could mean to block or to prevent.
It can mean to neglect and to abandon.
It could to make truth and falsehood evident
and distinguishable.
It can mean to cut or to strike
or to slash or to slap.
It could be to separate and even more.
So darb itself has so many different meanings.
Now the scholars who look at darb and
say it's a physical meaning restricting the concept
of darb in the society that it was
revealed in talk about the conditions for and
this is very triggering to talk about for
anyone who is involved with any sort of
work or who has experienced domestic violence because
even with the conditions which mean it cannot
leave a mark.
It cannot be on the face.
It cannot leave a bruise or a red
mark.
It cannot cut.
The scholars like Ibn Abbas for example he
took a shoelace and he went like this
or a miswak.
Other scholars say the end of a garment
is what is supposed to be used to
do darb.
Other scholars say to take a a pack
of wadded up napkins and that's what darb
is.
So if you take the end of a
garment or a pack of wadded up napkins
and you take that and you hit someone
or yourself it's not painful when you do
this but it's still emotionally humiliating.
It's still hurtful.
Just the concept of it can be harmful
and that is why scholars say that if
this even with all these conditions even if
it's symbolic even using the end of a
garment or a bunch of napkins even if
that could be emotionally humiliating it could embarrass
her.
It could cause her not to want to
come back to the relationship because this verse
is meant to between spouses.
The purpose of the verse the objective is
reconciliation.
How do we know that?
Because this is a woman who is not
reacting to her husband who wants to stay
in her marriage but is doing something which
we didn't talk about actually all the conditions
of what nushuz is because it can range
for so many different things but the point
and I'm so sorry just because we're this
is just like a truncated version of the
tafsir but the point is that this is
a marriage they both want to stay in.
They want to reconcile between one another.
We tried communication.
We tried a symbolic gesture of leaving the
bed.
Now even if there's a symbolic gesture so
many different scholars like Sheikh Jamal Suleiman.
There are so many scholars of our past
who said even if emotionally it would harm
her this symbolic act it is haram to
use.
It is prohibited.
It is prohibited.
It is haram to use this part of
the verse if it doesn't make a woman
feel like she wants to reconcile with her
husband.
Now Ibn Ashur again the scholar that we
mentioned earlier he says that sometimes in some
societies men are not going to have spiritual
connections with God.
They are not going to have physical restraint.
They are going to see this verse and
they are going to say that it gives
them the right to hit their wife without
thinking about all of the commentary we just
discussed and in that case the authorities must
make an edict that no man is allowed
to use this verse because men will not
have the ability to discern how they can
use it in a way that reconciles between
their family versus doing it out of anger
because darb out of anger is haram.
Darb out of emotional frustration is haram.
It's supposed to be a tool of reconciliation
which in our context might not make any
sense but the Quran is forever.
It made sense in their culture.
It might make sense in another culture that
exists right now in our time.
It might make sense in a culture 500
years from now.
The Quran is forever but if it doesn't
make sense to our context to our family
unit scholars have said it is impermissible to
use because the point is reconciliation.
If it's not going to bring a couple
back together it is not permissible to use
this part of the verse.
Now even saying all of that a Dasuki
who is a Maliki judge from like hundreds
of years ago he had cases of women
who would come to him complaining of domestic
violence and what he would issue is that
the husband of this relationship would be physically
beaten because of him physically beating his wife
so the retribution was to physically assault the
husband to realize the pain that he has
caused his wife and of course a woman
has the right for a fuss.
She's already in front of a judge.
She has the right to ask for the
dissolution of a marriage and in that case
that the even if she doesn't have the
financial support of whether it's the ex-husband
or the family to provide for her in
whatever the situation is it's always situational then
there's always the court who can require that
she has a stipulated amount of wealth that
she's given so she's not financially left alone
but the point is even if this ayah
is looked at as a a symbolic tab
even if it's an emotional even if it
causes emotional wounds it's not allowed to be
used and the other understanding of this verse
is from Ata Ibn Abi Rabah who is
one of the foremost scholars of the Tabi
'in who came right after the companions and
he is a student of Ibn Abbas who
was considered the commentator of the Quran of
the companions and he mentions that this verse
is not to be understood physically because the
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him as Aisha
mentioned never harmed a woman.
He never hit a woman.
He never hit a servant.
The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam said by what
right does one of you hit your wife?
By what right?
The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam never hit a
woman.
He never sanctioned for marriages.
The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam did not appreciate
for marriages to look like this and he
said that the best of men are not
like this and these are just summarizing the
ahadith.
So this is not from the example of
the Prophet peace be upon him.
So Ata's understanding of this verse is not
a physical one.
It's that it means to show that he's
angry by expressing his emotional anger and to
separate himself to walk away to separate himself
from his spouse and finally the end of
this ayah ends with Allah mentions two of
his names that he is the most high
and all great.
Why?
Ibn Kathir mentions that Allah ends this verse
with these two names.
He is the most high.
He is higher than anyone who chooses to
abuse their partner because abuse is not about
her doing something wrong.
It's not about her messing up.
It's about power and control.
It is an abuse of power and control
and so when a man feels himself so
high and mighty who is higher than him?
Allah.
When it's about power and control who has
more power and control?
Allah.
Who is greater than this man?
It is Allah.
So Allah is the most high and the
all great and in that context Ibn Kathir
the commentator of the Quran mentions it means
that Allah is the wali of women.
Allah is the one who supports women.
Allah is the one who's got the back
of women.
This is a threat.
It is Allah threatening men that if they
use this concept in a way that harms
the relationship that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala
is on the side of women and note
that when we're talking about this ayah there
are verses of the Quran like pray, establish
prayer, give zakah, go for hajj.
They are rulings.
They are religious rulings that must be implemented.
This verse is not a legal ruling.
It is a cultural ruling.
There are verses of the Quran that are
not legal but they are cultural.
What does that mean?
It means that women can put in their
contract that they do not want someone to
implement a particular type, something.
The next verse, I believe it's the verse
immediately after this, yes, that Allah subhanahu wa
ta'ala says to bring people from both
parties of their families or other people who
can kind of be mediators, who can be
you know therapy, go to therapy, find people
in your family who can support you to
process your pain, go to professionals.
The Quran literally talks about different forms of
mediation in the verse immediately after this but
we look at the example of Atika she
was the wife of Umar.
When she got married to Umar she stipulated
in her marriage contract that he could not
physically harm her and then after he passed
away she got married to a Zubair she
put in her contract to Zubair that he
cannot physically harm her.
If this verse was about physical harm can
you put in your contract something that goes
against the Quran?
No.
So that means this verse isn't about physically
harming someone because women amongst the prophet peace
be upon him themselves put in their contract
it is not permissible to harm me in
their marriage contract itself.
So when we look at the whole system
of Islamic law there are so many ways
in which women are supposed to be cared
for, supported, that woman can choose if she
wants to work or stay home and be
with her children and she has the support
to do that but if God forbid there's
ever a situation whereas woman have approached me
and told me that her husband has put
a knife to her neck and she went
to her local imam and he said go
home and pray and be patient and try
to seduce him.
I was sick to my stomach hearing this
because unfortunately so many of our amazing individuals
and religious leadership have been trained in different
areas of fiqh but not in this one
and that's why it's so important to realize
when you talk to a scholar and they
are not able to give you 700 interpretations
of what something means maybe that's not their
field.
Maybe their field is in the fiqh of
something else.
Maybe their focus has been in a different
part of Islamic law.
Islamic law is enormous.
We have lawyers or immigration lawyers.
We have lawyers for companies.
We have lawyers for everything.
Islamic law has fields in every part.
So when we hear people of knowledge maybe
making a statement that sounds terrifying maybe that's
not their field or maybe they're quoting someone
who held that particular opinion but there are
scholars who have so many opinions that reflect
the axioms of Islamic law which are the
sanctity of life, the sanctity of intelligence, the
sanctity, the preservation of family, of faith, of
so many different parts of an individual's being
because Islamic law cares for our physical self,
our mental self, our intimate selves and our
spiritual selves and that's why a verse like
this is intended to bring peace to a
family and if ever not seen like that
then remember the next verse which are different
ways for a family to come back together
with the support of other people and I
know that we have inshallah dedicated a little
bit of time for questioning so I'm going
to end here.
Such a beautiful insightful overview of verse 434
subhanallah and just mashallah how much protection we
get you know with the physical the emotional
the you've just kind of nailed it but
unfortunately in the reality of things and this
is kind of why Nisa exists is because
of course it's just ignored most of the
time you know that's the reality of the
situation but of course subhanallah the Quran is
a blueprint for us and we know that
we are protected in every possible way.
You mentioned mashallah you've pretty much covered everything
that I could possibly have thought of asking
you but in the last few moments you've
just mentioned sabr this is something that comes
up very often what does it mean to
be patient like you said many people will
just send people women away and say you
know be patient it will be okay just
just sit back and Allah is there for
you right right just be patient with the
situation and it will get better for you
what does it mean to have sabr and
how can we proactively have that patience patience
is not allowing someone to beat you or
to physically and emotionally consistently neglect and harm
you and then making dua and then wondering
why Allah isn't answering your dua many times
when we tell women just pray harder they
don't wonder what's wrong with their situation and
what change they should make of course it's
already very difficult to be in that situation
many times they have they have experienced years
of psychological trauma sometimes they come from backgrounds
where maybe that was the reality of their
family and now they're going through it with
their own nuclear their their own husband and
their new nuclear family and so when they're
told to be patient and pray they're wondering
why isn't Allah listening to me they start
questioning why are my duas not being answered
is it because I'm not a good enough
believer she's not a good enough believer as
she's being beat as she's being psychologically constantly
being told that she's all of these disgusting
things that she's been told and and it's
because Allah's not answering her no it's because
when we make dua we also need to
take action and it is very hard to
tell a survivor a victim that you need
to take action and we shouldn't have to
put it on her to be the one
to take action because it shouldn't be happening
in the first place but the reality is
that when someone comes to us and they
tell us I mean subhanAllah when they tell
us that they're going through this us telling
them be patient is never the answer ever
we should never say you need to be
patient what we should say is how can
we support you by giving you all of
these resources here is Nessa's hotline here are
all the other resources that you can have
and my my response to you is how
can I be patient me as a supporter
of you in helping you explore your options
so that we can figure out what is
the best path for you to take of
course we need to take into account the
fact that there may be children in the
home and I've had women who are being
physically beaten regularly who are hiding in the
bathroom so that her husband doesn't harm her
these are so real I hear from cases
like this a woman who have approached one
person after another who are simply told to
hold on hold on for what for the
sake of their children for the sake of
their children not to have a home this
is not a broken home you being physically
beat your children being physically beat is not
a broken home for them to see that
their their their their father that this is
acceptable that they deserve this what we need
to do as a community and as a
community we need to have patience as we
change the structures of our community so that
when we have khutbas when we have regular
community discussions when we overemphasize with you know
of course modesty is so important in our
religion but the obsession over hijab we need
to have patience in changing that narrative so
we are obsessed over ensuring that women and
men are not ever in a position when
they are victims of domestic violence and we
know that even men are victims of domestic
violence in our own community we know that
boys are are victims of sexual abuse in
our own community and they can't tell anyone
because they are men and so when we
change that culture for our entire community and
we have patience through that change then we
can create a community which honors men and
women who are going through this which honors
the children who are going through this and
who can support them through this process so
I recommend for a person whoever is told
to be patient to turn that question back
around and to ask them are you going
to be patient while you are beaten would
you be patient and what would you what
would you do because really no woman no
man no child should ever be in a
situation where they are told to be patient
for being beaten that is absolutely unacceptable in
islamic law it is unacceptable in in american
law it is simply unacceptable in front of
allah thank you mariam i appreciate that um
we have a question in the chat box
actually from sahar who is our program manager
i don't know if you're able to see
it um of course she says um we
i mean we greatly appreciate you clearly describing
the rights and responsibilities of couples especially of
course um you know husbands and wives and
and how surah 434 talks about and outlines
um the family relations in particular the relationship
of a husband and wife like you had
um mentioned in the event that these guidelines
are not followed which is unfortunately the case
in so many so many and this is
of course when nisa comes in what resources
and are available for women to obtain support
from the muslim leadership with matters of divorce
um children financial support and she's obviously been
with nisa for since 2006 um and we
do find it very difficult to leverage in
the right resources um when we are in
in you know in cases of domestic violence
unfortunately as of course as you're seeing the
visibility of nisa is growing so are the
needs um they've always been there of course
we've got those women subhanallah who are brave
enough to leave the home and and and
you know we we keep them in the
shelters or you know they're able to kind
of lead that situation but many the majority
do not like you said they hide in
bathrooms they still endure the pain the suffering
um so you know just kind of brainstorming
almost like of course we want to be
more visible we want people to know that
this place exists nisa does exist but how
can we even make it more accessible um
of course leveraging in more professional support because
this is not just for people who want
to do good in an organization we really
do like you said have the right kind
of support for these women and children in
particular like you said subhanallah our resources are
now we are you know reaching out to
those children as well we're trying to support
them in the best possible way that we
can um but in an ideal situation or
what would you recommend what would you suggest
mariam it's you know one of the challenges
is that everything is being built from the
ground up right now and the ground for
the muslim community often looks like spaces where
women are not even necessarily welcome into the
masjid or if they are welcome into the
masjid they are afterthoughts there are masajid many
masajid where mashallah they have you know large
women's sections and they have facilities for women
to be supported but their needs are not
reflected on the board composition and even having
women on board positions their voice is not
often held with as much weight as the
men's voice on those boards and so that
of course impacts the policy of the which
creates community culture when we have policies we
create culture when our culture is not reflective
of the needs of the attendees of the
masjid space of the muslim community when we
are not able to come to the masjid
when we are going through the millions of
things that young people go through right now
from depression to suicide attempts to struggling with
their identity in every single way to being
abused by their own family members there are
a million a million struggles that young people
face that woman face that men face in
our community that are not being reflected in
the khutbas which are consistently recycling the same
things a lot of times when they come
to women they often have to do with
the importance of modesty marriage and motherhood which
are so beautiful and so wonderful and so
important but literally not everything that a woman
goes through and so when that is the
community narrative it does become so much more
difficult to include conversations on domestic violence because
it's seen like the exception and not the
rule and we pray that it's the exception
and not the rule but the problem is
even when it's the exception we don't have
systems of accountability to to support the process
so without the systems of accountability in place
because there isn't an urgency felt because it's
not reflected in even the most basic day
weekly conversation of the muslim community then where
do we expect how do we expect like
the khalil center or peaceful families project or
amal's shelter or um maristan with dr rania
what's uh mental health program like organization all
of these programs are seen as resources instead
of pillars and what we need to do
is shift the way we have these conversations
so that they are literally pillars that as
we you know financially support masajid we hold
masajid accountable and we ask them how are
these organizations integrated into your masjid that this
donation to this masjid actually is conditioned upon
this organization receiving this much starlight spotlight focus
in this many khutbas a year in this
many programs a year the point is that
right now we don't live in the islamic
law system where we have judges and we
have courts and we have places we have
organizations we have the police and we have
organizations for the muslim community and the police
is a very difficult just different discussion completely
because of course then we have to talk
about all of the realities of power and
oppression and race and that impacts black muslims
in our community it impacts so many muslims
in our community so on one hand we
have as a um a structure in islamic
law which is supposed to support these things
but we don't have that so we have
organizations to rely on and we are not
supporting our organizations because they're simply an organization
to go to for support versus they need
to be part of the pillar of the
community and in order to do that we
have to shift the way that we look
at the function of the masjid and the
community in general which again goes back to
subuh that's a very long process and i
wish that i had more of an answer
to that but no that's you know that's
that's beautiful mariam honestly that's very um it's
very valid what you've just said and absolutely
just collaborating more with these organizations that are
set up there's definitely more than you know
um it's more than an amazing start to
do that and we are definitely doing a
lot more outreach and connecting more to professionals
who can help in these situations but absolutely
the um the dialogue needs to be um
a lot more um current we need to
you know speak at the community level speak
with masajids and alhamdulillah we have been pushing
for that more there's more outreach um there's
definitely a need for it but alhamdulillah you
know it's not like i said it's not
a problem that just exists with within a
certain community it's a global issue it's something
that you know affects women and men like
you said and children and on on some
level and um like i said yes i'm
sorry can i just uh ask a follow
-up question um salam alaikum this is saha
uh so i you know i what i
i i think what um what i usually
look for and this is where i i
get stuck is when uh when i have
a client who's seeking support filing for an
islamic divorce and when she you know reaches
out to the resources that are available there's
a lot of you know i guess dismissing
of the dv and and and i've had
a few clients who really you know devastated
by the process of how difficult it was
um to obtain that so i guess i
wanted to know do you know of any
you know any organization resource that i would
be able to refer refer these ladies to
who will have an understanding of dv and
help them file for an islamic divorce currently
i actually have two three clients who are
actually searching for that though the only organizations
that i personally know of um are are
your organization and ml's um ml's shelter um
as well as the peaceful families project and
maristan khalil center those are the only ones
that i know of and i know that
many of them work with imams and they
work with sheikhas so that they're able to
um help facilitate the process of course um
uh swiss which is sohebweb.com imam sohebweb
used to be the imam of um the
mca and uh mashallah you know these are
these are imams who are on the forefront
of supporting women and helping them process issues
like this um and and hamdallah that we
have so many of them in our community
but as you mentioned we also have so
many who who dismiss domestic violence and i
think that's partly because they just really have
this is not their field which is not
an excuse i don't know if you should
be an imam i mean like the thing
is the problem is we we make the
imam the the the judge the assignment in
the islamic system he has become the judge
the muslim therapist he's become the psychological counselor
he's become everything when he's his real you
know focus should be the spiritual lens which
of course all of those things are impacted
by that but they're not he's not supposed
to be the judge the executioner the jury
he's not supposed to be all of it
but in our community he has become that
because we don't have the system set up
for it and so i think part of
the process and i don't know uh personally
to provide any other resources than the ones
i mentioned unfortunately i wish i did and
that's just my own fault it's not that
they don't exist perhaps more do exist um
and sheikha rania awad is maybe a great
resource inshallah because of her specialty and her
work in this field especially looking at mental
mental health in the muslim field in the
muslim community and doing so much research in
that but i think the point is that
we need to move away from a a
structure in which nisa is coming and saying
let me introduce myself to your masjid where
instead the masjids are we are we are
outreaching and we are bringing in all these
organizations the onus of responsibility shouldn't be on
an organization to come in and say let's
provide our resources every message to say this
is this is so critical in our community
our imam is not trained for this because
most imams are not and that's not a
fault on the imam they were never supposed
to be all of these things and instead
here is the process that we have in
place that we are working with lawyers social
workers and we are working with uh we
are working with organizations that explicitly do this
work to have a streamlined process on what
a woman goes through we don't have that
right now we have you know women who
are coming to you may allah bless you
so much for therapy and then not knowing
where to go after that because we just
don't have that system and that's i think
that goes back to the fact that we
don't we're not reflecting the needs of our
community yet and inshallah we will one day
um it's a process to get there and
and i'm as angry and frustrated as you
are in that process we're you know very
grateful i know we're at 1105 literally now
um i i just want to honestly just
from the bottom of my heart say thank
you so so much for joining us and
imparting really such amazing knowledge i've learned so
much i've taken notes as as i've been
listening to you um so much of this
that honestly things get misinterpreted along the way
you know people have their own ideas about
things but mashallah you just went right into
it in so much detail and depth and
um you honestly like i said um you
answered questions that i had and you just
kind of knew and you just um mashallah
just um went above and beyond and i
really really do value your time you being
with us today um i i know that
inshallah hopefully in the future we can have
you back again inshallah speaking but thank you
so much for just carving time out for
for us today and speaking with us and
being so beautifully prepared and um just so
sincere and genuine with how you communicated everything
so no no it was such an honor
thank you for the work that you do
mashallah the work you do is so important
and both of you like your entire organization
you're asking me like what are the resources
and i'm like nisa is the resource i
give everyone so may allah bless you may
allah reward you make your work so successful
make your work completely unnecessary and facilitate the
best for you thank you so much for
having me once again for your time um
for your knowledge everything really and um i
i can only thank you so do you
have any final words for for mariam i
know yeah i just wanted to thank you
as well i think it was an amazing
um talk and you know we gain a
lot of clarification with the questions that do
come up very often so jazakallah thank you
thank you so much for the work thank
you once again in regards to your family
i can see