Maryam Amir – The End To Hitting Women Islamic Perspectives On Domestic Violence

Maryam Amir
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of men in marriage, including the need for support during difficult times and the importance of financial independence and reconciliation. They stress the need for more collaboration and dialogue in addressing issues, particularly in response to domestic violence. The mental health field has resources and resources for women, and the speakers express gratitude for their work and encourage others to make their own effort.
AI: Transcript ©
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As-salamu alaykum everybody.

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Thank you for joining us this morning for

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Nisa's talk with our beloved lovely Mariam Amir.

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We are so honored to have you here

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today.

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Mariam, jazakallah khair for joining us.

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I just wanted to tell you a little

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bit about dear Mariam.

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She has received her master's in education from

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UCLA.

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She holds a second bachelor's degree in Islamic

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studies through Al-Azhar University.

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Mariam has studied in Egypt, memorized the Quran,

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and has researched a variety of religious sciences

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ranging from Quranic exegesis, Islamic jurisprudence, prophetic narrations,

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and commentary, women's rights within Islamic law, and

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more for the last past 15 years.

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She's featured in a video series on faith

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produced by goodcast.net called the Mariam Amir

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Show.

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She actively hosts and highlights women who have

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memorized the Quran from around the world through

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the For Mothers campaign.

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She is an instructor with Swiss and Hikma

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Institutes.

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She has been interviewed for her work by

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major news outlets including BBC, NPR, and CBS.

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Her focus is in the fields of spiritual

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connections, identity actualization, social justice, and women's studies

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have humbled her the opportunity to lecture throughout

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the United States and the world including in

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Jerusalem, Mecca, Medina, Stockholm, London, Toronto, and more.

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She holds a second degree black belt in

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Taekwondo and speaks multiple languages.

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Mashallah Mariam, what an honor and blessing and

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what an impressive bio.

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Mashallah.

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Thank you so much for joining us this

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morning.

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It's my honor.

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It's an honor to be here especially with

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the incredible organization and all of that what

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you do.

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Mashallah.

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Thank you so much for having me and

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for highlighting this important issue.

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Bismillah.

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I'm just going to let you roll, do

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your thing.

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One of the questions that I receive most

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about women's issues is the verse 434.

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The verse that is unfortunately deeply misunderstood from

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Muslims and those who are not Muslim who

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ask about women's rights especially in the space

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of the sanctity of the home.

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Oftentimes, verse 434 is translated in a way

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in the English translation that is very difficult

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to process as a believing woman or as

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a believing man who doesn't condone any sort

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of domestic violence.

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Unfortunately, because there is a misunderstanding on the

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translation of this verse at times or the

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meaning of this verse, Muslims get confused on

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what it could mean.

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How do we explain it?

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And oftentimes, we hear things like justification such

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as, you know, well, it's okay as long

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as you don't actually beat someone.

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And all of that is so far from

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what the Qur'an actually shares with us

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in terms of what Allah Subh'anaHu Wa

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Ta-A'la prescribes, what God prescribes for

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men and women to have a peaceful home

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that is filled with tranquility and love and

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mercy.

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The Qur'an talks about marriage as a

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place of love and mercy.

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It talks about dwelling with one another in

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tranquility.

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How does that example of the Prophet Muhammad,

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peace be upon him, who had the most

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incredible relationships with the mothers of the believers

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in every single way, whether it was a

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physical, emotional, sexual, intimate relationship, in every single

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way, that example was one of joy.

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It was one of healing.

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It was one in which women were heard.

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Where do we understand that ideal for what

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it looks like in a marriage when it

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comes to this verse?

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And what does the Prophet Muhammad, peace be

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upon him, teach us when it comes to

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the idea of women living in a way

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that honors her autonomy, in a way that

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honors her individuality in the space of a

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partnership of a relationship?

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So to begin, let's look at what the

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verse actually starts with.

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The Qur'an says, And

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let me read a translation for you.

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Men are the caretakers of women, as men

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have been provisioned by God over women and

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tasked with supporting them financially.

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And righteous women are devoutly obedient and, when

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alone, protective of what God has entrusted them

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with.

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And if you sense ill conduct from your

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woman, advise them first.

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If they persist, do not share their bed.

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But if they still persist, then discipline them

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gently.

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But if they change their ways, do not

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be unjust to them.

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Surely God is most high, all great.

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Now, without context, without commentary to understand the

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meaning of what every single part of that

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long verse means, it can cause a person

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a pause.

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So let's talk about what most of the

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parts mean, only because every part would take

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hours.

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So we're going to take some of the

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ones that generally cause the most confusion.

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The beginning, that men are caretakers of women.

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The verse is using the word qawwam.

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Qawwam can be used for men or for

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women.

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For example, in another part of the Qur

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'an, there are two different verses in which

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Allah says, And

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the verse continues.

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And there's another ayah very similar to it

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with slightly different words, but also using the

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word qawwam.

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And that is standing up for justice.

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Be persistently standing up for justice.

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So we know that the word qawwam is

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included with this idea of standing up of

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someone who strengthens, strengthens something.

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Raghib al-Isfahani, who was a scholar of

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our past, mentions that qawwam in this verse

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is talking about a protector, a strengthener, someone

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who gives support.

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And that's the same thing that Ibn Ashur

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mentioned, someone who stands by and supports something.

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And specifically for men, al-Qurtubi mentioned that

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men provide alimony for women and defend them.

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So when we're looking at the beginning part

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of this verse, some scholars believe that it

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means that all men are qawwam for all

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women.

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All men are supporters, defenders, caretakers of all

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women.

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Other scholars like al-Qurtubi, for example, mentions

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that it's specifically for husbands and wives.

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That this verse isn't talking about all men

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and all women, but specifically in the role

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of marriage, considering the context of the verse,

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that it means that husbands are financial, emotional,

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caretakers, supporters of wives.

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Why?

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Now, in order to understand all the other

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parts of this part of the verse, we

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actually need to do a tafsir of different

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verses.

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Because in order to get, bima thadhalallahu ballahum

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ala bald, we have to look at a

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verse, two verses before.

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So we're not going to do that today,

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just because we don't have the time, but

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we're going to go to the next part,

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which is, wabima anfaqu min amwalihim.

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And in order to understand this part, we

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actually still need to take another verse.

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And that is the end part of an

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ayah in Surah Al-Baqarah, where Allah says,

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walirrijali AAalayhina daraja.

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So upon men, so over women, men have

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another degree.

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What is that other degree?

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What does daraja mean?

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They have another level?

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They have another degree of responsibility towards women.

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What is that responsibility?

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Ibn Abbas mentions in what men give to

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women in the mahr and in financial provision.

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And this is super important to remember when

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we talk about this part, wabima anfaqu min

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amwalihim, and what they give out of their

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wealth.

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So the Quran says in verse 434, that

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men are qawam over women.

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Why?

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One of the reasons is because of what

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they give to women over their wealth.

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Now, one of the problems, not problems, but

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a structural issue when we're looking at marriages,

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where men are solely responsible for the finances,

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when it comes to domestic violence, is that

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women are completely reliant on her husband for

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her sustenance, for her shelter, for her food,

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for her clothing, for that of her children's.

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If she is in a emotional, physical, sexually

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dangerous place, and she's being harmed, she often

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has to choose between having nowhere to go

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or staying and continuing to experience the harm.

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And especially if she has children, leaving that

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situation with nowhere to go, especially when I've

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had women come to me and tell me

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that their own families do not want them

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back, because a divorce is such a big

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stigma in their culture.

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And that's not something we see during the

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time of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon

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him.

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The companions of the Prophet, peace be upon

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him, would get divorced simply because they didn't

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get along with their spouse, just because they

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were not emotionally compatible, just because they didn't

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really feel like they loved each other.

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Which of course, that's not to say we

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shouldn't encourage therapy and we shouldn't encourage support

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systems, but the point is it wasn't a

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stigma.

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Companions of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon

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him, would get married, divorced, widowed, and remarried.

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And that was the case of Asma bint

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Umayyad, who was a huge companion, radiyallahu anha,

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who when Umar radiyallahu anhu went in and

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saw that she was sitting with Hafsa, his

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daughter, radiyallahu anhum, and he was like, who

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is this?

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Hafsa, and Hafsa was, and then he realized,

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oh, she's the woman who came with the

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ship, because she migrated from Mecca to Abyssinia,

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and then she migrated from Abyssinia to Mecca,

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I mean, excuse me, to Medina.

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And Umar radiyallahu anhu told her that we

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got here first, we migrated with the Prophet

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Muhammad, peace be upon him, before you did.

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And that's not his exact statement, but his

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point was that we have more of a

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right to the Prophet than you do, peace

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be upon him.

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And she is looking at Umar radiyallahu anhu,

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who is physically a very large man, who

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is guaranteed paradise, who is a commander, who

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becomes the khalifa of the Muslims.

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And yet she doesn't say, oh, I shouldn't

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say anything back because he is a man.

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She doesn't say, I shouldn't say anything back

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because he is so pious.

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She is upset that he implied that they

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do not have as much of a right

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to the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam.

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And so when she got upset, she said

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that she was, you, Umar radiyallahu anhu, and

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your companions were with the Prophet salallahu alayhi

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wasalam while we were far, while we were

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hungry, while he salallahu alayhi wasalam mentored the

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companions, and he provided with the companions, and

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they didn't get all of that.

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So she went to the Prophet peace be

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upon him, and she told him what Umar

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radiyallahu anhu said, and the Prophet peace be

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upon him replied with that Umar radiyallahu anhu

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and his companions do not have more of

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a right over the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam,

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that the people of the ship, the Asma

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and the people of the ship, they migrated

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twice, and Umar radiyallahu anhu and his companions

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only migrated once.

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So the people of the ship have double

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the reward.

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The people who migrated with Asma have double

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the reward of the migration.

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And so because of her agency of voice,

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her voicing, how she felt, not only was

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Umar radiyallahu anhu taught, but the policy, the

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way that people interacted with these companions shifted,

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and Abu Musa al-Ash'ari, a great

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companion, would come over and over to Asma

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radiyallahu anhu asking to narrate this hadith again

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and again.

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But Asma radiyallahu anhu, first she was married,

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and then when her husband was killed in

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battle, she got married again to Abu Bakr

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radiyallahu anhu, and she was there as Abu

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Bakr radiyallahu anhu was, you know, sick as

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he was dying, she was taking care of

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him.

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And when Abu Bakr radiyallahu anhu passed away,

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she then later got married to Ali radiyallahu

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anhu.

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The point is that the companions didn't see

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a woman who was widowed or divorced as

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some sort of stigma.

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It wasn't part of that culture, the Islamic

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culture.

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Unfortunately, in many Muslim majority cultures, it is

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a stigma today, so much so that women

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stay in marriages even when they are physically,

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emotionally being harmed.

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Now what this means in terms of a,

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why this is important in terms of being,

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men being financial providers, is because of this.

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Number one, why does Allah give men that

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responsibility?

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Women have the incredible gift that Allah has

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given women the power and the vulnerability of

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bringing new life into the world.

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This is something that only women are honored

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with.

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Now many women are never going to become

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mothers, many women struggle with infertility, many women

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don't want to be mothers, but we're talking

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about Islam addresses societal structures.

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In a societal structure, women who especially choose

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to become pregnant, who especially are finding themselves

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pregnant in a marriage, and are now looking

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at the fact that they may not be

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able to work as they used to.

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Maybe they've already spoken, let's say a couple

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speaks to get married, they choose that they're

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both going to be working, and that's something

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that they decide.

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Both the man and that woman both want

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to work in their marriage, totally fine.

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Still, her money is her money.

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If she chooses to give part of that

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money to the marital home, then that's sadaqah

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from her, that's charity from her, and in

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some of the madhhabs, she can also put

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in a contract where he has to pay

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her back at some point, so that she

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can receive the money back even if she

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gives it.

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So let's say they get married and they

00:15:04 --> 00:15:06

decide that they both want to contribute to

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the household, but then she gets pregnant, and

00:15:11 --> 00:15:14

she is finding herself unable to physically work

00:15:14 --> 00:15:17

and be pregnant at the same time.

00:15:17 --> 00:15:18

Many women can work and be pregnant at

00:15:18 --> 00:15:20

the same time, no problem, that's awesome.

00:15:20 --> 00:15:21

But many can't.

00:15:22 --> 00:15:23

They have high-risk pregnancies, they have severe

00:15:23 --> 00:15:27

morning sickness, whatever the reason, maybe she chooses

00:15:27 --> 00:15:28

after she gives birth that she wants to

00:15:28 --> 00:15:30

stay home and be with her baby.

00:15:31 --> 00:15:33

She doesn't have to choose that from an

00:15:33 --> 00:15:34

Islamic perspective.

00:15:34 --> 00:15:36

She doesn't have to, she and her husband

00:15:36 --> 00:15:37

can agree to what they would like to

00:15:37 --> 00:15:38

do together.

00:15:38 --> 00:15:40

But let's say that's what she wants to

00:15:40 --> 00:15:41

do, and that's what she and her husband

00:15:41 --> 00:15:42

have agreed upon.

00:15:43 --> 00:15:46

Now, she is not required to have to

00:15:46 --> 00:15:49

work so that she can take care of

00:15:49 --> 00:15:50

herself when she's pregnant.

00:15:51 --> 00:15:53

She can take care of the baby when

00:15:53 --> 00:15:53

she has the baby.

00:15:53 --> 00:15:55

She can choose to take care of her

00:15:55 --> 00:15:57

children if she wants to.

00:15:57 --> 00:15:59

Again, this goes back to their relationship, and

00:15:59 --> 00:16:01

they have a conversation about what their home

00:16:01 --> 00:16:02

is going to look like.

00:16:02 --> 00:16:04

But this provision of the husband being financially

00:16:04 --> 00:16:07

responsible gives her the option on what she's

00:16:07 --> 00:16:09

going to do when she's going through that

00:16:09 --> 00:16:09

process.

00:16:09 --> 00:16:17

Now, we're talking about a husband who is

00:16:17 --> 00:16:20

not a Nash's husband, who we're going to

00:16:20 --> 00:16:21

talk about in a second.

00:16:21 --> 00:16:23

We're talking about a husband who is supportive,

00:16:23 --> 00:16:25

who is financially caring.

00:16:26 --> 00:16:29

The reason for the mahr, as Ibn Abbas

00:16:29 --> 00:16:32

mentioned, one of the reasons is to make

00:16:32 --> 00:16:35

sure that a woman has her own financial

00:16:35 --> 00:16:35

safety plan.

00:16:36 --> 00:16:38

When you look at the concept of the

00:16:38 --> 00:16:40

mahr, a lot of times, many cultures see

00:16:40 --> 00:16:41

it as something symbolic.

00:16:42 --> 00:16:45

Oh, a mushaf, a copy of the Quran,

00:16:45 --> 00:16:49

a jar of honey to sweeten our relationship.

00:16:50 --> 00:16:52

Some look at it as a symbolic gesture.

00:16:53 --> 00:16:56

Others look at it as something that's culturally

00:16:56 --> 00:16:58

seen as, you know, women in this culture

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typically ask for $10,000 or $20,000.

00:17:01 --> 00:17:04

It's a typical number that the culture accepts.

00:17:04 --> 00:17:06

And sometimes you hear comments like, oh, that

00:17:06 --> 00:17:09

family is so, you know, it's like they're,

00:17:09 --> 00:17:11

it's so expensive to marry into their family.

00:17:12 --> 00:17:13

Their daughters ask for such a great mahr.

00:17:14 --> 00:17:17

But regardless of what the culture says about

00:17:17 --> 00:17:20

the mahr from an Islamic standpoint, the mahr

00:17:20 --> 00:17:22

has ways to be given so that it

00:17:22 --> 00:17:25

provides financial stability for a woman in marriage

00:17:25 --> 00:17:27

so she has her own money and also

00:17:27 --> 00:17:29

out of marriage in case there is a

00:17:29 --> 00:17:29

divorce.

00:17:29 --> 00:17:33

So for example, she can choose to say

00:17:33 --> 00:17:34

she wants, I'm going to put up a

00:17:34 --> 00:17:35

random number of $10,000.

00:17:36 --> 00:17:38

So let's say she says 10,000 and

00:17:38 --> 00:17:40

a husband and a wife are right now

00:17:40 --> 00:17:42

just out of college.

00:17:42 --> 00:17:44

He doesn't have $10,000 to his name,

00:17:44 --> 00:17:47

but she can ask for a muqaddam and

00:17:47 --> 00:17:51

a muakhar, which means beforehand, before they get

00:17:51 --> 00:17:53

married, she can ask for $100 with the

00:17:53 --> 00:17:56

promise that every month she's going to be

00:17:56 --> 00:17:59

receiving a certain amount of money from that

00:17:59 --> 00:18:03

mahr, that marriage gift, until the next however

00:18:03 --> 00:18:06

many years that they're able to fulfill the

00:18:06 --> 00:18:06

contract.

00:18:07 --> 00:18:10

If he divorces his wife, this mahr becomes

00:18:10 --> 00:18:12

a debt that he owes her.

00:18:12 --> 00:18:15

So even in the case of a fask,

00:18:15 --> 00:18:17

which is, for example, if a woman is

00:18:17 --> 00:18:21

experiencing domestic violence, she can receive a fask,

00:18:21 --> 00:18:22

which is the dissolution of her marriage.

00:18:22 --> 00:18:25

It is a debt that he needs to

00:18:25 --> 00:18:26

pay her that money.

00:18:26 --> 00:18:30

So she is not ever financially completely dependent

00:18:30 --> 00:18:33

on his mercy when there is a situation

00:18:33 --> 00:18:35

that he is not fulfilling his due.

00:18:36 --> 00:18:40

Also in terms of the mahr, beyond the

00:18:40 --> 00:18:44

mahr, some scholars talk about her being able

00:18:44 --> 00:18:47

to, let's say she chooses that she doesn't

00:18:47 --> 00:18:47

want to work.

00:18:47 --> 00:18:48

She wants to be a housewife.

00:18:48 --> 00:18:49

She wants to be a stay at home

00:18:49 --> 00:18:49

mom.

00:18:49 --> 00:18:50

That's her choice.

00:18:50 --> 00:18:51

That's what she wants to do before they

00:18:51 --> 00:18:52

get married, they make that decision.

00:18:53 --> 00:18:55

She can sign a contract with her husband,

00:18:55 --> 00:18:58

some of the scholars say, for asking that

00:18:58 --> 00:19:02

her cooking and her cleaning, which is not

00:19:02 --> 00:19:05

considered a requirement by many scholars that she

00:19:05 --> 00:19:07

has to do in the marriage, that she

00:19:07 --> 00:19:09

can be paid for these acts.

00:19:09 --> 00:19:11

So the point is that even a woman

00:19:11 --> 00:19:13

who is a housewife and a stay at

00:19:13 --> 00:19:19

home mom has her own financial pocket that

00:19:19 --> 00:19:21

if she's in a situation where she is

00:19:21 --> 00:19:23

no longer safe in her marriage and she

00:19:23 --> 00:19:25

doesn't have her family to go back to,

00:19:25 --> 00:19:28

she has her own money that she's not

00:19:28 --> 00:19:29

dependent on anyone else for.

00:19:30 --> 00:19:33

Now, of course, the right Islamic marriage with

00:19:33 --> 00:19:36

a husband correctly acting appropriately is taking care

00:19:36 --> 00:19:37

of his family.

00:19:37 --> 00:19:40

Even after a divorce, taking care of making

00:19:40 --> 00:19:42

sure that his children have everything that they

00:19:42 --> 00:19:44

need, but that's not the reality of our

00:19:44 --> 00:19:45

communities.

00:19:45 --> 00:19:48

And in an Islamic system, she should have

00:19:48 --> 00:19:51

either her father or her brother, which she

00:19:51 --> 00:19:53

doesn't always have to support her.

00:19:53 --> 00:19:57

And in that case, the Islamic court system

00:19:57 --> 00:19:58

is supposed to provide for her from the

00:19:58 --> 00:19:59

treasury.

00:19:59 --> 00:20:03

That doesn't always, that's not realistic, not in

00:20:03 --> 00:20:04

America, not in so many places that we

00:20:04 --> 00:20:05

live in.

00:20:05 --> 00:20:07

So that's why it's so important for us

00:20:07 --> 00:20:10

talking about our reality to know from an

00:20:10 --> 00:20:13

Islamic standpoint, she has the right to have

00:20:13 --> 00:20:15

her own money that she receives even as

00:20:15 --> 00:20:18

a housewife for cooking and cleaning for breastfeeding

00:20:18 --> 00:20:19

her own child.

00:20:20 --> 00:20:22

These are all ways that she can receive

00:20:22 --> 00:20:27

financial support for financial independence for.

00:20:28 --> 00:20:31

And also when looking at this, women should

00:20:31 --> 00:20:32

invest that money.

00:20:32 --> 00:20:35

Dr. Tamara Gray, the sheikha who founded Robalta,

00:20:36 --> 00:20:37

she talks about a woman that she knew

00:20:37 --> 00:20:39

in Syria who took the mahr money that

00:20:39 --> 00:20:42

she received and she invested it in buying

00:20:42 --> 00:20:44

a taxi and hiring a driver.

00:20:44 --> 00:20:46

And so every month he made money as

00:20:46 --> 00:20:48

the driver and she received an amount.

00:20:49 --> 00:20:50

And so that mahr that started as a

00:20:50 --> 00:20:53

certain amount only grew in expanse.

00:20:53 --> 00:20:55

So being able to equip women in our

00:20:55 --> 00:20:57

communities to know that when you go into

00:20:57 --> 00:21:00

a marriage, of course, we pray that it's

00:21:00 --> 00:21:03

so wonderfully financially secure, but also from an

00:21:03 --> 00:21:06

Islamic perspective, you have these rights so that

00:21:06 --> 00:21:07

you know that you have a den of

00:21:07 --> 00:21:08

money.

00:21:08 --> 00:21:10

And that could simply be because you want

00:21:10 --> 00:21:11

to keep giving in charity.

00:21:12 --> 00:21:13

It could be because you want to buy

00:21:13 --> 00:21:15

extra things that go beyond the family budget,

00:21:15 --> 00:21:17

but it's so that you know that you

00:21:17 --> 00:21:19

have something for yourself.

00:21:20 --> 00:21:23

Now, in addition to having this discussion on

00:21:23 --> 00:21:26

finances, it's important to talk about what kind

00:21:26 --> 00:21:30

of a husband the Islamic marriage paints, because

00:21:30 --> 00:21:32

when we look at the Prophet Muhammad, peace

00:21:32 --> 00:21:34

be upon him, who, of course, was not

00:21:34 --> 00:21:38

by any means prosperous financially.

00:21:39 --> 00:21:41

The mothers of the believers lived very frugally.

00:21:42 --> 00:21:43

The Prophet, peace be upon him, was so

00:21:43 --> 00:21:45

hungry that he put rocks on his stomach.

00:21:45 --> 00:21:49

So we're not talking about the ideal man

00:21:49 --> 00:21:51

having, you know, billions of dollars living in

00:21:51 --> 00:21:52

the Bay Area.

00:21:52 --> 00:21:56

We know that two income households are essential

00:21:56 --> 00:22:02

for the most families in the Bay, and

00:22:02 --> 00:22:04

for many cities all around the world.

00:22:05 --> 00:22:07

And Islam has conversations on what that looks

00:22:07 --> 00:22:09

like, even that situation in marriages.

00:22:09 --> 00:22:11

I'm going to close that section on finances

00:22:11 --> 00:22:12

only because there are other parts of the

00:22:12 --> 00:22:13

verse to get to.

00:22:13 --> 00:22:16

But the point is that a husband isn't

00:22:16 --> 00:22:19

required to provide lavishly unless, actually, I'm not

00:22:19 --> 00:22:20

going to get into that.

00:22:20 --> 00:22:21

Sorry, that's a different discussion too.

00:22:22 --> 00:22:23

There are discussions on that in fiqh as

00:22:23 --> 00:22:23

well.

00:22:24 --> 00:22:27

But the point is that, of course, we

00:22:27 --> 00:22:29

hope that a husband and a wife live

00:22:29 --> 00:22:31

together with love and in harmony.

00:22:32 --> 00:22:33

But there are going to be cases in

00:22:33 --> 00:22:36

which that's not realistic, and Islam addresses that.

00:22:36 --> 00:22:38

So the next part of the verse talks

00:22:38 --> 00:22:40

about different qualities of a wife.

00:22:40 --> 00:22:46

And the scholars debate whether this is qualities

00:22:46 --> 00:22:48

that she shows to Allah, or if this

00:22:48 --> 00:22:51

is qualities that she shows to her husband.

00:22:51 --> 00:22:53

But after that section, which we don't have

00:22:53 --> 00:22:54

time to get into, we're going to get

00:22:54 --> 00:22:55

into nushus.

00:22:55 --> 00:22:56

What is nushus?

00:22:57 --> 00:22:59

This part of the verse is connected with

00:22:59 --> 00:22:59

darb.

00:23:00 --> 00:23:03

Darb is often translated as beat, or strike

00:23:03 --> 00:23:03

lightly.

00:23:04 --> 00:23:06

So who is this talking about?

00:23:06 --> 00:23:08

A woman who commits nushus.

00:23:12 --> 00:23:15

Those you are certain, those you are absolutely

00:23:15 --> 00:23:18

certain have committed nushus.

00:23:18 --> 00:23:20

What is nushus?

00:23:20 --> 00:23:23

Let's talk about what the scholars say, what

00:23:23 --> 00:23:26

nushus is from the husband to the wife.

00:23:26 --> 00:23:28

Because it will make more clear what is

00:23:28 --> 00:23:30

nushus from the wife to the husband.

00:23:31 --> 00:23:34

So Ibn Abidin and many other scholars from

00:23:34 --> 00:23:37

all of the madhhabs say different things.

00:23:37 --> 00:23:40

They say cursing her, if a husband curses

00:23:40 --> 00:23:43

his wife, if he verbally abuses her for

00:23:43 --> 00:23:45

the smallest of reasons, if he avoids being

00:23:45 --> 00:23:48

intimate with her for no reason when she

00:23:48 --> 00:23:51

wants intimacy, making her life difficult with regards

00:23:51 --> 00:23:54

to food and drink and clothing, showing a

00:23:54 --> 00:23:57

lack of respect and joking on her expense,

00:23:57 --> 00:24:01

backbiting her, making fun of her, taking a

00:24:01 --> 00:24:05

trip for fun without consulting with her first

00:24:05 --> 00:24:08

because it impacts her, hating her and making

00:24:08 --> 00:24:12

life difficult for her, boycotting her, irritating her,

00:24:12 --> 00:24:15

abusing her, not speaking to her, turning his

00:24:15 --> 00:24:20

back to her in bed and obviously in

00:24:20 --> 00:24:21

any way physically harming her.

00:24:22 --> 00:24:24

So we can see that from the malikis

00:24:24 --> 00:24:26

to the shakiris to the hanbalis to the

00:24:26 --> 00:24:29

hanafis, all of them have different interpretations of

00:24:29 --> 00:24:33

what a man who is considered nushus does

00:24:33 --> 00:24:36

to his wife in ways that harm her.

00:24:36 --> 00:24:39

And that can range from hating her to

00:24:39 --> 00:24:43

being emotionally or physically or sexually abusive to

00:24:43 --> 00:24:43

her.

00:24:43 --> 00:24:45

It's very important to mention verbally.

00:24:46 --> 00:24:48

I hope that maybe we caught on to

00:24:48 --> 00:24:50

how many times they said making fun of

00:24:50 --> 00:24:52

her, boy backbiting against her.

00:24:52 --> 00:24:56

Those are considered acts of her husband harming

00:24:56 --> 00:24:57

her.

00:24:57 --> 00:25:00

Islamic law doesn't just take into account physical

00:25:00 --> 00:25:00

harm.

00:25:01 --> 00:25:03

It also takes into account emotional harm.

00:25:03 --> 00:25:05

So when the prophet Muhammad peace be upon

00:25:05 --> 00:25:08

him says that there's no harm and there's

00:25:08 --> 00:25:10

no reciprocation of harm, there are so many

00:25:10 --> 00:25:14

examples of that meaning and including emotional harm.

00:25:14 --> 00:25:17

Sometimes women say, oh it's not that bad.

00:25:17 --> 00:25:18

He doesn't hit me.

00:25:18 --> 00:25:19

Oh it's not that bad.

00:25:19 --> 00:25:24

He's not, you know, subhanAllah, actively physically harming

00:25:24 --> 00:25:24

her.

00:25:24 --> 00:25:26

But emotional harm is great.

00:25:26 --> 00:25:29

That's psychologically damaging.

00:25:29 --> 00:25:32

Children see that and they grow up thinking

00:25:32 --> 00:25:35

that that's normal and that's far from acceptable

00:25:35 --> 00:25:37

from an Islamic standpoint.

00:25:37 --> 00:25:41

So when we see what the husband looks

00:25:41 --> 00:25:44

like when he's committing nushuz, now let's look

00:25:44 --> 00:25:46

at the verse when it talks about a

00:25:46 --> 00:25:47

woman committing nushuz.

00:25:47 --> 00:25:50

This means that from Imam al-Shafi'i,

00:25:50 --> 00:25:55

he explains that when she is committing nushuz,

00:25:55 --> 00:25:58

it means it's not in retaliation to him

00:25:58 --> 00:25:59

doing something to her.

00:26:00 --> 00:26:03

Many times in a marriage, a husband does

00:26:03 --> 00:26:05

something, a wife reacts.

00:26:05 --> 00:26:07

A wife does something, a husband reacts.

00:26:08 --> 00:26:10

The wife does something, the husband is upset,

00:26:10 --> 00:26:10

he reacts.

00:26:10 --> 00:26:12

The husband does something, the wife is upset,

00:26:12 --> 00:26:13

she reacts.

00:26:13 --> 00:26:16

It's a constant reaction to something someone did

00:26:16 --> 00:26:19

and that's the general feeling in the house.

00:26:19 --> 00:26:22

You don't feel the type of tranquility that

00:26:22 --> 00:26:23

the Quran talks about.

00:26:23 --> 00:26:25

This is not nushuz.

00:26:26 --> 00:26:29

Imam al-Shafi'i says a woman who

00:26:29 --> 00:26:34

does something in a marriage, not in retaliation

00:26:34 --> 00:26:37

to something her husband has done, and she

00:26:37 --> 00:26:40

wants to stay in this marriage because again,

00:26:40 --> 00:26:42

divorce is always an option.

00:26:42 --> 00:26:45

She can ask for a khalaq, which is

00:26:45 --> 00:26:47

her asking for divorce.

00:26:47 --> 00:26:51

So, it's not because she doesn't want to

00:26:51 --> 00:26:51

stay in the marriage.

00:26:52 --> 00:26:53

She wants to stay in the marriage and

00:26:53 --> 00:26:56

it's not in retaliation to him, but she

00:26:56 --> 00:27:00

does different actions that cause harm and threatens

00:27:00 --> 00:27:02

their marital space.

00:27:03 --> 00:27:06

Now, when that happens, the Quran provides three

00:27:06 --> 00:27:08

options on what to do.

00:27:08 --> 00:27:11

It's a step-by-step process, but first,

00:27:11 --> 00:27:13

in order to understand that process, we have

00:27:13 --> 00:27:15

to go to the context in where this

00:27:15 --> 00:27:15

verse was revealed.

00:27:16 --> 00:27:19

This verse was revealed in, as we know,

00:27:19 --> 00:27:21

the society of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be

00:27:21 --> 00:27:24

upon him, in which women were from a

00:27:24 --> 00:27:27

culture that used to be buried alive.

00:27:27 --> 00:27:29

Baby girls would be born and they would

00:27:29 --> 00:27:31

be buried by their own fathers with the

00:27:31 --> 00:27:33

consent at times of their mothers.

00:27:34 --> 00:27:37

We're looking at a society in which women

00:27:37 --> 00:27:39

were married 20 to 30 women at a

00:27:39 --> 00:27:42

time to one man in a culture in

00:27:42 --> 00:27:45

which women were inherited like property because they

00:27:45 --> 00:27:46

were seen as property.

00:27:47 --> 00:27:48

Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, said

00:27:48 --> 00:27:51

that we used to think of women as

00:27:51 --> 00:27:57

absolutely nothing until what Allah revealed of what

00:27:57 --> 00:27:59

he revealed and divided what he divided.

00:27:59 --> 00:28:01

So, we're talking about a society which literally

00:28:01 --> 00:28:04

saw women as nothing and in this society,

00:28:04 --> 00:28:08

we know that darb and in this context,

00:28:09 --> 00:28:10

which I'm going to say, which was an

00:28:10 --> 00:28:15

actual physical beating, was seen as not simply

00:28:15 --> 00:28:18

acceptable because Ibn Ashur, who is a commentator

00:28:18 --> 00:28:20

of the Quran and a fiqh, he talks

00:28:20 --> 00:28:24

about a woman in this time period saw

00:28:24 --> 00:28:30

hitting physical domestic violence as acceptable.

00:28:30 --> 00:28:33

Obviously, when you're from a culture that sees

00:28:33 --> 00:28:35

you as property, you would look at it

00:28:35 --> 00:28:38

as acceptable but also we need to realize

00:28:38 --> 00:28:40

that it wasn't simply acceptable.

00:28:40 --> 00:28:42

It was seen as manly.

00:28:43 --> 00:28:44

It was seen as chivalrous.

00:28:45 --> 00:28:45

How do we know that?

00:28:45 --> 00:28:48

Because we look at Arabic poetry before the

00:28:48 --> 00:28:51

Quran was revealed and in Arabic poetry before

00:28:51 --> 00:28:53

the Quran was revealed, we have the story

00:28:53 --> 00:28:55

of a mother who's giving advice to her

00:28:55 --> 00:28:58

daughter and she's saying that you are going

00:28:58 --> 00:29:00

to get married, go into your new marital

00:29:00 --> 00:29:04

home, take the weapons of your husband, break

00:29:04 --> 00:29:06

them in half, throw them all over the

00:29:06 --> 00:29:08

floor and see what his reaction is.

00:29:08 --> 00:29:11

If he does not physically beat you for

00:29:11 --> 00:29:13

breaking all of his weapons and throwing them

00:29:13 --> 00:29:17

on the floor, his tools of manhood, then

00:29:17 --> 00:29:18

he is not going to defend you.

00:29:19 --> 00:29:21

Do you see how this mother saw it

00:29:21 --> 00:29:24

to her daughter that if he doesn't physically

00:29:24 --> 00:29:29

beat you for challenging his manhood, then he's

00:29:29 --> 00:29:30

not going to defend you outside of his

00:29:30 --> 00:29:31

own home?

00:29:31 --> 00:29:34

So the way that they saw this was

00:29:34 --> 00:29:38

a sign of a husband having this prowess

00:29:38 --> 00:29:41

not only to defend internally the home but

00:29:41 --> 00:29:42

as well as externally.

00:29:42 --> 00:29:44

So what does the Quran do?

00:29:44 --> 00:29:53

The Quran comes and limits and gets rid

00:29:53 --> 00:29:56

of domestic violence.

00:29:56 --> 00:29:57

How so?

00:29:58 --> 00:30:00

Looking at a society in which even women

00:30:00 --> 00:30:04

saw this as something chivalrous to those women,

00:30:04 --> 00:30:07

especially particularly amongst the Bedouins Ibn Ashur mentions.

00:30:08 --> 00:30:12

The Quran comes and gives guidelines on what

00:30:12 --> 00:30:15

needs to be done before even enacting the

00:30:15 --> 00:30:17

concept of darb and we're going to get

00:30:17 --> 00:30:17

to what that means.

00:30:18 --> 00:30:21

The first one is that a husband needs

00:30:21 --> 00:30:23

to communicate to his wife how he is

00:30:23 --> 00:30:24

feeling.

00:30:24 --> 00:30:27

The first one is that they speak to

00:30:27 --> 00:30:27

one another.

00:30:28 --> 00:30:31

Now Ibn Kathir who is a great commentator

00:30:31 --> 00:30:33

of the Quran, he mentions that a husband

00:30:33 --> 00:30:35

and a wife must live with one another

00:30:35 --> 00:30:38

in mawadda and rahma as a every wedding

00:30:38 --> 00:30:39

card mentions.

00:30:40 --> 00:30:42

Mawadda is not, I mean love of course

00:30:42 --> 00:30:44

it is love but it's not just love,

00:30:44 --> 00:30:46

it's active love, it's love in action.

00:30:47 --> 00:30:49

Mawadda actually means actively showing love.

00:30:49 --> 00:30:52

The five love languages which are so famous,

00:30:53 --> 00:30:56

it is actively showing love through every sort

00:30:56 --> 00:30:57

of love language.

00:30:57 --> 00:31:00

Mawadda is active love and Ibn Kathir mentions

00:31:00 --> 00:31:01

that if he's not going to live with

00:31:01 --> 00:31:04

her in love then at least it needs

00:31:04 --> 00:31:06

to be in mercy because there are going

00:31:06 --> 00:31:08

to be times that a continues to live

00:31:08 --> 00:31:10

together even when they hate each other but

00:31:10 --> 00:31:12

it needs to be done with mercy.

00:31:12 --> 00:31:14

That life together needs to be with mercy.

00:31:15 --> 00:31:19

So scholars mention that the first part of

00:31:19 --> 00:31:22

responding to the act of nushuz from a

00:31:22 --> 00:31:24

husband to a wife is by talking to

00:31:24 --> 00:31:27

her with gentleness, not yelling at her, not

00:31:27 --> 00:31:30

screaming at her, not cursing her, saying I

00:31:30 --> 00:31:32

have seen you do such and such a

00:31:32 --> 00:31:35

wrong and can you please stop.

00:31:36 --> 00:31:39

So literally mentioning the exact issue and asking

00:31:39 --> 00:31:40

her to stop.

00:31:41 --> 00:31:45

Now if that doesn't work it goes on

00:31:45 --> 00:31:47

to the next step and the next step

00:31:47 --> 00:31:50

is that he's supposed to leave the marital

00:31:50 --> 00:31:50

bed.

00:31:51 --> 00:31:53

Now many couples already are not intimate with

00:31:53 --> 00:31:54

one another so that could be a relief

00:31:54 --> 00:31:57

to her but the point is that it's

00:31:57 --> 00:32:01

supposed to move from communicating and that takes

00:32:01 --> 00:32:01

time.

00:32:01 --> 00:32:03

It's not I tried this in the morning

00:32:03 --> 00:32:05

and by the evening he's going to turn

00:32:05 --> 00:32:06

away in bed.

00:32:07 --> 00:32:10

It takes time which means the anger, the

00:32:10 --> 00:32:14

hurt, the frustration by this time unless it's

00:32:14 --> 00:32:17

an act that is continually happening it should

00:32:17 --> 00:32:17

have calmed down.

00:32:18 --> 00:32:21

The second step is walking away from the

00:32:21 --> 00:32:21

marital bed.

00:32:22 --> 00:32:25

Again by this time it should have calmed

00:32:25 --> 00:32:26

down but let's say it hasn't.

00:32:26 --> 00:32:28

Let's say it's persisting.

00:32:28 --> 00:32:29

What is the third point?

00:32:29 --> 00:32:30

This is darb.

00:32:30 --> 00:32:32

Now darb is understood by scholars in two

00:32:32 --> 00:32:33

different ways.

00:32:33 --> 00:32:36

Some look at it as a physical action

00:32:36 --> 00:32:40

and others look at it as an emotional

00:32:40 --> 00:32:40

reaction.

00:32:41 --> 00:32:45

So the physical action of darb has so

00:32:45 --> 00:32:47

many different meanings in Arabic.

00:32:48 --> 00:32:49

It could mean to travel or to depart.

00:32:50 --> 00:32:52

It could mean to block or to prevent.

00:32:52 --> 00:32:55

It can mean to neglect and to abandon.

00:32:55 --> 00:33:00

It could to make truth and falsehood evident

00:33:00 --> 00:33:02

and distinguishable.

00:33:02 --> 00:33:04

It can mean to cut or to strike

00:33:04 --> 00:33:05

or to slash or to slap.

00:33:06 --> 00:33:09

It could be to separate and even more.

00:33:09 --> 00:33:11

So darb itself has so many different meanings.

00:33:12 --> 00:33:14

Now the scholars who look at darb and

00:33:14 --> 00:33:17

say it's a physical meaning restricting the concept

00:33:17 --> 00:33:19

of darb in the society that it was

00:33:19 --> 00:33:23

revealed in talk about the conditions for and

00:33:23 --> 00:33:25

this is very triggering to talk about for

00:33:25 --> 00:33:27

anyone who is involved with any sort of

00:33:27 --> 00:33:31

work or who has experienced domestic violence because

00:33:31 --> 00:33:35

even with the conditions which mean it cannot

00:33:35 --> 00:33:35

leave a mark.

00:33:36 --> 00:33:37

It cannot be on the face.

00:33:37 --> 00:33:39

It cannot leave a bruise or a red

00:33:39 --> 00:33:39

mark.

00:33:39 --> 00:33:40

It cannot cut.

00:33:41 --> 00:33:44

The scholars like Ibn Abbas for example he

00:33:44 --> 00:33:46

took a shoelace and he went like this

00:33:46 --> 00:33:47

or a miswak.

00:33:47 --> 00:33:50

Other scholars say the end of a garment

00:33:50 --> 00:33:52

is what is supposed to be used to

00:33:52 --> 00:33:52

do darb.

00:33:52 --> 00:33:55

Other scholars say to take a a pack

00:33:55 --> 00:33:58

of wadded up napkins and that's what darb

00:33:58 --> 00:33:58

is.

00:33:58 --> 00:34:00

So if you take the end of a

00:34:00 --> 00:34:02

garment or a pack of wadded up napkins

00:34:02 --> 00:34:04

and you take that and you hit someone

00:34:04 --> 00:34:07

or yourself it's not painful when you do

00:34:07 --> 00:34:11

this but it's still emotionally humiliating.

00:34:11 --> 00:34:12

It's still hurtful.

00:34:13 --> 00:34:15

Just the concept of it can be harmful

00:34:15 --> 00:34:18

and that is why scholars say that if

00:34:18 --> 00:34:22

this even with all these conditions even if

00:34:22 --> 00:34:24

it's symbolic even using the end of a

00:34:24 --> 00:34:27

garment or a bunch of napkins even if

00:34:27 --> 00:34:31

that could be emotionally humiliating it could embarrass

00:34:31 --> 00:34:31

her.

00:34:31 --> 00:34:33

It could cause her not to want to

00:34:33 --> 00:34:35

come back to the relationship because this verse

00:34:35 --> 00:34:38

is meant to between spouses.

00:34:38 --> 00:34:41

The purpose of the verse the objective is

00:34:41 --> 00:34:41

reconciliation.

00:34:42 --> 00:34:43

How do we know that?

00:34:43 --> 00:34:47

Because this is a woman who is not

00:34:47 --> 00:34:50

reacting to her husband who wants to stay

00:34:50 --> 00:34:52

in her marriage but is doing something which

00:34:52 --> 00:34:54

we didn't talk about actually all the conditions

00:34:54 --> 00:34:56

of what nushuz is because it can range

00:34:56 --> 00:34:59

for so many different things but the point

00:34:59 --> 00:35:00

and I'm so sorry just because we're this

00:35:00 --> 00:35:03

is just like a truncated version of the

00:35:03 --> 00:35:06

tafsir but the point is that this is

00:35:06 --> 00:35:08

a marriage they both want to stay in.

00:35:08 --> 00:35:10

They want to reconcile between one another.

00:35:11 --> 00:35:12

We tried communication.

00:35:13 --> 00:35:16

We tried a symbolic gesture of leaving the

00:35:16 --> 00:35:16

bed.

00:35:16 --> 00:35:21

Now even if there's a symbolic gesture so

00:35:21 --> 00:35:25

many different scholars like Sheikh Jamal Suleiman.

00:35:25 --> 00:35:27

There are so many scholars of our past

00:35:27 --> 00:35:30

who said even if emotionally it would harm

00:35:30 --> 00:35:33

her this symbolic act it is haram to

00:35:33 --> 00:35:33

use.

00:35:33 --> 00:35:34

It is prohibited.

00:35:35 --> 00:35:37

It is prohibited.

00:35:38 --> 00:35:40

It is haram to use this part of

00:35:40 --> 00:35:43

the verse if it doesn't make a woman

00:35:43 --> 00:35:45

feel like she wants to reconcile with her

00:35:45 --> 00:35:46

husband.

00:35:46 --> 00:35:48

Now Ibn Ashur again the scholar that we

00:35:48 --> 00:35:52

mentioned earlier he says that sometimes in some

00:35:52 --> 00:35:56

societies men are not going to have spiritual

00:35:56 --> 00:35:57

connections with God.

00:35:57 --> 00:36:00

They are not going to have physical restraint.

00:36:00 --> 00:36:02

They are going to see this verse and

00:36:02 --> 00:36:04

they are going to say that it gives

00:36:04 --> 00:36:05

them the right to hit their wife without

00:36:05 --> 00:36:08

thinking about all of the commentary we just

00:36:08 --> 00:36:12

discussed and in that case the authorities must

00:36:12 --> 00:36:14

make an edict that no man is allowed

00:36:14 --> 00:36:17

to use this verse because men will not

00:36:17 --> 00:36:20

have the ability to discern how they can

00:36:20 --> 00:36:22

use it in a way that reconciles between

00:36:22 --> 00:36:25

their family versus doing it out of anger

00:36:25 --> 00:36:27

because darb out of anger is haram.

00:36:28 --> 00:36:31

Darb out of emotional frustration is haram.

00:36:32 --> 00:36:34

It's supposed to be a tool of reconciliation

00:36:34 --> 00:36:36

which in our context might not make any

00:36:36 --> 00:36:38

sense but the Quran is forever.

00:36:39 --> 00:36:41

It made sense in their culture.

00:36:41 --> 00:36:43

It might make sense in another culture that

00:36:43 --> 00:36:44

exists right now in our time.

00:36:45 --> 00:36:46

It might make sense in a culture 500

00:36:46 --> 00:36:47

years from now.

00:36:48 --> 00:36:50

The Quran is forever but if it doesn't

00:36:50 --> 00:36:53

make sense to our context to our family

00:36:53 --> 00:36:56

unit scholars have said it is impermissible to

00:36:56 --> 00:36:58

use because the point is reconciliation.

00:36:59 --> 00:37:00

If it's not going to bring a couple

00:37:00 --> 00:37:02

back together it is not permissible to use

00:37:02 --> 00:37:03

this part of the verse.

00:37:03 --> 00:37:06

Now even saying all of that a Dasuki

00:37:06 --> 00:37:09

who is a Maliki judge from like hundreds

00:37:09 --> 00:37:12

of years ago he had cases of women

00:37:12 --> 00:37:14

who would come to him complaining of domestic

00:37:14 --> 00:37:17

violence and what he would issue is that

00:37:17 --> 00:37:22

the husband of this relationship would be physically

00:37:22 --> 00:37:26

beaten because of him physically beating his wife

00:37:26 --> 00:37:31

so the retribution was to physically assault the

00:37:31 --> 00:37:33

husband to realize the pain that he has

00:37:33 --> 00:37:35

caused his wife and of course a woman

00:37:35 --> 00:37:37

has the right for a fuss.

00:37:37 --> 00:37:38

She's already in front of a judge.

00:37:39 --> 00:37:40

She has the right to ask for the

00:37:40 --> 00:37:42

dissolution of a marriage and in that case

00:37:42 --> 00:37:44

that the even if she doesn't have the

00:37:44 --> 00:37:47

financial support of whether it's the ex-husband

00:37:47 --> 00:37:49

or the family to provide for her in

00:37:49 --> 00:37:51

whatever the situation is it's always situational then

00:37:51 --> 00:37:55

there's always the court who can require that

00:37:55 --> 00:37:57

she has a stipulated amount of wealth that

00:37:57 --> 00:37:59

she's given so she's not financially left alone

00:37:59 --> 00:38:03

but the point is even if this ayah

00:38:03 --> 00:38:07

is looked at as a a symbolic tab

00:38:07 --> 00:38:10

even if it's an emotional even if it

00:38:10 --> 00:38:12

causes emotional wounds it's not allowed to be

00:38:12 --> 00:38:15

used and the other understanding of this verse

00:38:15 --> 00:38:18

is from Ata Ibn Abi Rabah who is

00:38:18 --> 00:38:22

one of the foremost scholars of the Tabi

00:38:22 --> 00:38:24

'in who came right after the companions and

00:38:24 --> 00:38:27

he is a student of Ibn Abbas who

00:38:27 --> 00:38:29

was considered the commentator of the Quran of

00:38:29 --> 00:38:33

the companions and he mentions that this verse

00:38:33 --> 00:38:37

is not to be understood physically because the

00:38:37 --> 00:38:38

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him as Aisha

00:38:38 --> 00:38:41

mentioned never harmed a woman.

00:38:41 --> 00:38:42

He never hit a woman.

00:38:42 --> 00:38:43

He never hit a servant.

00:38:44 --> 00:38:47

The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam said by what

00:38:47 --> 00:38:50

right does one of you hit your wife?

00:38:50 --> 00:38:51

By what right?

00:38:52 --> 00:38:55

The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam never hit a

00:38:55 --> 00:38:55

woman.

00:38:56 --> 00:38:58

He never sanctioned for marriages.

00:38:59 --> 00:39:01

The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam did not appreciate

00:39:01 --> 00:39:03

for marriages to look like this and he

00:39:03 --> 00:39:05

said that the best of men are not

00:39:05 --> 00:39:08

like this and these are just summarizing the

00:39:08 --> 00:39:09

ahadith.

00:39:09 --> 00:39:11

So this is not from the example of

00:39:11 --> 00:39:12

the Prophet peace be upon him.

00:39:13 --> 00:39:16

So Ata's understanding of this verse is not

00:39:16 --> 00:39:17

a physical one.

00:39:17 --> 00:39:19

It's that it means to show that he's

00:39:19 --> 00:39:22

angry by expressing his emotional anger and to

00:39:22 --> 00:39:24

separate himself to walk away to separate himself

00:39:24 --> 00:39:28

from his spouse and finally the end of

00:39:28 --> 00:39:32

this ayah ends with Allah mentions two of

00:39:32 --> 00:39:36

his names that he is the most high

00:39:36 --> 00:39:37

and all great.

00:39:38 --> 00:39:38

Why?

00:39:39 --> 00:39:41

Ibn Kathir mentions that Allah ends this verse

00:39:41 --> 00:39:42

with these two names.

00:39:42 --> 00:39:44

He is the most high.

00:39:44 --> 00:39:46

He is higher than anyone who chooses to

00:39:46 --> 00:39:49

abuse their partner because abuse is not about

00:39:49 --> 00:39:51

her doing something wrong.

00:39:51 --> 00:39:55

It's not about her messing up.

00:39:55 --> 00:39:57

It's about power and control.

00:39:57 --> 00:40:03

It is an abuse of power and control

00:40:03 --> 00:40:06

and so when a man feels himself so

00:40:06 --> 00:40:09

high and mighty who is higher than him?

00:40:09 --> 00:40:10

Allah.

00:40:10 --> 00:40:12

When it's about power and control who has

00:40:12 --> 00:40:13

more power and control?

00:40:14 --> 00:40:14

Allah.

00:40:14 --> 00:40:16

Who is greater than this man?

00:40:16 --> 00:40:17

It is Allah.

00:40:17 --> 00:40:20

So Allah is the most high and the

00:40:20 --> 00:40:24

all great and in that context Ibn Kathir

00:40:24 --> 00:40:27

the commentator of the Quran mentions it means

00:40:27 --> 00:40:30

that Allah is the wali of women.

00:40:30 --> 00:40:33

Allah is the one who supports women.

00:40:33 --> 00:40:34

Allah is the one who's got the back

00:40:34 --> 00:40:35

of women.

00:40:35 --> 00:40:36

This is a threat.

00:40:37 --> 00:40:40

It is Allah threatening men that if they

00:40:40 --> 00:40:43

use this concept in a way that harms

00:40:43 --> 00:40:46

the relationship that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala

00:40:46 --> 00:40:50

is on the side of women and note

00:40:50 --> 00:40:53

that when we're talking about this ayah there

00:40:53 --> 00:40:56

are verses of the Quran like pray, establish

00:40:56 --> 00:40:58

prayer, give zakah, go for hajj.

00:40:58 --> 00:40:59

They are rulings.

00:40:59 --> 00:41:01

They are religious rulings that must be implemented.

00:41:02 --> 00:41:04

This verse is not a legal ruling.

00:41:04 --> 00:41:05

It is a cultural ruling.

00:41:06 --> 00:41:08

There are verses of the Quran that are

00:41:08 --> 00:41:10

not legal but they are cultural.

00:41:10 --> 00:41:11

What does that mean?

00:41:12 --> 00:41:14

It means that women can put in their

00:41:14 --> 00:41:17

contract that they do not want someone to

00:41:17 --> 00:41:21

implement a particular type, something.

00:41:21 --> 00:41:25

The next verse, I believe it's the verse

00:41:25 --> 00:41:28

immediately after this, yes, that Allah subhanahu wa

00:41:28 --> 00:41:31

ta'ala says to bring people from both

00:41:31 --> 00:41:33

parties of their families or other people who

00:41:33 --> 00:41:36

can kind of be mediators, who can be

00:41:36 --> 00:41:39

you know therapy, go to therapy, find people

00:41:39 --> 00:41:41

in your family who can support you to

00:41:41 --> 00:41:43

process your pain, go to professionals.

00:41:43 --> 00:41:46

The Quran literally talks about different forms of

00:41:46 --> 00:41:49

mediation in the verse immediately after this but

00:41:49 --> 00:41:52

we look at the example of Atika she

00:41:52 --> 00:41:53

was the wife of Umar.

00:41:54 --> 00:41:57

When she got married to Umar she stipulated

00:41:57 --> 00:42:00

in her marriage contract that he could not

00:42:00 --> 00:42:02

physically harm her and then after he passed

00:42:02 --> 00:42:07

away she got married to a Zubair she

00:42:07 --> 00:42:11

put in her contract to Zubair that he

00:42:11 --> 00:42:12

cannot physically harm her.

00:42:13 --> 00:42:15

If this verse was about physical harm can

00:42:15 --> 00:42:17

you put in your contract something that goes

00:42:17 --> 00:42:17

against the Quran?

00:42:18 --> 00:42:18

No.

00:42:18 --> 00:42:21

So that means this verse isn't about physically

00:42:21 --> 00:42:24

harming someone because women amongst the prophet peace

00:42:24 --> 00:42:26

be upon him themselves put in their contract

00:42:26 --> 00:42:28

it is not permissible to harm me in

00:42:28 --> 00:42:29

their marriage contract itself.

00:42:30 --> 00:42:33

So when we look at the whole system

00:42:33 --> 00:42:36

of Islamic law there are so many ways

00:42:36 --> 00:42:38

in which women are supposed to be cared

00:42:38 --> 00:42:41

for, supported, that woman can choose if she

00:42:41 --> 00:42:43

wants to work or stay home and be

00:42:43 --> 00:42:45

with her children and she has the support

00:42:45 --> 00:42:48

to do that but if God forbid there's

00:42:48 --> 00:42:51

ever a situation whereas woman have approached me

00:42:51 --> 00:42:54

and told me that her husband has put

00:42:54 --> 00:42:56

a knife to her neck and she went

00:42:56 --> 00:43:00

to her local imam and he said go

00:43:00 --> 00:43:02

home and pray and be patient and try

00:43:02 --> 00:43:03

to seduce him.

00:43:04 --> 00:43:07

I was sick to my stomach hearing this

00:43:07 --> 00:43:12

because unfortunately so many of our amazing individuals

00:43:12 --> 00:43:15

and religious leadership have been trained in different

00:43:15 --> 00:43:17

areas of fiqh but not in this one

00:43:17 --> 00:43:19

and that's why it's so important to realize

00:43:19 --> 00:43:21

when you talk to a scholar and they

00:43:21 --> 00:43:24

are not able to give you 700 interpretations

00:43:24 --> 00:43:27

of what something means maybe that's not their

00:43:27 --> 00:43:28

field.

00:43:28 --> 00:43:30

Maybe their field is in the fiqh of

00:43:30 --> 00:43:31

something else.

00:43:31 --> 00:43:34

Maybe their focus has been in a different

00:43:34 --> 00:43:35

part of Islamic law.

00:43:35 --> 00:43:36

Islamic law is enormous.

00:43:36 --> 00:43:38

We have lawyers or immigration lawyers.

00:43:38 --> 00:43:39

We have lawyers for companies.

00:43:39 --> 00:43:40

We have lawyers for everything.

00:43:40 --> 00:43:43

Islamic law has fields in every part.

00:43:43 --> 00:43:45

So when we hear people of knowledge maybe

00:43:45 --> 00:43:48

making a statement that sounds terrifying maybe that's

00:43:48 --> 00:43:51

not their field or maybe they're quoting someone

00:43:51 --> 00:43:54

who held that particular opinion but there are

00:43:54 --> 00:43:57

scholars who have so many opinions that reflect

00:43:57 --> 00:44:01

the axioms of Islamic law which are the

00:44:01 --> 00:44:07

sanctity of life, the sanctity of intelligence, the

00:44:07 --> 00:44:10

sanctity, the preservation of family, of faith, of

00:44:10 --> 00:44:13

so many different parts of an individual's being

00:44:13 --> 00:44:17

because Islamic law cares for our physical self,

00:44:17 --> 00:44:22

our mental self, our intimate selves and our

00:44:22 --> 00:44:24

spiritual selves and that's why a verse like

00:44:24 --> 00:44:27

this is intended to bring peace to a

00:44:27 --> 00:44:29

family and if ever not seen like that

00:44:29 --> 00:44:33

then remember the next verse which are different

00:44:33 --> 00:44:34

ways for a family to come back together

00:44:34 --> 00:44:36

with the support of other people and I

00:44:36 --> 00:44:38

know that we have inshallah dedicated a little

00:44:38 --> 00:44:39

bit of time for questioning so I'm going

00:44:39 --> 00:44:39

to end here.

00:44:45 --> 00:44:50

Such a beautiful insightful overview of verse 434

00:44:50 --> 00:44:57

subhanallah and just mashallah how much protection we

00:44:57 --> 00:44:59

get you know with the physical the emotional

00:44:59 --> 00:45:02

the you've just kind of nailed it but

00:45:02 --> 00:45:04

unfortunately in the reality of things and this

00:45:04 --> 00:45:08

is kind of why Nisa exists is because

00:45:08 --> 00:45:11

of course it's just ignored most of the

00:45:11 --> 00:45:13

time you know that's the reality of the

00:45:13 --> 00:45:16

situation but of course subhanallah the Quran is

00:45:16 --> 00:45:17

a blueprint for us and we know that

00:45:17 --> 00:45:20

we are protected in every possible way.

00:45:21 --> 00:45:24

You mentioned mashallah you've pretty much covered everything

00:45:24 --> 00:45:26

that I could possibly have thought of asking

00:45:26 --> 00:45:28

you but in the last few moments you've

00:45:28 --> 00:45:31

just mentioned sabr this is something that comes

00:45:31 --> 00:45:35

up very often what does it mean to

00:45:35 --> 00:45:37

be patient like you said many people will

00:45:37 --> 00:45:39

just send people women away and say you

00:45:39 --> 00:45:41

know be patient it will be okay just

00:45:41 --> 00:45:44

just sit back and Allah is there for

00:45:44 --> 00:45:46

you right right just be patient with the

00:45:46 --> 00:45:48

situation and it will get better for you

00:45:48 --> 00:45:51

what does it mean to have sabr and

00:45:51 --> 00:45:55

how can we proactively have that patience patience

00:45:55 --> 00:45:57

is not allowing someone to beat you or

00:45:57 --> 00:46:01

to physically and emotionally consistently neglect and harm

00:46:01 --> 00:46:04

you and then making dua and then wondering

00:46:04 --> 00:46:06

why Allah isn't answering your dua many times

00:46:06 --> 00:46:08

when we tell women just pray harder they

00:46:08 --> 00:46:12

don't wonder what's wrong with their situation and

00:46:12 --> 00:46:14

what change they should make of course it's

00:46:14 --> 00:46:17

already very difficult to be in that situation

00:46:17 --> 00:46:20

many times they have they have experienced years

00:46:20 --> 00:46:22

of psychological trauma sometimes they come from backgrounds

00:46:22 --> 00:46:24

where maybe that was the reality of their

00:46:24 --> 00:46:26

family and now they're going through it with

00:46:26 --> 00:46:28

their own nuclear their their own husband and

00:46:28 --> 00:46:30

their new nuclear family and so when they're

00:46:30 --> 00:46:33

told to be patient and pray they're wondering

00:46:33 --> 00:46:36

why isn't Allah listening to me they start

00:46:36 --> 00:46:38

questioning why are my duas not being answered

00:46:38 --> 00:46:40

is it because I'm not a good enough

00:46:40 --> 00:46:42

believer she's not a good enough believer as

00:46:42 --> 00:46:45

she's being beat as she's being psychologically constantly

00:46:45 --> 00:46:48

being told that she's all of these disgusting

00:46:48 --> 00:46:50

things that she's been told and and it's

00:46:50 --> 00:46:53

because Allah's not answering her no it's because

00:46:53 --> 00:46:55

when we make dua we also need to

00:46:55 --> 00:46:58

take action and it is very hard to

00:46:58 --> 00:47:02

tell a survivor a victim that you need

00:47:02 --> 00:47:04

to take action and we shouldn't have to

00:47:04 --> 00:47:05

put it on her to be the one

00:47:05 --> 00:47:06

to take action because it shouldn't be happening

00:47:06 --> 00:47:08

in the first place but the reality is

00:47:08 --> 00:47:11

that when someone comes to us and they

00:47:11 --> 00:47:13

tell us I mean subhanAllah when they tell

00:47:13 --> 00:47:17

us that they're going through this us telling

00:47:17 --> 00:47:20

them be patient is never the answer ever

00:47:20 --> 00:47:22

we should never say you need to be

00:47:22 --> 00:47:25

patient what we should say is how can

00:47:25 --> 00:47:28

we support you by giving you all of

00:47:28 --> 00:47:31

these resources here is Nessa's hotline here are

00:47:31 --> 00:47:33

all the other resources that you can have

00:47:33 --> 00:47:36

and my my response to you is how

00:47:36 --> 00:47:39

can I be patient me as a supporter

00:47:39 --> 00:47:42

of you in helping you explore your options

00:47:42 --> 00:47:44

so that we can figure out what is

00:47:44 --> 00:47:46

the best path for you to take of

00:47:46 --> 00:47:47

course we need to take into account the

00:47:47 --> 00:47:48

fact that there may be children in the

00:47:48 --> 00:47:51

home and I've had women who are being

00:47:51 --> 00:47:54

physically beaten regularly who are hiding in the

00:47:54 --> 00:47:57

bathroom so that her husband doesn't harm her

00:47:57 --> 00:47:59

these are so real I hear from cases

00:47:59 --> 00:48:02

like this a woman who have approached one

00:48:02 --> 00:48:04

person after another who are simply told to

00:48:04 --> 00:48:05

hold on hold on for what for the

00:48:05 --> 00:48:08

sake of their children for the sake of

00:48:08 --> 00:48:10

their children not to have a home this

00:48:10 --> 00:48:12

is not a broken home you being physically

00:48:12 --> 00:48:14

beat your children being physically beat is not

00:48:14 --> 00:48:17

a broken home for them to see that

00:48:17 --> 00:48:21

their their their their father that this is

00:48:22 --> 00:48:26

acceptable that they deserve this what we need

00:48:26 --> 00:48:27

to do as a community and as a

00:48:27 --> 00:48:30

community we need to have patience as we

00:48:30 --> 00:48:33

change the structures of our community so that

00:48:33 --> 00:48:36

when we have khutbas when we have regular

00:48:36 --> 00:48:40

community discussions when we overemphasize with you know

00:48:40 --> 00:48:42

of course modesty is so important in our

00:48:42 --> 00:48:45

religion but the obsession over hijab we need

00:48:45 --> 00:48:47

to have patience in changing that narrative so

00:48:47 --> 00:48:50

we are obsessed over ensuring that women and

00:48:50 --> 00:48:53

men are not ever in a position when

00:48:53 --> 00:48:55

they are victims of domestic violence and we

00:48:55 --> 00:48:57

know that even men are victims of domestic

00:48:57 --> 00:48:59

violence in our own community we know that

00:48:59 --> 00:49:04

boys are are victims of sexual abuse in

00:49:04 --> 00:49:05

our own community and they can't tell anyone

00:49:05 --> 00:49:08

because they are men and so when we

00:49:08 --> 00:49:11

change that culture for our entire community and

00:49:11 --> 00:49:13

we have patience through that change then we

00:49:13 --> 00:49:15

can create a community which honors men and

00:49:15 --> 00:49:17

women who are going through this which honors

00:49:17 --> 00:49:19

the children who are going through this and

00:49:19 --> 00:49:21

who can support them through this process so

00:49:21 --> 00:49:24

I recommend for a person whoever is told

00:49:24 --> 00:49:26

to be patient to turn that question back

00:49:26 --> 00:49:29

around and to ask them are you going

00:49:29 --> 00:49:32

to be patient while you are beaten would

00:49:32 --> 00:49:34

you be patient and what would you what

00:49:34 --> 00:49:36

would you do because really no woman no

00:49:36 --> 00:49:38

man no child should ever be in a

00:49:38 --> 00:49:39

situation where they are told to be patient

00:49:39 --> 00:49:42

for being beaten that is absolutely unacceptable in

00:49:42 --> 00:49:45

islamic law it is unacceptable in in american

00:49:45 --> 00:49:47

law it is simply unacceptable in front of

00:49:47 --> 00:49:52

allah thank you mariam i appreciate that um

00:49:52 --> 00:49:54

we have a question in the chat box

00:49:54 --> 00:49:57

actually from sahar who is our program manager

00:49:57 --> 00:49:58

i don't know if you're able to see

00:49:58 --> 00:50:03

it um of course she says um we

00:50:03 --> 00:50:05

i mean we greatly appreciate you clearly describing

00:50:05 --> 00:50:08

the rights and responsibilities of couples especially of

00:50:08 --> 00:50:10

course um you know husbands and wives and

00:50:10 --> 00:50:14

and how surah 434 talks about and outlines

00:50:14 --> 00:50:16

um the family relations in particular the relationship

00:50:16 --> 00:50:18

of a husband and wife like you had

00:50:18 --> 00:50:21

um mentioned in the event that these guidelines

00:50:21 --> 00:50:24

are not followed which is unfortunately the case

00:50:24 --> 00:50:26

in so many so many and this is

00:50:26 --> 00:50:28

of course when nisa comes in what resources

00:50:28 --> 00:50:30

and are available for women to obtain support

00:50:30 --> 00:50:33

from the muslim leadership with matters of divorce

00:50:33 --> 00:50:36

um children financial support and she's obviously been

00:50:36 --> 00:50:40

with nisa for since 2006 um and we

00:50:40 --> 00:50:44

do find it very difficult to leverage in

00:50:44 --> 00:50:47

the right resources um when we are in

00:50:47 --> 00:50:49

in you know in cases of domestic violence

00:50:49 --> 00:50:52

unfortunately as of course as you're seeing the

00:50:52 --> 00:50:53

visibility of nisa is growing so are the

00:50:53 --> 00:50:56

needs um they've always been there of course

00:50:56 --> 00:50:58

we've got those women subhanallah who are brave

00:50:58 --> 00:51:01

enough to leave the home and and and

00:51:01 --> 00:51:03

you know we we keep them in the

00:51:03 --> 00:51:05

shelters or you know they're able to kind

00:51:05 --> 00:51:08

of lead that situation but many the majority

00:51:08 --> 00:51:10

do not like you said they hide in

00:51:10 --> 00:51:12

bathrooms they still endure the pain the suffering

00:51:12 --> 00:51:17

um so you know just kind of brainstorming

00:51:17 --> 00:51:20

almost like of course we want to be

00:51:20 --> 00:51:21

more visible we want people to know that

00:51:21 --> 00:51:25

this place exists nisa does exist but how

00:51:25 --> 00:51:28

can we even make it more accessible um

00:51:28 --> 00:51:31

of course leveraging in more professional support because

00:51:31 --> 00:51:33

this is not just for people who want

00:51:33 --> 00:51:35

to do good in an organization we really

00:51:35 --> 00:51:37

do like you said have the right kind

00:51:37 --> 00:51:40

of support for these women and children in

00:51:40 --> 00:51:43

particular like you said subhanallah our resources are

00:51:43 --> 00:51:45

now we are you know reaching out to

00:51:45 --> 00:51:47

those children as well we're trying to support

00:51:47 --> 00:51:48

them in the best possible way that we

00:51:48 --> 00:51:52

can um but in an ideal situation or

00:51:52 --> 00:51:55

what would you recommend what would you suggest

00:51:55 --> 00:51:58

mariam it's you know one of the challenges

00:51:58 --> 00:52:01

is that everything is being built from the

00:52:01 --> 00:52:03

ground up right now and the ground for

00:52:03 --> 00:52:05

the muslim community often looks like spaces where

00:52:05 --> 00:52:07

women are not even necessarily welcome into the

00:52:07 --> 00:52:10

masjid or if they are welcome into the

00:52:10 --> 00:52:13

masjid they are afterthoughts there are masajid many

00:52:13 --> 00:52:15

masajid where mashallah they have you know large

00:52:15 --> 00:52:18

women's sections and they have facilities for women

00:52:18 --> 00:52:20

to be supported but their needs are not

00:52:20 --> 00:52:24

reflected on the board composition and even having

00:52:24 --> 00:52:28

women on board positions their voice is not

00:52:28 --> 00:52:30

often held with as much weight as the

00:52:30 --> 00:52:32

men's voice on those boards and so that

00:52:32 --> 00:52:35

of course impacts the policy of the which

00:52:35 --> 00:52:40

creates community culture when we have policies we

00:52:40 --> 00:52:43

create culture when our culture is not reflective

00:52:43 --> 00:52:46

of the needs of the attendees of the

00:52:46 --> 00:52:48

masjid space of the muslim community when we

00:52:48 --> 00:52:50

are not able to come to the masjid

00:52:50 --> 00:52:53

when we are going through the millions of

00:52:53 --> 00:52:55

things that young people go through right now

00:52:55 --> 00:52:58

from depression to suicide attempts to struggling with

00:52:58 --> 00:53:00

their identity in every single way to being

00:53:00 --> 00:53:02

abused by their own family members there are

00:53:02 --> 00:53:05

a million a million struggles that young people

00:53:05 --> 00:53:07

face that woman face that men face in

00:53:07 --> 00:53:10

our community that are not being reflected in

00:53:10 --> 00:53:12

the khutbas which are consistently recycling the same

00:53:12 --> 00:53:15

things a lot of times when they come

00:53:15 --> 00:53:16

to women they often have to do with

00:53:16 --> 00:53:19

the importance of modesty marriage and motherhood which

00:53:19 --> 00:53:20

are so beautiful and so wonderful and so

00:53:20 --> 00:53:22

important but literally not everything that a woman

00:53:22 --> 00:53:24

goes through and so when that is the

00:53:24 --> 00:53:26

community narrative it does become so much more

00:53:26 --> 00:53:30

difficult to include conversations on domestic violence because

00:53:30 --> 00:53:33

it's seen like the exception and not the

00:53:33 --> 00:53:36

rule and we pray that it's the exception

00:53:36 --> 00:53:38

and not the rule but the problem is

00:53:38 --> 00:53:40

even when it's the exception we don't have

00:53:40 --> 00:53:45

systems of accountability to to support the process

00:53:45 --> 00:53:47

so without the systems of accountability in place

00:53:47 --> 00:53:50

because there isn't an urgency felt because it's

00:53:50 --> 00:53:53

not reflected in even the most basic day

00:53:53 --> 00:53:56

weekly conversation of the muslim community then where

00:53:56 --> 00:53:58

do we expect how do we expect like

00:53:58 --> 00:54:01

the khalil center or peaceful families project or

00:54:01 --> 00:54:05

amal's shelter or um maristan with dr rania

00:54:05 --> 00:54:10

what's uh mental health program like organization all

00:54:10 --> 00:54:14

of these programs are seen as resources instead

00:54:14 --> 00:54:16

of pillars and what we need to do

00:54:16 --> 00:54:18

is shift the way we have these conversations

00:54:18 --> 00:54:21

so that they are literally pillars that as

00:54:21 --> 00:54:24

we you know financially support masajid we hold

00:54:24 --> 00:54:26

masajid accountable and we ask them how are

00:54:26 --> 00:54:30

these organizations integrated into your masjid that this

00:54:30 --> 00:54:34

donation to this masjid actually is conditioned upon

00:54:34 --> 00:54:39

this organization receiving this much starlight spotlight focus

00:54:39 --> 00:54:41

in this many khutbas a year in this

00:54:41 --> 00:54:43

many programs a year the point is that

00:54:43 --> 00:54:46

right now we don't live in the islamic

00:54:46 --> 00:54:48

law system where we have judges and we

00:54:48 --> 00:54:50

have courts and we have places we have

00:54:50 --> 00:54:52

organizations we have the police and we have

00:54:52 --> 00:54:55

organizations for the muslim community and the police

00:54:55 --> 00:54:58

is a very difficult just different discussion completely

00:54:58 --> 00:55:00

because of course then we have to talk

00:55:00 --> 00:55:03

about all of the realities of power and

00:55:03 --> 00:55:06

oppression and race and that impacts black muslims

00:55:06 --> 00:55:08

in our community it impacts so many muslims

00:55:08 --> 00:55:11

in our community so on one hand we

00:55:11 --> 00:55:15

have as a um a structure in islamic

00:55:15 --> 00:55:17

law which is supposed to support these things

00:55:17 --> 00:55:18

but we don't have that so we have

00:55:18 --> 00:55:20

organizations to rely on and we are not

00:55:20 --> 00:55:23

supporting our organizations because they're simply an organization

00:55:23 --> 00:55:25

to go to for support versus they need

00:55:25 --> 00:55:26

to be part of the pillar of the

00:55:26 --> 00:55:27

community and in order to do that we

00:55:27 --> 00:55:29

have to shift the way that we look

00:55:29 --> 00:55:31

at the function of the masjid and the

00:55:31 --> 00:55:32

community in general which again goes back to

00:55:32 --> 00:55:35

subuh that's a very long process and i

00:55:35 --> 00:55:36

wish that i had more of an answer

00:55:36 --> 00:55:40

to that but no that's you know that's

00:55:40 --> 00:55:43

that's beautiful mariam honestly that's very um it's

00:55:43 --> 00:55:45

very valid what you've just said and absolutely

00:55:45 --> 00:55:48

just collaborating more with these organizations that are

00:55:48 --> 00:55:50

set up there's definitely more than you know

00:55:50 --> 00:55:53

um it's more than an amazing start to

00:55:53 --> 00:55:55

do that and we are definitely doing a

00:55:55 --> 00:55:57

lot more outreach and connecting more to professionals

00:55:57 --> 00:56:01

who can help in these situations but absolutely

00:56:01 --> 00:56:03

the um the dialogue needs to be um

00:56:03 --> 00:56:06

a lot more um current we need to

00:56:06 --> 00:56:09

you know speak at the community level speak

00:56:09 --> 00:56:11

with masajids and alhamdulillah we have been pushing

00:56:11 --> 00:56:15

for that more there's more outreach um there's

00:56:15 --> 00:56:17

definitely a need for it but alhamdulillah you

00:56:17 --> 00:56:18

know it's not like i said it's not

00:56:18 --> 00:56:20

a problem that just exists with within a

00:56:20 --> 00:56:22

certain community it's a global issue it's something

00:56:22 --> 00:56:26

that you know affects women and men like

00:56:26 --> 00:56:28

you said and children and on on some

00:56:28 --> 00:56:32

level and um like i said yes i'm

00:56:32 --> 00:56:34

sorry can i just uh ask a follow

00:56:34 --> 00:56:37

-up question um salam alaikum this is saha

00:56:37 --> 00:56:39

uh so i you know i what i

00:56:39 --> 00:56:42

i i think what um what i usually

00:56:42 --> 00:56:44

look for and this is where i i

00:56:44 --> 00:56:46

get stuck is when uh when i have

00:56:46 --> 00:56:49

a client who's seeking support filing for an

00:56:49 --> 00:56:53

islamic divorce and when she you know reaches

00:56:53 --> 00:56:56

out to the resources that are available there's

00:56:56 --> 00:56:59

a lot of you know i guess dismissing

00:56:59 --> 00:57:02

of the dv and and and i've had

00:57:02 --> 00:57:04

a few clients who really you know devastated

00:57:04 --> 00:57:07

by the process of how difficult it was

00:57:07 --> 00:57:10

um to obtain that so i guess i

00:57:10 --> 00:57:13

wanted to know do you know of any

00:57:13 --> 00:57:17

you know any organization resource that i would

00:57:17 --> 00:57:21

be able to refer refer these ladies to

00:57:21 --> 00:57:24

who will have an understanding of dv and

00:57:24 --> 00:57:27

help them file for an islamic divorce currently

00:57:27 --> 00:57:29

i actually have two three clients who are

00:57:29 --> 00:57:33

actually searching for that though the only organizations

00:57:33 --> 00:57:35

that i personally know of um are are

00:57:35 --> 00:57:39

your organization and ml's um ml's shelter um

00:57:39 --> 00:57:41

as well as the peaceful families project and

00:57:41 --> 00:57:44

maristan khalil center those are the only ones

00:57:44 --> 00:57:45

that i know of and i know that

00:57:45 --> 00:57:46

many of them work with imams and they

00:57:46 --> 00:57:48

work with sheikhas so that they're able to

00:57:48 --> 00:57:51

um help facilitate the process of course um

00:57:51 --> 00:57:54

uh swiss which is sohebweb.com imam sohebweb

00:57:54 --> 00:57:56

used to be the imam of um the

00:57:56 --> 00:57:59

mca and uh mashallah you know these are

00:57:59 --> 00:58:01

these are imams who are on the forefront

00:58:01 --> 00:58:04

of supporting women and helping them process issues

00:58:04 --> 00:58:07

like this um and and hamdallah that we

00:58:07 --> 00:58:09

have so many of them in our community

00:58:09 --> 00:58:10

but as you mentioned we also have so

00:58:10 --> 00:58:13

many who who dismiss domestic violence and i

00:58:13 --> 00:58:15

think that's partly because they just really have

00:58:15 --> 00:58:17

this is not their field which is not

00:58:17 --> 00:58:18

an excuse i don't know if you should

00:58:18 --> 00:58:20

be an imam i mean like the thing

00:58:20 --> 00:58:22

is the problem is we we make the

00:58:22 --> 00:58:24

imam the the the judge the assignment in

00:58:24 --> 00:58:26

the islamic system he has become the judge

00:58:26 --> 00:58:29

the muslim therapist he's become the psychological counselor

00:58:29 --> 00:58:32

he's become everything when he's his real you

00:58:32 --> 00:58:34

know focus should be the spiritual lens which

00:58:34 --> 00:58:36

of course all of those things are impacted

00:58:36 --> 00:58:38

by that but they're not he's not supposed

00:58:38 --> 00:58:40

to be the judge the executioner the jury

00:58:40 --> 00:58:41

he's not supposed to be all of it

00:58:41 --> 00:58:43

but in our community he has become that

00:58:43 --> 00:58:45

because we don't have the system set up

00:58:45 --> 00:58:47

for it and so i think part of

00:58:47 --> 00:58:49

the process and i don't know uh personally

00:58:49 --> 00:58:51

to provide any other resources than the ones

00:58:51 --> 00:58:53

i mentioned unfortunately i wish i did and

00:58:53 --> 00:58:55

that's just my own fault it's not that

00:58:55 --> 00:58:57

they don't exist perhaps more do exist um

00:58:57 --> 00:58:59

and sheikha rania awad is maybe a great

00:58:59 --> 00:59:01

resource inshallah because of her specialty and her

00:59:01 --> 00:59:04

work in this field especially looking at mental

00:59:04 --> 00:59:06

mental health in the muslim field in the

00:59:06 --> 00:59:08

muslim community and doing so much research in

00:59:08 --> 00:59:10

that but i think the point is that

00:59:10 --> 00:59:15

we need to move away from a a

00:59:15 --> 00:59:19

structure in which nisa is coming and saying

00:59:19 --> 00:59:23

let me introduce myself to your masjid where

00:59:23 --> 00:59:27

instead the masjids are we are we are

00:59:27 --> 00:59:28

outreaching and we are bringing in all these

00:59:28 --> 00:59:31

organizations the onus of responsibility shouldn't be on

00:59:31 --> 00:59:33

an organization to come in and say let's

00:59:33 --> 00:59:36

provide our resources every message to say this

00:59:36 --> 00:59:39

is this is so critical in our community

00:59:39 --> 00:59:40

our imam is not trained for this because

00:59:40 --> 00:59:42

most imams are not and that's not a

00:59:42 --> 00:59:43

fault on the imam they were never supposed

00:59:43 --> 00:59:45

to be all of these things and instead

00:59:45 --> 00:59:47

here is the process that we have in

00:59:47 --> 00:59:49

place that we are working with lawyers social

00:59:49 --> 00:59:52

workers and we are working with uh we

00:59:52 --> 00:59:55

are working with organizations that explicitly do this

00:59:55 --> 00:59:59

work to have a streamlined process on what

00:59:59 --> 01:00:00

a woman goes through we don't have that

01:00:00 --> 01:00:02

right now we have you know women who

01:00:02 --> 01:00:04

are coming to you may allah bless you

01:00:04 --> 01:00:07

so much for therapy and then not knowing

01:00:07 --> 01:00:08

where to go after that because we just

01:00:08 --> 01:00:11

don't have that system and that's i think

01:00:11 --> 01:00:12

that goes back to the fact that we

01:00:12 --> 01:00:14

don't we're not reflecting the needs of our

01:00:14 --> 01:00:17

community yet and inshallah we will one day

01:00:17 --> 01:00:19

um it's a process to get there and

01:00:19 --> 01:00:22

and i'm as angry and frustrated as you

01:00:22 --> 01:00:25

are in that process we're you know very

01:00:25 --> 01:00:27

grateful i know we're at 1105 literally now

01:00:27 --> 01:00:30

um i i just want to honestly just

01:00:30 --> 01:00:31

from the bottom of my heart say thank

01:00:31 --> 01:00:33

you so so much for joining us and

01:00:33 --> 01:00:38

imparting really such amazing knowledge i've learned so

01:00:38 --> 01:00:40

much i've taken notes as as i've been

01:00:40 --> 01:00:42

listening to you um so much of this

01:00:42 --> 01:00:46

that honestly things get misinterpreted along the way

01:00:46 --> 01:00:49

you know people have their own ideas about

01:00:49 --> 01:00:52

things but mashallah you just went right into

01:00:52 --> 01:00:55

it in so much detail and depth and

01:00:55 --> 01:00:58

um you honestly like i said um you

01:00:58 --> 01:01:01

answered questions that i had and you just

01:01:01 --> 01:01:04

kind of knew and you just um mashallah

01:01:04 --> 01:01:06

just um went above and beyond and i

01:01:06 --> 01:01:09

really really do value your time you being

01:01:09 --> 01:01:11

with us today um i i know that

01:01:11 --> 01:01:13

inshallah hopefully in the future we can have

01:01:13 --> 01:01:17

you back again inshallah speaking but thank you

01:01:17 --> 01:01:19

so much for just carving time out for

01:01:19 --> 01:01:21

for us today and speaking with us and

01:01:21 --> 01:01:25

being so beautifully prepared and um just so

01:01:25 --> 01:01:29

sincere and genuine with how you communicated everything

01:01:29 --> 01:01:33

so no no it was such an honor

01:01:33 --> 01:01:34

thank you for the work that you do

01:01:34 --> 01:01:37

mashallah the work you do is so important

01:01:37 --> 01:01:40

and both of you like your entire organization

01:01:40 --> 01:01:42

you're asking me like what are the resources

01:01:42 --> 01:01:43

and i'm like nisa is the resource i

01:01:43 --> 01:01:45

give everyone so may allah bless you may

01:01:45 --> 01:01:47

allah reward you make your work so successful

01:01:47 --> 01:01:52

make your work completely unnecessary and facilitate the

01:01:52 --> 01:01:54

best for you thank you so much for

01:01:54 --> 01:01:58

having me once again for your time um

01:01:58 --> 01:02:02

for your knowledge everything really and um i

01:02:02 --> 01:02:03

i can only thank you so do you

01:02:03 --> 01:02:06

have any final words for for mariam i

01:02:06 --> 01:02:08

know yeah i just wanted to thank you

01:02:08 --> 01:02:09

as well i think it was an amazing

01:02:09 --> 01:02:12

um talk and you know we gain a

01:02:12 --> 01:02:14

lot of clarification with the questions that do

01:02:14 --> 01:02:17

come up very often so jazakallah thank you

01:02:17 --> 01:02:19

thank you so much for the work thank

01:02:19 --> 01:02:23

you once again in regards to your family

01:02:25 --> 01:02:25

i can see

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