Channel: Mansoor Danish
Is uttering Instant Triple Talaq valid in Islam? How do the Muslim view the new Triple Talaq Bill passed in the Indian Lok Sabha.
The recent Triple Talaq Bill has created uproar in the country with many questioning its validity and logic. If the Supreme Court already made the instant Triple Talaq null and void, what sense would it make for the lawmakers to make this a cognizable offence?
In this video, Mansoor Danish discusses with Umar Shariff, President (Mission Possible for Justice and Rights) on the Triple Talaq Bill and its loopholes. We also touch on other issues like New Year Celebrations and the Islamic perspective on the same and an upcoming event in Kolkata.
© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.
Salam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh I'm just going live once again. Hopefully this time we'll be able to sort out.
aleikum wa Alaykum wa salam on Hi How are you? I'm doing Nice to see you. Nice to see you too My Salah waiting for you to come to your favorite city, the city of Kolkata
very soon inshallah 26th should be with you in sha Allah and Allah inshallah look forward to that. Just to welcome everyone who's watching this video live of salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. We are joined by brother Omar Sharif, may Allah subhanho wa Taala
you know, bless us that we have been able to come forward and attend this short session where we will be talking about three or three three topics that we really taken up today. One is something which has political
implications implication, the other is one which has religious significance. And the third is one which combines all of the two right or by ICA in combines politics as well as religion.
So the first topic that we will be taking up is the issue of triple talaq. And this is a topic which has been going on for a long time. And recently, in the Lok Sabha, the Indian Parliament, the bill was passed, which makes it a cognizable offence to utter the word chip tala instantly intrigued, you know, the other three times in one go. Now, we've already had a lot of discussions on this. But let's let's give it some more perspective on our pie. What is your view on this bill, which has been passed? How do you see this panning out in the future?
I really liked what
c said, you know, the criminalizing of this issue. It doesn't fit in, within the constitutional rights. Because this issue is a civil issue where in America is a contract between two members. And to criminalize for uttering talaq thrice at one room is really not making sense to most of the people who know the law. And, and secondly, the fact that the Supreme Court and the most of the people today we're talking about law, they don't acknowledge the triple talaq to happen in one go, you know, when the crime doesn't take place, how can you actually put that person for a crime and punish him and send him to the jail? So that that really doesn't make sense.
Right. Okay, I seem to be I seem to have lost the audio so we just wait for the audio to come back.
We just wait for a couple of minutes. You know, just be patient. Yeah, yes.
Yeah, so a lot of intellectuals are raising the issue. We all agree that the triple talaq at one go is not right. And in fact, most of the Muslims in India don't give this triple talaq at one go actually, that they even consider it to be a de la cabeza de la cabeza is an equated way of giving the luck and which is really detested and about by the majority of the Muslims, and among the Shia, they don't consider this to be valid also, among the
valid also, amongst the four main schools of thought Shafi Hanafi, Hambali Maliki, they also consider it an innovative way of giving a lot, but they say it's a wrong way of giving it. So at the end of the day, they also don't say that is the right way of getting promoted.
promoted. We all feel good that there's a change coming up. But I would have felt very happy if the change was coming from our own community. If it had been without government interference, isn't it?
Yeah, because we all were expecting. Yeah, we've all expecting that there would be a committee which would be formed, for example, the recent padmavathi issue, the movie padmavathi when the issue went out of hand, they got a committee of people who were from the family, you know, allegedly from the family of padmavathi, etc. and from the royal families and from the film fraternity to come together and come to a conclusion to to come to a decision. The government did not interfere directly in this matter.
And it would have been better if the government would have involved people who were representative from the scholarly background as well as the Muslim women, right activists who have been raising up this issue, don't you think? So?
The claims of the government and the members of the BJP is that they want to help the Muslim women. You know, that's the claim that they make. But in fact, if you happen to see the Muslim men are the ones who always considerate about the Muslim women. It's quite nice, isn't it? Even when women
who can be more more caring than the Muslim men, for the men, and if you happen to
live in, in Gujarat, under the regime of our Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Modi, in his tenure, when the most Muslim women were raped in public and when a pregnant woman's stomach was slit open, and the baby was taken and killed under the threshold, who was raising the voice, what was it the sun
is raising the boys are the people who are talking about civil rights, and the Muslims are raising the voice, we are raising the voice, see, they claim 100 things but the people who really care for the Muslim women cannot be anybody other than the Muslim men. This has to be truly strongly drilled into the minds of the people you see. And you see, there's so much of a lack of name. When you see their claims, a
lot of things they promise a lot of things, but how much of it they actually value to whatever the utter is really a big question. And if you see this, this law, which they're trying to add on this, this bill that they're gonna pass, it says that if a person at
one go, he has to be sent to jail, yeah, they say that he has to be sent to jail for a period of three years. Yeah, non bailable is it by sending a person to the jail for three years, it is worse than talak. Because the person is giving Kala then a lady she can live in her own way, she can get married to someone, but here if a person he he is giving a tala tala is not considered as talaq and it is wide. And in that case, you send to the jail, then the lady she's she cannot choose another husband, and she has to wait for her husband who's gonna come after three years and then keep the law. I mean, I really don't understand this whole idea of one thing I want to say, the best way to
stop the law is that if a woman she loves her husband, by our heart, and if she's displaying her, her love to her actions, no man would want to give her luck. You see, it's, it's a two way, you know, even the man has to be caring, and he has to be having the sense of empathy. So it's a two way If love is there, then there are people who can, you know, walk 1000s of miles just for the sake of love, isn't it? True masala. And, in fact, what we had expected was that they would have actually, they would have actually suggested certain steps that could have been taken in order to ensure that these kind of practices get abolished completely. And no doubt that fear of law plays a very
important role. And I don't have an issue with them coming up with a strict rule provided, they had also come out with certain steps and suggestions on how the Muslim society can actually get involved in this matter, you know, having an arbitration being done under a Muslim scholar, a counselor who can sit together. I mean, none of these were discussed, it seems that they were in a haste to pass to pass a bill, which will immediately put the people the Muslim men specially criminalize
an action which has already been made null and void. I mean, if a triple lock is already made null and void, there is no point you know, giving a punishment for something which is not valid. Hello.
Let's see how this works out now in the Rajya Sabha. So we're going to have a special committee now sitting on this as well to see if there is ways this can be improved. We hope there is a wise sense which and Yeah,
actually, the divorce rate amongst the Muslims is the least actually the way they putting it across. It's something which is unnatural. The reality on grounds is that the Muslims are those who, who were practiced men who don't get divorced so easily, because it is not something which is considered to be praiseworthy to give divorce at once you see, and if you happen to see on the contrary, among the non Muslim there is a culture which is being recognized by the government and which is recognized by the Supreme Court. That is the living relationship and under
under the living relationship, a man
Without giving you a talaq, he says bye to the noise you can call it as a wife as
a concert, what are you saying, for time he lived with her. And when she feels that he doesn't want to carry this relation, he just says bye and he goes away and think about that case without you know, any divorce or kind of system any kind of maintenance and lady was got a child, what is her case? So when the people of India have accepted that culture, then how difficult is it for them to accept the triple talaq at one go? See, I'm not in favor of triple silahkan at one go, but at the same time, I want to check that step by which they are deciding what is right and what is wrong. So, if this is wrong, then even that is wrong, they have to also say, you know, live in relationship is
wrong and the way the relationship is also wrong. And we have to consider that to be wide From now on,
should be banned from no one. See, that's absolutely, absolutely. And in fact, a very important statistics is that as per 2011, statistics census, there are about 23 lakh women who have been abandoned by the husband, which means they are still in marriage, but their husbands have just left them, they've just dumped them, let's put it very plainly, they have just been dumped by the spouse by the husband, and they're still in the marriage, they can't go anywhere. And out of this 23 lakh 20 lakh cases of non Muslim Hindu women that's like 88%. And I don't wish to make this into a religious affairs. It's not the issue of being a Hindu or a Muslim. It's a matter which has to be
taken care of. I mean, if people are so concerned about certain community, and they want to please the Muslim community, which by the way, is something which the current government was against, they were against pleasing of any section. So we would like to remind them that there are cases which are serious cases and we want that all these 23 lakh women, their rights are also protected. That's not a small number. I just happen to go through a post today by one lady Columba.
She's tweeted she's
up member up member.
Why, why do the Muslims have to say talaq, talaq talaq, they can just be cool without saying talaq and become the Prime Minister of India.
the people we're talking about the rights of the women are not walking the talk. There are people who talk they make moves, claims and everything we have been witnessing, but how much of it really carry any water? How much of it really, do they really adhere to their principles? It's a big question, you know, so anyhow, we have good days to come. inshallah. inshallah. So we will move on now from the triple talaq issue, we'll see how the developments take place. And then we'll come back to discussing this in the future as well. The next thing which we wanted to take up was the issue of the New Year celebrations. And I wanted to know, how do you see the New Year celebrations taking
place, especially at the time where a country is going through a turmoil, turmoil in the sense that we have so many farmers who are committing suicide, there is an economic distress taking place. And so many cases of lynching etc, taking place the happiness index, I would feel is not at the at its best at this point of time. And
So how do you see this New Year celebration? I would like to know from you the Islamic perspective on it, as well as, as an Indian, how do you see it? See,
if I did not know about Islam, then I would have celebrated the New Years. You understand that's how it is, you see, okay, for the people of dunia for the people on this world. It's a day to marry and on the night to have a lot of fun. And for them, it's like,
bring party around and dance and drive and bang and die.
We have seen how the New Years work. You know, during my college days, I've seen a lot of people partying and you see the partying culture. As a Muslim, I have understood that the real essence of Islam is to stay away from all the evil things and all the things that connect to evil things. So partying, drinking and marrying and all of these things is haram and forbidden therefore we don't party. And secondly, the the purpose of celebrating what what is the real purpose of celebrating this New Year's Eve? If you happen to see I just went through some of the history.
Janus is being worshipped by the was being worshipped during the Roman civilization.
And January is the month which is named after they they got the two headed
And they worship the God Jane has on that New Year's Eve and even in those days of paganism, they used to dance and marry the whole night. So that's the culture which is coming in which is being followed.
Okay, again losing your audio.
So we just wait for Omaha to just get back.
Yeah. So what I'm trying to say is we as Muslims as the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he said, Mantashe
who saw ever imitates a group of people they are from amongst them. So as a Muslim, I don't want to imitate any people, any paganistic Custom. Therefore, I stay away from the newest celebration, partying, marrying, bringing and all of that you see, although it's a lot of pleasure in this world, but once you die, all of these pleasures are gone. The reality is that you have to face the life of all Bursa and one has to go to the hereafter and answer for all of his actions in front of Allah subhanaw taala therefore, we want to enjoy the everlasting kingdom in the heavens, forever in Ghana and therefore we want to invite these few parties in this world inshallah.
inshallah, okay. Moving on to the third topic that we wish to discuss. And we try to keep this a little short, because this is the first time we're going live together. And we don't want people to feel that these two guys come and take our time, you know, spoiling the Sunday's of people, especially it's 31st. December, many of you might have had your plans. So we will try to quickly hasten up with
no plan, no plan, no plans, because December, okay? come and listen to us in sha Allah. Okay. So the third point, which we wanted to discuss, and before I come to the ICA discussion, I see a couple of questions which has come in. So just wanted to quickly read one of the question number by it says, This is the first question what if a Muslim woman goes to the police station and says, My husband gave me a triple the law? Will they arrest the man and if they do arrest the man and he says, but I didn't give her a triple talaq. I asked her why the dinner was not ready. And she told me to go to hell. And then she left the house. What do the police do? Do they arrest the man? Or do they tell
the woman to go back home? And now if they also want to go home? And she says, How can I go home? Stupid he has divorced me. And it's not a it's a non bailable offense? What do the police do? Do they now arrest the man anyway? I think the answer we all know it. But we would like to hear from you. Yeah.
I'm not able to read the entire text there. I think it would be better if you answer. Okay.
Okay, well, I think I think that it is very clear that they're going to arrest him any which ways. And in fact, the point which we have not discussed, is that it doesn't need to be a wife who has to complain. It could just be a neighbor, who would just go out and completely you might be actually watching the movie of the actor, who was the actor, there was a movie nikka nica, who was a movie which had come in India a few years back in which the person the hero had given the lock three times in one go tala tala tala, so you might be watching that movie at home, and the volumes might be up, and this hero might be saying talaq, talaq, talaq and your neighbor may overhear the audio and he
may think that you have just utter diversity of life, and he can just go and complain to the police. And the police will come and arrest the man. And no questions asked. The wife can keep saying we were watching a movie, this is the CD This is the DVD, but there is no it's a non bailable offense.
Right. Did you get the idea of my PI which I was talking on? Yeah. Actually your sound was getting disturbed that was not able to follow it through.
Now, the last question which is here at this point will take is omega you were just mentioning that triple talaq and you compared it with living relationship. The question which is asked is and this is asked by if Tariq she wants to know, triple talaq is normally issued in a moment of rage and anger. You know, in anger you say de la pelicula. It's only when the person gets to decide. He realizes that this is not correct. So isn't this unfair to compare it to a living relationship where a person knows what he's doing? He's not in a fit of rage. He is perhaps in a fit of romance. So compare the two.
Okay, I want to ask a question. See, I personally don't acknowledge the triple talaq at one go. I'm not for it. yet. I want to just put forward my arguments. What if a person gives triple talaq with love and compassion
What would you do? You know, without getting angry, a person wants to just say I want to pass away, I don't want to live with you anymore. Or both of them both husband and wife, they come to a mutually that they want to mutually end the relationship through Triple Deluxe. If the husband and wife mutually want to end the relationship through Drupal, what would you say for that? So my question is, when relationship can end abruptly, either with love or anger at the spur of the moment, they just decide and they end in a loving relationship, when one can acknowledge that and why can't acknowledge this also, and if you can't say this is wrong,
we need to put an end to both of it. So I'm just questioning standards, but at the same time, I'm not for this triple talaq practice at one go.
Only later on, which was incorporated due to certain reasons it was it also had valid reasons. We don't want to talk against the Sahaba who acknowledged it because they also had a reason for acknowledging it, but it was for that time for that people but some of the schools of thought consider it to be valid. And they also said
yeah, I just wanted to mention something here about the Calif or Maribel hottub or the LA zoo. And many people attribute that you know, it was during his times, things had happened. I just want to mention an incident where a man came to the Calif of that time, meaning Omar Abdel Fattah radi Allahu and said, Yeah, I mean, I want to divorce my wife, because I don't love her anymore. I don't feel any kind of love towards her. So I'm gonna read Nelson Mandela, who said, must every marriage be built upon love? Where is the issue of trust? So there is it's not only about love, it's also the issue of trust. And as Muslims, we also strongly believe that the marriage is not merely based on
love. It's also based on trust. And may Allah subhanho wa Taala give us the ability to fulfill our commitment. Yeah.
With most of the last bit that we wanted to discuss, so you mentioned in the beginning that you are planning to come to Kolkata on the 26th of Jan,
why are you coming to Kolkata? Kolkata loves you? I know that but
people are very loving and sweet people, you know, they're actually actually the Kolkata people are good, except for some little few people who have always been rolling over my post, you know, earlier, but I think nowadays they have learned big lessons in life and they would not do that again. Right. So, so anyhow, Kolkata, we are coming there to conduct the three days program, one day conference called Republic on the Republic Day, and I on the 26th of January, and 27th and 28th. We do have a summit and Java related program, wherein we want to give guidelines to the to the promoters of Islam to the propagators of Islam, the legal rulings within the democratic system as to
how much they can, you know, explain to the non Muslims about Islam and what are their rights in conveying the message of Islam? And what are the limitations that they should keep in mind in conveying the message of Islam and all of these things we will be sharing with the do as you know, do other the people who are a propagators of Islam, so inshallah Allah three days I am with you, brother Massoud daanish. Shall I look forward to that and
to all those who have been watching this video live, before we conclude, I would like to invite you to share your views and opinion about the way we went live today. If you would like me and Omar Sharif and other guests whom we will be inviting to share a particular concern that you have which is affecting the society etc. Whether it is related to politics or economics or religion. share your views with us sending sending your comments to us inshallah, we love to take this up. Before we conclude Omar Hi, I also understand that on the 26th you have a program which will be open to all communities is that correct?
Yeah, inshallah inshallah. inshallah even for all all people, okay.
Our barakallahu fique for taking our time, Omar, I see you're still in your car. So I will allow you to carry on wherever you were moving to barakallahu Peak for joining.
Allah, Allah, to all of those who were watching us live. Look forward to your participation in the future as well. And do like the video and share it with your friends and your relatives. Salaam. alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh