Jeffrey Lang – From Atheism To Islam

Jeffrey Lang
Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The speakers discuss their experiences with Islam, including struggles with religion and past struggles with religion. They emphasize the importance of finding answers to questions and finding one's spiritual moments. The book Losing Myrowder is a personalized story and powerfulational message, and the importance of acceptance and building a culture. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of education to build talent and a culture.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:00 --> 00:00:02
			So Jeffrey doctor Jeffrey, can you tell us
		
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04
			a little bit about yourself? What you do
		
00:00:04 --> 00:00:04
			and,
		
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07
			a profession Well, I'm a professor of
		
00:00:08 --> 00:00:08
			Mathematics.
		
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11
			Professor of mathematics at the University of Kansas.
		
00:00:11 --> 00:00:12
			Doctor of Math?
		
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15
			Yes. Yes. In Lawrence, Kansas. Okay. How long
		
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17
			how long you've been doing this? Well, I've
		
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19
			been a professor since I was 28. So
		
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21
			that would be, no. 27.
		
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24
			So that would be 26 years. 26 years.
		
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26
			We brought you on the show because we're
		
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28
			interested. We wanna know your story. Why you
		
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31
			chose this beautiful way of life of Islam?
		
00:00:31 --> 00:00:32
			But before that,
		
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35
			you, tell us a little about your history.
		
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37
			You're born in America, in the States? Yes.
		
00:00:37 --> 00:00:38
			Yeah. 1954.
		
00:00:39 --> 00:00:40
			1954.
		
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42
			Alright. Long time. Yes. Yeah. So what kind
		
00:00:42 --> 00:00:44
			what way of life It's not bad long.
		
00:00:44 --> 00:00:45
			Yeah. Yeah. That's it.
		
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47
			I'm not ready for the grade.
		
00:00:47 --> 00:00:48
			Necessarily.
		
00:00:49 --> 00:00:51
			No. You look quite young. Yeah. Okay. I
		
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53
			actually, the first time I saw you, this
		
00:00:53 --> 00:00:55
			was maybe like 5 year years ago. Mhmm.
		
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57
			Yeah. You don't look like you're aged day
		
00:00:57 --> 00:00:58
			6. Oh, that's good. Good. Let's hope it
		
00:00:58 --> 00:00:59
			keeps out.
		
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02
			So tell me tell us, the viewers,
		
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05
			because you see, nowadays,
		
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08
			Islam, there's a stigma attached to it. So
		
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10
			now someone as bright as yourself, who's a
		
00:01:10 --> 00:01:11
			doctor,
		
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13
			who is an intellectual,
		
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16
			for someone who is afraid of Islam,
		
00:01:17 --> 00:01:17
			who doesn't
		
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20
			understand Islam, they wanna know why would this
		
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22
			man choose Islam as his way of life.
		
00:01:23 --> 00:01:24
			Oh, well.
		
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27
			I was an atheist before becoming atheist. You
		
00:01:27 --> 00:01:28
			didn't believe in God? I didn't believe in
		
00:01:28 --> 00:01:29
			God.
		
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31
			You you were you born into a family
		
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33
			of atheists or No. No. My,
		
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36
			I grew up in a Roman Catholic family.
		
00:01:36 --> 00:01:37
			I went to Catholic school,
		
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39
			my entire life from
		
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42
			1st grade to, senior high in high
		
00:01:42 --> 00:01:43
			school. And,
		
00:01:45 --> 00:01:46
			my mother was very, very devout.
		
00:01:47 --> 00:01:51
			My, wonderful woman, wonderful believer, extremely
		
00:01:51 --> 00:01:52
			terrible. My,
		
00:01:53 --> 00:01:53
			father,
		
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56
			he believed very much in God and in
		
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58
			the Catholic church,
		
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00
			but he had a terrible drinking problem. He
		
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02
			was an alcoholic and he was very violent.
		
00:02:04 --> 00:02:04
			So,
		
00:02:05 --> 00:02:06
			in an early stage in my life, I
		
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08
			mean, living with a nightmare of my father's
		
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10
			violence, and the target of that violence was
		
00:02:10 --> 00:02:11
			usually my mother.
		
00:02:12 --> 00:02:13
			And I remember praying when I was a
		
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16
			little kid in bed, night after night, you
		
00:02:16 --> 00:02:17
			know, please take my father out of our
		
00:02:17 --> 00:02:18
			lives.
		
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21
			Stop this unending nightmare. The guy was that
		
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22
			bad. It was that bad. I thought he
		
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24
			was gonna kill her. I thought I'd wake
		
00:02:24 --> 00:02:25
			up in the morning and not find her
		
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28
			there. Of course, that's I'm a young kid
		
00:02:28 --> 00:02:29
			at the time. 8, 9, 10. As you
		
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31
			grow older, you realize, oh, this has happened
		
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33
			many times. She'll survive.
		
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36
			But, you know, it it leaves very deep
		
00:02:36 --> 00:02:36
			scars.
		
00:02:37 --> 00:02:38
			So when I was 16,
		
00:02:41 --> 00:02:42
			you know, it it created in me doubts
		
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45
			about the existence of God. Why would why
		
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48
			would God, this loving God, expose my mother
		
00:02:48 --> 00:02:48
			to lifelong
		
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50
			torment and torture?
		
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52
			What sin did she commit to deserve this?
		
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55
			Why would he let the strong oppressed weak?
		
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58
			Why would he create us to experience such
		
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01
			violence and and suffering in this? There's nothing
		
00:03:01 --> 00:03:02
			wrong with wanting to know the answers to
		
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04
			these questions. Of course. It is natural especially
		
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06
			when you're living with them daily.
		
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07
			So,
		
00:03:08 --> 00:03:10
			doubts about the existence of God prepped in
		
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12
			early in my life. And they only got
		
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14
			accentuated as I grew older and, you know,
		
00:03:14 --> 00:03:15
			we
		
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17
			experienced the Vietnam War,
		
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20
			experienced the race riots in cities like mine
		
00:03:20 --> 00:03:21
			of the sixties.
		
00:03:21 --> 00:03:22
			The assassinations
		
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25
			of political leaders was rampant, or at least
		
00:03:25 --> 00:03:26
			it seemed that way at that time.
		
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29
			Heroes like John f Kennedy and Robert Kennedy
		
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31
			and Martin Luther King get gunned down to
		
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34
			replace by the most corrupt rulers that we
		
00:03:34 --> 00:03:34
			thought.
		
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37
			So, you know, why did God make it
		
00:03:37 --> 00:03:38
			this way? The
		
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41
			question which was rooted in my childhood experience
		
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43
			grew as I got older. So when I
		
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45
			was 16, since I could never find really,
		
00:03:45 --> 00:03:46
			even though I was in a Catholic school
		
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48
			all my life, and this is nothing against
		
00:03:48 --> 00:03:48
			the Catholics,
		
00:03:49 --> 00:03:50
			even though I couldn't find
		
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53
			coherent and cogent answers to those questions,
		
00:03:54 --> 00:03:54
			16,
		
00:03:55 --> 00:03:56
			I became an atheist.
		
00:03:57 --> 00:03:58
			You wanted to know
		
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59
			why
		
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02
			the weak were getting oppressed by the strong.
		
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04
			You wanted to know why all this
		
00:04:05 --> 00:04:06
			corruption, these
		
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09
			in society, and you were looking for answers.
		
00:04:09 --> 00:04:10
			And
		
00:04:10 --> 00:04:11
			the way
		
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13
			the way of life you were brought up
		
00:04:13 --> 00:04:14
			to didn't answer. You have to remember, I'm
		
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17
			going to Catholic school every day, you know.
		
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18
			And this again, this is not against the
		
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19
			Catholics.
		
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21
			But I have many other things going on
		
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23
			in my life. I'm exposed to religion every
		
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25
			day. What about Christianity? I mean, we understand
		
00:04:25 --> 00:04:26
			Christianity,
		
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29
			Catholicism is it has the same kind of
		
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31
			creed that, Yeah. Jesus is God. He's the
		
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33
			son of God. He's 1 in 3. So
		
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35
			what if someone says, well, you are in
		
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37
			the wrong faith. Why didn't you choose Christianity?
		
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39
			Were you exposed to that at all? Yeah.
		
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42
			Well, I was a Christian at the time,
		
00:04:42 --> 00:04:43
			you know. I mean, I wasn't Christian as
		
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45
			I'm a Catholic. What's the main difference? Tell
		
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47
			us for the viewers that might not know.
		
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49
			What's the difference when you say Catholic and
		
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51
			Christian? What It's just the branch of it's
		
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53
			a sect of Christianity. It's a sect. So
		
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55
			you were you are Christian. Yes. It's just
		
00:04:55 --> 00:04:56
			a sect of Christian. Yeah. It's the largest
		
00:04:56 --> 00:04:57
			sect. It's the largest sect. Okay. Just the
		
00:04:57 --> 00:04:58
			world.
		
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01
			So, you know, I'm exposed to religion every
		
00:05:01 --> 00:05:01
			day.
		
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04
			It's part of my life because I go
		
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06
			to school every day and on and on
		
00:05:06 --> 00:05:07
			weekends I go to church.
		
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10
			So I have that going on. Meanwhile, I
		
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12
			have these big questions looming in my life.
		
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14
			Why would God create us here to suffer
		
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16
			if he's supposed to be an all loving
		
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18
			God, as I was taught? So I have
		
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20
			these contradictions in my life. The mother my
		
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22
			mother, the most saintly woman I I've ever
		
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25
			known, the suffering, this violence and abuse of
		
00:05:25 --> 00:05:25
			my father.
		
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29
			And sometimes we children also us children also
		
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31
			experienced it. It. And, why would God do
		
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33
			that? Why would He let innocent people suffer
		
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36
			at the hands of more violent criminal people?
		
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39
			Why wouldn't a perfect God create a more
		
00:05:39 --> 00:05:40
			perfect world?
		
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43
			Where does evil come from? If everything comes
		
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46
			from God, then evil comes from God. And
		
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48
			so forth and so on. So, you know,
		
00:05:48 --> 00:05:49
			these questions grew
		
00:05:50 --> 00:05:50
			and,
		
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53
			as as they grew and became,
		
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55
			bigger in my life, and they were big
		
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57
			to begin with, Yeah. I I moved away
		
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59
			from my church. Okay. Moved away from belief
		
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01
			in God. This I just couldn't reconcile it.
		
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03
			This was at quite a young age, 16.
		
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05
			16. So now there is a gap in
		
00:06:05 --> 00:06:06
			between
		
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07
			16
		
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10
			and when you came to Islam, which what
		
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12
			age was that? 28. 28. In between them,
		
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14
			really short, what were you doing? What kind
		
00:06:14 --> 00:06:15
			of life were you living?
		
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17
			Oh, I just went out and lived my
		
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19
			life. Yeah. You know, so
		
00:06:19 --> 00:06:19
			I,
		
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22
			I tried to live a good life. You
		
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25
			know, I I thought that, you know, I
		
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28
			I didn't think that religions were totally invalid
		
00:06:28 --> 00:06:29
			in the sense that
		
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32
			the values that they preach were bad. I
		
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34
			thought the values that they religions preach were
		
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36
			good. I I would I was a humanist.
		
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37
			I believe that,
		
00:06:38 --> 00:06:38
			you know,
		
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41
			a life becomes worth living,
		
00:06:42 --> 00:06:43
			becomes more enjoyable,
		
00:06:44 --> 00:06:44
			becomes,
		
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48
			more serene and peaceful the more you reach
		
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50
			out to other people and help them. So,
		
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52
			you know, that part I took from religion.
		
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55
			It was just the theology, the existence of
		
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57
			a supreme being that made this world so
		
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00
			chaotic. That part I could never accept. Now
		
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03
			we as as Muslims, ones who surrender and
		
00:07:03 --> 00:07:03
			to submit
		
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06
			to the will of the creator of the
		
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08
			heavens and the earth. We know at the
		
00:07:08 --> 00:07:09
			end of the day that there's a light
		
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11
			at the end of that tunnel. Through all
		
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13
			the struggle and the hardship,
		
00:07:13 --> 00:07:14
			there is hope at the end of the
		
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15
			day.
		
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17
			But how did you as an atheist, when
		
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19
			we didn't believe in God, was there hope
		
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21
			at the end of the day? Was there
		
00:07:21 --> 00:07:22
			a light at the end of the tunnel
		
00:07:22 --> 00:07:23
			when you would hit rock bottom? And did
		
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25
			you ever hit rock bottom that you were
		
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27
			like, you know, call who would you call
		
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29
			out to? Who would you when you're alone
		
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31
			in your room, it's pitch black, or you
		
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33
			just came from a hard day, you know,
		
00:07:33 --> 00:07:34
			the world's on top of you, you feel
		
00:07:34 --> 00:07:35
			like it's gonna crumble over you. Who do
		
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37
			you reach out to? Who did you reach
		
00:07:37 --> 00:07:37
			out to?
		
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40
			Well, I think I pretty much relied on
		
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42
			myself. Yeah. You know, I Is that hard?
		
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44
			Is that really did it or you just
		
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46
			got used to dealing with it or? Well,
		
00:07:46 --> 00:07:47
			yeah. I got used to and I never
		
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49
			really had to get used to dealing with
		
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51
			it. You know, surprisingly, my life went pretty
		
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53
			smooth after I became an atheist. Yeah. Yeah.
		
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55
			I went away to college. Mhmm. Got away
		
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57
			from the family. I see. You know,
		
00:07:58 --> 00:07:59
			got was married,
		
00:08:00 --> 00:08:02
			you know, when I was around 21. The
		
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04
			marriage didn't last, but it was a peaceful
		
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06
			marriage. It lasted a couple of years.
		
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08
			I was very successful at school,
		
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11
			went went to graduate school,
		
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15
			did well there. So nothing really went badly
		
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17
			and, you know, but I assume that if
		
00:08:17 --> 00:08:18
			something did go badly, that was just the
		
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21
			accident one of the accidents of life. So
		
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23
			where the shift now? If everything was going
		
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25
			smooth, you're going to school, then how the
		
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27
			shift why the shift?
		
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29
			Oh. From being an atheist
		
00:08:30 --> 00:08:30
			to now,
		
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34
			discovering this way of life as well. Yeah.
		
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36
			How did this turning point happen?
		
00:08:36 --> 00:08:37
			Well,
		
00:08:38 --> 00:08:39
			when I was,
		
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42
			you know, when I finished graduate school at
		
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44
			Purdue University, not too far from here,
		
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48
			I went to, my first teaching job, which
		
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50
			was at the University of San Francisco.
		
00:08:51 --> 00:08:51
			And,
		
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54
			there I met some Muslims,
		
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57
			nice family. They sort of adopted me and
		
00:08:57 --> 00:08:58
			vice versa. Yeah.
		
00:08:58 --> 00:08:59
			And,
		
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02
			and I used to discuss these issues and
		
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03
			these questions with them.
		
00:09:04 --> 00:09:06
			And they had a very difficult time answering.
		
00:09:07 --> 00:09:07
			Yeah.
		
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10
			And, so one day,
		
00:09:10 --> 00:09:10
			they
		
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12
			real they,
		
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15
			gave me a copy of the Quran as
		
00:09:15 --> 00:09:15
			a present,
		
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18
			with the understanding that they couldn't answer the
		
00:09:18 --> 00:09:18
			questions.
		
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23
			But, you know, perhaps, if you're still interested
		
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25
			in looking, you might look in here. They
		
00:09:25 --> 00:09:26
			they were really not the type that tried
		
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28
			to convert. This man. I didn't feel that
		
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30
			was their motive. When I did, I probably
		
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32
			would have shied away and not ever seen
		
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34
			them again. But it was like the peace
		
00:09:34 --> 00:09:36
			jester, you know. It was their their sincerity
		
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38
			in just trying to give them a gift.
		
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40
			Right. We can't we can't deal with these
		
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42
			questions. We have no idea how to answer
		
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44
			them. Yeah. But, you know, this is our
		
00:09:44 --> 00:09:45
			scripture. If you'd like to look in there,
		
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47
			there to learn more about Islam.
		
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49
			I'm a few So it was a it
		
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51
			was a English translation of the Quran? Right.
		
00:09:51 --> 00:09:52
			English interpretation of
		
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54
			Koran. And,
		
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56
			I took it home, I put it in
		
00:09:56 --> 00:09:57
			my apartment
		
00:09:57 --> 00:09:58
			on the bookshelf,
		
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00
			and that's where it stayed for a while.
		
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02
			For a while. Not very long, really, because
		
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04
			I was new to San Francisco.
		
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07
			And I had shipped my books from Indiana,
		
00:10:07 --> 00:10:08
			Lafayette, Indiana,
		
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11
			to my new place of work and my
		
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12
			new address.
		
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14
			And they hadn't arrived yet. So it wasn't
		
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16
			long before I ran out of stuff to
		
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18
			read. And one night, I was sitting in
		
00:10:18 --> 00:10:19
			my apartment in Diamond Heights, and there was
		
00:10:19 --> 00:10:21
			nothing to read. And I look over at
		
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23
			the coffee table, it happened to be on
		
00:10:23 --> 00:10:23
			the coffee table,
		
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26
			and there's a copy of the English interpretation
		
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28
			of the Quran. So I picked it up
		
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31
			and I thought I would Peruse it. Yeah.
		
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33
			So the journey began. The journey began. Now
		
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35
			tell me this, because
		
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36
			did you open it
		
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40
			Some people open the book to look to
		
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43
			find contradiction, to look to find discrepancies.
		
00:10:44 --> 00:10:45
			At what at that point, did you look
		
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48
			was your mind open? Was your heart open
		
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52
			to the truth if it was the truth?
		
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54
			You you you get my question? Yes. I
		
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56
			get your question. I was very convinced there
		
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58
			was no God. So, you know, when I
		
00:10:58 --> 00:10:59
			picked it up, I wasn't looking for searching
		
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01
			for anything on a spiritual level.
		
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04
			I wasn't looking for contradictions. There's no point
		
00:11:04 --> 00:11:05
			in that. You know, I had
		
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08
			reasons not to believe in God. I thought
		
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10
			they were very co very compelling reasons. So
		
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12
			I wasn't really looking for anything. I just
		
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15
			picked it up and out of, I would
		
00:11:15 --> 00:11:17
			say, at the time, academic curiosity. Just wanted
		
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19
			to see what it is. Academic curiosity. I
		
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21
			thought I would read 3 or 4 pages,
		
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23
			get bored, and put it down. Yes. Yeah.
		
00:11:23 --> 00:11:24
			You know how it is. I understand. When
		
00:11:24 --> 00:11:25
			you have enough to read, you pick up
		
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27
			a magazine, you But that wasn't the case.
		
00:11:28 --> 00:11:29
			No. It turned out to be a little
		
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31
			bit of a surprise. You know,
		
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34
			I read the first Surah, which essentially is
		
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36
			a prayer for guidance. You don't sort of
		
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38
			realize it till you're done. Yeah. That was
		
00:11:38 --> 00:11:39
			a little bit of a, you know, I
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41
			thought the author was clever. For for it's
		
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43
			a very short story. Can you for
		
00:11:43 --> 00:11:44
			our,
		
00:11:44 --> 00:11:45
			viewers
		
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48
			who aren't Muslim, can you just the 7
		
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50
			verses Yeah. Can you translate them in English?
		
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53
			Yes. It goes basically like this.
		
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55
			In the name of God, the merciful and
		
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57
			compassion. So one, it says the most merciful,
		
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00
			the most compassionate. Right. This is deep. Right.
		
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02
			Because we as human beings think sometimes, you
		
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04
			know, we're merciful. You know, this guy is
		
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06
			such an this is the most merciful. Right.
		
00:12:06 --> 00:12:08
			Go on. So right away, emphasis on mercy
		
00:12:08 --> 00:12:08
			and compassion.
		
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11
			Then it says all praise be to God,
		
00:12:12 --> 00:12:13
			more or less ruler of all worlds. The
		
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15
			king of all realms. The one who's running
		
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17
			the show. Yes. Of all that exists. Yes.
		
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20
			The most merciful, the most compassionate. Again, reminding
		
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22
			again, the most merciful, most compassionate.
		
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28
			Show us the straight path. Yes. Oh, no.
		
00:12:28 --> 00:12:29
			No.
		
00:12:29 --> 00:12:30
			You alone,
		
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34
			we pray to and, you alone we see
		
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36
			stone from. You alone do we pray to?
		
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38
			Praying to God alone. None of his creation
		
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41
			to him directly. Direct connection. Right.
		
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43
			And then then the next verse is, show
		
00:12:43 --> 00:12:44
			us a straight path. The master of the
		
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45
			day of judgement. Oh, master of the day
		
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47
			of judgement. Master that there is a day
		
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49
			of judgement, that we're gonna be accountable for
		
00:12:49 --> 00:12:50
			all of our actions.
		
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52
			Right now. Now that part bothered me a
		
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54
			little bit, master of the day of judgment.
		
00:12:54 --> 00:12:55
			I thought, now I'm coming back. You know,
		
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57
			the emphasis on mercy and compassion is nice.
		
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00
			Master of the day of judgment. Okay. This
		
00:13:00 --> 00:13:01
			I think of punishment. Yeah. And then I
		
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03
			think, okay. He creates us with all these
		
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05
			flaws, and then he punishes us for having,
		
00:13:05 --> 00:13:07
			you know. So, you know, I'm just a
		
00:13:07 --> 00:13:08
			little put off by that. Yeah. And then,
		
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12
			show us a straight path. You know, the
		
00:13:12 --> 00:13:13
			path of those whom you have favored,
		
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17
			not those who have, gone astray Yes. Or
		
00:13:17 --> 00:13:17
			upon this
		
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21
			violence or wrath. Yes. Yeah. So and then
		
00:13:21 --> 00:13:22
			you went on to So it was very
		
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24
			interesting. It starts out like a hymn of
		
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26
			praise, like a song. Yeah.
		
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28
			And it slips into being a prayer for
		
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30
			guidance at the end. Yeah. So I thought
		
00:13:30 --> 00:13:31
			the author was very clever because he sort
		
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33
			of tricked me into making this prayer for
		
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35
			guidance even though I didn't Before you started
		
00:13:35 --> 00:13:36
			to go to the book of God. Right.
		
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38
			I didn't believe in God. Then you come
		
00:13:38 --> 00:13:39
			to the next,
		
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42
			Surah, and it begins Alef Lam, Meem, 3
		
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44
			Arabic letters, and then it says, that is
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:46
			the book, literally. That is the book, wherein,
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49
			no doubt, is the guidance. Yeah. No doubt
		
00:13:49 --> 00:13:50
			this book. Yeah. Well, it seems to be
		
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53
			saying that, you know, this very dismayed, this
		
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55
			is your answer. Yeah. So I thought the
		
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57
			author had a very compelling style writing. Yeah.
		
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59
			And he sort of engages you in a
		
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00
			sort of intellectual conversation.
		
00:14:01 --> 00:14:02
			So I, you know, as I was reading
		
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04
			the Quran, I was appreciating the author's, let's
		
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06
			say, literary genius. You know, even though I
		
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08
			didn't know who the author was, and I
		
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11
			definitely assumed it wasn't divinely inspired. Uh-huh.
		
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14
			And then I come to the 30th verse
		
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16
			of the 2nd Surah chapter.
		
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20
			And it says, Behold, your Lord said to
		
00:14:20 --> 00:14:20
			the angels.
		
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23
			So it's a heavenly announcement.
		
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26
			I'm about to put a vice friend on
		
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28
			her. The Arabic word was Khalifa. I'm about
		
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30
			to put a vice friend of mine, a
		
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32
			vice one who acts on behalf of another
		
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33
			or represents another.
		
00:14:34 --> 00:14:35
			So it's a heavenly election.
		
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38
			I'm about to put a viceroy on Earth.
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40
			And then the angel said,
		
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42
			will you put there in one who will
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44
			spread corruption and shed much blood?
		
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47
			Oh, this is now one of the answers
		
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49
			to some of your questions. This is my
		
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51
			question. That's your question. Well, we the angels
		
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54
			are asking. Right. Yeah. Well, we, the angels,
		
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56
			celebrate your praises and glorify you. What was
		
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58
			response from the almighty? Yeah. So, you know,
		
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00
			I read that verse. Yeah. And look what
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02
			they're saying. When you put human beings on
		
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04
			there to represent you,
		
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07
			well, and they spread tremendous corruption and shed
		
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09
			much blood. And that's what's going on nowadays.
		
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11
			Yeah. Yeah. While we, the angels,
		
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15
			celebrate your praises and glorify you and are
		
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17
			entirely submissive to you and do exactly what
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19
			you want. You know, what you want of
		
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21
			us. You know, the question is, why would
		
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24
			you create this beam and put them on
		
00:15:24 --> 00:15:24
			earth
		
00:15:25 --> 00:15:26
			while we, the angels,
		
00:15:26 --> 00:15:27
			you know,
		
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29
			patently superior
		
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31
			and could fulfill that role much better. Yeah.
		
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33
			Why would you create humans when you could
		
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36
			just make them angels? Yes. You know, so
		
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39
			that took me right back to, day 1
		
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41
			of my child. You know, it just reminded
		
00:15:41 --> 00:15:42
			me of my entire my entire
		
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45
			life, all the scars that I had accumulated
		
00:15:45 --> 00:15:45
			and,
		
00:15:45 --> 00:15:46
			you
		
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49
			know, baggage I had accumulated because of my
		
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51
			childhood all came back to me that moment.
		
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53
			And I was irritated by the question, of
		
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55
			course. It made me angry, frankly.
		
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57
			And And then the answer to it was,
		
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00
			of course, the next verse says and God
		
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02
			says to the angels in reply, I know
		
00:16:02 --> 00:16:03
			what you do not know. I know exactly
		
00:16:03 --> 00:16:04
			what I'm doing.
		
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07
			And I thought, you know exactly what you're
		
00:16:07 --> 00:16:07
			doing.
		
00:16:09 --> 00:16:09
			But you realize
		
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13
			that this world is filled with violence and
		
00:16:13 --> 00:16:14
			crime and etcetera.
		
00:16:15 --> 00:16:16
			Why didn't you just make us all ancient?
		
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18
			You know, I was arguing with the scriptures.
		
00:16:18 --> 00:16:19
			Yeah.
		
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21
			But I was definitely hooked. I wanted to
		
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23
			see what the author, how the author answered
		
00:16:23 --> 00:16:23
			that question.
		
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26
			So I continued reading through the Quran,
		
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29
			looking for clues and answers. And I know
		
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31
			this interview has to be can't be that
		
00:16:31 --> 00:16:31
			long.
		
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34
			But by the time I got to the
		
00:16:34 --> 00:16:35
			end of the Quran,
		
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38
			I had found what for me were compelling
		
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41
			and coherent answers. So those answers that you
		
00:16:41 --> 00:16:42
			weren't able
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:46
			to get through your young adult childhood life
		
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48
			now finally at the age of what? 20,
		
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51
			7 or 20. You got them in this
		
00:16:51 --> 00:16:52
			Quran.
		
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54
			This last and final revelation,
		
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57
			the verbatim word of God as we say
		
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59
			as Muslims in the Quran. You got the
		
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01
			answers to all your questions. Yeah. I I
		
00:17:01 --> 00:17:01
			found for
		
00:17:02 --> 00:17:03
			for
		
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06
			myself personal theology that I felt was coherent
		
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08
			and compelling and consistent.
		
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09
			Yeah.
		
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12
			Just so our viewers know, you have actually
		
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14
			published a few books but tell us the
		
00:17:14 --> 00:17:14
			book,
		
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17
			where could someone get it, the one that
		
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19
			talks about your story in detail. So once
		
00:17:19 --> 00:17:20
			they go into the detail. What's it called
		
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22
			and where can they get this book? That
		
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24
			book is called Losing My Religion. Losing My
		
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26
			Religion. A Call For Help. Call For Help.
		
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28
			And it's in the first chapter. Alright. Where
		
00:17:28 --> 00:17:29
			could someone pick this up?
		
00:17:29 --> 00:17:30
			Amazon.com.
		
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33
			Amazon.com? Yeah. Check out the book by doctor
		
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35
			Jeffrey Lane. Yeah. So now, because we're short
		
00:17:35 --> 00:17:36
			on time,
		
00:17:37 --> 00:17:38
			tell us you accept
		
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41
			Islam. Well, the point was is that How
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43
			long after that? Well, my daughter once asked
		
00:17:43 --> 00:17:44
			me a good question. She said, okay, dad.
		
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46
			I I see you answered your questions
		
00:17:47 --> 00:17:47
			when
		
00:17:48 --> 00:17:49
			you studied the Quran.
		
00:17:50 --> 00:17:51
			But that that why did you become a
		
00:17:51 --> 00:17:52
			Muslim? Yeah.
		
00:17:53 --> 00:17:54
			You know, I mean That was my next
		
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56
			why why now did you become a Muslim?
		
00:17:56 --> 00:17:58
			Right. I mean, just because you've answered some
		
00:17:58 --> 00:17:59
			questions,
		
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01
			that doesn't prove there's a God. Yeah. But
		
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03
			the fact of the matter was is, you
		
00:18:03 --> 00:18:04
			know, as I was reading through the Quran,
		
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06
			the more I began to find the answers
		
00:18:06 --> 00:18:08
			to these questions, the more I began to
		
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09
			doubt my atheism.
		
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11
			And the more I began to doubt my
		
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14
			atheism. The Quran has a very powerful literary
		
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16
			style. The more those verses began to move
		
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18
			me. And there were times as I got
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:19
			towards the end of the Quran where I
		
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20
			felt that I was in this
		
00:18:21 --> 00:18:22
			presence of this tremendous
		
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24
			mercy, this tremendous
		
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27
			love, mercy, and power.
		
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29
			And I had these
		
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31
			very powerful spiritual moments.
		
00:18:32 --> 00:18:33
			And they would last sometimes
		
00:18:34 --> 00:18:35
			for a long period of time. You know,
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38
			10 5, 10 minutes, 15 minutes. It's hard
		
00:18:38 --> 00:18:39
			when you when you really get into the
		
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41
			deep state. These are the words of the
		
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43
			one who's created you. It's like if you
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46
			read a letter from your long lost mother
		
00:18:46 --> 00:18:47
			that you haven't seen. Yeah. Yeah. And now
		
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49
			you're this is your mother. This is your
		
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52
			creator. Yes. So would you suggest
		
00:18:52 --> 00:18:53
			for anybody
		
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56
			obviously, who's seeking the truth that if they
		
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58
			come with this at with an open mind,
		
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00
			a humble heart, that they'll be able to
		
00:19:00 --> 00:19:01
			see the same thing that you see. That
		
00:19:01 --> 00:19:03
			this is from the creator. That there's no
		
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05
			way a man could have authored this book
		
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07
			or any men. Well, it depends on the
		
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08
			individual. Of course. Yeah. How do you how
		
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10
			do you talk to this person who Yeah.
		
00:19:11 --> 00:19:12
			I mean, like,
		
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14
			you know, I didn't really come with a
		
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17
			humble heart. Yeah. I mean, my position
		
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19
			I mean, if you do believe in God
		
00:19:19 --> 00:19:19
			and you do,
		
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22
			accept that there is a God, then an
		
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24
			atheist is a pretty arrogant position. Yeah. You
		
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26
			know? I'm not saying atheists are arrogant, but,
		
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28
			you know, from the standpoint of a religious
		
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30
			point of view, an atheist is an arrogant
		
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32
			position. Yeah. And an open mind, well, I
		
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34
			just picked it up out of curiosity. Yeah.
		
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36
			You know, but it hooked me. Do you
		
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37
			recommend now that someone
		
00:19:38 --> 00:19:39
			obviously should read this book?
		
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42
			Well, definitely if you're looking for something, you
		
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44
			know, if you're if you're looking for faith
		
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46
			Why should why should someone read this book?
		
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48
			How would you answer that? Well, if you're
		
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50
			searching for faith in your life, this may
		
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53
			may be the the the place you'd like
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:54
			to I mean, it's it's a worth a
		
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56
			look. Yeah. You know, I don't like I
		
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58
			don't like to preach to people and proselytize,
		
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00
			you know. That's just not my nature. Mhmm.
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02
			Especially being an ex atheist. I used to
		
00:20:02 --> 00:20:03
			hate it when people used
		
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06
			to sell their religion to me. So I
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08
			don't try to sell my religion. Absolutely. Yeah.
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10
			I just, you know, but for peep but
		
00:20:10 --> 00:20:11
			I need many people who are looking, who
		
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13
			are searching. And I tell them if you
		
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15
			are searching then, you know, I could share
		
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16
			these this much
		
00:20:17 --> 00:20:18
			with you. And take it or leave it
		
00:20:18 --> 00:20:19
			or take it wherever you wanna go. Do
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20
			you share a lot of these points in
		
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23
			your book? Yes. Okay. That's great. Tell tell
		
00:20:23 --> 00:20:24
			us a few more questions and then we'll
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25
			cut out.
		
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28
			Tell us how has Islam
		
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31
			benefited you as a human being? How is
		
00:20:31 --> 00:20:31
			it,
		
00:20:33 --> 00:20:34
			fit and completed your life?
		
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38
			It's interesting. You know, it's an interesting question.
		
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40
			I mean, probably many ways that I
		
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43
			more ways than I could count or or
		
00:20:43 --> 00:20:44
			on the call.
		
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46
			But, I you know what?
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:48
			I once was asked that question in front
		
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50
			of an audience about a few months ago.
		
00:20:50 --> 00:20:51
			And it's hard, you know, you're searching through
		
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53
			your mind all the ways that it has
		
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55
			affected your life. I'd say, well How about
		
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56
			me? How about I answer the Google sec
		
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58
			second? Can I answer? I love I love
		
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59
			with with myself,
		
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02
			it like I said earlier, it's giving me
		
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04
			light at the end of the tunnel. When
		
00:21:04 --> 00:21:05
			you know at the end of the day
		
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07
			that there's something beyond this waiting for you,
		
00:21:07 --> 00:21:08
			a paradise,
		
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10
			that there is a creator that you will
		
00:21:10 --> 00:21:11
			be able to meet. We get excited about
		
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14
			meeting the Donald Trump's of this world, the
		
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16
			Michael Jacksons. Some people, they cry. They pull
		
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18
			their hair up. But now, can you imagine
		
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20
			meeting the one who created you?
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22
			Sitting and being able to see him and
		
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24
			him being pleased with you?
		
00:21:24 --> 00:21:25
			And you
		
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28
			all now throughout life, all he wants from
		
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30
			you is to call upon him alone and
		
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31
			to do good deeds.
		
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34
			You see? And at the end, now the
		
00:21:34 --> 00:21:35
			benefit is at the end of the day
		
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38
			that paradise is swaying for as a result
		
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40
			of being a human being because Islam calls
		
00:21:40 --> 00:21:41
			you to be good, to bring out the
		
00:21:41 --> 00:21:42
			best in you as a human being. Right?
		
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44
			So how about half of your team? No.
		
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45
			That's not bad. For me, it was it
		
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47
			was you know, know, I think the first
		
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49
			thing that came to my mind, and this
		
00:21:49 --> 00:21:50
			is the truth,
		
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52
			is that for the first time in my
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54
			life, I was able to,
		
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56
			experience love again.
		
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58
			I mean, growing up in
		
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01
			a family where you're always worried about
		
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03
			the person in your life you love most
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06
			not being there, you know, or being taken
		
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07
			out of it.
		
00:22:08 --> 00:22:08
			And,
		
00:22:09 --> 00:22:09
			and also,
		
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13
			having a father that you're you you grow
		
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15
			up supposed you're supposed to love and trust,
		
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18
			sort of violating that love and trust. You
		
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20
			come not to really believe in love.
		
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23
			And you don't let anyone get close. Yeah.
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:25
			You have to cut love out of your
		
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28
			life. Because you know if you let somebody
		
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30
			in that close, they're going to hurt you.
		
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33
			So throughout most of my adulthood, up until
		
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35
			the time I discovered Islam, I could never
		
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38
			love anyone. The love came back now? Now?
		
00:22:38 --> 00:22:38
			Yeah. Because
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41
			I felt, you know, through the experience of
		
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44
			prayer and through reading the Quran, especially through
		
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46
			this experience of prayer, my early prayers, you
		
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48
			know, this overwhelming one.
		
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51
			And it brought me to tears on on
		
00:22:51 --> 00:22:52
			too many occasions.
		
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55
			And when I have these moments and feel
		
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57
			the embrace of that divine mercy,
		
00:22:58 --> 00:22:59
			it it moved me in ways that I
		
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02
			never even thought it could. I discovered a
		
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04
			spirituality I didn't even think I've had. So
		
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07
			the soul now started to Feel. I I
		
00:23:07 --> 00:23:08
			tell me if you agree with me. You
		
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10
			don't have to, but if you do, say
		
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12
			you don't. You do. Alright. Alright. I compare
		
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14
			it. I make it to, like, a child.
		
00:23:15 --> 00:23:16
			A child, if you take it away from
		
00:23:16 --> 00:23:19
			his mother Yes. The child starts to whine
		
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21
			and cry. But when you give it back
		
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23
			after it's being passed around to all these
		
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26
			different hands, it's whining, whining, you give it
		
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28
			back to his mother Mhmm. And now it
		
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31
			rests. Did your soul find rest now? Yeah.
		
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32
			Well, actually I found that it was a
		
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34
			very healing process. Healing. That that that Yeah.
		
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37
			That it was like something that's spiritual high.
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:38
			You're calm now. The soul is not the
		
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40
			anxiety and this is what I was experiencing.
		
00:23:40 --> 00:23:41
			Yeah.
		
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43
			And and then after that, I could love.
		
00:23:43 --> 00:23:44
			I mean, now I'm I have a wife
		
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46
			right now that I love very much. Of
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48
			course, I love God. Alhamdulillah. It means all
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51
			praises to God. Alhamdulillah. I have 3 beautiful
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53
			children. You know what? I really could never
		
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55
			imagine that that would ever have happened just
		
00:23:55 --> 00:23:56
			because of my
		
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59
			the way, you know, the pain and the
		
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01
			scars I had suffered Yeah. Earlier.
		
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04
			But it was an interesting one, like a
		
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06
			child. I remember, once when I after I
		
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08
			became a Muslim, I used to love to
		
00:24:08 --> 00:24:10
			go to the early morning and then the
		
00:24:10 --> 00:24:11
			Maghreb and Ma'eshah,
		
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14
			the sunset and the evening prayers a lot.
		
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17
			And at that time, I understood no Arabic,
		
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18
			but I used to love to hear the
		
00:24:18 --> 00:24:19
			Quran chanting.
		
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22
			It was a powerful experience for me. 1
		
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24
			of the brothers once saw that I was
		
00:24:24 --> 00:24:25
			always coming and he said,
		
00:24:26 --> 00:24:27
			Doctor Lang, I see you always coming to
		
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28
			those 3 prayers.
		
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31
			Why these 3 prayers will come when you
		
00:24:31 --> 00:24:32
			don't even understand
		
00:24:33 --> 00:24:34
			what's being recited?
		
00:24:35 --> 00:24:37
			And I told him that, my answer was
		
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40
			immediate. I said to him, why is a
		
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43
			baby comforted by his mother's voice? Oh, that's
		
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46
			beautiful. You know, because even though he doesn't
		
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48
			quite recognize make out exactly the words,
		
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50
			it's a voice he's always known.
		
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53
			That's the recitation of the Koran. Yeah. It
		
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55
			felt like a voice I'd always known and
		
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57
			that it has always known me. Yeah. You
		
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59
			know, and I think it's was similar to
		
00:24:59 --> 00:25:00
			that. Mhmm. Yeah. That's
		
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03
			More points and more points we'll cut out.
		
00:25:03 --> 00:25:04
			You accept Islam,
		
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16
			finality of the messenger, the seal of the
		
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17
			prophets. To name the 5 for the greats,
		
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20
			Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, and Mohammed, peace
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21
			be upon them all. It's very simple.
		
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24
			So now you accept this. You become a
		
00:25:24 --> 00:25:24
			Muslim.
		
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26
			You get some hard times now since then.
		
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28
			You start having a tough time just because
		
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31
			you real simple, because you,
		
00:25:32 --> 00:25:33
			surrendered yourself to the creator.
		
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35
			Well, you know, that was,
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39
			short time after the marine bombing and, bombing
		
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41
			of the marine barracks in Lebanon.
		
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44
			And, around that time there was also the
		
00:25:44 --> 00:25:48
			Iranian hostage crisis. Yeah. So Americans were not
		
00:25:48 --> 00:25:49
			feeling very good about Islam. Yeah.
		
00:25:50 --> 00:25:50
			And,
		
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54
			and so, yeah, my friends didn't react very
		
00:25:54 --> 00:25:55
			negatively. They just slowly drift
		
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59
			away. And, So your friends became non friends?
		
00:25:59 --> 00:26:00
			Yeah. More distant. Distant. Yeah.
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:02
			That's that's too bad, you know. But I
		
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04
			think, you know, I I understand. You know,
		
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06
			they felt I must have been going through
		
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08
			some sort of loss of my mind or,
		
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10
			you know, some sort of personal crisis or
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12
			something. I I Which you weren't, actually. No.
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15
			You're just spiritual enlightened. Yeah. I was the
		
00:26:15 --> 00:26:16
			same person I was the day before. I
		
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18
			just I had something new in my life.
		
00:26:18 --> 00:26:19
			Yeah.
		
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21
			And it was, you know, I think it
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:21
			was
		
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24
			having a positive impact on me too. But
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26
			in any case, yeah, they did drift away
		
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28
			and I met new friends and I met
		
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30
			a lot of friends in the Muslim community.
		
00:26:30 --> 00:26:30
			And,
		
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32
			yeah. So there was that.
		
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35
			And there was some risk to my
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39
			my career. Yeah. Because I was teaching at
		
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40
			a one of
		
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43
			the oldest Catholic universities in America,
		
00:26:43 --> 00:26:44
			and they certainly,
		
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47
			you know there were some that weren't comfortable
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48
			there in the administration with one of their
		
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51
			faculty members converting to Islam, they thought.
		
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53
			Sent a bad message to them. Yeah. You
		
00:26:53 --> 00:26:53
			know?
		
00:26:54 --> 00:26:55
			Did you end up losing that position?
		
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59
			No. No? You're still there? No. I, left
		
00:26:59 --> 00:27:00
			there. I got tenured there and I got
		
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03
			promoted. You got promoted there? Yeah. And then,
		
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06
			I did quite well there. And then but
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:07
			I wanted to move to another part of
		
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09
			the country. Okay. So what are you currently
		
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11
			doing now? You're still a mathematician? Still a
		
00:27:11 --> 00:27:13
			doctor? Yeah. I'm a professor at the University
		
00:27:13 --> 00:27:14
			of Kansas. You also speak at different,
		
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16
			conferences,
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19
			Islamic conferences about Islam and your Yeah. And
		
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21
			I write some books on that subject.
		
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23
			You know, because, also I think, you know,
		
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25
			as any convert does, the Muslim,
		
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28
			the Muslims who come from overseas to the
		
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30
			United States bring their own sort of cultural
		
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32
			stuff. Cultural baggage. Yeah. A lot of and
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33
			we gotta understand that
		
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36
			Islam is not, it's a variety of people
		
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38
			from all different race, creeds, and colors.
		
00:27:39 --> 00:27:40
			And a lot of times what you see
		
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43
			is not Islam. Right. It's an action of
		
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44
			some culture that has nothing to do with
		
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46
			Islam. And and they have their own cultural
		
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48
			slant on Islam. Yeah. And so they insist
		
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51
			that many things are demanded by their religion
		
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53
			that are questionable in nature. And so, you
		
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56
			know, that that that struggle. Yeah. You know,
		
00:27:56 --> 00:27:57
			the struggle to sort of
		
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01
			distinguish between culture and religion and what is
		
00:28:01 --> 00:28:01
			actually
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04
			required by the religion and demanded by the
		
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07
			religion and what is just more custom or
		
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10
			or, you know, a a particular cultural's application.
		
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12
			You know, that that's been a major effort
		
00:28:12 --> 00:28:13
			and that's what I write about a lot
		
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15
			of the high books also. And I think
		
00:28:15 --> 00:28:16
			like you said, it's not our job to
		
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19
			try to convert somebody. We're not missionaries, but
		
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21
			is to present Islam in his true nature
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23
			and then let the people choose for their
		
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25
			self. Well, that's why, you know, one thing
		
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27
			I really like about the Quran's approach. I
		
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29
			mean, you know, it even tells the prophet,
		
00:28:29 --> 00:28:30
			peace be upon him, peace be upon him.
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:31
			It tells him
		
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33
			that it's not for him to guide you.
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36
			Yeah. Those whom he loves. You know, God
		
00:28:36 --> 00:28:38
			guides guys Who he loves. Who he loves.
		
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40
			Exactly. You know, it tells him that not
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:41
			to get all
		
00:28:41 --> 00:28:42
			paraphrased
		
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44
			bent out of shape because people aren't responding.
		
00:28:45 --> 00:28:46
			You know, it tells them just deliver the
		
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49
			message, communicate the message and leave the rest
		
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51
			to God, you know. So I I like
		
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53
			that. That appealed to me. What what what
		
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55
			advice do you have? We're gonna close-up now
		
00:28:56 --> 00:28:56
			to
		
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58
			anyone of our viewers
		
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02
			that are truly seeking the truth and say
		
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04
			he is from another way of life. Whatever
		
00:29:04 --> 00:29:05
			the case, he's an atheist.
		
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08
			What would you like to say to that
		
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10
			person about Islam? How it's been anything, whatever.
		
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12
			You got you got it for 30 seconds
		
00:29:12 --> 00:29:13
			a minute.
		
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16
			I I don't really know what to say
		
00:29:16 --> 00:29:17
			other than, you know,
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:20
			for anybody who is seeking the truth, I
		
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22
			would tell them to continue on that path.
		
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25
			You know, and and do it sincerely and
		
00:29:25 --> 00:29:26
			objectively and
		
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28
			and courageously.
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31
			You know, and go wherever the truth takes
		
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32
			you. You know, that's that's what I would
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34
			say, you know, that's what I've always told
		
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36
			my children as well. You know, when it
		
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38
			comes to all things. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like
		
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40
			to thank you for being on the show.
		
00:29:40 --> 00:29:40
			Thank you. Peace
		
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43
			again. One beautiful thing is, look, we're both
		
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46
			Americans here and we're saying a So it
		
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48
			doesn't mean if if he was French or
		
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50
			Canadian or Japanese, if
		
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52
			we didn't speak the same language, now we
		
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54
			do we say peace be unto you. Right.
		
00:29:54 --> 00:29:55
			Look at that. So beautiful. And we pray
		
00:29:55 --> 00:29:55
			together
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58
			in in one unity praying to the one
		
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01
			God. It's very simple. Very this is, something
		
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03
			beautiful. Another another miracle in itself. Well, it's
		
00:30:03 --> 00:30:04
			good to meet you. Good to meet you.
		
00:30:04 --> 00:30:05
			Alright. Alright.
		
00:30:06 --> 00:30:07
			I like to now
		
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09
			close with letting you know that
		
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11
			Islam is a beautiful way of life for
		
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13
			everyone to see. And we're here out of
		
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15
			the love helping educate the people because through
		
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18
			education, we're building talent. Islam teaches. Islam is
		
00:30:18 --> 00:30:19
			a verb.
		
00:30:19 --> 00:30:20
			It's an action.
		
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23
			It's something that a Muslim does which is
		
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25
			to surrender his will to the will of
		
00:30:25 --> 00:30:26
			the creator of the heavens and earth. Earth.
		
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28
			We met one of those Muslims today. If
		
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29
			you wanna know about Islam,
		
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31
			please come to the source because there are
		
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34
			Muslims nowadays who might be doing some things
		
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36
			that are in accordance with Islam. So we
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38
			don't wanna judge Islam and the actions of
		
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40
			some Muslims. It's not fair. So come to
		
00:30:40 --> 00:30:41
			the source.
		
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43
			You can check out the Quran we have
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:44
			for free. You can read it. It's on
		
00:30:44 --> 00:30:45
			the deenshow.com.
		
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48
			We have other videos. We have other topics
		
00:30:48 --> 00:30:49
			to see how our Islam
		
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51
			tackles these very important issues.
		
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54
			Peace be unto you.