Channel: Jamal Badawi
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Salam Alaikum Welcome to another episode of Islamic focused. I'm your host hammer Rashid. We're continuing with our series dealing with the sources of Islam. And today we have our third segment in the discussion of the topic of the Quran and modern sciences. I have joined me on the program as usual. Dr. Madera, we also segment University of the Jamaat Assalamu alaykum Honey, can I have you very quickly highlight the main points that we touched on in our second program, just discussing this topic of the quantum modern sciences. Okay, we'll continue what was started already in the first segment the program before that, by referring to the interesting competitive study made by Dr.
Maurice bouquet of the various statements in both in the Bible and the Quran pertaining to modern science or aspects that were discovered in science, and specifically last programmed into the story of the flood, during the days of Prophet no one. And again, we refers to the, what the Bible says about it, that it was a universal flood that destroyed every life on Earth, except, of course, those were in the ark with Prophet Noah. In the Quran, however, we are told that only the people of Noah were destroyed. And the conclusion from the standpoint of available information shows that actually, it was only the people of nowhere because there are evidence of civilizations that did exist without
interruption at the time, where the flood is said to be our set of taking place, according to the Bible.
In addition to that, we began to examine some of the other aspects in the Quran, were references to discoveries that came much later than the revelation of the Quran, were made. More specifically, the
We started by by looking at the
errors and how the earth itself fits in the vast universe. And just as a reminder, we said that the earth is almost like a drop in a big ocean if you compare it to the universe, and that the farthest stars that we are aware of
the light of that star reaches the earth in billions of light years. And imagine when you talk about the speed of light 186,000 miles per second, which means that you could go to the moon in less than one and one third of a second. So imagine when you talk about, if you want to get that exercise, just start to multiply 10 billion years by the number of days, hours, minutes, seconds, and multiply all that by 186,000 miles, just to get some appreciation of the way we thought.
In terms of the origin of the universe, it was indicated that according to scientists, the universe started as a gaseous mess, and then split, successive splits. And that's where we have the galaxies, the stars and the planets which rotate under, around those tears. And more specifically, to connect that with the Quran, we indicated that there were two very interesting passages in the Quran, and one in chapter 41, or surah, 41, in which the heavens is referred to as smoke, quote, unquote, before they were fashioned, which is an interesting expression. And equally interesting is the the passage in Surah, number 21. That is in passage number 30, where it says that the heavens and earth
were all joined together, and then God split them or
diffused them. And that's an interesting again, expression given the fact that this was said or mentioned or revealed in the Quran 1400 years ago.
I'd like to begin the discussion in those program with further discussion of the split. When the split occurred, where the stars and planets The only products of the special Were there other products that were produced as well, when what we are taught by a scientist is that this process of separation or splitting up of the original primary mass, left certain remains
The scientific name they give to that is the quantum Interstellar galactic material.
Some astrophysics also, people who specialize in this particular field
refer to this remains as dusts or smokes.
Then they say that some of those so called dusts or smokes,
take the form of bright, maybe light, which reflect the light it receives from the stars. But there are also other dark nebulae,
which is less than
which was known actually before because it used to interfere with the photometric measurement in astronomy, you know, it doesn't help much in this measurements.
To tie that to the Quran, it's interesting to notice that several verses on passages in the Quran speaks about Allah or God, capital G,
creating the heavens and earth, and anything in between them are all things in between them, when we perhaps have some notion of what is heavens and earth, what is that in between them. The question here is that a possible reference to the existence of this relatively recently discovered material.
In fact, the references to that in the Quran is not only in one particular reverse, there's at least 20 passages or more in the Quran dealing with this just to give an example for those who may wish to pursue that further, in 1585, in 1920, and 50, and 59. So I think it's quite an interesting difference.
That one wonders how could the Prophet have known that if he were copying from anyone else or any other book or offering that on his own? Well, is there any scientific evidence or estimate as to how long the process of creation top?
Well, the exact period, of course, is known only to Allah, the creators, I mean, nobody can say that for sure.
it's a matter of reasonable estimates made by scientists on the basis of their studies and analysis, one cannot say for sure, it's to the best an hour,
hour or even years or even hundreds of years, because we will talk about the age of the universe, I think the term billions of years would be a rather safe
expression to use, for example, sung to say that the sun, or the age of the sun, is about what for four and half billion years.
And they estimate that you still have another five and has been in years to grow. Now,
this is rather dazzling if you make a mistake here by let's say 100 million, or 200 million, I think you're still even within the permissible or acceptable range of error.
But in any case, while it's impossible to say for sure what exact dates are there, there might be other stars, by the way, also, whose age, even more than the than the age of the sun, that it goes back to maybe 10 billion years more.
But definitely, it's a very, very long period of time.
Well, given this explanation, how do you reconcile the apparent contradiction that seems to exist when both the Bible and the Quran say that it talks? Only six days?
Okay, what is the date?
And what's the balance of that day? Let's make a very simple comparison here. First of all, in the book of Genesis, for example, it appears that the distribution of the day is clear and unmistakable, that apparently referring to a 24 hour day, or 24 hours be regular cycles of the night that we are used to.
For example, if you check in Genesis, chapter two, verse two, it says that God created the heavens and earth and six days and then he rested on the seventh. And from there, of course, as you know, can this whole notion of the respect of the Sabbath because that's the day in which the Lord listed and of course, since we know that they were the week has seven days it appears, or at least it's it seems quite implied, from Genesis, that God created heaven and earth in six days, six by 24 hours.
And that, as was indicated in previous programs, sometimes the what may appears
On the surface as similar between the Bible and Quranic examine further, sometimes interesting additional information are discovered.
It is true that many translators of the Quran for example translate
which appear young, or the origin Arabic word young as it appears in the Quran into day and the Quran a young days. And it is also true that there are passages in the Quran that says that Allah created the heavens and earth in 6am, which they translate as days.
There were DRM and Arabic could literally mean days 24 hours. But it could equally also mean a very long period of time and age or stage doesn't necessarily mean limited. The evidence is right there in the Quran itself, about this kind of definition. For example, in Surah 32, in passage five and sola 22, also 32 passage five and 22 passage 44
it says that God, or one day
of your own, for one day with God is like or equivalent to 1000 years of your own reckoning. In other words, day in the sight of Allah could be equivalent to so many years. There is even an interesting area or passage in the Quran in surah, 74, which even uses the term in a day whose measures was 50,000 years. So if you take the terminology, as used in the Quran, because the Quran explained itself, then they were young and Arabic does not necessarily mean a day, it means a very long period of time and a 50,000 years is just to give it as an example, to make us understand that the terminology we have in our
daily use is not necessarily what the Quran refers to when he talks about these
Or we have
moral issues which have the same with for example, say, in the day of the horse and buggy, for example, you know, he doesn't mean one particular day.
I mean, still exploring,
given particularly light of the explanation just given I'd be interested in exploring the
the explanation of the sequence of creation of the various elements in the in the Quran, is there any specific sequence to the creation of earth elements that's given? Okay, well, there are
certain passages in the Quran that indicates that the heavens quote unquote, which is more general expression really was created in two days, but again, taking the meaning or two yums which means two stages or two and two ages, it could be age or stage, either meanings would be acceptable to me logically. And that's valid for example, in Surah, number 41 in the Quran, especially from a a nine to 12 all of this information actually are based on
So, this is one
How can we possibly understand the Quranic expression of these two periods or two stages, according to Dr. bouquet, and he makes a suggestion which sounds reasonable, even though there could be other explanation that might also emerge as people develop more understanding of both the Quran and of silence itself
that it says possibly this could be referring to stage one or young one, which is the process of condensation
of this primary gaseous
was which is the basic or primary Nebula as they call it. And then the second stage was the second of separation, the various processes of separating these into various, you know, segments, galaxies and stars and planets and so on.
In the same passage, also, from nine to 12, we see that the Quran also refers to the creation of the earth in two periods
or two stages also. For example, it says that Allah bless the earth and measured there in all things to give them nourishment in do proportion, incorporate So on one hand, it says it was created in two days, and then the following passage it says, In four threes, if you look at this two
citations or two passages which appear in the same sort of chapter,
you will not
that you cannot take it as cumulative, you can say that the Earth was created in two days, and then God made the provision for life on Earth in four stages, it is obvious that they are overlapping or interlocking, or in a petition video saying that, and maybe the initial formation of the IRS took two days. And then after the provision were made on areas like animal life, or vegetation, the total came to four days. It just like saying, for example, I drove from New York to Chicago, in two days, then I completed the trip to Denver, Colorado. And then I say four days, does not necessarily mean that it took me four days to drive from Chicago to Denver. But that means that in addition to the
two days driving from New York to Chicago, to do additional driving distance, or driving days from Chicago to Denver, complete, the entire trip will bring it up to a total of four days.
The expression in the Quran However, when it deals with the creation of heavens, these are the earth if you take the earth as the four planets
does not seem to indicate conclusively a particular sequence or orders.
Because a term used in the in the passage in the Quran, it says semester in a summer, summer in Arabic could be translated as then, which could mean that certain things and heavens were created after the initial formation of the earth.
But in the meantime, the word summon Arabic could also mean Furthermore, which could mean also that the word interlocking stages in the creation of heavens and earth notwithstanding that one of them or the other, for the creation of of the other one
is a good discussion of that particular point, if anyone is more interested in details in Dr. Murray's book, his book, The Bible, and science, especially in chapter three, and by the way, he may add one more point before needing that issue.
There are some also like Dr. bouquet who wonders whether the mentioned in the Quran of the earth being created personally, in for periods of four stages, whether that could be a hint about what geologists call the for geological periods, and the evolution of the earth. This is an interesting question just to find out.
Is there any mentioned in the Quran about the balance of equilibrium between the heavenly systems? Well, the Quran repeatedly emphasizes that nothing in this universe exists in a haphazard way, nothing just came by chance, or just evolved without any specific plan, and planners behind it.
Just to give two related references here in the general level first and then it comes specifically to the your question
wahala conditioning in the era that Allah created everything that is in this universe in June and proper measures
innoculation and kalashnikova.
In the Quran itself, Allah speaks and says, indeed, everything have we created in due proportion?
The reference differences for that are 25, two and 5449.
The strange thing is that the there are additional passages in the Quran that even use the term like calculation, you'd be surprised that, for example, in Surah, 55, in passage number five, it says a Samsung camera,
which means the sun and the moon, are that is subject to calculations.
Which of course, is a very, very early indication when you talk about the seventh century about the very delicate balance, distance access and on orbits that scientists have been discovering much, much later than the elimination of this verses in the Quran. Indeed, when the question comes, about the divine order, if you will, in this universe, there is not only one passage, but there are several just to give a few more references, just to give the numbers for further study in 2380 640-513-1612, all of these refer to the basic notion
of this balance, as well as modern science in addition, of course, to what was mentioned earlier,
That everything follows certain pattern and laws that we discover day after day.
And bouquet, for example, says about this, that the remoteness of celestial mass masses at great distance, and in proportion to their mass itself constitute the foundation of their equilibrium. In other words, if they were much closeness than what it is there now, between these different masses, collision between these heavenly bodies would have been inevitable.
The use of lots of references to
scientists speak about a relatively recent discovery with respect to the fact that the universe is
How would you respond to that? Is there anything that would help you respond to that from a chronic perspective? Well, the first of all, the theories seem to be reasonably well established now in the lots of justification for that particular theory. Of course, there may be other theories or facts, which are much more conclusive than that, but it seems to be reasonably established and widely accepted now.
what scientists say basically, is that the universe will become bigger and bigger, the further away the galaxies
are going away from us or from from Earth another way, they keep going or moving, expanding.
In fact, as far as the Quran is concerned, we find that there is a passage, which was another puzzling to many commentators in the Quran in the past,
the text of it in Arabic says was that a man had been at war in Amazon,
that Allah says that the heavens have been built with power. And we are most your own expanding. The word expanding here, or mamasan in Arabic,
was rather difficult for many commentators to understand because none of them could conceive or think of the universe expanding, there was no such information available. So some of them interpreted in an allegorical sense. And they say Muslims also could be in allegorically, providing lots of provision or blessing.
But that verse, if it was speaking about the earth, if the verse For example, says, we created the earth, and we are most your own, it could have possibly meant
being generous and making provisions of vegetations, or animal lifestyle. But the interesting thing about diversity is that it says, What's the map? It talks about the heavens
as being expanded? So the obvious meaning of the word not allegorical meaning seems to be the one that
makes sense as far as the, our understanding of modern scientific information on that particular topic.
Before turning to what the client has to say about specific elements in the solar system, I'd like for you to explain to us why the Quran says that there are seven heavens and what the seven heavens are. Okay? Well, first of all, there are many passages in the Quran. That refers that refer to, for example, heavens and earth, in the singular as well, in singular, which, of course, could mean, at least as far as the simple person, or the
uneducated person can simply identify that there's something up there, Evans, and that is as needed. So that could be one reference.
On the other hand, you find that there are many other citations in the Quran, that use
the term heavens, in plural.
In fact, as you said, there are some actually that speaks about seven, quote unquote, heavens, for example, in 6512, and 2529, and 32, for many others talk about seven.
However, in Arabic, the number seven, and possibly even in some other traditions, other than the Arabic language, does not always mean necessarily
a particular number that 1234567 it doesn't necessarily have to mean that sequence of numbers. And many times it has been used to refer to many are numerous. Just not exactly seven, you can say or eight, you know, which is number one, and number two, it's a terminology that has been used quite frequently to mean that
and one cannot say that it could not also possibly mean seven
Because we don't know much about the universe, it's quite possible that
the first one of all of these seven could be our solar system. It is possible that that first could be the Milky Way. That's our galaxy. It's quite possible that as we discovered more about the universe, that a combination of galaxies even might be number one, and Allah knows
where the rest of the rest of the heavenly bodies are. But in other words, the meaning could could go both ways. And that's a miraculous aspect of the Quran, that expression is there
for all times to come, and for all kinds of people, and for all levels of understanding, without at any moment anybody saying that the expression in the Quran is erroneous. For example, from the scientific standpoint, if people understand it at one time as seven exact numbers fine, if you could understand it, as the word also could imply meaning. Still, there is no problem whatsoever in terms of compatibility of science, with the text of the revelation. Well, in the closing minutes of today's program, one thing that does seem to be established scientifically is that all of the elements in the universe are in constant motion. Is there any hint about that in the ground? There
are several references, in fact, in the Quran to that particular phenomenon.
For example, in one verse in the Quran, one passage, it says, What's up Kerala, Muslims, our camera that that Allah made for you are subjected for you, the sun and the moon? What is this both diligently pursuing their courses
diligently pursuing their courses. In other words, they're not station there is some constant motion.
We mentioned earlier, the passage in 55 five which talk also about the sun and moon are being subject to calculation. But in addition to this, there is also certain
passages in the Quran, which are even much more explicit about the notion of the heavenly bodies.
For example, in Surah, 21, and passage 33 it says,
Hola, hola, como de la, Washington mushrooms on karma. Kowloon Philippine Yes.
That is, Allah is the one who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon, on that his own celestial bodies
swim along or travel
along each and it's rounded course.
And equally interesting citation using very similar type of wording
is in Surah, number 36. In passage 40.
Muslims remember in a typical summer, what a layman said.
That is, it is not permitted for the sun, or to the sun, to catch up with the moon. Nor does the night outstrip the day. And each swim or swims along and it's on orbit swims along, it's on earth and we're talking here about the date of the revelation of the Quran that goes back 1400 years ago. The question is this, we know that this was not the state of knowledge and the environment in which Mohammed peace be upon him lived. And many of this information has only been known to scientists in the last couple of 100 years or so, selectively recent kind of thing. The question here is this. Had it been true that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him borrowed from any other previous book or
scriptures or other source of information?
How could he have arrived at this
information unless it is actually defined in relation to the
fascinating program? We want to thank you for watching invite you back next week. We will continue this very interesting discussion Assalamu alaikum peace PMP