Ingrid Mattson – Women of Islam 1 of 4

Ingrid Mattson
Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The host of the transcript introduces Dr. Ingrid Madsen, the head of the Islamic Society of North America, who discusses the cultural differences between the two societies. Madsen explains that the two societies have a different assessment of the value of a human being based on their ability to submit themselves to God. She provides examples of how women were the first to respond to the message of Islam, and how men were the first to support and receive the message of peace be upon him.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:23 --> 00:00:26
			Hi. Welcome to Perspectives on Faith. I'm your
		
00:00:26 --> 00:00:27
			host, Metin Tekka.
		
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30
			This week, we're coming from Hartford Seminary
		
00:00:31 --> 00:00:31
			in Connecticut.
		
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35
			We have with us today doctor Ingrid Madsen.
		
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38
			She's a professor of Islamic Studies
		
00:00:38 --> 00:00:39
			at Hartford University,
		
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42
			and she's also the president of the Islamic
		
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45
			Society of North America. Doctor Madsen, thank you
		
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46
			for coming on our show.
		
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49
			You're welcome. Would you describe the gender certification
		
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52
			of the society in which prophet Mohammed grew
		
00:00:52 --> 00:00:53
			up in?
		
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58
			What you have to understand about pre Islamic
		
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01
			Arabian society, first of all, is that
		
00:01:01 --> 00:01:02
			it was a society
		
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04
			in which there was no rule of law.
		
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08
			There was no political structure that was governing
		
00:01:09 --> 00:01:10
			the Arabian Peninsula.
		
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13
			The,
		
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14
			only
		
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17
			ruling powers were tribes
		
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19
			that were in mutual,
		
00:01:20 --> 00:01:20
			rivalry.
		
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23
			These tribes became
		
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26
			or operated in in a way similar to
		
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27
			a gang structure.
		
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30
			What that means is that the only way
		
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32
			to have power,
		
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34
			the only way to promote your interest
		
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37
			is by using brute force.
		
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40
			The tribes are are highly territorial
		
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43
			and are in constant conflict with each other.
		
00:01:44 --> 00:01:45
			A society like this
		
00:01:46 --> 00:01:46
			values
		
00:01:48 --> 00:01:48
			strength,
		
00:01:49 --> 00:01:49
			force,
		
00:01:50 --> 00:01:51
			and is highly militarized.
		
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54
			What that means is that,
		
00:01:54 --> 00:01:55
			for women,
		
00:01:56 --> 00:01:57
			their position
		
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59
			is is
		
00:01:59 --> 00:02:00
			secondary
		
00:02:00 --> 00:02:01
			to that of men
		
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04
			who who, through their strength
		
00:02:05 --> 00:02:05
			and through their,
		
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07
			violence,
		
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09
			exercise their will.
		
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11
			So the basic structure of this society is
		
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13
			one in which women,
		
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16
			as mostly noncombatants,
		
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21
			are in a secondary position to men.
		
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24
			So why would women respond positively
		
00:02:25 --> 00:02:26
			to the message of Mohammed?
		
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29
			The prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him,
		
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34
			both through his attitude and as the messenger
		
00:02:34 --> 00:02:34
			of God
		
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38
			with the Quran that that he received from
		
00:02:38 --> 00:02:39
			from God,
		
00:02:40 --> 00:02:41
			brought a message that women,
		
00:02:43 --> 00:02:44
			are equal to men,
		
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48
			in their value. And not only that, that
		
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50
			that in fact, how you value a human
		
00:02:50 --> 00:02:51
			being
		
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53
			is not through
		
00:02:53 --> 00:02:53
			their
		
00:02:55 --> 00:02:56
			brute strength,
		
00:02:57 --> 00:02:58
			not through their
		
00:02:59 --> 00:03:00
			ability to
		
00:03:01 --> 00:03:01
			dominate,
		
00:03:02 --> 00:03:03
			but in fact, their ability
		
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06
			to submit themselves to God. So there's a
		
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07
			whole different
		
00:03:07 --> 00:03:08
			paradigm shift,
		
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12
			of what makes a human being valuable.
		
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14
			In pre Islamic Arabia, what made a human
		
00:03:14 --> 00:03:15
			being valuable
		
00:03:16 --> 00:03:17
			was to be
		
00:03:17 --> 00:03:18
			a,
		
00:03:19 --> 00:03:19
			a dominant
		
00:03:21 --> 00:03:22
			warrior, someone who,
		
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25
			who by whatever means necessary,
		
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29
			subjected other people to his will.
		
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32
			What the Quran says is that the person
		
00:03:32 --> 00:03:33
			who is valuable
		
00:03:34 --> 00:03:35
			in is
		
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39
			the one who is most noble in the
		
00:03:39 --> 00:03:42
			eyes of God is the one who has
		
00:03:42 --> 00:03:43
			most awareness of God.
		
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46
			That awareness is something that can be gained
		
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48
			by either a man or a woman.
		
00:03:49 --> 00:03:49
			That,
		
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52
			that your gender has nothing to do with
		
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54
			whether you have the ability,
		
00:03:54 --> 00:03:56
			to submit yourself to god. So there's a
		
00:03:56 --> 00:03:57
			completely different,
		
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59
			assessment
		
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01
			of the value of a human being,
		
00:04:02 --> 00:04:03
			according to the Quran,
		
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06
			the Quranic paradigm.
		
00:04:07 --> 00:04:08
			Could you provide examples
		
00:04:09 --> 00:04:10
			of these women's
		
00:04:10 --> 00:04:11
			responses,
		
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14
			initial responses to Mohammed's message?
		
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17
			Well, as is well known, the first person
		
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18
			who responded
		
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19
			to
		
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22
			the prophet Muhammad's message was his wife Khadija.
		
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26
			Khadija who was really in all ways a
		
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28
			full partner to the prophet Muhammad, peace be
		
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30
			upon him. She was,
		
00:04:32 --> 00:04:33
			a mature woman
		
00:04:34 --> 00:04:34
			who was,
		
00:04:35 --> 00:04:36
			financially independent,
		
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39
			who was per who had her her professional
		
00:04:39 --> 00:04:39
			career.
		
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42
			And she and and her husband
		
00:04:43 --> 00:04:44
			really weren't always
		
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47
			full partners raising their family, having their business.
		
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51
			She knew him, as a woman knows her
		
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53
			husband, better than anyone. And when he received
		
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54
			the call,
		
00:04:55 --> 00:04:56
			by by god,
		
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59
			to come and bring this message, she was
		
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01
			the first to respond to him and supported
		
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03
			him and believed in him.
		
00:05:05 --> 00:05:05
			But,
		
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09
			you know, it didn't stop there. In fact,
		
00:05:09 --> 00:05:10
			women
		
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13
			were among the early supporters of the prophet
		
00:05:13 --> 00:05:13
			Mohammed.
		
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16
			You had not only women like Khadija, who
		
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18
			was a free woman of high status,
		
00:05:19 --> 00:05:20
			but a woman like Sumayyah,
		
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24
			who was a slave woman, who was in
		
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26
			a highly degraded position,
		
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28
			and for whom this message of Islam
		
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30
			was one of her dignity.
		
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35
			Even in a if it appeared by by
		
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36
			all objective
		
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40
			measures that she was the most degraded
		
00:05:41 --> 00:05:42
			person in Meccan society.
		
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46
			How were these women participating in the public
		
00:05:46 --> 00:05:46
			realm
		
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48
			of Mecca?
		
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50
			Muslim women in Mecca
		
00:05:52 --> 00:05:53
			experienced
		
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57
			hardship to the same degree that men did.
		
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59
			We find that, for example,
		
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03
			the first martyr in Islam was Sumayyah
		
00:06:04 --> 00:06:05
			who was murdered
		
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07
			in a brutal fashion
		
00:06:09 --> 00:06:09
			by her,
		
00:06:10 --> 00:06:11
			by Abu Jahal
		
00:06:12 --> 00:06:13
			for being a Muslim.
		
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16
			Because there was no
		
00:06:17 --> 00:06:17
			recognition
		
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20
			in Mecca, in the political order of Mecca
		
00:06:20 --> 00:06:23
			of individual human rights, it was possible
		
00:06:24 --> 00:06:24
			for someone,
		
00:06:25 --> 00:06:27
			a so called free man to kill a
		
00:06:27 --> 00:06:28
			slave with impunity.
		
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33
			Among the other women were Khadija
		
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35
			and the other women of,
		
00:06:37 --> 00:06:37
			the
		
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40
			Banu Hashim, the clan of the prophet Mohammed,
		
00:06:40 --> 00:06:41
			peace be upon him,
		
00:06:42 --> 00:06:42
			who,
		
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46
			were boycotted by the rest of Quraysh for
		
00:06:46 --> 00:06:46
			3 years,
		
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49
			who had to live on the outskirts of
		
00:06:49 --> 00:06:51
			Mecca and were deprived of,
		
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54
			meaningful sustenance. In fact, we know that Khadija,
		
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58
			died because she was weakened by the boycott.
		
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01
			She and other women suffered along with the
		
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03
			male, believers,
		
00:07:04 --> 00:07:05
			in that situation.
		
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07
			Women also,
		
00:07:08 --> 00:07:10
			were among the delegation
		
00:07:12 --> 00:07:13
			that left Mecca
		
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16
			at the command of the prophet Mohammed to
		
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18
			seek refuge with the,
		
00:07:20 --> 00:07:21
			the ruler of Abyssinia.
		
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24
			A good Christian king
		
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26
			who gave refuge and comfort
		
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29
			to the Muslims who were persecuted in Mecca.
		
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33
			Women were there with the men. So Muslim
		
00:07:33 --> 00:07:34
			women were beside,
		
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37
			the men at in at all stages,
		
00:07:38 --> 00:07:39
			in the Meccan period.