Ingrid Mattson – Preventing Sexual Abuse 52nd Annual Convention

Ingrid Mattson
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The speakers discuss the issue of sexual violence and the need for community guidelines to prevent it. They emphasize the importance of acknowledging sensitivity and creating safe spaces for survivors and their families to prevent further violence. They also discuss the challenges of sexual violence and the need for practical guidance and transparency in community guidelines and laws to ensure privacy and safety for all individuals. The speakers emphasize the need for leaders to provide clear and visible community guidelines to reduce the risk of domestic violence and ensure privacy and privacy for all individuals.

AI: Summary ©

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			My name is Janan Mohajer,
		
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			and I'm here to be your moderator for
		
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			this panel, preventing sexual violence in my community.
		
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			I wanted to get started by just doing
		
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			a quick introduction
		
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			and also doing some housekeeping before I introduce
		
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			all of our speakers.
		
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			It was the Chicago poet, Gwendolyn Brooks, who
		
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			said we are each other's business,
		
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			we are each other's harvest, we are each
		
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			other's magnitude and bond. And I always think
		
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			of this quote because when dealing with issues
		
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			as sensitive and as crucial as such violence
		
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			in our community,
		
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			I think it's important to remember that we
		
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			are all gracious with one another
		
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			and that this conversation is a beginning to
		
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			hopefully many productive conversations
		
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			in the community
		
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			with regards to this issue. And I invite
		
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			you to join in that in the Q
		
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			and A and I hope that many positive
		
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			conversations will come out of,
		
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			this first discussion.
		
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			I do also wanna say,
		
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			it is important for us to remember that
		
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			this is a brave space and a safe
		
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			space.
		
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			And what I mean by that is it's
		
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			important for us to ask questions very honestly
		
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			and openly,
		
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			but also remember that,
		
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			the conversation that we are about to have
		
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			will have a lot of details and will
		
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			have information
		
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			in connection to sexual assault and sexual violence,
		
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			which may be a trigger to some of
		
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			us who may be survivors in the room.
		
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			And if any point you feel triggered, please
		
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			remember that self care is extremely important.
		
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			If you need to step out of the
		
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			room, please remember that you should take care
		
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			of yourself, and if you need to speak
		
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			to a licensed professional afterwards, please do come
		
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			up to me,
		
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			and we will make sure that we give
		
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			you the resources that you need in order
		
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			to be connected to those professionals.
		
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			Due to the sensitivity of this topic, we
		
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			will not be doing questions out loud. You
		
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			will notice that there are note cards on
		
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			your chairs, so I would request that you,
		
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			write out your question at any point and
		
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			we have a couple of volunteers in the
		
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			room who are floating Aliyah's batch over there
		
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			with more note cards,
		
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			and she will collect your questions and bring
		
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			them up to us for the Q and
		
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			A portion
		
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			of this session.
		
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			In order to save time,
		
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			and also to think about housekeeping, I wanted
		
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			to let you know that this is being
		
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			this session is being videotaped, so just to
		
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			keep that in mind if that is something
		
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			you are,
		
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			concerned about
		
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			and, we will go hopefully until time. Our
		
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			speakers
		
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			and it's only being taped from this point
		
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			of view so we are the ones being
		
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			taped, you will not be taped.
		
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			If you
		
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			would like to ask questions privately, please come
		
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			up to us afterwards as well,
		
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			and
		
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			we are here for you as resources. There's
		
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			also resources placed on this table
		
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			to my right.
		
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			Alright.
		
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			So I will start off by introducing,
		
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			all of our speakers.
		
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			We will go in the order of introduction
		
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			and then,
		
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			do question and answer at the very end.
		
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			Nadia Mohajer, who is our first speaker, is
		
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			the co founder and executive director of Heart
		
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			Women and Girls, a nationally recognized
		
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			non non profit that works to promote sexual
		
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			health education in faith based communities.
		
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			In just 5 years, she has led the
		
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			organization to provide health education programming to over
		
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			2,000 Muslim women and girls in Chicago in
		
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			the area as well as in Southern California,
		
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			New Jersey, Boston, and Michigan.
		
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			Breaking many cultural barriers and raising awareness about
		
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			important issues such as sexual and reproductive health,
		
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			sexual violence, and media literacy.
		
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			As one of their founding board members. So
		
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			this is a cause that is both very
		
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			personal and very important to me as a,
		
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			advocate as well.
		
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			After Naya we will have doctor Ingrid Madsen
		
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			who
		
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			is a personal teacher to both me and
		
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			my husband
		
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			so I'm very grateful for her presence here
		
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			today. She was educated in Canada and the
		
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			United States earning a PhD from the University
		
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			of Chicago in 1999.
		
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			From 1998 to 2012, she was a professor
		
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			of Islamic Studies at Harper Seminary in Connecticut
		
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			where she developed and directed the first
		
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			accredited graduate program for Muslim Chaplains in America
		
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			and served as the director of the McDonough
		
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			Center for Study of Islam and Christian Muslim
		
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			Relations.
		
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			From 2001 to 2 to 2010,
		
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			doctor Mattson served as vice president and then
		
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			president of the Islamic Society of North America
		
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			and she needs no introduction to you,
		
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			but thank you Doctor. Netzant for being here.
		
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			And finally, last but not the least, Attorney
		
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			Asaf Farooqi has been very active in various
		
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			community organizations for the past decade
		
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			since earning his,
		
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			law degree and being a student law student
		
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			interning at Care Chicago.
		
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			As an attorney, he focuses his practice on
		
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			family law, estate planning, and probate litigation and
		
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			works primarily in the Chicago Muslim community.
		
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			He has represented clients in every aspect of
		
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			family law including
		
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			divorce, legal separation, child custody, child visitation, child
		
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			support,
		
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			and orders of protection.
		
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			As an attorney who works largely within the
		
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			Muslim community, mister Farooqi regularly deals with issues
		
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			of sexual abuse, sexual violence within marriages,
		
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			domestic violence, and child
		
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			abuse issues presently occurring
		
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			presently occurring in the Muslim community and has
		
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			worked with families
		
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			going through these serious issues.
		
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			With that, I give you the speakers. Thank
		
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			you very much.
		
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			Thank
		
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			you everyone,
		
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			for attending this session. My name is Nadia
		
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			Mohadjur. I am co founder and executive director
		
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			of Hard Women and Girls, and I wanted
		
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			to just start off by thanking ITSA and
		
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			CIBC for allowing me to speak alongside such
		
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			accomplished
		
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			and dynamic speakers.
		
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			So I begin today with reflections of a
		
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			dear friend of mine,
		
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			who was sexually who was sexually assaulted as
		
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			a 12 year old,
		
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			girl and faced much backlash when she came
		
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			forward to her Muslim community.
		
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			So she says, what makes us unsafe
		
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			is the illusion of safety that we have
		
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			created with our silence.
		
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			The silencing
		
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			of our survivors,
		
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			the silence of those who should know better,
		
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			and the silence of that we have created
		
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			around perpetrators.
		
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			The silence, at its very essence,
		
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			is the absence of compassion and justice.
		
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			Without compassion, there is no justice, and without
		
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			justice, there is no compassion.
		
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			So today, I'm here to talk a little
		
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			bit about how we can disable the silence,
		
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			how we can begin to start creating safer
		
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			communities,
		
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			and how ultimately we can begin to work
		
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			towards preventing sexual violence.
		
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			I also wanna acknowledge that we're here today
		
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			because of a recent sexual abuse case in
		
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			Chicago that generated local and national awareness on
		
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			this issue.
		
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			While I'm not here to discuss the details
		
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			of this case, I do wanna acknowledge that
		
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			we're here, that we wouldn't be here if
		
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			it wasn't for the bravery, and courage of
		
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			these survivors.
		
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			So before I continue, I wanted to cover
		
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			some basics.
		
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			Let's just talk about some definitions.
		
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			All unwanted
		
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			non consensual acts, whether we're talking about harassment,
		
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			abuse, or assault, is considered sexual violence.
		
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			The keyword here is nonconsensual,
		
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			which means that one of the 2 parties
		
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			involved has not agreed
		
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			to what is happening,
		
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			and in fact, is being forced to,
		
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			partake in the in what's happening.
		
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			So it's important for us to realize that
		
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			sexual violence,
		
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			is not just limited to
		
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			*. It's actually a wide range of offenses
		
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			went from,
		
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			something like showing someone explicit photos to molestation
		
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			and groping
		
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			to, * or attempted *. And it's really
		
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			important to remember that none of these should
		
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			be minimized. They're all considered crimes
		
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			and they can have a devastating impact on
		
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			survivors.
		
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			So now that we know about what sexual
		
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			violence is, let's talk a little bit about
		
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			what it's
		
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			not. First, one thing that I want to
		
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			talk about is that sexual violence is not
		
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			about the *. It's rather about the power
		
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			and control that abuser
		
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			wants to exert over his or her victim.
		
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			Another common mistake that's made in the Muslim
		
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			community in particular is to talk about sexual
		
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			violence as a crime in the same context
		
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			as zina or fornication and adultery.
		
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			And one thing that I want I want
		
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			to make that decision because zina and when
		
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			we're talking about zina and and fornication and
		
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			adultery,
		
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			those are also considered crimes in Islam, but
		
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			they involve consent to their sin, but they're
		
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			consent. They involve consent. Sexual violence does not
		
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			involve
		
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			consent. Once again, it means that there's, one
		
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			of the parties that is in involved
		
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			has not agreed to what is happening. So
		
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			So I think that's a really important dis
		
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			decision that we need to make.
		
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			So how prevalent is sexual violence? So
		
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			according to the * Abuse * National Network,
		
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			1 in 6 women 1 in 6 women
		
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			are victims of sexual abuse in her lifetime.
		
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			The CDC, Centers For Disease Control, actually estimates
		
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			that 1 in 4 girls and 1 in
		
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			6 boys are victims before the age of
		
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			18.
		
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			So, I'm gonna repeat that again. 1 is
		
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			4 girls and 1 is 6 boys. We
		
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			have no reason to believe that these numbers
		
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			are any different in the Muslim community.
		
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			Another thing that's interesting is that sexual assault
		
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			in this country are one is one of
		
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			the most underreported
		
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			crimes
		
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			in the United States of America. So, more
		
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			than 68%
		
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			never make it to the authorities.
		
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			So, in in the work that I do
		
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			at Heart Women and Girls, the central question
		
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			that we work with is what does it
		
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			mean to support victims so that they begin
		
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			to feel empowered and to seek justice?
		
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			As we know, the legal process, I'm going
		
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			to talk about that a little, can be
		
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			exhausting, can be re traumatizing, and is extremely
		
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			long, and there are many barriers that victims
		
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			face when,
		
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			trying to come forward in their communities.
		
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			So, our entire focus is supporting those survivors
		
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			and creating a community around them where they
		
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			feel empowered, they feel like they have the
		
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			resources,
		
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			and they want to go and seek justice.
		
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			So, in this work,
		
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			there are a number of lessons that we
		
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			have learned in the past.
		
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			I wanna focus on 3 of them. So
		
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			first is,
		
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			there's a greater likelihood of under reporting in
		
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			the Muslim community in particular.
		
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			There are some unique challenges that Muslim survivors
		
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			in particular face
		
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			and the victim blaming in particular is laced
		
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			with religious language.
		
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			So to talk about my first point under
		
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			reporting,
		
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			as we know, I mentioned,
		
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			more than 7 nearly 70% of cases do
		
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			not make it to the authorities.
		
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			There are research studies that show that communities
		
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			of color,
		
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			these these statistics are actually higher. This is
		
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			no different from the Muslim community. In our
		
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			work alone, we think we estimate that to
		
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			be more than 80 80 to 85%
		
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			of cases do not go to the authorities.
		
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			So that raises an important question.
		
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			What is going on with these survivors that
		
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			they're not reporting but rather having to suffer
		
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			in the silence that I talked about earlier.
		
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			So,
		
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			as we know, the barriers to reporting sexual
		
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			violence are cross cultural.
		
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			It's actually inherently,
		
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			physically, emotionally, and socially difficult to be a
		
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			survivor of sexual,
		
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			violence.
		
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			The experience is such a great violation of
		
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			one's emotional and social and physical,
		
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			safety.
		
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			Some of the
		
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			barriers that most survivors face are the first
		
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			one is
		
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			the victim may love or respect the perpetrator.
		
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			And this is not uncommon
		
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			given that 80 to 90 percent of perpetrators
		
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			are actually
		
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			people that the victim may know. So it
		
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			could be a friend, a relative, a parent,
		
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			a cousin.
		
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			And so
		
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			the the struggle is that they love this
		
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			person, they respect this person, and they struggle
		
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			with sending them to the cops or having
		
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			them arrested.
		
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			The other barrier may be that the victim
		
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			actually fears the perpetrator,
		
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			either because they fear further harm to themselves
		
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			or they fear
		
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			of harm to their loved ones.
		
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			And the perpetrator may have made certain threats
		
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			to them.
		
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			And finally, the victim may think that no
		
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			one will believe them, and this is especially
		
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			the case if we're talking about a child
		
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			or if we're talking about a person that
		
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			has,
		
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			a very,
		
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			very well known,
		
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			position of authority in the community.
		
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			So that that's those are some of the,
		
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			challenges that many survivors across cultural,
		
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			across cultures face. But we have some unique
		
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55
			challenges that we've learned about in our work
		
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57
			at Heart Women and Girls that Muslim survivors
		
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			in particular face, which I wanted to talk
		
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02
			about a little. So there's the stigma and
		
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04
			shame that peep- that survivors feel,
		
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08
			in the Muslim community in particular because of
		
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10
			the emphasis that we put on privacy and
		
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			modesty,
		
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			oftentimes that's conflated
		
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			with being assumed that it's immodest to speak
		
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			about these issues in an open way. And
		
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			so, a lot of women feel shameful coming
		
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			forward and talking about something that was so
		
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			private and so intimate,
		
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			even if it was forced upon them.
		
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			Another thing that they feel is shame. They
		
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			feel like they they could have somehow prevented
		
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34
			it. Now, I'm gonna talk about that a
		
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			little bit more when we get,
		
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			deeper into this discussion. They might also feel
		
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			self doubt. Did this even happen?
		
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			Especially when we're talking about a perpetrator that
		
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			is a religious authority,
		
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51
			who, is a person who outwardly is very,
		
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52
			very,
		
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			practicing
		
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			and religious.
		
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			They almost question how could somebody of such
		
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			moral character
		
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			do such a grave crime, and so it's
		
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			almost as if they're doubting themselves and thinking
		
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			that perhaps they imagine this.
		
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			There's also a guilt they feel of exposing
		
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			the institution or imam that did such good
		
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			in the community. Almost as if they they
		
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			fear that it's a sin, that they're that
		
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			it's gonna be a sin to expose such
		
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			such a person or such an institution.
		
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			And finally, there's a fear of community or
		
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			social consequences.
		
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			So in the close knit community that we
		
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			live in, in the Muslim world,
		
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			oftentimes
		
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			there's some serious repercussions that they're fearing. They're
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36
			fearing, you know, splitting the community in half,
		
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39
			splitting a family in half, possibly never getting
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40
			married.
		
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			These are very real concerns that Muslim survivors
		
00:14:43 --> 00:14:43
			face,
		
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			and I wanted to touch base in particular
		
00:14:46 --> 00:14:47
			about victim blaming.
		
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			I talked about this before, and I'm going
		
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51
			to go in a little bit more detail.
		
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53
			Victim blaming is when-
		
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			the definition is when the victim of a
		
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			crime or any wrongful act is held entirely
		
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01
			or partially responsible for the harm that occurred.
		
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04
			So victim blaming, again, is cross cultural. We
		
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07
			live in a country, in a society where
		
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			this is rampant and oftentimes victims, especially of
		
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			sexual violence, are blamed for the situation
		
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			that occurred.
		
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			So why was she dressed that way? Or
		
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			maybe she shouldn't have been out that late
		
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			at night.
		
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			The impact of victim blame is huge. It
		
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			further traumatizes and devastates the survivors,
		
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			it obstructs the healing process, and it also
		
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			pressures survivors and others around them, perhaps, from
		
00:15:32 --> 00:15:33
			not coming forward.
		
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			So, one of the- a lot of the
		
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			work that we do in supporting survivors is
		
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40
			focused on the following question: How can we
		
00:15:40 --> 00:15:41
			actively
		
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43
			work to create safe spaces
		
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			for survivors and their families so that more
		
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			survivors come and ultimately report?
		
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			Victim blaming in the Muslim community,
		
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			I I referred to this earlier, in particularly
		
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58
			in conservative religious communities,
		
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00
			takes upon a specific,
		
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			special religious shaming. So I talked a little
		
00:16:03 --> 00:16:06
			bit about how, oftentimes, it's talked about in
		
00:16:06 --> 00:16:07
			the same context
		
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08
			of zina and adultery.
		
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11
			It's often when we also talk about prevention
		
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13
			of sexual violence, we talk about it using,
		
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			guidelines of lowering 1 case
		
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			and, separation of gender, and certain external,
		
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			dress codes.
		
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			But I want to talk- emphasize how,
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28
			you know, while those values are something that
		
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30
			are honorable and we should,
		
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			you know, uphold in our communities,
		
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			it's really not preventative in nature.
		
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			And we know this because of the ramp
		
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			it's, how rampant sexual violence is in many
		
00:16:40 --> 00:16:41
			conservative Muslim communities
		
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			where gender is,
		
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46
			like, generally separated, where women are fully clothed.
		
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			So,
		
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			this leaves the community with many more questions
		
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55
			that I'm working with all of you. So,
		
00:16:55 --> 00:16:56
			I don't have all the answers, but these
		
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58
			are the questions that I'm thinking about.
		
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01
			With the majority of sexual assault and abuse
		
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			cases never making it to the authorities, how
		
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07
			do we, as a community, hold perpetrators accountable?
		
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10
			And how do we then create safer spaces
		
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			that disable the silence to encourage survivors to
		
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			report?
		
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17
			Because ultimately, if we don't
		
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			disable the silence and create these safer communities,
		
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			we can never
		
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			achieve that goal of preventing sexual violence in
		
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			the community.
		
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			So I'd like to end today with sharing
		
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			5 things each and every one of you
		
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			can do to begin,
		
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			start to start creating these safer,
		
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			spaces.
		
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			You don't have to be a social worker,
		
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			you don't have to be a policeman, you
		
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			don't have to be a lawyer, you just
		
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			have to care about this issue and want
		
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			to stop it in our communities. So So
		
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			the first thing you can do, and there's
		
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			a handout here that summarizes all of that.
		
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			Know know sexual violence 101. Know your definitions.
		
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			Know what it means to be a mandated
		
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			reporter. Know what constitutes as child abuse.
		
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			Many don't know what sexual violence is and
		
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			they think it's limited to * and often
		
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			all other offenses are minimized and ignored.
		
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			Talk to your kids at every level, in
		
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			the house, at your mus- at your mosques,
		
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			at- at- in your community spaces, and do
		
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			it in a way that's free of blame
		
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			and shame, that's age appropriate.
		
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			We have another parent guide there that's really
		
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			fantastic if you want to have some tips
		
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			on how to do that. But our children
		
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			need to have the tools and the language
		
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			to be able to tell us what is
		
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			happening, if something's happening, God forbid.
		
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			Know the resources in your community.
		
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			Know your hotlines. Know the crisis centers. Know
		
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			what your churches and your your mosques, and
		
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			your synagogues have to offer.
		
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			In the event that somebody comes to you
		
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			and tells you this happened to me, you
		
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			need to know where to send them.
		
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			Be mindful of your tone and your body
		
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			language at all times,
		
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			especially when you're in a public space.
		
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			The sexual violence is so,
		
00:18:54 --> 00:18:55
			rampant
		
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57
			that when you're in a public space, you're
		
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			almost always in the presence of another survivor.
		
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02
			So be careful of of how you speak,
		
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05
			whether your language is laced with victim blaming,
		
00:19:05 --> 00:19:06
			and etcetera.
		
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08
			That being said, if they come forward to
		
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			you, believe them and and direct them to
		
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			the right resources that they need. Finally, if
		
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			you hear victim blaming, shift the conversation.
		
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			So if you hear a conversation going in
		
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			the wrong direction where somebody's asking, well why
		
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23
			was she dressed that way?' why was she
		
00:19:23 --> 00:19:25
			alone in a pan?' why didn't she come
		
00:19:25 --> 00:19:26
			forward sooner?'
		
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29
			Shift the conversation to ask questions about the
		
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30
			person who actually
		
00:19:31 --> 00:19:32
			committed the crimes.
		
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34
			And with that, I think I'm gonna end,
		
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			and I'm gonna hand it over to Doctor.
		
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37
			Madsen. Thank you.
		
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			For the excellent work that they've done and
		
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			for all of those,
		
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			in Chicago who have worked on this recent
		
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			case,
		
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21
			who have in the face of
		
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			some really,
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25
			bewildering,
		
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			criticism
		
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29
			have gone forth and supported
		
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33
			and advocated for the survivors of sexual violence
		
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			and have continued with their excellent work and
		
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39
			very critical work of advocacy.
		
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43
			They're they're performing a,
		
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46
			what is it, Fartkafaya collective obligation
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:48
			on on behalf of all of us and
		
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			we all need to take this information and
		
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			knowledge,
		
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53
			and best practices forward.
		
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58
			I grew up in a Roman Catholic community,
		
00:21:00 --> 00:21:01
			and there was,
		
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04
			sexual violence that was in our institutions.
		
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08
			I'll talk a little bit about that more
		
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10
			in a minute. We had, pedophiles
		
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13
			who were among our teachers and clergy,
		
00:21:13 --> 00:21:14
			and
		
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17
			one of the things that, I've heard some
		
00:21:17 --> 00:21:18
			Muslims
		
00:21:18 --> 00:21:19
			say
		
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21
			in this kind of trying
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22
			to externalize,
		
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27
			you know, the to to the viewing that
		
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29
			sexual violence somehow can be controlled,
		
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31
			these external mechanisms
		
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33
			is saying well in Islam,
		
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36
			we have, you know, we have rules about
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:37
			Khairua,
		
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40
			about, privacy between men and women and we
		
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42
			have hijab and we have all these things
		
00:21:42 --> 00:21:43
			that protect,
		
00:21:45 --> 00:21:45
			Muslims.
		
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49
			But that's not the case
		
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52
			because ever since I've been in a position
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:53
			of public leadership
		
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55
			I've heard from,
		
00:21:55 --> 00:21:59
			women who were, sexually violated by brothers,
		
00:21:59 --> 00:22:00
			by uncles,
		
00:22:01 --> 00:22:01
			by grandfathers,
		
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03
			these are their makrams.
		
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07
			I've heard from young men who were sexually
		
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09
			assaulted by their teachers, their male teachers.
		
00:22:10 --> 00:22:11
			So,
		
00:22:12 --> 00:22:12
			again,
		
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16
			it also is not the case that because,
		
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20
			the perpetrator in my community in particular was
		
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23
			a priest that sexual chastity has anything to
		
00:22:23 --> 00:22:23
			do with
		
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25
			it. It's not about sexuality,
		
00:22:25 --> 00:22:26
			it's about control.
		
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30
			Perpetrators are attracted to professions
		
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33
			where they have access
		
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35
			to people who they could victimize.
		
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38
			This is why you tend to see among
		
00:22:38 --> 00:22:39
			coaches
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42
			of of young people's sports teams,
		
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45
			you know, it's in the Boy Scouts, it's
		
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47
			in so we don't say that, well, the
		
00:22:47 --> 00:22:48
			Boy Scouts are no good, there should be
		
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50
			no organized sports. It's that
		
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53
			people who are are are perpetrators,
		
00:22:54 --> 00:22:55
			who are predators,
		
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58
			look for opportunities
		
00:22:58 --> 00:22:59
			where they can
		
00:22:59 --> 00:23:00
			have access
		
00:23:01 --> 00:23:02
			to,
		
00:23:03 --> 00:23:04
			young people
		
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05
			who they can victimize.
		
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09
			So it's really important for us to understand
		
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11
			that this is a human problem,
		
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13
			you know, this is a human problem,
		
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17
			and as Muslims we need to understand that
		
00:23:17 --> 00:23:18
			very clearly,
		
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21
			that the solution for it is not more
		
00:23:21 --> 00:23:21
			hijab
		
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23
			or, you know, enforcing
		
00:23:24 --> 00:23:25
			headwa regulations.
		
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29
			That's that those aren't the solutions for sexual
		
00:23:29 --> 00:23:30
			violence.
		
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33
			I can't tell you how many young people
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:35
			have come to me who told me that
		
00:23:35 --> 00:23:36
			they were recently married
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:37
			and it was
		
00:23:38 --> 00:23:38
			now,
		
00:23:39 --> 00:23:41
			upon in their 1st year of marriage when
		
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44
			they were first engaged in consensual sexual activity
		
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			that suddenly
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48
			came all of these images and memories came
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50
			flooding back of sexual violence that they experienced
		
00:23:51 --> 00:23:51
			as a child
		
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55
			through their religious studies teacher, their Hafid,
		
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			their relative.
		
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02
			These things happen and it's they've ruined lives
		
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04
			So we need to understand the nature of
		
00:24:04 --> 00:24:05
			this.
		
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10
			The most important thing to prevent sexual violence
		
00:24:10 --> 00:24:11
			is to expose it
		
00:24:13 --> 00:24:14
			because perpetrators
		
00:24:15 --> 00:24:15
			flourish
		
00:24:16 --> 00:24:16
			in secrecy.
		
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21
			They use every means of
		
00:24:22 --> 00:24:22
			intimidation
		
00:24:23 --> 00:24:24
			in order to operate with impunity.
		
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27
			It's because of their status
		
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28
			in the community,
		
00:24:29 --> 00:24:30
			or in the family,
		
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34
			or in their social circle that they believe
		
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36
			they will never be found out.
		
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39
			It is because they are so devious, it's
		
00:24:39 --> 00:24:40
			because they
		
00:24:41 --> 00:24:42
			convince their victims
		
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45
			that if they expose
		
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			what's happened
		
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49
			that they will be shamed, that their family
		
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50
			will be shamed, that their community will be
		
00:24:50 --> 00:24:51
			shamed.
		
00:24:52 --> 00:24:53
			So exposing the perpetrators
		
00:24:54 --> 00:24:55
			is in fact
		
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58
			the real solution
		
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01
			to stopping this. That is the best prevention.
		
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04
			And and in fact,
		
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07
			in Islamic Sharia, the higher someone is in
		
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09
			a position of public trust and authority,
		
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12
			they're the ones who if they violate
		
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13
			will severely punish.
		
00:25:14 --> 00:25:16
			The more authority and responsibility
		
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17
			you have,
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:19
			the more severe your punishment
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21
			if you violate that.
		
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26
			And just to finish up because I want
		
00:25:26 --> 00:25:27
			you to,
		
00:25:28 --> 00:25:29
			you know, to understand
		
00:25:30 --> 00:25:33
			what does that say? 5 minutes. Okay.
		
00:25:35 --> 00:25:36
			I've got new glasses, so
		
00:25:39 --> 00:25:40
			review them.
		
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43
			You know, we think about,
		
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47
			it's very disturbing for us because we think
		
00:25:47 --> 00:25:48
			well can we trust anyone,
		
00:25:49 --> 00:25:50
			you know.
		
00:25:51 --> 00:25:52
			And of course,
		
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55
			I think back to yesterday in our,
		
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57
			one of our talks,
		
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01
			I mentioned the story of, Joseph, I mean,
		
00:26:01 --> 00:26:02
			I'm Yusuf.
		
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05
			And just think about this,
		
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09
			you know, who could you trust more
		
00:26:10 --> 00:26:11
			to take care of your son than his
		
00:26:11 --> 00:26:12
			brothers?
		
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23
			Who, I mean, in in terms of natural
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:24
			law
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:25
			and ties,
		
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28
			you know, who could you trust more
		
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30
			than those
		
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31
			people
		
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32
			to take care of him?
		
00:26:33 --> 00:26:34
			Yet, they
		
00:26:35 --> 00:26:36
			threw him in a well.
		
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39
			And Allah
		
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42
			says, verily, Sha'aban
		
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45
			is an enemy, a clear enemy to mankind.
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48
			Chetan can,
		
00:26:49 --> 00:26:51
			you know, tries to sow evil everywhere.
		
00:26:53 --> 00:26:56
			So we need systems, we need oversight, and
		
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58
			I think I was thinking about it today,
		
00:26:58 --> 00:26:59
			I was reflecting about it today because the
		
00:26:59 --> 00:27:00
			story of Joseph,
		
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04
			one of the main themes is the hidden
		
00:27:04 --> 00:27:05
			reality
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:07
			and
		
00:27:07 --> 00:27:08
			the true reality.
		
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12
			The outside and the inside, the exterior
		
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14
			world and so much of of the story
		
00:27:14 --> 00:27:15
			of Joseph
		
00:27:16 --> 00:27:17
			seems to say one thing but there's an
		
00:27:17 --> 00:27:18
			inner truth.
		
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21
			The brothers come with the shirt and say,
		
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23
			See? Here's proof. He died.
		
00:27:24 --> 00:27:25
			Look at the blood
		
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28
			on the shirt. Yet this is this evidence
		
00:27:28 --> 00:27:32
			is lying. It's it's the Quran says lying
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33
			blood, right?
		
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37
			So, and it goes on again and again
		
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39
			and again, there's so many,
		
00:27:40 --> 00:27:40
			beautiful
		
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43
			parts of the story that talk about the
		
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44
			difference between
		
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46
			what's hidden and what's real,
		
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49
			and by burying him in the well
		
00:27:50 --> 00:27:52
			they thought they hid the truth,
		
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54
			they hid the reality and it was not
		
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57
			until they were able to recognize the use
		
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59
			of in the full light of who he
		
00:27:59 --> 00:27:59
			was
		
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02
			that they were now in a state worthy
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04
			of repentance and they asked for repentance.
		
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08
			So we need to make things clear, we
		
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10
			need to make the truth clear.
		
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13
			And I'm gonna tell you something I've never
		
00:28:14 --> 00:28:15
			talked about in public but just because I
		
00:28:15 --> 00:28:16
			want you to understand,
		
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19
			especially for those of you who are survivors
		
00:28:19 --> 00:28:20
			here,
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23
			that that I I do sympathize and I
		
00:28:23 --> 00:28:23
			understand
		
00:28:24 --> 00:28:25
			with what you're going through.
		
00:28:26 --> 00:28:28
			In my community when I was 10 years
		
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30
			old, there was,
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33
			the priest in our community was a *.
		
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36
			He abused both girls and boys.
		
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40
			Now, I'm very fortunate that he never laid
		
00:28:40 --> 00:28:41
			a hand on me,
		
00:28:42 --> 00:28:42
			but
		
00:28:43 --> 00:28:44
			I was in a situation
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:46
			once where I had to witness my best
		
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48
			friend being sexually assaulted
		
00:28:48 --> 00:28:49
			by this priest.
		
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53
			I won't share with you the details, but
		
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55
			I can tell you that I remember until
		
00:28:55 --> 00:28:56
			this day
		
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58
			the temperature of that room,
		
00:28:59 --> 00:29:00
			the feel of the bench
		
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03
			underneath my seat as I sat
		
00:29:03 --> 00:29:04
			and had to watch this,
		
00:29:05 --> 00:29:06
			how the room
		
00:29:07 --> 00:29:07
			smelled,
		
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10
			every detail of it until now I can
		
00:29:10 --> 00:29:11
			remember.
		
00:29:13 --> 00:29:14
			When
		
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17
			I told someone about this
		
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19
			and then a few of us
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:20
			told,
		
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23
			we were called by our teachers
		
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25
			to stand in front of the classroom
		
00:29:25 --> 00:29:26
			and
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31
			repent and apologize
		
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32
			for slandering
		
00:29:33 --> 00:29:34
			such a great, holy person.
		
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39
			No adult believed us
		
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43
			and eventually that priest was moved to a
		
00:29:43 --> 00:29:44
			different area.
		
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47
			Now I forgot about that for many many
		
00:29:47 --> 00:29:47
			years
		
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51
			until I got married and I had children
		
00:29:51 --> 00:29:51
			and,
		
00:29:52 --> 00:29:53
			you know, there are other things that trigger
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55
			it, a certain kind of room that I
		
00:29:55 --> 00:29:56
			can walk in
		
00:29:57 --> 00:30:00
			that will make me remember exactly how I
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:01
			felt in that room.
		
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06
			When one of the
		
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08
			young men who I went to school with,
		
00:30:10 --> 00:30:12
			I saw him about 10 years ago and
		
00:30:12 --> 00:30:13
			he said,
		
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16
			he said, Ingrid, did you hear that father
		
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18
			so and so was finally arrested
		
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21
			and he's in jail in Kentucky?
		
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25
			It was extraordinary to me how I felt
		
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27
			the sense of relief.
		
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29
			I didn't even feel that I I didn't
		
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31
			realize that I felt
		
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34
			concerned, but suddenly I felt a little bit
		
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36
			like the world was a little safer.
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38
			And then when he told me a few
		
00:30:38 --> 00:30:38
			years
		
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41
			later, Ingrid, he died in jail.
		
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43
			Go look at the news.
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46
			The this the the relief
		
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48
			that I just felt flowing from my body
		
00:30:48 --> 00:30:49
			was tremendous
		
00:30:51 --> 00:30:51
			and
		
00:30:52 --> 00:30:52
			I
		
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55
			never knew that it was- I was still
		
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57
			carrying it with me.
		
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00
			And I wasn't even
		
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03
			the direct victim of his assault, but but
		
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05
			of course it was violent
		
00:31:06 --> 00:31:07
			putting me in a position where I would
		
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09
			have to watch this assault
		
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12
			especially at such a young age.
		
00:31:12 --> 00:31:13
			So
		
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15
			it really showed me how it put those
		
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17
			people, those teachers in our community,
		
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21
			all of them were good people, they were
		
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23
			moral people, they cared about us,
		
00:31:24 --> 00:31:25
			but
		
00:31:26 --> 00:31:27
			they were in denial.
		
00:31:30 --> 00:31:31
			They were in denial.
		
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33
			They did not want to believe it because
		
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36
			the consequences of believing what would happen
		
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39
			would just shatter so much of their world
		
00:31:39 --> 00:31:39
			view,
		
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43
			and it would require from them action that
		
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45
			they just didn't know that they could take.
		
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48
			The cover up, as we say, was so
		
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50
			worse than the crime.
		
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53
			I remember when it happened, I was shocked
		
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55
			that it happened but I wasn't
		
00:31:56 --> 00:31:58
			I was not unaware that such things went
		
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01
			on in the world. Somehow I I knew
		
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03
			that maybe because my father was a criminal,
		
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04
			defense lawyer.
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08
			Somehow I I was aware that such things
		
00:32:08 --> 00:32:09
			happened in the world,
		
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11
			so of course I was shocked that it
		
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13
			was this person, but it wasn't
		
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15
			completely out of
		
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18
			what I knew could happen in reality but
		
00:32:18 --> 00:32:19
			what killed me,
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22
			what killed me was the cover up
		
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24
			and that cover up that went on for
		
00:32:24 --> 00:32:25
			years years.
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:27
			We cannot
		
00:32:27 --> 00:32:28
			do that,
		
00:32:30 --> 00:32:31
			any longer.
		
00:32:32 --> 00:32:33
			It is not a way
		
00:32:34 --> 00:32:35
			to protect our community.
		
00:32:36 --> 00:32:37
			It is not a way
		
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40
			to keep the, you know, image of Islam.
		
00:32:41 --> 00:32:43
			Everyone knows
		
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45
			that these things happen in human society,
		
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48
			and the best way to show that Islam
		
00:32:48 --> 00:32:51
			stands up for justice and value and the
		
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53
			dignity of men and women
		
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55
			is for us to be
		
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57
			very,
		
00:32:58 --> 00:32:58
			straightforward
		
00:33:00 --> 00:33:01
			and in supporting,
		
00:33:02 --> 00:33:03
			those
		
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05
			who have suffered this violence
		
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08
			and in a clear message that this is
		
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10
			not acceptable. There are repentances
		
00:33:10 --> 00:33:11
			with Allah
		
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14
			but we demand justice. Thank you.
		
00:33:18 --> 00:33:18
			Salaam.
		
00:33:42 --> 00:33:44
			1st, I wanna start off by thanking the
		
00:33:44 --> 00:33:45
			Council of Islamic Organizations,
		
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48
			for inviting me to come speak about really,
		
00:33:49 --> 00:33:49
			important topic.
		
00:33:50 --> 00:33:52
			And I'm humbled to share the stage with
		
00:33:52 --> 00:33:54
			you seeing panelists today,
		
00:33:55 --> 00:33:55
			and
		
00:33:56 --> 00:33:59
			happy to be here, but at the same
		
00:33:59 --> 00:34:01
			time, instead in that, this is something that
		
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04
			we all must do. And I'm also happy
		
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06
			to see so many people coming to attend
		
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09
			this session. It shows that the community is
		
00:34:09 --> 00:34:10
			becoming more aware
		
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12
			and more passionate
		
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14
			about addressing this issue.
		
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18
			I'm here to speak about a couple things.
		
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20
			The first to talk about what
		
00:34:20 --> 00:34:22
			the council of the Solid Organization of Greater
		
00:34:22 --> 00:34:24
			Chicago has done
		
00:34:24 --> 00:34:25
			in addressing
		
00:34:26 --> 00:34:26
			these
		
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30
			this violence that's within our community and also
		
00:34:30 --> 00:34:31
			talking about
		
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34
			what's the way forward from here.
		
00:34:36 --> 00:34:38
			So starting with the council,
		
00:34:38 --> 00:34:39
			for those of you who don't know, the
		
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42
			council has a lot of organizations, Greater Chicago,
		
00:34:42 --> 00:34:42
			it's a
		
00:34:43 --> 00:34:44
			umbrella organization
		
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46
			of scores of muslim institutions,
		
00:34:47 --> 00:34:49
			advocacy groups, masjids, schools,
		
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51
			all operating in the Chicagoland area.
		
00:34:53 --> 00:34:53
			Their
		
00:34:54 --> 00:34:57
			role is to work to coordinate between the
		
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00
			organizations to help unify the community, to provide
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03
			active responses. They have many different layers.
		
00:35:04 --> 00:35:04
			And
		
00:35:06 --> 00:35:06
			partly
		
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10
			as a result of understanding the importance of
		
00:35:10 --> 00:35:11
			this issue and partly
		
00:35:11 --> 00:35:12
			in a reactive sense,
		
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13
			in understanding
		
00:35:14 --> 00:35:16
			the recent issues that have arisen within the
		
00:35:16 --> 00:35:17
			Chicagoland area,
		
00:35:17 --> 00:35:18
			specifically,
		
00:35:18 --> 00:35:19
			in Elgin.
		
00:35:20 --> 00:35:22
			The council has taken a number of steps
		
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25
			in attempting to address it, and it's taken
		
00:35:25 --> 00:35:27
			a essentially a holistic
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:28
			approach.
		
00:35:29 --> 00:35:31
			Field council is not an advocacy group in
		
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32
			of itself,
		
00:35:33 --> 00:35:34
			there are advocacy groups that are part of
		
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36
			the council. So while the council's
		
00:35:37 --> 00:35:39
			primary focus and concern is that of the
		
00:35:39 --> 00:35:40
			survivor
		
00:35:40 --> 00:35:41
			and survivor's family
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45
			and the council has attempted to support organizations
		
00:35:45 --> 00:35:47
			in doing that, the council also has to
		
00:35:47 --> 00:35:50
			look beyond just the survivor and the family
		
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52
			and look at certain other areas of the
		
00:35:52 --> 00:35:53
			community which are also affected
		
00:35:54 --> 00:35:55
			by this issue.
		
00:35:56 --> 00:35:58
			With respect to the survivor and the family,
		
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00
			the council has taken a role of supporting
		
00:36:00 --> 00:36:01
			those organizations,
		
00:36:02 --> 00:36:04
			those groups who are on the ground
		
00:36:04 --> 00:36:05
			doing the good work. And
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08
			the reality is, is that this is the
		
00:36:08 --> 00:36:10
			type of approach that organizations like the council
		
00:36:10 --> 00:36:13
			or organizations like our masjids have to learn
		
00:36:13 --> 00:36:13
			to take.
		
00:36:14 --> 00:36:16
			In the past, as I've seen very much,
		
00:36:17 --> 00:36:19
			an organization that's not trained
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21
			to work in a certain area will often
		
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23
			take on a task that it should not
		
00:36:23 --> 00:36:24
			be taking on.
		
00:36:25 --> 00:36:27
			When they're talking about dealing with survivors, assisting
		
00:36:27 --> 00:36:30
			survivors and their families, This is something that
		
00:36:30 --> 00:36:32
			requires a specialized training. It requires
		
00:36:33 --> 00:36:35
			advocacy groups. It requires groups like,
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:36
			Heart Women.
		
00:36:37 --> 00:36:39
			These are important groups to have, so what
		
00:36:39 --> 00:36:41
			the council has done is try to support
		
00:36:41 --> 00:36:44
			those groups in their individual work. The other
		
00:36:44 --> 00:36:46
			thing the council has, work to do is
		
00:36:46 --> 00:36:48
			work with the imams and scholars in our
		
00:36:48 --> 00:36:51
			community, help train them, help provide them the
		
00:36:51 --> 00:36:53
			tool. And the reason for that is the
		
00:36:53 --> 00:36:54
			Muslim community
		
00:36:54 --> 00:36:56
			has a a bit of uniqueness to it,
		
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58
			in that whenever we have a problem,
		
00:36:58 --> 00:36:59
			not just theological,
		
00:37:00 --> 00:37:01
			but social,
		
00:37:01 --> 00:37:02
			legal,
		
00:37:03 --> 00:37:06
			within the family, whatever it may be, and
		
00:37:06 --> 00:37:06
			even criminal.
		
00:37:07 --> 00:37:09
			The first thing that often most of us
		
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11
			do is go to our imam and go
		
00:37:11 --> 00:37:13
			to our scholar. And these individuals, they're not
		
00:37:13 --> 00:37:16
			trained as lawyers. They're not trained as social
		
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18
			workers. So when you bring these issues to
		
00:37:18 --> 00:37:21
			them, they try to do the best with
		
00:37:21 --> 00:37:22
			it, but it's not always
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25
			the appropriate thing to do. So what the
		
00:37:25 --> 00:37:28
			council is attempting to do and working with
		
00:37:29 --> 00:37:30
			the Imams and the scholars, is that they
		
00:37:30 --> 00:37:33
			are bringing the experts who work in these
		
00:37:33 --> 00:37:35
			areas and helping train the Imams, train the
		
00:37:35 --> 00:37:37
			scholars. When somebody comes to you, when someone's
		
00:37:37 --> 00:37:38
			a survivor
		
00:37:38 --> 00:37:40
			of this type of violence and abuse,
		
00:37:41 --> 00:37:43
			this is how you should deal with the
		
00:37:43 --> 00:37:43
			situation.
		
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46
			This is how you should direct that person.
		
00:37:46 --> 00:37:49
			And it's an essential task because, really, our
		
00:37:49 --> 00:37:50
			community will never stop,
		
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54
			going to the imams first whenever these problems
		
00:37:54 --> 00:37:54
			arise.
		
00:37:55 --> 00:37:57
			The other concern for the council is the
		
00:37:57 --> 00:38:00
			institutions themselves, and understanding
		
00:38:00 --> 00:38:01
			how the institutions
		
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03
			are first
		
00:38:03 --> 00:38:07
			liable in a situation where someone within that
		
00:38:07 --> 00:38:07
			institution
		
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10
			is committing these acts of violence.
		
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12
			And they're liable, not just in the legal
		
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14
			sense, but also in the moral sense that
		
00:38:14 --> 00:38:16
			they have a responsibility
		
00:38:16 --> 00:38:18
			for any of us who go to that
		
00:38:18 --> 00:38:21
			institution to feel safe, to know that we
		
00:38:21 --> 00:38:22
			will not have
		
00:38:23 --> 00:38:24
			our person violated
		
00:38:24 --> 00:38:25
			by going there.
		
00:38:26 --> 00:38:26
			And
		
00:38:27 --> 00:38:29
			in that vein, one thing the council has
		
00:38:29 --> 00:38:30
			produced,
		
00:38:30 --> 00:38:31
			which is
		
00:38:32 --> 00:38:35
			a quite a, accomplishment and all of you
		
00:38:35 --> 00:38:36
			have a handout,
		
00:38:36 --> 00:38:38
			that I placed on your chairs. If you
		
00:38:38 --> 00:38:40
			don't have it, we do have more copies
		
00:38:40 --> 00:38:41
			in the front. If you open up that
		
00:38:41 --> 00:38:42
			handout,
		
00:38:42 --> 00:38:44
			it is basically a snapshot
		
00:38:44 --> 00:38:46
			of the Council of Islamic Organizations
		
00:38:46 --> 00:38:47
			manual
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49
			on sexual,
		
00:38:50 --> 00:38:52
			on dealing with sexual abuse and harassment.
		
00:38:53 --> 00:38:54
			It's sort of a comprehensive guide that the
		
00:38:54 --> 00:38:56
			council has put together
		
00:38:56 --> 00:38:59
			to for schools, for institutions,
		
00:38:59 --> 00:38:59
			for
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:02
			anyone who wants to use this manual
		
00:39:02 --> 00:39:04
			to help direct
		
00:39:04 --> 00:39:07
			how to deal with this when survivors
		
00:39:07 --> 00:39:10
			come forward, when these allegations are made, what
		
00:39:10 --> 00:39:12
			should be done? It is quite comprehensive. I
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:14
			have had the opportunity to review it, and
		
00:39:14 --> 00:39:15
			I will say it's quite comprehensive.
		
00:39:16 --> 00:39:18
			One thing that our institutions lack sometimes
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:23
			is a sense of professionalism, a sense of,
		
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26
			working at its highest capacity from a legal
		
00:39:26 --> 00:39:29
			sense, from a from a business sense. One
		
00:39:29 --> 00:39:32
			thing that we often get as lawyers working
		
00:39:32 --> 00:39:34
			in the community is employment issues that arise
		
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36
			in Muslim institutions. We have a habit of
		
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39
			doing things very ad hoc. We 5 of
		
00:39:39 --> 00:39:40
			us get together, we open a board, we
		
00:39:40 --> 00:39:42
			open up a masjid, we never really think
		
00:39:42 --> 00:39:45
			about what are the actual steps and parameters
		
00:39:45 --> 00:39:47
			we have to contemplate along the way. Now
		
00:39:47 --> 00:39:48
			we've grown to a point that we can't
		
00:39:48 --> 00:39:50
			just set up shop and
		
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54
			operate a building and expect that nothing bad
		
00:39:54 --> 00:39:56
			will happen. We have to take things in
		
00:39:56 --> 00:39:59
			a very formalistic manner, a very legal manner,
		
00:39:59 --> 00:40:01
			And that's what this manual is. It is
		
00:40:01 --> 00:40:02
			an attempt
		
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04
			to work with the institutions so that they
		
00:40:04 --> 00:40:07
			now have this guide, which they can rely
		
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10
			upon and use in order to make sure
		
00:40:10 --> 00:40:13
			that what they do within the institution
		
00:40:13 --> 00:40:14
			both protects
		
00:40:14 --> 00:40:15
			the survivors
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:19
			and also addresses and roots out the oppressors
		
00:40:19 --> 00:40:21
			who commit these acts of violence.
		
00:40:21 --> 00:40:24
			And then as the council's general mission is,
		
00:40:24 --> 00:40:27
			is to address the community at large, to
		
00:40:27 --> 00:40:29
			have seminars, to have talks, to join in
		
00:40:30 --> 00:40:31
			general movements,
		
00:40:32 --> 00:40:35
			about sexual violence and against sexual violence, and
		
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37
			the council has done that as well. So
		
00:40:38 --> 00:40:39
			I'm not gonna be able to in 12
		
00:40:39 --> 00:40:42
			minutes, obviously, obviously go through that manual, but
		
00:40:42 --> 00:40:44
			I do encourage all of you to read
		
00:40:44 --> 00:40:45
			that handout, especially
		
00:40:46 --> 00:40:48
			the section in the middle which kind of
		
00:40:48 --> 00:40:51
			goes piece by piece. And if you want
		
00:40:51 --> 00:40:52
			a copy of that manual, if you want
		
00:40:52 --> 00:40:54
			to take that manual back to your individual
		
00:40:54 --> 00:40:56
			community, then contact the council and they'll be
		
00:40:56 --> 00:40:59
			happy to share that with you. It's a
		
00:40:59 --> 00:41:00
			very important tool moving forward.
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:03
			The other thing I wanted to sort of
		
00:41:03 --> 00:41:06
			address, and I think the other panelists have
		
00:41:06 --> 00:41:08
			addressed this in part, is
		
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10
			what do we do now as a community?
		
00:41:11 --> 00:41:11
			And
		
00:41:12 --> 00:41:12
			really,
		
00:41:12 --> 00:41:15
			when you're looking at this issue of sexual
		
00:41:15 --> 00:41:15
			violence,
		
00:41:17 --> 00:41:19
			we have to address it at 3 different
		
00:41:19 --> 00:41:20
			levels.
		
00:41:20 --> 00:41:22
			We have to address it as a community
		
00:41:22 --> 00:41:23
			level.
		
00:41:23 --> 00:41:24
			And
		
00:41:25 --> 00:41:26
			as a community,
		
00:41:27 --> 00:41:30
			we have a very nasty habit.
		
00:41:30 --> 00:41:33
			We have a nasty habit that we do
		
00:41:33 --> 00:41:35
			not want to admit that there are faults
		
00:41:36 --> 00:41:38
			and flaws within the Muslim community.
		
00:41:38 --> 00:41:40
			We have this desire
		
00:41:40 --> 00:41:43
			that because we are Muslim, we are immune
		
00:41:43 --> 00:41:45
			to the social ills which
		
00:41:45 --> 00:41:48
			promulgate society generally around us. Now I see
		
00:41:48 --> 00:41:49
			this as a lawyer.
		
00:41:49 --> 00:41:50
			Unfortunately,
		
00:41:50 --> 00:41:52
			when you're working as a lawyer, people generally
		
00:41:52 --> 00:41:54
			only come to you when something has gone
		
00:41:54 --> 00:41:57
			wrong or something has gone out. And
		
00:41:58 --> 00:41:59
			I can tell you
		
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01
			in my work, working in that sort of
		
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03
			underbelly of our community,
		
00:42:04 --> 00:42:04
			Muslims
		
00:42:05 --> 00:42:05
			get divorced
		
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09
			just as much and just as nasty as
		
00:42:09 --> 00:42:10
			non Muslims.
		
00:42:10 --> 00:42:12
			Muslims commit crimes
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:13
			just as much
		
00:42:14 --> 00:42:14
			as non Muslims.
		
00:42:15 --> 00:42:17
			Muslims are victims of this type of violence
		
00:42:18 --> 00:42:20
			just as much as non muslims, and muslims
		
00:42:20 --> 00:42:20
			are perpetrators
		
00:42:21 --> 00:42:23
			of this type of violence just as much
		
00:42:23 --> 00:42:24
			as non Muslims.
		
00:42:25 --> 00:42:27
			In my practice, when my partner wants to
		
00:42:27 --> 00:42:30
			start taking in DUIs, driving under the influence,
		
00:42:30 --> 00:42:31
			I I joked with him. I was like,
		
00:42:31 --> 00:42:33
			we work with Muslims, weire not going to
		
00:42:33 --> 00:42:33
			get any clients.
		
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36
			The reality is that we have a lot
		
00:42:36 --> 00:42:38
			of Muslim DUI clients. So itis not just
		
00:42:38 --> 00:42:41
			by the merit of being Muslim that we
		
00:42:41 --> 00:42:43
			become immune to these social ills. We are
		
00:42:43 --> 00:42:46
			affected just as much as any other community.
		
00:42:46 --> 00:42:49
			So we cannot address it. We cannot deny
		
00:42:49 --> 00:42:52
			that it exists because when we deny as
		
00:42:52 --> 00:42:55
			a community that these problems exist, then we,
		
00:42:55 --> 00:42:56
			by default,
		
00:42:56 --> 00:42:59
			attempt to silence a survivor without even knowing
		
00:42:59 --> 00:43:01
			that we are silencing a survivor.
		
00:43:01 --> 00:43:03
			And just to protect our image as a
		
00:43:03 --> 00:43:04
			community,
		
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06
			we have to be realistic. We have to
		
00:43:06 --> 00:43:08
			address the fact that these are problems within
		
00:43:08 --> 00:43:10
			our community. And if we are not honest
		
00:43:10 --> 00:43:12
			with each other and honest with ourselves
		
00:43:13 --> 00:43:15
			that we are just as susceptible to these
		
00:43:15 --> 00:43:18
			problems, then we will never have the collective
		
00:43:18 --> 00:43:20
			will to address these problems. We will never
		
00:43:20 --> 00:43:23
			have the collective desire to address these problems.
		
00:43:23 --> 00:43:26
			We will remain indifferent. We will think these
		
00:43:26 --> 00:43:29
			are scattered and isolated incidents. 1 in Buffalo
		
00:43:29 --> 00:43:31
			about a decade ago and 1 in Elgin
		
00:43:31 --> 00:43:33
			recently. That was it. It's not it.
		
00:43:34 --> 00:43:36
			It absolutely is not it. And as an
		
00:43:36 --> 00:43:36
			attorney
		
00:43:37 --> 00:43:38
			working in family law, I can tell you
		
00:43:38 --> 00:43:42
			sexual exists within the family. It exists between
		
00:43:42 --> 00:43:43
			husband and wife.
		
00:43:44 --> 00:43:45
			It exists between
		
00:43:45 --> 00:43:48
			parent and child. It exists between relatives in
		
00:43:48 --> 00:43:49
			our community.
		
00:43:50 --> 00:43:53
			And I've seen it on a continuous basis,
		
00:43:53 --> 00:43:55
			And we cannot deny that it exists as
		
00:43:55 --> 00:43:56
			a community.
		
00:43:57 --> 00:43:58
			And as a family,
		
00:43:58 --> 00:44:01
			we have to make it easier. We cannot
		
00:44:01 --> 00:44:04
			turn around and say, well, the reason why
		
00:44:04 --> 00:44:05
			you were assaulted
		
00:44:05 --> 00:44:07
			was because you were
		
00:44:07 --> 00:44:10
			on that date with that boy. Because you
		
00:44:10 --> 00:44:11
			were in that room with that man. You
		
00:44:11 --> 00:44:14
			chose to go work there. Whatever kind of
		
00:44:14 --> 00:44:16
			victim blaming that we have created
		
00:44:17 --> 00:44:19
			within our cultural context,
		
00:44:19 --> 00:44:22
			we cannot do that. It doesn't matter if
		
00:44:22 --> 00:44:25
			an action that was done by the victim
		
00:44:25 --> 00:44:28
			may be considered wrong morally, theologically,
		
00:44:28 --> 00:44:30
			or within your own precepts.
		
00:44:30 --> 00:44:33
			That's not important because there is no wrong
		
00:44:33 --> 00:44:34
			act that ever justifies
		
00:44:35 --> 00:44:36
			sexual violence.
		
00:44:37 --> 00:44:40
			There will never be a wrong act that
		
00:44:40 --> 00:44:43
			justifies sexual violence. So within your family,
		
00:44:43 --> 00:44:45
			you need to make sure
		
00:44:45 --> 00:44:46
			that you don't create that
		
00:44:47 --> 00:44:48
			situation.
		
00:44:49 --> 00:44:50
			And perhaps the most important
		
00:44:51 --> 00:44:53
			is that we do have to address these
		
00:44:53 --> 00:44:55
			legally. Because if we don't, if we let
		
00:44:55 --> 00:44:56
			the oppressor walk free,
		
00:44:56 --> 00:44:59
			he will move to a different community. He
		
00:44:59 --> 00:45:00
			will move somewhere else. If he just try
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:02
			to cover it up and act like it's
		
00:45:02 --> 00:45:04
			not there, he will go and victimize someone
		
00:45:04 --> 00:45:05
			in a different area.
		
00:45:06 --> 00:45:09
			So we do have to make it easy
		
00:45:09 --> 00:45:11
			for the survivor. It will never be easy
		
00:45:11 --> 00:45:13
			for a survivor of sexual violence to come
		
00:45:13 --> 00:45:16
			forward and share that experience. That will always
		
00:45:16 --> 00:45:19
			be a brave experience. But as a community,
		
00:45:19 --> 00:45:21
			as families, as individuals,
		
00:45:21 --> 00:45:23
			we have to make it as easy as
		
00:45:23 --> 00:45:24
			possible because that is the only way the
		
00:45:24 --> 00:45:24
			survivors will come forward. And then we can
		
00:45:24 --> 00:45:25
			proceed legally,
		
00:45:26 --> 00:45:27
			survivors will come forward.
		
00:45:27 --> 00:45:30
			And then we can proceed legally to punish
		
00:45:30 --> 00:45:31
			these individuals
		
00:45:31 --> 00:45:34
			and make sure they stop using our community
		
00:45:34 --> 00:45:36
			as a feeding ground.
		
00:45:37 --> 00:45:39
			As far as I'm concerned,
		
00:45:39 --> 00:45:40
			and I'll close on this,
		
00:45:44 --> 00:45:47
			I have no problem with our community having
		
00:45:47 --> 00:45:47
			a
		
00:45:48 --> 00:45:50
			negative image or a negative reflection
		
00:45:51 --> 00:45:52
			because we expose
		
00:45:53 --> 00:45:56
			these issues. The reputation of our community comes
		
00:45:56 --> 00:45:58
			second to the safety of our mothers, of
		
00:45:58 --> 00:46:01
			our sisters, and of our daughters. Thank you
		
00:46:01 --> 00:46:01
			so much.
		
00:46:08 --> 00:46:09
			Thank you so much. We will now take
		
00:46:09 --> 00:46:11
			questions. As I mentioned earlier, we will have
		
00:46:11 --> 00:46:13
			written questions for this session, so if you
		
00:46:13 --> 00:46:14
			have a question please raise your hand and
		
00:46:14 --> 00:46:16
			Alia or another volunteer will grab it from
		
00:46:16 --> 00:46:17
			you.
		
00:46:20 --> 00:46:22
			Also, as a matter of housekeeping, we would
		
00:46:22 --> 00:46:24
			love to hear feedback from you on this
		
00:46:24 --> 00:46:26
			session. There are key feedback
		
00:46:26 --> 00:46:28
			cards that you will find either on your
		
00:46:28 --> 00:46:29
			seat if there is someone on your seat
		
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31
			there as well. You're passing those out as
		
00:46:31 --> 00:46:31
			well.
		
00:46:32 --> 00:46:33
			You can also give us feedback on the
		
00:46:33 --> 00:46:34
			ISNET app.
		
00:46:35 --> 00:46:37
			So please take a few minutes on on
		
00:46:37 --> 00:46:40
			either of those, either the app electronically or
		
00:46:40 --> 00:46:42
			on the pink card, to give us feedback
		
00:46:42 --> 00:46:43
			on the session.
		
00:46:49 --> 00:46:50
			So while we get started with the questions,
		
00:46:50 --> 00:46:52
			I actually have a question for the panelist
		
00:46:52 --> 00:46:53
			and the moderator.
		
00:46:53 --> 00:46:55
			All 4 of you referenced the creation of
		
00:46:56 --> 00:46:58
			safe spaces within our community and within our
		
00:46:58 --> 00:46:58
			institutions
		
00:46:59 --> 00:47:01
			in order to create a space where survivors
		
00:47:01 --> 00:47:02
			can come forward.
		
00:47:02 --> 00:47:03
			What are some,
		
00:47:04 --> 00:47:06
			characteristics of that safe space? What does that
		
00:47:06 --> 00:47:09
			look like either on an institutional level or
		
00:47:09 --> 00:47:11
			at a familial level? What does that mean
		
00:47:11 --> 00:47:12
			to create a safe space?
		
00:47:13 --> 00:47:15
			And unfortunately, we do not have a mic
		
00:47:15 --> 00:47:16
			at the table, so if you could speak
		
00:47:16 --> 00:47:18
			up and project that would be appreciated.
		
00:47:21 --> 00:47:23
			So a lot of our work is actually
		
00:47:23 --> 00:47:26
			centered around creating these safe spaces and I
		
00:47:26 --> 00:47:26
			think,
		
00:47:27 --> 00:47:29
			for me, the hallmark of that safe space
		
00:47:29 --> 00:47:31
			is to have open open conversations
		
00:47:32 --> 00:47:34
			on * and sexuality and sexual abuse in
		
00:47:34 --> 00:47:36
			a way that is free of blame and
		
00:47:36 --> 00:47:36
			shame,
		
00:47:37 --> 00:47:38
			and is a way that
		
00:47:39 --> 00:47:42
			empowers the individual to think about their own
		
00:47:42 --> 00:47:44
			values and their own, you
		
00:47:44 --> 00:47:45
			know,
		
00:47:45 --> 00:47:46
			beliefs
		
00:47:46 --> 00:47:49
			and and feel like they're not being judged
		
00:47:49 --> 00:47:51
			for some of the beliefs or value systems
		
00:47:51 --> 00:47:51
			they have
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:54
			to allow for diversity of opinions and then,
		
00:47:55 --> 00:47:56
			talk about
		
00:47:56 --> 00:47:58
			these issues in a way that does not,
		
00:47:59 --> 00:48:02
			sort of, cloud it with, shame.
		
00:48:02 --> 00:48:04
			I think that's one of the biggest mistakes
		
00:48:04 --> 00:48:07
			that we make is just talk about sexuality
		
00:48:07 --> 00:48:08
			in a way that encourages
		
00:48:09 --> 00:48:10
			feeling ashamed about it.
		
00:48:23 --> 00:48:24
			I think,
		
00:48:24 --> 00:48:26
			addressing the same question about safe spaces, I
		
00:48:26 --> 00:48:28
			think one thing that I like about the
		
00:48:28 --> 00:48:28
			council's,
		
00:48:29 --> 00:48:31
			manual that they created for institutions was they
		
00:48:31 --> 00:48:32
			had a
		
00:48:33 --> 00:48:34
			a really long protocol
		
00:48:35 --> 00:48:36
			of as an institution,
		
00:48:36 --> 00:48:39
			when these allegations are made, when a survivor
		
00:48:39 --> 00:48:41
			comes forward, what do you do?
		
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43
			How do you deal with that? How do
		
00:48:43 --> 00:48:44
			you talk to that person?
		
00:48:45 --> 00:48:47
			How do you refer that person to,
		
00:48:47 --> 00:48:48
			the survivor to institutions
		
00:48:49 --> 00:48:51
			or to, advocacy groups that can help them.
		
00:48:51 --> 00:48:53
			But at the same time, how do you
		
00:48:53 --> 00:48:55
			deal with the individual who is the oppressor?
		
00:48:56 --> 00:48:57
			Who who who commits the violence? How do
		
00:48:57 --> 00:48:59
			we deal with that? So I think one
		
00:48:59 --> 00:49:01
			of the nice things about that manual is
		
00:49:01 --> 00:49:04
			that it gives the institutions a practical guide
		
00:49:04 --> 00:49:05
			to
		
00:49:05 --> 00:49:08
			starting on that road of making those safe
		
00:49:08 --> 00:49:09
			spaces within institutions that really aren't necessarily geared
		
00:49:09 --> 00:49:09
			towards, an
		
00:49:16 --> 00:49:16
			community
		
00:49:17 --> 00:49:18
			broadly on a whole.
		
00:49:18 --> 00:49:19
			Thank you.
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:22
			So a couple of other questions. Doctor Maxim,
		
00:49:22 --> 00:49:24
			we'd love your opinion on this one.
		
00:49:24 --> 00:49:27
			When a victim of sexual violence tells someone
		
00:49:27 --> 00:49:29
			about the incident, what is the responsibility of
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:31
			the person in life of Islamic teachings?
		
00:49:32 --> 00:49:34
			Are they supposed to report before getting confirmation?
		
00:49:34 --> 00:49:37
			Should they be quiet so the community does
		
00:49:37 --> 00:49:38
			not get a bad name?
		
00:49:42 --> 00:49:42
			Well,
		
00:49:43 --> 00:49:44
			first of all,
		
00:49:45 --> 00:49:47
			I mean, it's interesting when people say Islamic
		
00:49:47 --> 00:49:49
			teachings. They're trying to kind of,
		
00:49:50 --> 00:49:51
			segregate
		
00:49:52 --> 00:49:53
			law and morality in
		
00:49:54 --> 00:49:55
			to one side.
		
00:49:55 --> 00:49:56
			There are laws,
		
00:49:57 --> 00:50:00
			first of all, there are laws about reporting.
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:02
			And this is part of the,
		
00:50:03 --> 00:50:04
			part of the information
		
00:50:05 --> 00:50:06
			that the council's,
		
00:50:09 --> 00:50:11
			what is it, guidelines, whatever
		
00:50:12 --> 00:50:12
			manual
		
00:50:13 --> 00:50:14
			is is giving.
		
00:50:14 --> 00:50:16
			And that's really important to know. It's it's
		
00:50:16 --> 00:50:18
			important to know, 1st and foremost, if you're
		
00:50:18 --> 00:50:19
			a mandated
		
00:50:19 --> 00:50:20
			reporter.
		
00:50:20 --> 00:50:22
			There are some people who are required to
		
00:50:22 --> 00:50:25
			report, and if you don't, then you violation
		
00:50:25 --> 00:50:26
			of the law.
		
00:50:27 --> 00:50:29
			You're part of the cover up by not
		
00:50:29 --> 00:50:30
			reporting it.
		
00:50:31 --> 00:50:34
			I mean, Islamically, we all have the obligation
		
00:50:34 --> 00:50:37
			to enjoin the good and forbid the bad.
		
00:50:37 --> 00:50:38
			In fact, that's why
		
00:50:39 --> 00:50:40
			communities are founded.
		
00:50:48 --> 00:50:49
			Allah says We enjoin the good and we
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:50
			forbid the bad. We We all have a
		
00:50:50 --> 00:50:51
			responsibility
		
00:50:53 --> 00:50:53
			to,
		
00:50:54 --> 00:50:56
			prevent, to stop things that are harmful.
		
00:50:57 --> 00:50:57
			Now
		
00:50:58 --> 00:51:00
			this is all within the context of,
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05
			you know, if you're not a mandated reporter,
		
00:51:05 --> 00:51:07
			if someone speaks to you in in a
		
00:51:07 --> 00:51:08
			situation of confidentiality,
		
00:51:09 --> 00:51:11
			then it's a question of how do you
		
00:51:11 --> 00:51:12
			work with the survivor
		
00:51:12 --> 00:51:15
			to be able to to go through a
		
00:51:15 --> 00:51:15
			process
		
00:51:15 --> 00:51:16
			of
		
00:51:19 --> 00:51:19
			of,
		
00:51:20 --> 00:51:21
			reporting on that person.
		
00:51:22 --> 00:51:25
			So it's it's it's important that we understand
		
00:51:25 --> 00:51:27
			that as well. And this is why we
		
00:51:27 --> 00:51:28
			just need to have
		
00:51:28 --> 00:51:31
			we need to have clearer and more visible
		
00:51:31 --> 00:51:32
			people in our community,
		
00:51:33 --> 00:51:33
			resource people,
		
00:51:35 --> 00:51:37
			so that we know who to contact.
		
00:51:37 --> 00:51:38
			People who have,
		
00:51:39 --> 00:51:41
			who are licensed in social work and counseling,
		
00:51:42 --> 00:51:43
			who know,
		
00:51:43 --> 00:51:44
			about
		
00:51:44 --> 00:51:46
			how to how to deal with the survivor,
		
00:51:47 --> 00:51:48
			what the law is.
		
00:51:50 --> 00:51:51
			If you, you know,
		
00:51:52 --> 00:51:53
			if there is nowhere
		
00:51:54 --> 00:51:55
			in the
		
00:51:55 --> 00:51:57
			there's no office, there's no posters,
		
00:51:58 --> 00:52:00
			there's no training, there's no education,
		
00:52:00 --> 00:52:03
			then people won't know where where to go.
		
00:52:04 --> 00:52:06
			We've received a couple of questions on the
		
00:52:06 --> 00:52:08
			question of marital *.
		
00:52:08 --> 00:52:10
			The question here, a couple of them have
		
00:52:10 --> 00:52:13
			and forgive me for the language, in Islam,
		
00:52:13 --> 00:52:14
			a woman is to submit to her husband.
		
00:52:15 --> 00:52:17
			The husband has a right over his wife.
		
00:52:17 --> 00:52:19
			So what is sexual abuse on a wife?
		
00:52:19 --> 00:52:21
			I'm sorry if this is inappropriate.
		
00:52:21 --> 00:52:23
			Also, another question asking, how do you support
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:25
			a victim of domestic violence that included
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:27
			marital *?
		
00:52:28 --> 00:52:28
			Well,
		
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32
			I think one thing that we all have
		
00:52:32 --> 00:52:33
			to understand
		
00:52:34 --> 00:52:35
			is that
		
00:52:35 --> 00:52:36
			the law
		
00:52:36 --> 00:52:38
			of the country we live in, of the
		
00:52:38 --> 00:52:39
			state we live in, requires
		
00:52:40 --> 00:52:42
			consent even within a marriage.
		
00:52:43 --> 00:52:45
			So if your spouse
		
00:52:45 --> 00:52:46
			is not consenting,
		
00:52:47 --> 00:52:50
			that is considered sexual violence.
		
00:52:50 --> 00:52:53
			That is considered a crime in this country,
		
00:52:53 --> 00:52:55
			and it can be prosecuted. And
		
00:52:55 --> 00:52:58
			they will prosecute you if she chooses to
		
00:52:58 --> 00:53:00
			have the courage to come forward. And I
		
00:53:00 --> 00:53:01
			will tell you, it's very hard
		
00:53:02 --> 00:53:04
			to have the courage to come forward, especially
		
00:53:04 --> 00:53:05
			once you have kids, especially
		
00:53:06 --> 00:53:08
			with the way our community is. But if
		
00:53:08 --> 00:53:10
			you want to know legally
		
00:53:10 --> 00:53:13
			what your obligation is or or whether it
		
00:53:13 --> 00:53:16
			exists, it most certainly does exist. This is
		
00:53:16 --> 00:53:18
			a and as far as Muslims go,
		
00:53:19 --> 00:53:21
			as far as I know, we follow the
		
00:53:21 --> 00:53:23
			laws of the land in which we live.
		
00:53:23 --> 00:53:25
			And this is part of the law of
		
00:53:25 --> 00:53:28
			this land. This is a crime in this
		
00:53:28 --> 00:53:31
			country. You do have to have consent within
		
00:53:31 --> 00:53:33
			a marriage, and it's part of
		
00:53:33 --> 00:53:35
			the I'm not a scholar this month, but
		
00:53:35 --> 00:53:37
			I will say from my understanding,
		
00:53:37 --> 00:53:39
			it is part of the marital issue of
		
00:53:39 --> 00:53:41
			being good to your spouse, being good to
		
00:53:41 --> 00:53:42
			each other.
		
00:53:42 --> 00:53:44
			There's no good in each other when you're
		
00:53:44 --> 00:53:48
			committing acts. That is nothing that is there's
		
00:53:48 --> 00:53:51
			there's foulness in that. So to me, Islamically,
		
00:53:51 --> 00:53:51
			legally,
		
00:53:52 --> 00:53:55
			sexual violence can exist within a beverage, and
		
00:53:55 --> 00:53:56
			it does need to be addressed.
		
00:53:57 --> 00:53:58
			You know, I'd I'd like to hear what
		
00:53:58 --> 00:54:00
			doctor Matson has to say, but just to
		
00:54:00 --> 00:54:00
			piggyback
		
00:54:01 --> 00:54:03
			off of that, I do wanna say that
		
00:54:03 --> 00:54:04
			in this country in particular,
		
00:54:04 --> 00:54:07
			there's a lot of conversation recently about consent.
		
00:54:08 --> 00:54:09
			And I think in our community, in the
		
00:54:09 --> 00:54:11
			Muslim community, we have a tendency not to
		
00:54:11 --> 00:54:13
			teach consent.
		
00:54:13 --> 00:54:16
			It's not something we teach young people because
		
00:54:16 --> 00:54:18
			they shouldn't be in a situation that they
		
00:54:18 --> 00:54:20
			should be consented to anyway. Right? So we
		
00:54:20 --> 00:54:21
			don't teach it to young people and we
		
00:54:21 --> 00:54:23
			don't talk about it in the context of
		
00:54:23 --> 00:54:26
			marriage either because, again, the whole sexual rights
		
00:54:26 --> 00:54:26
			thing,
		
00:54:27 --> 00:54:29
			comes up. And so I think that the
		
00:54:29 --> 00:54:31
			the the whole point of consent,
		
00:54:32 --> 00:54:33
			really needs to be fleshed out,
		
00:54:34 --> 00:54:36
			and and taught in our communities. How to
		
00:54:36 --> 00:54:38
			honor consent, how to give consent, how to
		
00:54:38 --> 00:54:39
			honor consent.
		
00:54:42 --> 00:54:43
			Let me just say
		
00:54:44 --> 00:54:47
			if anyone thinks that, that in Islam, it's
		
00:54:47 --> 00:54:48
			permitted
		
00:54:48 --> 00:54:50
			for a man to * his wife, they
		
00:54:50 --> 00:54:51
			have a very,
		
00:54:52 --> 00:54:54
			serious misunderstanding with them.
		
00:54:54 --> 00:54:56
			There is no,
		
00:54:56 --> 00:55:00
			it is absolutely forbidden for any person to
		
00:55:00 --> 00:55:02
			take upon themselves to commit an act of
		
00:55:02 --> 00:55:04
			violence on another person,
		
00:55:05 --> 00:55:06
			out of the claim that they,
		
00:55:07 --> 00:55:08
			are seeking their right.
		
00:55:11 --> 00:55:13
			This requires a very long conversation, but let
		
00:55:13 --> 00:55:15
			me just put it this way.
		
00:55:16 --> 00:55:19
			And it's very unfortunate the way much
		
00:55:19 --> 00:55:20
			many,
		
00:55:20 --> 00:55:21
			sort of, kind of traditional
		
00:55:22 --> 00:55:23
			or popular
		
00:55:24 --> 00:55:26
			manuals that Islam are written because they're completely
		
00:55:26 --> 00:55:27
			misguided,
		
00:55:28 --> 00:55:29
			the way this is portrayed.
		
00:55:30 --> 00:55:31
			But if we just look at sort of
		
00:55:31 --> 00:55:32
			the the traditional
		
00:55:33 --> 00:55:36
			discussion of of rights and duties within the
		
00:55:36 --> 00:55:36
			marriage,
		
00:55:37 --> 00:55:40
			would you agree that in traditional Islamic jurisprudence
		
00:55:41 --> 00:55:43
			that a woman has the right to,
		
00:55:44 --> 00:55:45
			support by her husband.
		
00:55:47 --> 00:55:50
			Support food, shelter, most people agree.
		
00:55:51 --> 00:55:53
			So if he doesn't give me my food
		
00:55:53 --> 00:55:55
			and support support, can I take a gun
		
00:55:55 --> 00:55:57
			and put it to his head and tell
		
00:55:57 --> 00:55:58
			him give me your money?
		
00:56:00 --> 00:56:01
			Can I take a,
		
00:56:03 --> 00:56:05
			a piece of metal and say I'm gonna
		
00:56:05 --> 00:56:07
			smash you over the head if you don't
		
00:56:07 --> 00:56:08
			give me me my money?
		
00:56:09 --> 00:56:10
			You see, it's a it's a it's a
		
00:56:10 --> 00:56:12
			confusion about rights.
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:14
			When we talk about rights within the marriage,
		
00:56:14 --> 00:56:16
			we're talking about
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:17
			a relationship
		
00:56:19 --> 00:56:19
			of consent
		
00:56:20 --> 00:56:23
			that each partner will give to the other
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:24
			in a loving
		
00:56:25 --> 00:56:27
			relationship and a relationship of
		
00:56:28 --> 00:56:30
			of and Rahma, of love and mercy,
		
00:56:31 --> 00:56:34
			what they need to feel healthy and bold.
		
00:56:34 --> 00:56:35
			It is not
		
00:56:35 --> 00:56:36
			about a battle
		
00:56:37 --> 00:56:37
			for
		
00:56:38 --> 00:56:39
			bodies and resources.
		
00:56:40 --> 00:56:41
			That is an awful marriage is. So anyone
		
00:56:41 --> 00:56:44
			who thinks that that's the case is seriously
		
00:56:44 --> 00:56:46
			mistaken, and if someone is being
		
00:56:48 --> 00:56:49
			violated,
		
00:56:49 --> 00:56:51
			by their spouse, they need to seek,
		
00:56:52 --> 00:56:53
			support and,
		
00:56:53 --> 00:56:55
			to have that stopped.
		
00:56:57 --> 00:56:59
			Unfortunately, we are at time for this session
		
00:56:59 --> 00:57:00
			so we won't be able to go through
		
00:57:00 --> 00:57:02
			the rest of the questions. I urge you
		
00:57:02 --> 00:57:04
			again to please give us feedback either on
		
00:57:04 --> 00:57:06
			the ISNA app or, through the pin form.
		
00:57:07 --> 00:57:08
			Thank you so much for being here and
		
00:57:08 --> 00:57:10
			for being part of this conversation. We are
		
00:57:10 --> 00:57:12
			here as resources for you and there are
		
00:57:12 --> 00:57:14
			also resources on the table to my right.
		
00:57:14 --> 00:57:15
			Does that all of our hands sound okay?