Ingrid Mattson – Lecture The Earth Is a Home for You 6212014

Ingrid Mattson
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of community, national identity, and cultural miscommunication in determining survival and safety. They emphasize the need for a culture of value for individuals and the importance of finding a way to live in an unlawful and authentic culture. They also discuss the importance of finding a way to establish a mosque in a beautiful, blessed region, and the importance of protecting the rights of nature and community. They emphasize the need for policies to make food more expensive and the importance of protecting land and treaty rights of First Nations. They emphasize the importance of working with people who care, people of good values, and good faith to prevent harm and ensure everyone has the right to live ethically on it.
AI: Transcript ©
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Good evening.

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What a friendly, nice crowd, and,

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really glad to see each and every one

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of you.

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And very glad,

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that,

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doctor Edgar Manson

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has come home

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at least for a few days,

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and it's my pleasure to introduce her.

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Doctor Madsen is

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Islamic Studies

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at Huron

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University College,

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University of Western Ontario,

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London,

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Canada. Yeah. And,

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as you know,

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doctor Mattson Ingrid was at Hartford Seminary for

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a good long time,

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and, she graduated from the University of Chicago,

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with her PhD

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and,

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is was the founder

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of the,

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the the Muslim chaplaincy program, so the first

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Muslim chaplaincy program in the country,

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many, positions here,

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and,

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has contributed,

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my way to the seminary and to the

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larger Muslim community,

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in Connecticut and abroad and all over the

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United States. As you know, I was the

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past president of the Islamic Society of North

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America.

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And, I'm sure in Canada, they're very happy

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to have her, contributing in her wonderful,

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wise,

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and,

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and gentle way,

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to, life,

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in the Muslim community and with with friends

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in the Muslim community,

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all over Canada as well. And, of course,

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Ingrid continues to to work and do a

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lot of things, here in the United States

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as well.

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So, I think that's all I'll say. I

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suppose there's one more thing to say.

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Hebrew has, I think it's published a book

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which is one of the prettiest books. It's

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my favorite cover.

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And it's the story of Quran,

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its history and place in Muslim life. And

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if you haven't read that book,

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please do. It's a wonderful, wonderful book,

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and you will, to enjoy a lot and

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learn from it. So, Ingrid, please come here,

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and reach your friends and colleagues as well

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as some others that you may or may

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not know. Thank you, doctor.

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In the name of God, the merciful, the

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compassionate.

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Well, I'm so happy to be back to

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one of my homes.

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I'm very blessed to be able to have

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a number of homes across this world,

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this is certainly one of them.

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I want to thank Heidi Hadsell, president Hadsell,

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for asking me to come

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to speak to you today. And I want

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to thank Dean Yurai Kim for inviting me

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back to teach this week,

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to teach my,

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Maid Servants of Allah Spirituality and Muslim Women

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class.

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I'm so delighted to see that Hartford Seminary

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continues to attract such wonderful students.

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Smart, creative,

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engaged.

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It was a wonderful experience.

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So I'm gonna have to come back another

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time.

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I'm willing.

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And a broader thanks to all of those

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who have been involved in governing

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the school, Harvard Seminary,

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to those who teach here and will shape

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these programs over the year.

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Although I had long been an adult

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when I first arrived to teach at Hartford

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Seminary, I believe it is here where I

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have truly matured intellectually.

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Beyond that, this was the place where I

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could find advice and friendship

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during the challenging

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1st decade of the 3rd millennium.

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That's another way to

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I know after 911.

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Trees and power lines all across the state.

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My family had significant, but not tragic damage.

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The biggest challenge was not knowing how long

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we would be without power.

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It turned out to be 9 days.

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We did not leave the house because my

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daughter was bedridden and needed a special air

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cooling system.

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Fortunately, we had purchased a gas generator in

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case of such a necessity,

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but my husband was out of state for

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work,

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so my son and I took turns filling

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up that generator every 5 hours.

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We could not have left our house,

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even to get gas for that generator, if

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it had not been for our neighbors.

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Our car was blocked in by a driveway

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filled with fallen trees and branches.

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It was our neighbors,

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some who we knew well and others who

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knew only in

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who came

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and sawed up that wood and stacked it

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and cleared the driveway.

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Others in Connecticut were, of course, more desperate

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and in need of assistance more than we

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were.

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Many people would not have survived the disaster

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without help from their neighbors.

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One thing we know about disasters is that

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they are inescapably

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about place.

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In an age of virtual reality where we

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can escape to other countries and imaginary worlds,

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disasters

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brutally force us back into our bodies.

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Water creeps upstairs,

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flooding the attic where an elderly woman has

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taken refuge from the storm.

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The limb of an old oak oak, laden

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with snow, crashes into the home of a

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disabled man,

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taking down power lines and blocking the door.

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A criminal draws a gun in a convenience

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store, trapping half a dozen people,

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carrying shopping baskets with heads of lettuce and

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sliced bread.

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A bomb explodes at a sporting event, and

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a man looks down to see that his

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shirt was on fire and his foot was

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missing.

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In disasters,

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where we are and who is with us

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are the most important factors determining our survival.

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Disasters are all no place, and in those

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places, it is only those who are physically

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near who can save

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us. A sense of community emerges almost immediately

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in the wake of a disaster.

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One minute, we are strangers,

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avoiding eye contact as we ride the bus

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or subway to work.

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The next minute, we are clutching hands in

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the dark,

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weaving through broken glass and twisted metal.

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Soon enough, police and ambulances will arrive

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if government services are well developed and efficient.

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Where that is not the case,

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first, CNN, then perhaps the Red Cross, and

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other international aid agencies will arrive to help

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for a few weeks or months,

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or if you are lucky, maybe a few

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years.

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But at the beginning of a disaster,

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and at the end of it,

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it is the people standing beside you and

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the people living around you who would determine

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first your survival

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and next your safety.

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Necessity

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always permits exceptional

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behavior,

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and unfortunately,

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the sense of solidarity

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generated by a disaster

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can be ephemeral.

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More than that, without a disaster,

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many things can block block the establishment

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of good neighborly ties.

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Political and religious chauvinism,

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ethnic bigotry,

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cultural miscommunication,

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all these can create walls between the neighbors.

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I first saw this negative dynamic where I

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grew up in a small Canadian city known

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for

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me packing the rubber factories.

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There were so few black people in my

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community that they remained individual anomalies, not a

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racial community.

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We, the majority,

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a mix of Canadians of German, Irish, and

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English descent,

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assumed an implicit solidarity

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in being white,

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I suppose,

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only in opposition to the recent Portuguese

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Portuguese immigrants.

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Volver boys called them widows and laughed at

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their shining lab dress shoes.

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Fastidious

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housecrowns

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spoke disapprovingly of the way they turned their

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front lawns into vegetable gardens or shrines to

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Our Lady of Fatima.

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Surely, Plato would have upheld our assertions

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that vegetable gardens

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belong in the backyard.

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But their children were pretty much like us,

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and by the time we were teenagers,

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we were all embarrassed by our parents, our

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parents, so it didn't matter much anymore.

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Alas, the problem of bigotry and alienation

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from people construed

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other than us does not end

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with a reconciliation

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among neighbors.

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All too often, our hard one unity is

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solidified

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at the expense of others

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and justified

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through values such as national interest.

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National identity and citizenship

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is like an exclusive club.

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If you get in, you have all privileges.

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If not, then our collective interests

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surpass your rights,

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even your basic rights,

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to control and benefit from your natural resources

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and lands.

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Cosmopolitanism

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of Philosophy of social ethics, attempts to find

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ways to bridge the divide we make between

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us and others,

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to try to find ways to erase the

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preference we give to those familiar

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over those who are strangers.

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Some suggest that only deliberate estrangement from your

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own people is sufficient to break such group

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prejudice.

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Others might consider such estrangement

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extreme that is permanent,

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but that it could be an ethical action.

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If taken to the group to the degree

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necessary

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to break the pattern

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of granting those close to you

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rights

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and concern and compassion

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about those who are distant.

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Of course, there are many people in the

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world

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who do not have the choice

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but to be estranged

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from their people

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and their native lands.

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They're forced into displacement by economic, ecological,

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and political

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upheaval. They feel disconnected

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to people

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and lost in the land where they now

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find themselves.

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The question we need to ask ourselves

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is,

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if we can turn this estrangement, this feeling

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of disconnection,

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into a positive

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an opportunity for positive spiritual growth.

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When the prophet Mohammed and his followers did

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flee Mecca because of oppression, they settled in

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a land

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that was culturally and ecologically different.

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Many of the prophet's companions fell ill in

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Medina.

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One of them, Bilal,

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incapacitated

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by fever, recited some lines of poetry.

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Would that I could stay overnight in a

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valley,

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wherein I would be surrounded

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by the sweet smelling grasses I know.

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Would that one day I drink the water

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of

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Mejana, and would it the 2 mountains of

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Shana and Tophiel appear to me?

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Bilal missed his homeland,

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the taste of its water,

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its smells,

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the contours of its landscape.

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How many today share his sense of longing?

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But to flee oppression

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is a requirement

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if we have the opportunity

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to do so.

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They fled from Mecca to Medina

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to a foreign land

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for the sake of living an ethical life,

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A life where they could live in accordance

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with the law, and not have to distort

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their behavior

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in order to survive

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in an unlawful and

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take the souls of though those who die

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in

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sin, or who die in a state of

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hurting their own selves,

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the angels will say,

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what's your story?

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What was your situation?

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And they reply,

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we were weak and oppressed

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on the earth.

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The angels will say,

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was not god's earth spacious enough for you

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to move yourselves away from evil?

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So there's an ethical obligation to try to

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find that place to find that place

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where we can

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live as full human beings, as human beings

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of integrity and ethics.

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And this is certainly why many people come

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to this country, why many people come to

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Canada

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and other countries that are governed by the

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rule of law.

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And that is, of course, why we emphasize

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the need

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for us and them to understand

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the value and the significance

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of this system

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that ensures the rule of law.

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And it is certainly why I believe as

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a Muslim

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that it is absolutely our obligation

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to reiterate

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and emphasize

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the value of the system

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and the need to support and defend the

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system. That

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the system of law, the rule of law

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that protects

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people and ensures their religious freedom

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and their ability to live in a way

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that is

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true to their values and beliefs is absolutely

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critical.

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If we are to identify

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the nation, the modern nation state, if there

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is

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something good in the modern nation state, it

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is this ability

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to establish itself through a rule of law.

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But there are many other levels

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or perspectives from which we can analyze

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the nation and our community.

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And, of course, the problem, as I implied

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earlier,

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is when we consider our nation

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to be

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superior in and of itself,

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and are the people of our nation

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to be

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demanding and deserving

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more of having their rights, and not just

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their rights, but their needs and even their

00:15:34 --> 00:15:35

wishes fulfilled

00:15:36 --> 00:15:38

at the expense of others.

00:15:38 --> 00:15:39

This is the

00:15:40 --> 00:15:40

estrangement.

00:15:41 --> 00:15:44

This is where estrangement is needed, estrangement from

00:15:44 --> 00:15:47

the interest of the group of the group.

00:15:50 --> 00:15:53

The group sentiment is something that the great,

00:15:53 --> 00:15:54

Arab Muslim

00:15:54 --> 00:15:57

philosopher Ibn Khaldun talked about.

00:15:59 --> 00:16:00

The fact that

00:16:00 --> 00:16:01

this

00:16:02 --> 00:16:05

zeal for the group, which he called,

00:16:07 --> 00:16:08

is so important

00:16:08 --> 00:16:10

as a source of cohesion in society.

00:16:13 --> 00:16:15

It's natural within ourselves,

00:16:16 --> 00:16:18

surely during this time of the World Cup.

00:16:19 --> 00:16:20

We must understand that.

00:16:24 --> 00:16:25

But when

00:16:26 --> 00:16:28

in the World Cup, we're playing on a

00:16:28 --> 00:16:29

field

00:16:29 --> 00:16:31

where the rules are equal,

00:16:32 --> 00:16:34

and the rules are high equally tall.

00:16:36 --> 00:16:38

The goal then is to have a field

00:16:39 --> 00:16:42

where all of us as nations, as people,

00:16:43 --> 00:16:45

if this is how we are going to

00:16:45 --> 00:16:46

be formed politically,

00:16:47 --> 00:16:49

applying the same rules to us as to

00:16:49 --> 00:16:52

them, wherever they and we are.

00:16:56 --> 00:16:56

When

00:16:58 --> 00:17:01

Bilal, the companion of the prophet,

00:17:01 --> 00:17:02

missed his homeland,

00:17:04 --> 00:17:05

He was

00:17:05 --> 00:17:06

not

00:17:06 --> 00:17:07

expressing

00:17:07 --> 00:17:08

some longing for

00:17:09 --> 00:17:10

the

00:17:11 --> 00:17:12

oppression of Mecca.

00:17:13 --> 00:17:14

He was simply recognizing

00:17:15 --> 00:17:17

and expressing a very natural

00:17:17 --> 00:17:18

human connection

00:17:19 --> 00:17:20

to the land

00:17:21 --> 00:17:22

that is familiar to us.

00:17:27 --> 00:17:28

There is

00:17:28 --> 00:17:29

a question

00:17:30 --> 00:17:31

of whether any particular

00:17:31 --> 00:17:34

land is more holy or more sacred

00:17:34 --> 00:17:35

or more special

00:17:36 --> 00:17:37

than another land.

00:17:40 --> 00:17:40

The

00:17:40 --> 00:17:42

Quran answers this,

00:17:43 --> 00:17:44

I think, for Muslims saying,

00:17:47 --> 00:17:47

allowing

00:17:49 --> 00:17:52

us to spread out across the earth to

00:17:52 --> 00:17:55

seek our livelihood. In fact, commanding us to

00:17:55 --> 00:17:55

do that.

00:17:56 --> 00:17:59

And the prophet Mohammed said, the earth

00:17:59 --> 00:18:02

has been made wholesome for me.

00:18:02 --> 00:18:04

And the earth itself, the dirt,

00:18:05 --> 00:18:07

the soil is a means of purification.

00:18:08 --> 00:18:10

If you don't have water, you can purify

00:18:10 --> 00:18:12

yourself with clean soil.

00:18:13 --> 00:18:15

And the earth has been made

00:18:15 --> 00:18:16

a mosque

00:18:16 --> 00:18:18

for us, a place of prayer.

00:18:18 --> 00:18:20

So wherever a person may be when the

00:18:20 --> 00:18:22

time for prayer comes,

00:18:22 --> 00:18:25

let him or her pray wherever he or

00:18:25 --> 00:18:27

she finds himself.

00:18:28 --> 00:18:31

Our acts of worship do ground us.

00:18:33 --> 00:18:34

Anywhere we move,

00:18:35 --> 00:18:37

any place where we go in the world,

00:18:39 --> 00:18:41

first, we have to figure out where we

00:18:41 --> 00:18:43

are on this earth in order to know

00:18:43 --> 00:18:44

how to pray.

00:18:46 --> 00:18:47

We have to define that direction

00:18:48 --> 00:18:49

of the pibla,

00:18:49 --> 00:18:51

the direction of the prayer.

00:18:51 --> 00:18:53

We need to figure out the course of

00:18:53 --> 00:18:56

the sun to know the times for prayers.

00:18:57 --> 00:18:59

This should bring us in contact with the

00:18:59 --> 00:19:00

land

00:19:01 --> 00:19:02

and our evolution

00:19:03 --> 00:19:04

in contact

00:19:09 --> 00:19:09

The relationship

00:19:10 --> 00:19:12

between nature and culture and making us feel

00:19:12 --> 00:19:15

grounded and making us feel of a

00:19:17 --> 00:19:17

place

00:19:18 --> 00:19:19

is complex.

00:19:21 --> 00:19:22

When I was a child, I would roam

00:19:22 --> 00:19:24

the woods with my siblings and cousins.

00:19:25 --> 00:19:28

We were fortunate to have land shared by

00:19:28 --> 00:19:30

our large extended family for generations

00:19:31 --> 00:19:33

with summer homes strung along the shoreline.

00:19:35 --> 00:19:38

The property was a heavily wooded headland on

00:19:38 --> 00:19:39

an island,

00:19:39 --> 00:19:42

surrounded on three sides by the Saint Lawrence

00:19:42 --> 00:19:42

River.

00:19:45 --> 00:19:47

Now this was an age before a seatbelt

00:19:47 --> 00:19:49

and bicycle helmets and parents

00:19:50 --> 00:19:52

accompanying their children to the playground.

00:19:53 --> 00:19:56

There were always enough siblings or neighbor kids

00:19:56 --> 00:19:58

or cousins around to form a collectivity.

00:19:59 --> 00:20:01

They gave us sufficient

00:20:01 --> 00:20:02

measure of safety.

00:20:03 --> 00:20:06

There was a kind of instinctive cuddling together

00:20:06 --> 00:20:09

that kids had, like those schools of fish

00:20:09 --> 00:20:11

you see on the Discovery Channel.

00:20:12 --> 00:20:14

I remember one of the many days we

00:20:14 --> 00:20:16

had decided to set out for an adventure,

00:20:17 --> 00:20:19

this time to head to the big marsh

00:20:19 --> 00:20:20

to look for turtles.

00:20:21 --> 00:20:23

My mother wasn't sure we should go that

00:20:23 --> 00:20:24

far, but my father said,

00:20:25 --> 00:20:25

remember,

00:20:26 --> 00:20:27

you are never lost.

00:20:28 --> 00:20:32

Just keep going, and you'll eventually arrive either

00:20:32 --> 00:20:32

at the road

00:20:33 --> 00:20:34

or at the shore.

00:20:35 --> 00:20:37

And then you can follow that home until

00:20:37 --> 00:20:40

it takes you some place familiar.

00:20:42 --> 00:20:43

You can follow it until it takes you

00:20:43 --> 00:20:45

some place familiar, and then you can find

00:20:45 --> 00:20:47

your way home from there.

00:20:48 --> 00:20:49

Now, I know this is probably not good

00:20:49 --> 00:20:53

advice for every environment. I've seen enough wilderness

00:20:53 --> 00:20:56

survivor shows to know that foraging straight ahead

00:20:56 --> 00:20:59

in a resilient rainforest or an arctic tundra,

00:20:59 --> 00:21:00

for example,

00:21:01 --> 00:21:04

is not necessarily a successful strategy for keeping

00:21:04 --> 00:21:04

alive.

00:21:05 --> 00:21:07

But it was the right advice for this

00:21:07 --> 00:21:10

particular stretch of land upon which we wandered

00:21:10 --> 00:21:13

and where my father and his siblings and

00:21:13 --> 00:21:15

cousins had explored before us.

00:21:15 --> 00:21:18

And beneath my father's instructions was so wisdom

00:21:19 --> 00:21:20

that there are 2 kinds of things

00:21:21 --> 00:21:24

we can always find to guide us on

00:21:24 --> 00:21:25

this Earth.

00:21:26 --> 00:21:28

Human made things like a road,

00:21:28 --> 00:21:31

and natural made things like a shoreline.

00:21:32 --> 00:21:34

That is, the paths

00:21:34 --> 00:21:35

that other people

00:21:36 --> 00:21:37

have made before us,

00:21:38 --> 00:21:40

and the paths that God has set in

00:21:40 --> 00:21:41

nature.

00:21:42 --> 00:21:45

Cultural and natural signs for the journey.

00:21:48 --> 00:21:50

We live in a time of great displacement

00:21:51 --> 00:21:51

and transition.

00:21:53 --> 00:21:55

Many feel lost and out of place.

00:21:56 --> 00:21:59

To feel like we belong in a place,

00:22:00 --> 00:22:02

in the place where we live, we need

00:22:02 --> 00:22:05

to be connected to both the nature and

00:22:05 --> 00:22:06

the culture of that place.

00:22:07 --> 00:22:08

Otherwise,

00:22:08 --> 00:22:11

even if we are accompanied by some brothers

00:22:11 --> 00:22:13

and sisters, we will feel lost.

00:22:14 --> 00:22:16

We need those who have been there before

00:22:16 --> 00:22:18

us to orient us.

00:22:19 --> 00:22:22

But we need to set out and seek

00:22:22 --> 00:22:23

this learning

00:22:23 --> 00:22:24

and orientation.

00:22:26 --> 00:22:26

In Canada,

00:22:27 --> 00:22:29

it was the Aboriginal people who did this

00:22:29 --> 00:22:32

for the early English and French explorers,

00:22:33 --> 00:22:35

helping them navigate the inland waters,

00:22:36 --> 00:22:38

that is, to see the natural

00:22:38 --> 00:22:41

signs, as well as showing them cultural practices

00:22:41 --> 00:22:44

like canoe building that would carry them through

00:22:44 --> 00:22:44

the land

00:22:45 --> 00:22:47

to the places they needed to go.

00:22:48 --> 00:22:49

The Quran

00:22:50 --> 00:22:52

links the ability of humans to move through

00:22:52 --> 00:22:53

the earth

00:22:54 --> 00:22:55

as indicative

00:22:56 --> 00:22:57

of their dignity.

00:22:58 --> 00:23:01

The Quran says, we have conferred dignity on

00:23:01 --> 00:23:04

the children of Adam and born them over

00:23:04 --> 00:23:05

land and sea,

00:23:05 --> 00:23:07

and provided for them sustenance

00:23:07 --> 00:23:09

of the good things of life,

00:23:10 --> 00:23:13

and thus favored them far above most of

00:23:13 --> 00:23:14

our creation.

00:23:16 --> 00:23:17

So while

00:23:18 --> 00:23:20

we who are in transition,

00:23:22 --> 00:23:23

who feel displaced,

00:23:24 --> 00:23:26

who are on the move,

00:23:27 --> 00:23:29

are working to build

00:23:29 --> 00:23:30

our relationships

00:23:30 --> 00:23:31

of culture,

00:23:32 --> 00:23:33

figuring out

00:23:34 --> 00:23:37

how we live together our shared values.

00:23:38 --> 00:23:40

We can feel more at home on this

00:23:40 --> 00:23:41

Earth

00:23:41 --> 00:23:43

by connecting with the land,

00:23:45 --> 00:23:47

and with the other beings created by God

00:23:48 --> 00:23:49

who lived there.

00:23:50 --> 00:23:52

While we are figuring out the cultures of

00:23:52 --> 00:23:53

the people,

00:23:55 --> 00:23:57

we can have an easier time sometimes

00:23:58 --> 00:24:00

with the non human beings.

00:24:01 --> 00:24:03

And this is part of feeling at home

00:24:03 --> 00:24:04

in the world as well,

00:24:05 --> 00:24:06

is knowing

00:24:08 --> 00:24:08

and understanding

00:24:09 --> 00:24:12

our place in the community of all living

00:24:12 --> 00:24:13

things.

00:24:14 --> 00:24:16

We live in circles of community,

00:24:17 --> 00:24:17

religious,

00:24:18 --> 00:24:18

familial,

00:24:20 --> 00:24:21

national,

00:24:22 --> 00:24:23

and also

00:24:23 --> 00:24:24

the community

00:24:25 --> 00:24:28

of living beings, human and non human.

00:24:29 --> 00:24:32

The Quran talks about other creatures as having

00:24:32 --> 00:24:35

their own communities that intersect with ours.

00:24:35 --> 00:24:38

Quran says, don't you see that it is

00:24:38 --> 00:24:39

God

00:24:43 --> 00:24:44

the

00:24:46 --> 00:24:47

wings outspread.

00:24:47 --> 00:24:51

Each one knows its own prayer and praise.

00:24:54 --> 00:24:56

Even if you are praying alone in the

00:24:56 --> 00:24:57

woods,

00:24:57 --> 00:24:59

or you think you are alone,

00:24:59 --> 00:25:00

you are surrounded

00:25:01 --> 00:25:02

by other beings

00:25:02 --> 00:25:03

that are in a state of prayer and

00:25:03 --> 00:25:03

praise. The Quran says there is not an

00:25:03 --> 00:25:04

animal

00:25:06 --> 00:25:08

praise. LeGrand says there is not an animal

00:25:08 --> 00:25:10

on the Earth nor a flying creature on

00:25:10 --> 00:25:12

2 wings, but they are communities.

00:25:13 --> 00:25:15

The word here used as Umma,

00:25:15 --> 00:25:18

which we often think as somehow special to

00:25:18 --> 00:25:20

the Wilson religious community.

00:25:20 --> 00:25:23

But they too are in communities

00:25:23 --> 00:25:24

like yours.

00:25:26 --> 00:25:28

So even if we don't know many people,

00:25:28 --> 00:25:29

we shouldn't feel alone,

00:25:30 --> 00:25:32

because they are all around

00:25:32 --> 00:25:33

us. Indeed,

00:25:34 --> 00:25:34

even

00:25:35 --> 00:25:38

the little ants that invade our kitchens this

00:25:38 --> 00:25:39

time of year.

00:25:41 --> 00:25:42

But we have to remember

00:25:44 --> 00:25:46

the chapter of the Quran that's named after

00:25:46 --> 00:25:47

the end.

00:25:48 --> 00:25:51

And what a striking shift of perspective

00:25:52 --> 00:25:54

God gives us in this

00:25:54 --> 00:25:57

passage of the Quran because the ant is

00:25:57 --> 00:25:58

mentioned

00:25:58 --> 00:26:01

in the context of the description of the

00:26:01 --> 00:26:02

majestic and great army

00:26:03 --> 00:26:04

of Solomon.

00:26:05 --> 00:26:07

And he marbles his troops and he begins

00:26:07 --> 00:26:10

marching out on the earth.

00:26:10 --> 00:26:12

And we have that perspective

00:26:13 --> 00:26:15

of the human ability to be dominant and

00:26:15 --> 00:26:16

powerful.

00:26:17 --> 00:26:18

And suddenly,

00:26:19 --> 00:26:22

the little voice of the ant comes and

00:26:22 --> 00:26:22

says, hey,

00:26:23 --> 00:26:23

Solomon.

00:26:25 --> 00:26:27

Solomon is up there all you other ants.

00:26:28 --> 00:26:30

Run into your home so you don't get

00:26:30 --> 00:26:31

trampled on.

00:26:32 --> 00:26:34

God lets us hear what the ants are

00:26:34 --> 00:26:36

saying to remind us

00:26:36 --> 00:26:38

that there are others on this earth

00:26:39 --> 00:26:41

who share this space and who have a

00:26:41 --> 00:26:41

right

00:26:42 --> 00:26:44

to have their communities exist

00:26:45 --> 00:26:45

undisturbed.

00:26:47 --> 00:26:50

Solomon is given the gift of

00:26:50 --> 00:26:51

the ability

00:26:52 --> 00:26:53

to understand

00:26:53 --> 00:26:55

the end, and reassures her

00:26:56 --> 00:26:58

that you will not trample

00:26:58 --> 00:26:59

upon her home.

00:27:02 --> 00:27:04

So they are there all around us,

00:27:05 --> 00:27:06

and it can make us

00:27:07 --> 00:27:08

feel a sense of

00:27:09 --> 00:27:10

comfort and community,

00:27:12 --> 00:27:14

even during the time when it seems a

00:27:14 --> 00:27:15

little bit difficult

00:27:16 --> 00:27:18

to figure out the people around us?

00:27:21 --> 00:27:23

How do we feel that we know where

00:27:23 --> 00:27:25

we are, that we have knowledge?

00:27:28 --> 00:27:29

God,

00:27:31 --> 00:27:32

in the holy Quran

00:27:34 --> 00:27:35

describes the creation of humanity.

00:27:37 --> 00:27:40

And it is by the act of teaching

00:27:40 --> 00:27:43

Adam the names of all things

00:27:43 --> 00:27:44

that Adam

00:27:44 --> 00:27:46

become acquires and assumes

00:27:47 --> 00:27:49

this position on the Earth

00:27:53 --> 00:27:55

of being in charge

00:27:56 --> 00:27:58

as the steward of the earth,

00:27:58 --> 00:28:00

and and knowing

00:28:00 --> 00:28:03

himself and his place in creation.

00:28:05 --> 00:28:06

What does it mean

00:28:06 --> 00:28:08

to come to a place

00:28:08 --> 00:28:09

and be taught

00:28:10 --> 00:28:11

those names?

00:28:13 --> 00:28:15

It is this mountain.

00:28:16 --> 00:28:18

This is Avon Mountain. This is Avon Mountain.

00:28:18 --> 00:28:20

This is the Farmington River.

00:28:21 --> 00:28:22

This is a cardinal.

00:28:22 --> 00:28:24

This is a red tailed hawk.

00:28:26 --> 00:28:27

All of these things

00:28:28 --> 00:28:28

help us

00:28:29 --> 00:28:31

feel empowered because we know

00:28:32 --> 00:28:34

the context in which we are. We know

00:28:34 --> 00:28:35

how to call things.

00:28:36 --> 00:28:38

We know who is around us and what

00:28:38 --> 00:28:39

is around us.

00:28:41 --> 00:28:43

I went last summer to,

00:28:44 --> 00:28:45

to New Zealand

00:28:46 --> 00:28:47

to visit my best friend and to celebrate

00:28:47 --> 00:28:48

my 50th birthday with her.

00:28:57 --> 00:28:57

Amazing.

00:28:58 --> 00:29:00

I think of it all the time.

00:29:00 --> 00:29:03

New Zealand has been very generous in welcoming,

00:29:04 --> 00:29:06

you know, a significant number of war refugees

00:29:15 --> 00:29:15

you

00:29:17 --> 00:29:19

Certainly, if you're coming from Somalia,

00:29:19 --> 00:29:20

it's pretty different.

00:29:22 --> 00:29:23

And I met

00:29:24 --> 00:29:24

a community

00:29:25 --> 00:29:25

of

00:29:26 --> 00:29:26

civilians

00:29:27 --> 00:29:29

in the middle of New Zealand. They come

00:29:29 --> 00:29:30

from war.

00:29:31 --> 00:29:35

They come from a society that was in

00:29:35 --> 00:29:36

great upheaval,

00:29:36 --> 00:29:37

and they come to a place

00:29:38 --> 00:29:39

where there

00:29:39 --> 00:29:42

were lovely, welcoming people, but these people didn't

00:29:42 --> 00:29:45

look very much like them at all.

00:29:46 --> 00:29:49

Probably about as different among human beings as

00:29:49 --> 00:29:49

you could get.

00:29:51 --> 00:29:55

Their customs, their habits, their way of reading,

00:29:57 --> 00:29:58

their expectations

00:29:59 --> 00:29:59

for

00:30:01 --> 00:30:01

many things

00:30:02 --> 00:30:04

about the way that people would

00:30:05 --> 00:30:07

live in society, how they would socialize,

00:30:08 --> 00:30:09

were very different.

00:30:10 --> 00:30:11

They felt awkward.

00:30:13 --> 00:30:13

They

00:30:14 --> 00:30:15

felt foreign.

00:30:15 --> 00:30:16

They felt alien.

00:30:18 --> 00:30:19

And in this context,

00:30:20 --> 00:30:21

there is a

00:30:21 --> 00:30:22

brilliant woman,

00:30:23 --> 00:30:24

a Japanese American,

00:30:25 --> 00:30:29

who had moved there and saw, especially with

00:30:29 --> 00:30:32

the teenage girls, the young girls,

00:30:32 --> 00:30:35

how difficult it was for them. They felt

00:30:35 --> 00:30:35

so awkward.

00:30:36 --> 00:30:39

They wore their scarves and their clothes

00:30:40 --> 00:30:41

and walked through.

00:30:42 --> 00:30:44

Their parents were so afraid to let them

00:30:44 --> 00:30:47

go anywhere. It seemed like such an unfamiliar

00:30:47 --> 00:30:48

and unsafe place.

00:30:49 --> 00:30:51

So this woman decided

00:30:52 --> 00:30:54

to get these girls connected with the land

00:30:54 --> 00:30:55

in which they lived.

00:30:55 --> 00:30:57

They weren't going to go to the clubs

00:30:58 --> 00:30:59

with the other teenagers.

00:30:59 --> 00:31:01

They weren't going to go to the dances

00:31:01 --> 00:31:02

and the parties.

00:31:03 --> 00:31:05

So all they could feel there is that

00:31:05 --> 00:31:07

they didn't belong. They didn't have something to

00:31:07 --> 00:31:08

do in this place.

00:31:10 --> 00:31:11

So she designed

00:31:11 --> 00:31:12

a program,

00:31:13 --> 00:31:15

an outdoor leadership program.

00:31:16 --> 00:31:19

3 years these girls were in this program.

00:31:20 --> 00:31:21

They learned

00:31:22 --> 00:31:23

to kayak,

00:31:25 --> 00:31:26

and set up a tent,

00:31:26 --> 00:31:28

and start a fire,

00:31:28 --> 00:31:29

and rappel,

00:31:30 --> 00:31:32

and mountain climb,

00:31:33 --> 00:31:34

and fish,

00:31:35 --> 00:31:35

and

00:31:36 --> 00:31:37

many more things.

00:31:39 --> 00:31:41

When I met these girls,

00:31:42 --> 00:31:43

it was immediately

00:31:43 --> 00:31:44

evident

00:31:44 --> 00:31:46

in how they stood,

00:31:48 --> 00:31:50

the success that this program had created. And

00:31:50 --> 00:31:53

I've seen many other refugee communities in the

00:31:53 --> 00:31:54

country

00:31:54 --> 00:31:55

before them.

00:31:56 --> 00:31:57

These girls, even though

00:31:58 --> 00:31:59

they stood

00:31:59 --> 00:32:01

about a foot shorter than me,

00:32:02 --> 00:32:03

they were even short for me,

00:32:04 --> 00:32:06

they were standing strong,

00:32:07 --> 00:32:07

tall,

00:32:08 --> 00:32:09

short edged back.

00:32:10 --> 00:32:11

They had a posture

00:32:12 --> 00:32:13

that said

00:32:14 --> 00:32:16

they owned this space that they were

00:32:17 --> 00:32:19

in. And they said to me when I

00:32:19 --> 00:32:21

got there, they said, oh,

00:32:21 --> 00:32:23

do you like the outdoors? Do you like

00:32:23 --> 00:32:25

hiking? I said, I love hiking. They said,

00:32:25 --> 00:32:27

then you have to go to this mountain

00:32:27 --> 00:32:29

and take this path because it is so

00:32:29 --> 00:32:31

beautiful. Will you have time to go to

00:32:31 --> 00:32:33

the river? Our favorite place in the river

00:32:33 --> 00:32:36

is this. And they described to me their

00:32:36 --> 00:32:37

whole landscape

00:32:37 --> 00:32:39

and what I would see there.

00:32:41 --> 00:32:44

And it was such a powerful

00:32:44 --> 00:32:44

example

00:32:45 --> 00:32:46

of how

00:32:47 --> 00:32:48

beginning with the connection

00:32:58 --> 00:33:01

it built a sense of confidence that allowed

00:33:01 --> 00:33:01

them

00:33:02 --> 00:33:04

to engage with others, and it also built

00:33:04 --> 00:33:07

a common love for the land with the

00:33:07 --> 00:33:07

other people.

00:33:09 --> 00:33:10

And

00:33:10 --> 00:33:12

it is something that the people of New

00:33:12 --> 00:33:14

Zealand is very important to them.

00:33:15 --> 00:33:18

And so now they have a deep embodied

00:33:19 --> 00:33:20

sense of belonging

00:33:20 --> 00:33:21

and commonality

00:33:22 --> 00:33:23

with their neighbors.

00:33:28 --> 00:33:29

Now

00:33:30 --> 00:33:33

if you return, however, to the issue of

00:33:36 --> 00:33:39

creating a unity among the differences that we

00:33:39 --> 00:33:40

have, whether it is

00:33:41 --> 00:33:42

between neighbors

00:33:43 --> 00:33:44

as after living,

00:33:44 --> 00:33:46

you know, for many years in my neighborhood

00:33:46 --> 00:33:47

in West Hartford,

00:33:48 --> 00:33:48

developed

00:33:49 --> 00:33:52

ties and feelings of commonality and unity with

00:33:52 --> 00:33:53

my neighbors,

00:33:54 --> 00:33:54

or this

00:33:55 --> 00:33:56

Somalian refugee

00:33:56 --> 00:33:58

community in New Zealand and their sense of

00:33:58 --> 00:34:01

becoming grounded and having something to share,

00:34:02 --> 00:34:03

how do we then,

00:34:04 --> 00:34:05

after becoming

00:34:06 --> 00:34:06

grounded

00:34:07 --> 00:34:09

and and part grounded in the land and

00:34:09 --> 00:34:10

part of society,

00:34:11 --> 00:34:14

not simply fall into the old pattern

00:34:15 --> 00:34:17

of preferring what keeps us comfortable

00:34:18 --> 00:34:19

over the rights of others.

00:34:25 --> 00:34:28

And one of the major problems for us,

00:34:28 --> 00:34:29

of course,

00:34:30 --> 00:34:30

is that

00:34:32 --> 00:34:33

the land that we come into

00:34:35 --> 00:34:36

is not always

00:34:36 --> 00:34:37

untested.

00:34:39 --> 00:34:42

When I returned to Canada after living abroad

00:34:42 --> 00:34:45

for abroad in the United States, here for

00:34:45 --> 00:34:46

so long,

00:35:06 --> 00:35:09

government to finally honor its treaty obligations.

00:35:10 --> 00:35:13

Canada still has outstanding over 600

00:35:13 --> 00:35:15

treaties with First Nations people

00:35:16 --> 00:35:19

that are either unfulfilled or whose terms have

00:35:19 --> 00:35:20

been broken.

00:35:21 --> 00:35:23

And it's become particularly urgent now at at

00:35:23 --> 00:35:25

a time of massive oil,

00:35:25 --> 00:35:27

and natural resource extraction

00:35:28 --> 00:35:28

when,

00:35:29 --> 00:35:31

the government and corporations

00:35:31 --> 00:35:32

are leveraging

00:35:33 --> 00:35:33

the

00:35:34 --> 00:35:35

undecided or indeterminate

00:35:36 --> 00:35:36

status

00:35:37 --> 00:35:38

of these treaties

00:35:39 --> 00:35:40

to push through,

00:35:40 --> 00:35:41

these projects.

00:35:44 --> 00:35:45

When I

00:35:46 --> 00:35:47

returned to Canada

00:35:47 --> 00:35:49

and learned about what was happening,

00:35:50 --> 00:35:52

at the same time there was a,

00:35:53 --> 00:35:55

one of the chiefs, Chief Teresa Spence, from

00:35:55 --> 00:35:57

one of the northern communities

00:35:58 --> 00:36:01

who had petitioned the government again and again

00:36:01 --> 00:36:03

and again and again to come and do

00:36:03 --> 00:36:03

something,

00:36:05 --> 00:36:08

to resolve these issues. When the government refused

00:36:08 --> 00:36:09

to listen, she decided

00:36:10 --> 00:36:11

to camp out

00:36:11 --> 00:36:13

on a small island

00:36:14 --> 00:36:15

in the Ottawa River

00:36:16 --> 00:36:17

that is right in a cliff,

00:36:20 --> 00:36:21

where the parliament,

00:36:22 --> 00:36:23

the parliament of Canada stands

00:36:32 --> 00:36:34

so she was able to

00:36:35 --> 00:36:36

camp on this. So tree

00:36:38 --> 00:36:40

she's she's Teresa Spence camp there for a

00:36:40 --> 00:36:42

number of months, and people came to visit

00:36:42 --> 00:36:42

her.

00:36:43 --> 00:36:44

It was to express support,

00:36:45 --> 00:36:47

and I really felt called to go do

00:36:47 --> 00:36:47

this,

00:36:48 --> 00:36:49

to

00:36:49 --> 00:36:51

demonstrate solidarity with this movement.

00:36:53 --> 00:36:54

When I was on my way,

00:36:55 --> 00:36:57

this is a quick short drive in the

00:36:57 --> 00:36:58

weekend in February,

00:36:59 --> 00:37:02

I remembered that a Hartford Seminary

00:37:02 --> 00:37:03

alum,

00:37:04 --> 00:37:04

Sammy

00:37:20 --> 00:37:23

and then became so enamored and and just

00:37:23 --> 00:37:24

enthusiastic

00:37:24 --> 00:37:27

about Christian Muslim relations and interfaith relations that

00:37:27 --> 00:37:29

he stayed and studied here. And,

00:37:32 --> 00:37:34

and when I was asked for recommendations

00:37:34 --> 00:37:34

about

00:37:35 --> 00:37:38

an imam for a number of places, I

00:37:38 --> 00:37:40

gave Sam his name, and he eventually,

00:37:41 --> 00:37:42

established himself in Ottawa.

00:37:43 --> 00:37:44

So I gave Sami a call and I

00:37:44 --> 00:37:45

said,

00:37:45 --> 00:37:47

look, I'm on the road. I'm gonna come

00:37:47 --> 00:37:49

to Ottawa. I'd really like to see your,

00:37:49 --> 00:37:51

visit you for a few minutes and see

00:37:51 --> 00:37:52

your new setting.

00:37:53 --> 00:37:54

So, of course, by by the time I

00:37:54 --> 00:37:56

got there, standing at the guy with a

00:37:56 --> 00:37:57

few 100 people

00:37:57 --> 00:37:58

in the mosque

00:37:59 --> 00:38:00

and said,

00:38:01 --> 00:38:02

you have to you have to give us

00:38:02 --> 00:38:03

a lecture. You have to tell us what

00:38:03 --> 00:38:04

you're doing.

00:38:05 --> 00:38:07

And so I talked about it, and I

00:38:07 --> 00:38:08

talked about

00:38:09 --> 00:38:09

the importance

00:38:10 --> 00:38:12

of Muslims understanding this context,

00:38:13 --> 00:38:16

particularly in the context of honoring the treaties

00:38:16 --> 00:38:16

and covenants.

00:38:18 --> 00:38:19

The Quran says,

00:38:20 --> 00:38:22

be not like the one who breaks

00:38:32 --> 00:38:33

some of you may be more powerful

00:38:34 --> 00:38:35

than others.

00:38:36 --> 00:38:38

The Koran says that the breaking

00:38:38 --> 00:38:40

of an oath and all of these treaties

00:38:40 --> 00:38:42

were made as a as a as a

00:38:42 --> 00:38:45

solemn oath that the parties would uphold the

00:38:45 --> 00:38:46

sides.

00:38:46 --> 00:38:48

The breaking of an oath must be atoned

00:38:48 --> 00:38:49

for

00:38:49 --> 00:38:52

by feeding 10 needy persons with the same

00:38:53 --> 00:38:55

food as you yourself would consume,

00:38:55 --> 00:38:58

or by giving the same clothing, or by

00:38:58 --> 00:39:00

freeing a human being from bondage.

00:39:02 --> 00:39:04

The prophet Muhammad is reporting to have said,

00:39:04 --> 00:39:07

whoever takes a false oath to deprive someone

00:39:07 --> 00:39:08

of his property

00:39:08 --> 00:39:11

will find god angry with them when he

00:39:11 --> 00:39:13

meets God on the day of judgment.

00:39:14 --> 00:39:16

It is these very stern commands

00:39:17 --> 00:39:19

that made me afraid, the son of God,

00:39:19 --> 00:39:22

of what this meant to be on the

00:39:22 --> 00:39:22

side

00:39:23 --> 00:39:24

of the tree,

00:39:25 --> 00:39:25

breakers.

00:39:27 --> 00:39:27

When

00:39:28 --> 00:39:29

I,

00:39:30 --> 00:39:31

finished my lecture

00:39:31 --> 00:39:33

and I said to Imam Sami that I

00:39:33 --> 00:39:34

was now heading

00:39:34 --> 00:39:37

down to the side, he said, why would

00:39:37 --> 00:39:38

I quit there?

00:39:40 --> 00:39:42

So he had this white, white,

00:39:43 --> 00:39:44

imam thaw on,

00:39:46 --> 00:39:46

and,

00:39:47 --> 00:39:48

threw in a jacket,

00:39:49 --> 00:39:50

completely inappropriately

00:39:50 --> 00:39:51

dressed for February

00:39:52 --> 00:39:53

in, Ottawa,

00:39:54 --> 00:39:55

Canada.

00:39:56 --> 00:39:58

Lots of snow, and it was a cold

00:39:58 --> 00:40:00

snap even for us.

00:40:00 --> 00:40:01

But he was enthusiastic,

00:40:02 --> 00:40:04

so he and a few of the members

00:40:04 --> 00:40:05

of the board of trustees came with us,

00:40:05 --> 00:40:07

and we went down to the camp.

00:40:08 --> 00:40:10

Of course, Sam was very enthusiastic, and he

00:40:10 --> 00:40:11

was talking to everyone and

00:40:15 --> 00:40:16

about the conversation

00:40:17 --> 00:40:17

with 1 of the,

00:40:18 --> 00:40:19

men from,

00:40:20 --> 00:40:21

Chief Teresa Spence's tribe,

00:40:22 --> 00:40:23

who said to him, look,

00:40:23 --> 00:40:24

it's like this.

00:40:26 --> 00:40:26

Either

00:40:27 --> 00:40:28

you

00:40:28 --> 00:40:28

are

00:40:29 --> 00:40:32

a First Nation, a member of First Nation,

00:40:32 --> 00:40:33

or you're a settler.

00:40:35 --> 00:40:37

And the look of

00:40:37 --> 00:40:38

confusion

00:40:38 --> 00:40:39

and realization

00:40:40 --> 00:40:43

on the face of someone who just immigrated

00:40:43 --> 00:40:44

to Canada a year

00:40:45 --> 00:40:46

year ago was

00:40:46 --> 00:40:48

interesting to see.

00:40:48 --> 00:40:50

Here, you had set up this dichotomy,

00:40:51 --> 00:40:53

I think. I mean, most immigrants set up

00:40:53 --> 00:40:55

a dichotomy in their mind that

00:40:56 --> 00:40:57

they are immigrants

00:40:58 --> 00:41:01

or new Canadians or new Americans, and

00:41:02 --> 00:41:03

vis a vis

00:41:03 --> 00:41:03

the

00:41:05 --> 00:41:07

old Canadians or the ones who are already

00:41:07 --> 00:41:07

there.

00:41:08 --> 00:41:10

So he considered himself to be on the

00:41:10 --> 00:41:14

side a minority in Canada. Right? He was

00:41:14 --> 00:41:16

a minority who was trying to find his

00:41:16 --> 00:41:17

way and to ensure

00:41:17 --> 00:41:18

his rights and his survival there. Now he

00:41:18 --> 00:41:19

was being told, Don't. You're a settler.

00:41:34 --> 00:41:38

This was a this is a beautiful

00:41:38 --> 00:41:39

moment, actually,

00:41:40 --> 00:41:43

to create that kind of alienation and displacement

00:41:44 --> 00:41:44

because now

00:41:47 --> 00:41:49

any of us from this position would see

00:41:49 --> 00:41:51

that we are never simply

00:41:51 --> 00:41:52

the disempowered,

00:41:52 --> 00:41:55

or we're never simply the minority,

00:41:55 --> 00:41:57

that we are also,

00:41:57 --> 00:41:59

at the same time, simultaneously,

00:42:00 --> 00:42:03

almost all of us in a position of

00:42:03 --> 00:42:06

empowerment empowerment and in a position where we

00:42:06 --> 00:42:06

are,

00:42:07 --> 00:42:11

continuing a system that denies others their rights.

00:42:12 --> 00:42:13

And of course, he was wonderful. And, you

00:42:13 --> 00:42:15

know, a few days later, he went and

00:42:15 --> 00:42:18

brought his his whole family, all his kids,

00:42:18 --> 00:42:21

his wife down to meet everyone there and

00:42:21 --> 00:42:22

continue with this education.

00:42:24 --> 00:42:26

So it was a wonderful, you know, example

00:42:26 --> 00:42:28

of you know, obviously he's a smart and

00:42:28 --> 00:42:31

ethical person who would continue this.

00:42:31 --> 00:42:33

But this is something that is,

00:42:34 --> 00:42:37

a major issue in the world today.

00:42:38 --> 00:42:40

This is not just an an issue just

00:42:40 --> 00:42:42

for Canadians, but every place in the world

00:42:42 --> 00:42:45

where indigenous people have had their lands taken

00:42:45 --> 00:42:46

from them in the past

00:42:47 --> 00:42:49

by colonial powers or settlers.

00:42:51 --> 00:42:53

This has and this has occurred from the

00:42:53 --> 00:42:56

most northern regions of North America to the

00:42:56 --> 00:42:57

southern tip of South America,

00:42:58 --> 00:43:00

as well as Australia and New Zealand.

00:43:01 --> 00:43:03

But we can't just make this a white

00:43:03 --> 00:43:03

or European

00:43:04 --> 00:43:05

problem,

00:43:06 --> 00:43:09

because as this man had pointed out to

00:43:09 --> 00:43:10

Imam Sami,

00:43:10 --> 00:43:13

those of us who come from other places

00:43:14 --> 00:43:15

become

00:43:15 --> 00:43:16

part of the empowered

00:43:17 --> 00:43:18

class.

00:43:18 --> 00:43:21

And the group that continues to perpetuate

00:43:22 --> 00:43:22

a system

00:43:23 --> 00:43:24

where these rights,

00:43:25 --> 00:43:27

the group rights, the historical rights continue to

00:43:27 --> 00:43:28

be denied.

00:43:32 --> 00:43:35

The seizing of land for the sake of

00:43:35 --> 00:43:38

establishing a new colonial settlement in your nation

00:43:38 --> 00:43:41

is generally not possible in the 21st

00:43:42 --> 00:43:42

century,

00:43:44 --> 00:43:44

tragically,

00:43:45 --> 00:43:48

so called ethnic cleansing within nations is still

00:43:48 --> 00:43:49

alive and well,

00:43:49 --> 00:43:52

with the result that some groups seize and

00:43:52 --> 00:43:54

occupy the lands of a dehumanized

00:43:54 --> 00:43:55

and stigmatized

00:43:55 --> 00:43:56

group.

00:43:57 --> 00:43:59

The most extreme and horrifying case at this

00:43:59 --> 00:44:02

time, perhaps, is occurring in Myanmar,

00:44:03 --> 00:44:06

whereas we have seen recently in Nicholas Kristof's

00:44:06 --> 00:44:07

reporting and elsewhere,

00:44:08 --> 00:44:10

even Buddhist monks are justifying

00:44:10 --> 00:44:13

and encouraging the more more murder of their

00:44:13 --> 00:44:14

origin.

00:44:15 --> 00:44:18

The situation demands urgent attention, which it is

00:44:18 --> 00:44:20

not getting. However, that is not the focus

00:44:20 --> 00:44:21

of my talk today.

00:44:22 --> 00:44:25

Rather, I return our attention to the ethics

00:44:25 --> 00:44:26

of land use and acquisition

00:44:27 --> 00:44:29

as it relates to our ability to live

00:44:29 --> 00:44:31

ethically on this earth.

00:44:32 --> 00:44:34

There are many places

00:44:34 --> 00:44:36

in the world where land is being acquired,

00:44:36 --> 00:44:38

not for the sake of settling,

00:44:39 --> 00:44:41

but in order to extract and transport

00:44:48 --> 00:44:50

of commercial farms for export.

00:44:51 --> 00:44:53

The sovereign wealth funds of countries such as

00:44:53 --> 00:44:55

Saudi Arabia and China,

00:44:56 --> 00:44:57

as well

00:44:57 --> 00:44:59

as American, Canadian,

00:44:59 --> 00:45:00

and global corporations

00:45:00 --> 00:45:01

have,

00:45:02 --> 00:45:03

with their deep pockets,

00:45:04 --> 00:45:05

somehow convinced

00:45:05 --> 00:45:08

governments to appropriate the lands

00:45:08 --> 00:45:11

for the per for purposes that mostly violate

00:45:11 --> 00:45:13

the common good. And the interests of the

00:45:13 --> 00:45:14

people,

00:45:15 --> 00:45:17

be they aboriginal or simply

00:45:17 --> 00:45:19

residents and citizens,

00:45:19 --> 00:45:22

not to mention the animals and other creatures,

00:45:22 --> 00:45:23

could inhabit these lands.

00:45:24 --> 00:45:25

This is happening in Brazil,

00:45:32 --> 00:45:35

is not a European problem. It is not

00:45:35 --> 00:45:37

a white problem. It's a global problem.

00:45:45 --> 00:45:47

You know, one of the first things Muslims

00:45:47 --> 00:45:49

do when they move to a place after

00:45:55 --> 00:45:57

orienting themselves in the world,

00:45:58 --> 00:46:00

is to look for so called halal

00:46:01 --> 00:46:01

food.

00:46:02 --> 00:46:05

What they mean by that is meat that

00:46:05 --> 00:46:06

has been slaughtered in a

00:46:07 --> 00:46:08

lawful fashion.

00:46:09 --> 00:46:12

Now, classical Islamic law books do not talk

00:46:12 --> 00:46:14

about halal nut. It's

00:46:15 --> 00:46:16

a modern

00:46:16 --> 00:46:17

turn of phrase.

00:46:18 --> 00:46:21

They simply describe the rules for the slaughter

00:46:21 --> 00:46:22

of animals for consumption,

00:46:24 --> 00:46:26

But they also describe the rules

00:46:27 --> 00:46:28

for the acquisition of land,

00:46:29 --> 00:46:30

for the use of water,

00:46:32 --> 00:46:33

for for the

00:46:34 --> 00:46:35

use or acquisition

00:46:36 --> 00:46:37

of so called

00:46:40 --> 00:46:40

dead land

00:46:41 --> 00:46:43

for what kind of crops

00:46:44 --> 00:46:46

should be grown, and when those crops are

00:46:46 --> 00:46:46

grown,

00:46:48 --> 00:46:50

who has a right to share it in

00:46:50 --> 00:46:50

none?

00:46:52 --> 00:46:52

In the wake

00:46:53 --> 00:46:54

of colonialism,

00:46:54 --> 00:46:55

perhaps,

00:46:56 --> 00:46:58

much of Islamic law has been reduced to

00:46:58 --> 00:46:59

personal practice,

00:47:00 --> 00:47:01

looking only at very

00:47:01 --> 00:47:02

narrow

00:47:02 --> 00:47:03

personal

00:47:03 --> 00:47:04

obligations,

00:47:05 --> 00:47:07

like the direct connection between

00:47:07 --> 00:47:09

the meat we eat

00:47:11 --> 00:47:12

and ourselves,

00:47:13 --> 00:47:14

and neglecting the systems

00:47:15 --> 00:47:16

in which we live.

00:47:16 --> 00:47:18

Thus, the focus on halal meat is a

00:47:18 --> 00:47:19

selective

00:47:21 --> 00:47:23

constrained set of ethical obligations.

00:47:24 --> 00:47:27

The recent broader concern for the way animals

00:47:27 --> 00:47:28

are treated in their life,

00:47:29 --> 00:47:30

how they are transported,

00:47:31 --> 00:47:33

whether the workers who take care for of

00:47:33 --> 00:47:35

those animals, and so a lot of the

00:47:35 --> 00:47:37

animals are being adequately paid,

00:47:38 --> 00:47:40

and given the rights their labor rights.

00:47:41 --> 00:47:42

All of these

00:47:43 --> 00:47:46

all of the increased interest in these issues

00:47:46 --> 00:47:47

is an appropriate

00:47:48 --> 00:47:48

recommitment

00:47:49 --> 00:47:50

to ethical responsibility.

00:47:52 --> 00:47:53

The least we can do is leverage our

00:47:53 --> 00:47:55

power as consumers

00:47:55 --> 00:47:58

to try to influence the supply chain.

00:48:00 --> 00:48:01

So the question

00:48:01 --> 00:48:03

is, what makes our food

00:48:04 --> 00:48:05

and other goods halal?

00:48:07 --> 00:48:09

And what would it mean

00:48:09 --> 00:48:11

to live on halal

00:48:11 --> 00:48:12

land?

00:48:15 --> 00:48:18

What about the resources that we use? What

00:48:18 --> 00:48:20

makes them halal?

00:48:23 --> 00:48:25

Certainly, goods that are taken from disappropriated

00:48:26 --> 00:48:28

land can possibly be lawful.

00:48:30 --> 00:48:31

1 of my students

00:48:32 --> 00:48:34

gave a presentation this week

00:48:34 --> 00:48:36

on Fatima

00:48:36 --> 00:48:36

alfefri

00:48:38 --> 00:48:41

alfefriya, who's the founder of El Perrine, which

00:48:41 --> 00:48:41

is the oldest

00:48:42 --> 00:48:42

continually

00:48:43 --> 00:48:44

operating

00:48:45 --> 00:48:46

university in the world.

00:48:55 --> 00:48:59

Of her family members died within a short

00:48:59 --> 00:49:00

period of time.

00:49:01 --> 00:49:03

She and her sister inherited this vast wealth.

00:49:07 --> 00:49:07

Fatima

00:49:08 --> 00:49:08

decided

00:49:09 --> 00:49:11

that with it, she wanted to establish

00:49:11 --> 00:49:13

a mosque in a university, and she did

00:49:13 --> 00:49:14

that in Fez.

00:49:15 --> 00:49:17

Some of you may have visited this,

00:49:18 --> 00:49:19

this beautiful,

00:49:19 --> 00:49:22

incredibly blessed place in Fez, Morocco.

00:49:23 --> 00:49:25

And one of the things that she insisted

00:49:25 --> 00:49:26

on is that any

00:49:27 --> 00:49:28

of

00:49:31 --> 00:49:32

the, any of the building materials

00:49:33 --> 00:49:36

used for this mosque university complex could only

00:49:36 --> 00:49:39

be taken from land that she owned.

00:49:39 --> 00:49:42

She didn't want one brick or one tile

00:49:42 --> 00:49:43

or one stone

00:49:43 --> 00:49:45

to be acquired unlawfully.

00:49:49 --> 00:49:51

The first thing she did before that was

00:49:51 --> 00:49:52

to dig a well,

00:49:53 --> 00:49:55

a well that all of the people here

00:49:55 --> 00:49:57

could benefit from.

00:49:58 --> 00:50:00

So we see this woman, this amazing woman,

00:50:00 --> 00:50:03

and I can't help but believe that it

00:50:03 --> 00:50:04

is because of her

00:50:05 --> 00:50:05

sincerity,

00:50:06 --> 00:50:09

because of her commitment to ethics, to to

00:50:09 --> 00:50:11

doing this project ethically,

00:50:12 --> 00:50:15

that God has blessed this institution with such

00:50:15 --> 00:50:15

longevity.

00:50:19 --> 00:50:20

This concern

00:50:21 --> 00:50:23

to make sure that what we do

00:50:23 --> 00:50:24

is rooted

00:50:25 --> 00:50:25

in

00:50:26 --> 00:50:27

lawful land,

00:50:27 --> 00:50:30

is rooted in a blessed work.

00:50:31 --> 00:50:33

She wanted to make sure her workers also

00:50:34 --> 00:50:35

had what they needed.

00:50:38 --> 00:50:41

This is something that is a consistent theme

00:50:41 --> 00:50:42

in

00:50:42 --> 00:50:46

much Islamic spiritual literature that is has been,

00:50:47 --> 00:50:48

I would say,

00:50:48 --> 00:50:49

marginalized

00:50:49 --> 00:50:50

and neglected

00:50:50 --> 00:50:52

in much of modern Islam.

00:50:53 --> 00:50:55

I believe part of it is because of

00:50:56 --> 00:50:59

a general air of hostility in many places

00:50:59 --> 00:51:00

towards

00:51:00 --> 00:51:02

classical Islamic spirituality

00:51:02 --> 00:51:03

or Sufism,

00:51:04 --> 00:51:06

both from a kind of modernist, rationalist

00:51:08 --> 00:51:10

approach, but also from the well,

00:51:11 --> 00:51:12

let's call them the right wing

00:51:13 --> 00:51:14

of our religious community,

00:51:16 --> 00:51:17

who have,

00:51:17 --> 00:51:20

oppressed and persecuted the Sufis.

00:51:20 --> 00:51:23

So this idea of this kind of caution

00:51:23 --> 00:51:25

and care for each aspect

00:51:26 --> 00:51:29

of doing something, that blessing only comes by

00:51:29 --> 00:51:29

paying attention

00:51:31 --> 00:51:33

to how we do every part

00:51:34 --> 00:51:34

of something.

00:51:35 --> 00:51:36

That land,

00:51:36 --> 00:51:38

water, people, all of them has been given

00:51:38 --> 00:51:40

attention for there to be a blessing.

00:51:47 --> 00:51:48

Gulf and elsewhere.

00:51:50 --> 00:51:51

Above the gulf and

00:51:52 --> 00:51:53

elsewhere,

00:51:54 --> 00:51:56

not to cast stones and blast houses.

00:51:56 --> 00:51:58

We live on this earth too in the

00:51:58 --> 00:51:59

way that we do.

00:52:02 --> 00:52:03

So what do we do?

00:52:04 --> 00:52:05

You know, it seems so

00:52:06 --> 00:52:06

overwhelming

00:52:07 --> 00:52:07

sometimes.

00:52:09 --> 00:52:12

How could we possibly pay attention to all

00:52:12 --> 00:52:12

of these things?

00:52:13 --> 00:52:15

And in conclusion, I would like to say

00:52:15 --> 00:52:16

that there are

00:52:17 --> 00:52:17

some simple

00:52:20 --> 00:52:21

concepts,

00:52:21 --> 00:52:24

ethical concepts that can help us.

00:52:25 --> 00:52:26

First of all,

00:52:27 --> 00:52:29

if we want to live a so called

00:52:29 --> 00:52:30

halal life,

00:52:31 --> 00:52:32

we

00:52:33 --> 00:52:35

could begin by lessening consumption.

00:52:36 --> 00:52:39

So that if we are mixing the unlawful

00:52:39 --> 00:52:40

with the lawful,

00:52:40 --> 00:52:42

at least it will be minimized.

00:52:43 --> 00:52:45

One of the rules in Islamic law is

00:52:45 --> 00:52:46

that,

00:52:46 --> 00:52:49

you know, if you have to, by necessity,

00:52:49 --> 00:52:52

take something that's unlawful, you can only take

00:52:52 --> 00:52:53

the absolute

00:52:53 --> 00:52:56

minimum that you need to sustain your life.

00:53:00 --> 00:53:01

Lessening consumption

00:53:02 --> 00:53:04

is a general rule that is given to

00:53:04 --> 00:53:06

us by God on the upper hand in

00:53:06 --> 00:53:06

any case,

00:53:07 --> 00:53:09

completely devoid of unethical

00:53:10 --> 00:53:13

context, it is a better spiritual practice overall.

00:53:15 --> 00:53:17

The part Anne says, O children of Adam,

00:53:18 --> 00:53:20

get dressed up to go to your place

00:53:20 --> 00:53:22

of prayer, and eat and drink, but not

00:53:22 --> 00:53:23

in excess.

00:53:24 --> 00:53:27

Surely God does not love those who are

00:53:27 --> 00:53:27

extravagant.

00:53:29 --> 00:53:31

This verse really makes me terrified,

00:53:32 --> 00:53:34

because it doesn't say God does not love

00:53:34 --> 00:53:35

extravagants.

00:53:35 --> 00:53:38

It says God does not love those who

00:53:38 --> 00:53:39

are extravagant.

00:53:39 --> 00:53:41

How terrifying to think god

00:53:42 --> 00:53:43

might

00:53:43 --> 00:53:44

withhold

00:53:45 --> 00:53:47

his love for that part of us,

00:53:47 --> 00:53:49

although I don't think his love would ever

00:53:49 --> 00:53:50

be completely absent.

00:53:53 --> 00:53:54

2nd,

00:53:54 --> 00:53:58

we cannot accomplish, we cannot possibly hope to

00:53:58 --> 00:54:00

live an ethical life

00:54:01 --> 00:54:03

by figuring all of this out ourselves.

00:54:05 --> 00:54:07

It's too much research, too much information.

00:54:07 --> 00:54:09

How could we possibly know?

00:54:10 --> 00:54:12

It is what

00:54:12 --> 00:54:15

Islamic Ethics and Law calls a collective obligation

00:54:17 --> 00:54:21

to establish and support government oversight and nonprofit

00:54:21 --> 00:54:22

organizations

00:54:22 --> 00:54:25

to monitor and regulate and report on these

00:54:25 --> 00:54:25

issues.

00:54:26 --> 00:54:27

And this is not

00:54:28 --> 00:54:28

a

00:54:29 --> 00:54:30

collective obligation

00:54:31 --> 00:54:33

that is religiously specific.

00:54:36 --> 00:54:39

If we possibly thought we could do this

00:54:39 --> 00:54:42

only in our own religious communities, we'd be

00:54:42 --> 00:54:44

fooling ourselves, we would be taking it seriously.

00:54:45 --> 00:54:47

We live in a global environment

00:54:47 --> 00:54:48

where these

00:54:49 --> 00:54:50

supply chains,

00:54:51 --> 00:54:52

where these contracts,

00:54:53 --> 00:54:54

where these deals

00:54:54 --> 00:54:57

are being made across the world in such

00:54:57 --> 00:54:58

complicated ways.

00:54:59 --> 00:55:00

We need to understand

00:55:01 --> 00:55:02

that

00:55:03 --> 00:55:05

it is only by working with people who

00:55:05 --> 00:55:08

care, people of good values, good ethics, and

00:55:08 --> 00:55:10

good faith that we can possibly hope

00:55:11 --> 00:55:11

to avoid

00:55:12 --> 00:55:13

constantly

00:55:14 --> 00:55:16

violating the rights of others

00:55:17 --> 00:55:18

for the sake of our

00:55:19 --> 00:55:19

own

00:55:20 --> 00:55:20

enjoyment,

00:55:21 --> 00:55:23

our own needs, and our desires.

00:55:24 --> 00:55:24

3rd,

00:55:25 --> 00:55:26

we have to understand

00:55:27 --> 00:55:27

that,

00:55:28 --> 00:55:29

of course,

00:55:30 --> 00:55:32

desires are not the same as needs.

00:55:34 --> 00:55:37

And, well, you may say, you know, we

00:55:37 --> 00:55:38

need to

00:55:39 --> 00:55:40

access

00:55:40 --> 00:55:44

that oil field, that gas field. We need

00:55:44 --> 00:55:45

these things.

00:55:46 --> 00:55:47

Needs are

00:55:48 --> 00:55:49

basic things.

00:55:49 --> 00:55:50

People need

00:55:51 --> 00:55:51

water, they

00:55:52 --> 00:55:53

need food, they

00:55:53 --> 00:55:54

need shelter.

00:55:55 --> 00:55:57

In the sun, there's a priority of needs.

00:55:58 --> 00:55:58

Darubiyend,

00:55:59 --> 00:55:59

Hejyend,

00:56:00 --> 00:56:01

and Tahesenend.

00:56:02 --> 00:56:03

The Darubiyend,

00:56:03 --> 00:56:04

the urgent needs,

00:56:05 --> 00:56:07

are are very basic.

00:56:08 --> 00:56:11

It is what you need to sustain life.

00:56:11 --> 00:56:14

The second level are necessities that we would

00:56:14 --> 00:56:15

consider

00:56:15 --> 00:56:17

are a part of human dignity and allow

00:56:17 --> 00:56:19

us to flourish as societies.

00:56:20 --> 00:56:21

So you can live without education,

00:56:22 --> 00:56:24

but you really can't advance very far with

00:56:24 --> 00:56:25

that.

00:56:26 --> 00:56:27

But the 3rd level,

00:56:28 --> 00:56:30

that are sometimes called complement

00:56:30 --> 00:56:32

complements or even luxuries,

00:56:33 --> 00:56:35

are things that you neither need

00:56:37 --> 00:56:38

nor are really necessary

00:56:38 --> 00:56:41

for society to advance, but all other things

00:56:41 --> 00:56:42

being equal,

00:56:43 --> 00:56:45

might make your life more pleasant.

00:56:46 --> 00:56:46

Unfortunately,

00:56:47 --> 00:56:49

many of us, and I would include myself,

00:56:50 --> 00:56:51

are will

00:56:52 --> 00:56:55

indulge in these this third level

00:56:57 --> 00:56:57

of,

00:56:58 --> 00:56:58

consumption

00:56:59 --> 00:57:01

without realizing

00:57:01 --> 00:57:03

that by doing so, we're impacting

00:57:03 --> 00:57:06

the ability of others to meet their urgent

00:57:07 --> 00:57:09

life sustaining needs.

00:57:11 --> 00:57:12

So it will take work.

00:57:13 --> 00:57:14

It takes

00:57:14 --> 00:57:15

cooperation.

00:57:16 --> 00:57:17

It takes

00:57:18 --> 00:57:19

fellowship.

00:57:20 --> 00:57:20

It takes

00:57:21 --> 00:57:23

turning away from trivial

00:57:23 --> 00:57:24

superficial

00:57:24 --> 00:57:25

issues.

00:57:26 --> 00:57:28

It turns away from it takes

00:57:28 --> 00:57:30

not being distracted

00:57:30 --> 00:57:32

by those who would love to have us

00:57:32 --> 00:57:32

distracted

00:57:33 --> 00:57:34

from these urgent issues

00:57:35 --> 00:57:36

by

00:57:36 --> 00:57:38

hurling insults at each other.

00:57:41 --> 00:57:43

This is the kind of place where those

00:57:43 --> 00:57:44

kind of ties and

00:57:45 --> 00:57:47

friendships and alliances can be formed.

00:57:48 --> 00:57:51

The reason why a place like Hartford Seminary

00:57:51 --> 00:57:52

is so important,

00:57:53 --> 00:57:55

Hartford Seminary among other,

00:57:55 --> 00:57:58

like minded and like spirited places. Because without

00:57:58 --> 00:57:59

it,

00:58:01 --> 00:58:03

although we may together

00:58:04 --> 00:58:05

find a

00:58:06 --> 00:58:08

way to live happily and as neighbors,

00:58:11 --> 00:58:13

we will also at the same time

00:58:13 --> 00:58:14

find ourselves

00:58:15 --> 00:58:15

on the side

00:58:16 --> 00:58:19

of those on the earth who are denying

00:58:19 --> 00:58:19

many others their

00:58:22 --> 00:58:23

their rights. So with that,

00:58:24 --> 00:58:25

I'd like to conclude

00:58:25 --> 00:58:27

and, invite your

00:58:31 --> 00:58:31

comments.

00:59:24 --> 00:59:25

Well, this I would say that

00:59:34 --> 00:59:36

people who have become aware of of

00:59:36 --> 00:59:37

these issues

00:59:38 --> 00:59:40

for both ethical and health reasons.

00:59:41 --> 00:59:42

So that it is,

00:59:43 --> 00:59:45

possible now to find organizations

00:59:46 --> 00:59:46

that

00:59:47 --> 00:59:47

will

00:59:48 --> 00:59:50

research where food comes from,

00:59:50 --> 00:59:53

what the land practices, what the labor practices

00:59:53 --> 00:59:55

of those place places are.

00:59:56 --> 00:59:58

There's the movement towards local consumption, you know,

00:59:58 --> 00:59:59

consumption of local

00:59:59 --> 01:00:02

consumption, you know, consumption of local product,

01:00:02 --> 01:00:03

produce.

01:00:03 --> 01:00:06

And that mostly started as a as a

01:00:06 --> 01:00:08

health concern, but, of course, has major impact

01:00:09 --> 01:00:11

on the environment as well.

01:00:11 --> 01:00:12

So it's an example

01:00:13 --> 01:00:14

of something that,

01:00:15 --> 01:00:16

you know, an area of our life

01:00:17 --> 01:00:17

where,

01:00:18 --> 01:00:19

we,

01:00:20 --> 01:00:23

have more support and more resources readily available

01:00:23 --> 01:00:25

especially to the ordinary consumer

01:00:26 --> 01:00:27

than in some of these other areas.

01:00:29 --> 01:00:31

And again, some people will say, well, that's

01:00:31 --> 01:00:33

fine for wealthy people. What about, you know,

01:00:33 --> 01:00:36

aren't these things expensive? Isn't it expensive to

01:00:36 --> 01:00:38

care about these things? And this is where

01:00:38 --> 01:00:39

I think,

01:00:40 --> 01:00:40

1,

01:00:41 --> 01:00:43

the the issue of how much we really

01:00:43 --> 01:00:44

need to eat

01:00:45 --> 01:00:46

is one issue,

01:00:46 --> 01:00:47

you know.

01:00:48 --> 01:00:49

And second,

01:00:50 --> 01:00:52

what kind of policies are in place to

01:00:52 --> 01:00:55

make some kinds of food more expensive than

01:00:55 --> 01:00:56

others?

01:00:56 --> 01:00:57

Because this isn't simply,

01:00:59 --> 01:01:01

you know, we talk about

01:01:01 --> 01:01:03

a free market, but when it comes to

01:01:03 --> 01:01:05

these things, this is not free. There are

01:01:05 --> 01:01:07

there are there are a lot of inter

01:01:07 --> 01:01:08

there are many interventions,

01:01:10 --> 01:01:11

by

01:01:12 --> 01:01:14

government and powerful agencies

01:01:15 --> 01:01:15

that,

01:01:16 --> 01:01:16

determine

01:01:17 --> 01:01:19

that certain kinds of foods will be,

01:01:20 --> 01:01:23

will be cheaper and more readily available than

01:01:23 --> 01:01:23

others.

01:01:28 --> 01:01:28

Yes.

01:01:29 --> 01:01:31

I was Yes. I was interested in your

01:01:31 --> 01:01:33

comment or your you used the expression the

01:01:33 --> 01:01:34

rights of nature.

01:01:35 --> 01:01:35

The rights

01:01:36 --> 01:01:37

and

01:01:38 --> 01:01:40

I've come to know that

01:01:41 --> 01:01:41

because

01:01:42 --> 01:01:44

of delegate from Bolivia

01:01:44 --> 01:01:46

who was an indigenous person,

01:02:29 --> 01:02:31

And of course, when,

01:02:32 --> 01:02:33

as you say,

01:02:34 --> 01:02:37

this this concept or at least this articulation

01:02:38 --> 01:02:39

of this concept,

01:02:40 --> 01:02:43

has come primarily from indigenous people in South

01:02:43 --> 01:02:44

America.

01:02:44 --> 01:02:47

And it's one of the reasons why in

01:02:47 --> 01:02:48

some of the, constitutions,

01:02:49 --> 01:02:51

actually, of these countries, there's a recognition

01:02:51 --> 01:02:53

not only of the right of people

01:02:54 --> 01:02:56

to have access to

01:02:56 --> 01:02:59

a wholesome ecology or or, you know,

01:03:00 --> 01:03:01

pure and healthy ecology,

01:03:01 --> 01:03:04

but also rights of nature itself.

01:03:05 --> 01:03:06

Now, of course,

01:03:06 --> 01:03:09

with introducing that, many of us have, you

01:03:09 --> 01:03:10

know, searched our own

01:03:11 --> 01:03:13

history, our own text, and we see,

01:03:13 --> 01:03:15

we see support for that

01:03:16 --> 01:03:17

idea.

01:03:18 --> 01:03:20

So I see great support for that idea,

01:03:20 --> 01:03:22

not only in the Islamic teachings, but also

01:03:22 --> 01:03:24

in practice over the centuries where,

01:03:26 --> 01:03:26

there were,

01:03:27 --> 01:03:29

there were were all these

01:03:29 --> 01:03:29

reserves

01:03:30 --> 01:03:30

for,

01:03:31 --> 01:03:32

for wildlife

01:03:32 --> 01:03:34

that were considered their right, that they had

01:03:34 --> 01:03:36

a right to certain space.

01:03:37 --> 01:03:38

But the question is,

01:03:38 --> 01:03:40

why have we been have been paying

01:03:43 --> 01:03:45

and it's and it shows us why we

01:03:45 --> 01:03:47

need to really be open and listen

01:03:48 --> 01:03:50

to what other people are saying because

01:03:51 --> 01:03:53

if indigenous people of South America hadn't really

01:03:53 --> 01:03:54

brought this to our consciousness,

01:03:55 --> 01:03:57

we might have continued to be negligent

01:03:58 --> 01:04:00

of this very important ethical obligation that we

01:04:00 --> 01:04:01

have.

01:04:01 --> 01:04:03

And so they've done us a favor

01:04:04 --> 01:04:06

by making us aware so that we can

01:04:06 --> 01:04:07

be more compliant

01:04:08 --> 01:04:09

with our own obligations,

01:04:10 --> 01:04:10

in fact.

01:04:53 --> 01:04:55

Well, if if there's one thing that

01:04:57 --> 01:05:00

that capitalism is about, it's about our,

01:05:01 --> 01:05:03

our right to spend our money where we

01:05:03 --> 01:05:04

like. And,

01:05:06 --> 01:05:09

certainly, we have an obligation. I believe I

01:05:09 --> 01:05:10

have an obligation

01:05:10 --> 01:05:11

to

01:05:12 --> 01:05:13

acquire wealth lawfully.

01:05:14 --> 01:05:16

And that if the wealth,

01:05:16 --> 01:05:18

you know, not to I can't

01:05:20 --> 01:05:22

I can no more,

01:05:22 --> 01:05:24

put my money in a casino

01:05:25 --> 01:05:27

or a bar or a liquor store as

01:05:27 --> 01:05:28

a wholesome

01:05:28 --> 01:05:30

than actually feel that I could put my

01:05:30 --> 01:05:33

money in a in a system where there

01:05:33 --> 01:05:34

is,

01:05:35 --> 01:05:37

where the bay the foundation of it is

01:05:37 --> 01:05:37

unlawful.

01:05:39 --> 01:05:40

From what I understand, the Presbyterian

01:05:41 --> 01:05:43

move, it's not a divestment from Israel, but

01:05:43 --> 01:05:43

from,

01:05:44 --> 01:05:46

operations in the West Bank

01:05:46 --> 01:05:48

on on unlawful land.

01:05:49 --> 01:05:52

It makes sense to me in that in

01:05:52 --> 01:05:53

that context.

01:05:53 --> 01:05:56

It accords with what I believe about unlawful

01:05:57 --> 01:05:57

land and

01:05:58 --> 01:06:00

that people should restrain,

01:06:01 --> 01:06:02

should refrain from,

01:06:04 --> 01:06:06

benefiting from unlawfully acquired

01:06:07 --> 01:06:09

land. I'm not an expert in what's happening

01:06:09 --> 01:06:10

there, so,

01:06:10 --> 01:06:11

you know,

01:06:12 --> 01:06:14

I I can't give really more analysis of

01:06:14 --> 01:06:15

that specific situation,

01:06:17 --> 01:06:17

than that.

01:06:18 --> 01:06:20

But it there you know, there's something there's

01:06:20 --> 01:06:21

another,

01:06:30 --> 01:06:33

principles, and that is the issue of reparations

01:06:34 --> 01:06:34

for,

01:06:35 --> 01:06:36

slavery and for the,

01:06:39 --> 01:06:40

for the, seizing

01:06:41 --> 01:06:41

of

01:06:42 --> 01:06:44

land and property of African Americans during the

01:06:44 --> 01:06:45

Jim Crow

01:06:45 --> 01:06:46

era.

01:06:46 --> 01:06:48

So there was this month's issue of The

01:06:58 --> 01:07:00

And it's the cover story of The Atlantic

01:07:01 --> 01:07:02

where he explains

01:07:02 --> 01:07:03

this,

01:07:03 --> 01:07:05

why reparations

01:07:05 --> 01:07:06

are required.

01:07:07 --> 01:07:09

There are places in the United States,

01:07:10 --> 01:07:11

universities,

01:07:12 --> 01:07:13

country clubs,

01:07:13 --> 01:07:14

homes

01:07:15 --> 01:07:17

that are on land that was

01:07:18 --> 01:07:19

either built by slaves

01:07:20 --> 01:07:21

or

01:07:21 --> 01:07:23

after emancipation

01:07:23 --> 01:07:26

was seized from free African Americans

01:07:27 --> 01:07:29

by unlawful means.

01:07:29 --> 01:07:31

So the question is,

01:07:33 --> 01:07:36

you know, what's the ethical response to that?

01:07:36 --> 01:07:39

I think about about this idea and,

01:07:40 --> 01:07:41

to me from

01:07:50 --> 01:07:52

not only do you need to restore

01:07:53 --> 01:07:53

their

01:07:54 --> 01:07:56

their right, but you need to,

01:07:57 --> 01:07:58

you need to pay expiation.

01:07:59 --> 01:08:01

You need the extra. So that kind of

01:08:01 --> 01:08:02

restoration,

01:08:02 --> 01:08:03

I think, is critical.

01:08:04 --> 01:08:05

And,

01:08:05 --> 01:08:07

you know, I really do think that we

01:08:07 --> 01:08:08

need to

01:08:08 --> 01:08:11

make sure that we are not that they're

01:08:11 --> 01:08:14

mutually exclusive, but that we really take care

01:08:14 --> 01:08:14

of our,

01:08:15 --> 01:08:16

at our obligations,

01:08:16 --> 01:08:18

our moral obligations

01:08:18 --> 01:08:19

with respect

01:08:20 --> 01:08:22

to the land where we live as well.

01:08:22 --> 01:08:23

That's why I'm particularly

01:08:24 --> 01:08:24

passionate

01:08:25 --> 01:08:25

as a Canadian

01:08:26 --> 01:08:26

about

01:08:27 --> 01:08:30

what's happening now with, the restoration of land

01:08:30 --> 01:08:31

and treaty rights

01:08:32 --> 01:08:33

of First Nations.

01:09:31 --> 01:09:33

That the law of corporations

01:09:33 --> 01:09:35

is structured so that corporations,

01:09:36 --> 01:09:41

public companies problem in the law that continues

01:09:41 --> 01:09:46

to create that. To the extent that problem

01:09:46 --> 01:09:49

in the law that continues to create that.

01:09:49 --> 01:09:51

To the extent of such absurdities

01:09:52 --> 01:09:54

as I saw an article recently

01:09:57 --> 01:09:57

that

01:09:58 --> 01:09:59

the the

01:09:59 --> 01:10:01

lack of US military

01:10:01 --> 01:10:02

engagement

01:10:02 --> 01:10:04

currently is hurting the economy

01:10:05 --> 01:10:05

because,

01:10:06 --> 01:10:08

there's not as much because the military sector

01:10:08 --> 01:10:09

is so important.

01:10:11 --> 01:10:12

And without that, without

01:10:13 --> 01:10:14

without an active

01:10:15 --> 01:10:17

war, I mean, I don't know what kind

01:10:17 --> 01:10:17

of

01:10:24 --> 01:10:24

that,

01:10:25 --> 01:10:27

there's not enough of a demand

01:10:27 --> 01:10:30

for all this military equipment and that that

01:10:30 --> 01:10:30

is

01:10:31 --> 01:10:31

impacting

01:10:32 --> 01:10:34

the growth of the US economy.

01:10:34 --> 01:10:36

So that to even be

01:10:37 --> 01:10:39

to even think that it's reasonable

01:10:40 --> 01:10:42

to make a statement like that,

01:10:44 --> 01:10:46

is just shows the uncertainty of the growth

01:10:46 --> 01:10:47

model.

01:10:47 --> 01:10:49

That we could even contemplate that this is

01:10:49 --> 01:10:52

a bad that peace is a bad thing

01:10:52 --> 01:10:54

because it's bad for growth.

01:10:54 --> 01:10:55

Wow.

01:10:56 --> 01:10:56

So

01:10:57 --> 01:10:57

definitely,

01:10:58 --> 01:10:59

the issue of,

01:11:00 --> 01:11:01

the law of corporations,

01:11:03 --> 01:11:04

what obligations are to stockholders,

01:11:05 --> 01:11:07

all of these things are part of our

01:11:07 --> 01:11:08

piece of the puzzle.

01:13:12 --> 01:13:13

Have,

01:13:13 --> 01:13:14

established methodologies,

01:13:15 --> 01:13:16

ways, research.

01:13:17 --> 01:13:19

We will be overwhelmed if each one of

01:13:19 --> 01:13:20

our congregations

01:13:21 --> 01:13:22

or denominations or communities

01:13:23 --> 01:13:25

feels we need to address all of these

01:13:25 --> 01:13:26

things individually.

01:13:26 --> 01:13:28

You know, you're gonna have the same person

01:13:28 --> 01:13:30

on 6 committees and, you know, eventually

01:13:31 --> 01:13:32

so

01:13:32 --> 01:13:34

so this is I mean, it really

01:13:35 --> 01:13:37

is a place for interface

01:13:37 --> 01:13:38

cooperation

01:13:38 --> 01:13:41

and work. So that we have we have

01:13:41 --> 01:13:43

more of these that we're doing together and

01:13:43 --> 01:13:44

not just by ourselves.

01:13:45 --> 01:13:47

It it'll it'll it helps,

01:13:47 --> 01:13:50

you know, it's an argument to the world

01:13:50 --> 01:13:50

for

01:13:51 --> 01:13:53

religions doing something positive. Right? Not just,

01:13:54 --> 01:13:55

well, you

01:14:04 --> 01:14:06

The limit, you know, and then the limited

01:14:06 --> 01:14:08

resources and time that we have, I mean,

01:14:08 --> 01:14:10

it just does not make sense

01:14:11 --> 01:14:13

each of us to have our own individual

01:14:13 --> 01:14:16

things in this area. We we really need

01:14:16 --> 01:14:18

to cooperate if we're gonna hold by having

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