Imtiaz Sooliman – SA photojournalist escapes from Syrian captors
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Shiraz Muhammad, the South African photojournalist who was kidnapped
in Syria in 2017
has escaped from captivity. According to gift of the givers,
which is a locally run international age group, Muhammad
should be home soon. The photojournalist had gone to Syria
in 2017
to document the difficulties of people in the country when he was
kidnapped, according to media reports, Mohammed made contact
with his family after escaping from his captors at the weekend.
Joining us now on the phone, we have Dr India Suleiman, who is the
founder of gift of the givers, good to have you. Dr Suleiman,
thank you, as always, for your time. Thank you, Leanne, and
greetings to Sakina. So Dr Suleiman, we're talking about, and
we're reporting that
that he is actually, at this point in time, at the embassy. I think
it's a Turkish Embassy, if I'm not correct, where do you believe that
that he is right now? We don't have the details at the end, but
he is in the hands of Turkish intelligence. That was over the
weekend. You know that the people who called us to say that they
sent us pictures of proof that they had him with them, and
pictures of proof they were sending him across the border into
Turkey, at that point, told us that he was in Turkish
intelligence. But that was now Saturday, Sunday, Monday. It is
possible at some point that should have contacted the Turkish
Government or the other way around, and the noble procedure.
Then if they would hand chiraz over to the South African Embassy
in Turkey, and then the next phase would be for the MC to prepare a
document for travel. He probably doesn't have his passport with
him, and his visa is already expired, because it's only a one
month visa. So a new document has to be made, flight has to be
booked, and he should come home. You know, very, very soon. There's
no reason to keep in the debate for several days or weeks. You
know, he should come home, which is a normal process. So once the
governor said, we have them. They hand over foreign nationals very
quickly. We obviously are from the story that we are hearing is that
he escaped from his captors, not that he was freed, but he actually
escaped. Do you have any more details on this? On Saturday
afternoon, we got a call from people we don't know in Syria, and
they said, We have Shiraz Muhammad. So we asked, How do you
have him? And who are you? They said, Look, we are just some
people in Syria. Shiraz Ismail didn't speak to me. He spoke to my
other people speak out of it, and said, Look, Shiraz has escaped
from captivity. He got out of where he was. He walked through
all the side streets, used the back roads, didn't use the main
road. Eventually landed in an area I can't give you the name, and we
met him. We were very aware of his capture, and that's because
Srinagar, the US, and made huge publicity around Shiraz was
captured inside Syria and outside since January 10, 2017 and he
said, We know that you guys are involved. So we said, Yes, we were
involved, but not anymore. But I said, in any case, even though
we're not involved, do you mind sending a picture to make sure to
see Shiraz and not someone else? Because you guys have so many
hostages inside Syria, and also that we need to pass a picture
onto his family that is so disrupt for so many years, almost three
years now, they said, no problem. And within a second, they send the
picture. And of course, it was Shiraz, and we said, as soon as we
not involved, they will get back to us or let us know. That same
evening, around 11pm they send us another picture. This time the
picture was much darker, and they said, look, the picture is dark,
but it was taken just before we moved him across the border to
Turkish intelligence. It is for his own safety. And obviously,
Shiraz, as any hostage, will not want to be in any country once
they've escaped, because the anxiety, the fear of being
recaptured, is huge, and the faster you move out of the
country, it's better. And they did the right thing, and they moved
him across to Turkish but in their own words, he escaped the details
only she asked him tell us, yeah, indeed, and that's, that's the
reality, the truth of what actually unfolded will only hear
once and when he is ready to speak as well. You mentioned that, and
we're fully aware of it, that you, as the gift of the givers, weren't
actually dealing with this particular kidnapping anymore.
What happened? Why did you stop dealing with it? Why did the
family feel that they would rather have derco handle the situation?
No, it wasn't derco. It wasn't derco. Don't deal with our
situations. Remember, governments don't speak to other groups. So it
was an independent another person from Turkey, a person that used to
be a volunteer. What else that we removed from our service as a
volunteer? And they decided to go with that person, probably
thinking that since the person is in Turkey and has been inside
Syria, has probably more context and more networks inside Syria.
That's a service. We talkative. We tell every family, you're free to
choose anyone you want at the end of the day, we have only one
desire to see a hostage come back home, because we know that turmoil
and then at the torment it causes to the family and to the hostage
itself. And we went on to say that if you use more than one
negotiator, and this is beside the family, while you were talking to
the captors, well, through the intermediary, they said, look, but
we're talking to this group and that group, and that's the group.
So we told them clearly, if you're talking.
To more than one group. Please don't call us. We're not
interested in talking to you, because what they do is they play
the one group against the other, which makes the cost of the other
ransom much higher, not in this case, in other state, but it makes
the cost of the ransom much higher, and it makes it very
difficult for hostage itself if they have bad experiences from the
people they're talking to. So in that reason, we said we don't want
to talk to more than if you're talking to more than one group,
and we call the family's interest, that you only use one person if
you decide to go to the person in Turkey. So we, and that's when we
would go on 226, 2019 Okay, and that's, that's fair enough. I
mean, for the reasoning behind that, you know, a lot of people
reading into this kidnapping and sort of making so many assertions
about those saying that, you know, I'm not even going to read some of
the assumptions and allegations against what was going on and
that, that, you know, he was warned not to go to Syria at that
time because it was dangerous that, in fact, the day before he
was kidnapped, he'd already contacted his ex wife to say,
look, it looks like things are going to go wrong. I will let you
know. And then they were just question marks the entire time.
Did you did you think that there was anything suspicious about this
particular case at any time during your involvement, not necessarily
now, but during your involvement with this case? The problem is
that I don't know Shiraz was going to Sylvia. Actually, I don't know
Shiraz.
No, I don't know Shara used to be honest with you, you know. And I
just got news that he was there, and I was wondering, How did
Sharad get the anointed to go as a rule, you know? And people said in
the beginning, it was a gift of the mission. There was no gift of
the givers mission. The mission is over. You know, a few years
previous to that, when gift of the givers go, we don't allow any
journalists or anybody to cross the country into our country.
That's a war zone, or that's a danger zone, except you've taken
all the precautions, and we have a big group, and we make all
arrangements for Shiraz. I just said he was there, you know, and
he went to take pictures and photographs. And, well, he had
good intentions. Yeah. I mean, he has good intentions to tell the
suffering of people, but I would have never allowed him to go if
you know, the scientific general passed on two years ago, yes, also
wanted to go on the old and I stopped there. I said, there's no
way you're going to enter that country. You know, my teams will
never allow you to win surgery. It's too dangerous for you. And
even though it looks quite but at that point, strangely, Liang in in
January 2017
the guns had silenced quite a bit, substantially in the area that we
are our hospital. Is nobody expected a genetics to take place.
That's the thing that got everybody else. And that's, and
that's, that's, that's the reality. I suppose you've got to
take huge precautions when you're going into these areas, no matter,
no matter how protected you think you are. I mean, that you're South
African, you're going in as media, that you're trying to tell a
story, but you never know what can happen. This is, this is the, the
exact story that could possibly unfold. I know also that there
were recent media reports quoted his family as saying that a video
that showed he was tortured was fake. Do you know anything about
that? No. Have no idea that we was never known to be seen himself. We
would not know that, yeah, but, I mean, the reality is, I don't
think it's important, because he had, the people we spoke to say he
had couple of bruises and, of course, we can as much
information, and I'm not giving it, unfortunately, but there are
other people very fine with this, on Saturday that they had, he had
a few bruisers, nothing more than that. But the picture showed he
has lost a lot of weight. You know, that's understandable in
that situation. No, when you are so emotionally depressed and you
don't know what's going to happen next, it's you know you're going
to lose weight. The other 20 point you're talking about journalists.
In the old days,
the pattern of capturing people has changed tremendously, or
substantially. In the old days it was a political ideology. They
would capture an ambassador or somebody from a government, or a
national from a government they didn't like. You know, would you
regard it as a hostile government? Now, with a change in mentality of
groups and different kinds of groups, there's no religious
intent. There's no political intent. There's only one intent.
Economics, it's about business, it's about so they capture whoever
they want from everything. One note is an international so
whoever goes to whatever can be very, very careful you don't look
at me, at the wrong place, at the wrong time.
Just in terms of a bigger picture, South Africans that are being held
captive abroad. And this is one of those stories that certainly we
are hoping for a happy ending. To your knowledge, how many South
Africans are being held abroad as as hostages? Do you? Do you have
those numbers? Not, not, not necessarily hostages? There's 40.
There's a minimum of 40, right? There's one, no man a lady. You
know, it's a long story, but it's a criminal issue. There's three,
four people held in UAE under the pretext that they did. Some did
not be in existence. Accounts which I'm not sure the whole story
and news reinvestigated. There's a lady trapped to our children from
it's a domestic issue in Sudan. Then, of course, we haven't got
feedback on two young boys we were missing in Vietnam. You know,
Mushrik Daniel said.
And your grandma. There's four South Africans, a woman and two or
three children thought to be missing. In Iraq, there's a lady
and a six children, and some of them as young as two years old and
then adult in missing in Damascus, there's another 15 or 16 South
Africans trapped in a camp called alcohol inside Syria, which Dec
was working on that case right now. So inside Syria and Iraq,
there's 29 missing or dead. You know not. They're not sure about
the whereabouts or and also, not only missing, but we know where
they are. So those that we know those are dead, and this is
missing Saba, 29 and then these other people get other parts of
the world. Then in West Africa, in Maori, there's a South African
called Health Fund. Different called was taken in Libya. He was
moved to Mali. He's in the hands of the captains. They just sent us
last week a video, but that video was all October 18, October 2018
we can't use the stock is outdated. And then they send us a
letter in they said we arrived, and she's very excited. She's
writing. And he said he needs diabetic medication. And they kept
to send us a message to say that self is sick, you know. And they
just use the word sick, you don't explain. So he's there. And then,
of course, the body. And I know the family finds it hard to
accept, but in our mind, Crystal Bosma has passed on in Mali also,
he was also taken hostage. And the fact, and when the captain told
us, when we say the person is dead in their own words, like that you
did. And what makes it more plausible is the fact they haven't
asked any more answers for him. They're not negotiating for
Crystal. They're only negotiating for health. So these are the
circuits which I'm aware of in different parts of the world. And
that's, I mean, that is a that's a long list, and especially, you
know, where our Department of International Relations, as you
mentioned earlier on in the interview, in the interview, is
basically they do not get involved in these kind of situations, and a
lot of people asking questions. But why? Why don't they just get
involved and try and sort this out? And you know, I think the
short answer to perhaps a much more intense one, is that we will
set a precedent, and more South Africans will be kidnapped. If
that is the case, it's an easy way to get money. Am I simplifying it
too much?
Well, it's a yes and a no. You know, people don't get kidnapped
either way. There's other people who get, you know, you say you
don't pay ransom, and so you reduce the chance of kidnapping.
There's too many new groups emerging, and they're going to
take a chance either way. And the reality is, as much as government
said, they don't pay. They do pay, you know, they do pay huge amounts
of money, 10 million, for half million, 30 million. The only way
to prevent this is to not go to those countries. Yeah, don't go to
those countries. That court has have a history of bad practice,
you know, before, and also never travel alone. Make sure you inform
the embassy, make sure you have a group, make sure you have proper
tour arrangement. Most people get caught when they alone. And you
know, in in areas, in countries that are volatiles that have this
kind of history, nothing is not going to happen to you. I mean, I
had a scientific a few weeks ago. The lady came back. She went
again. I said, my friends, please make sure to all of the
precautions you gotta take and where you gotta be, because, you
know, we gotta monitor your minds of traveling there. Just too
dangerous, and it's crazy people all over the world. So it world,
so better forget the adventure. There's no inventory being taken
hospital, believe me, it's a rough road, so other girls will come to
us without far safer and don't have this kind of issues. Do you
still do work in in Syria? Dr Suleiman, do you? Are you involved
there at all? We're not the biggest hospital in the entire
country. In the north Syria, we've got that hospital. They expanded
to six different buildings. We could see 10,000 patients a month.
That's why these people knew them collapse, because of our profile
in South Syria. Everybody knows us. You know inside Syria, and all
agencies that come from outside come and drop off stuff at the
hospital. We've got a dialysis unit, we've got CT scans. We've
got a cardiac catheterization unit. We've got physiotherapy,
dentistry, blood bank. We just expanding all the time. And in
Christ areas of crisis, we send our our trauma teams and hospitals
have been bombed already mass injury. We have six ambulances, we
have a feeding center, we have a warehouse. So our our profile in
Syria is huge. That's why everybody knows them. Speak to us.
We don't know they are. They all know we are.
Doctor. So just, just to clarify this, because you know there's so
many articles dating back to 2017
and I know you've spoken to it more, but, but perhaps we can
just, again, clarify this issue,
the story of Shiraz Muhammad. He never went with you the gift of
the givers. He went on his own. Because the reports are still
doing the rounds, saying, even reports now talking to his
release, talk to the fact that he came with gift of the givers to
Syria in 2017
so you're saying he never, ever went with you. No, we had no team
going at that time, you know, and we had our there was no team
going. When we go, we go as a team. We don't go as one person.
And Dong was a journalist, it was a legal team. So he was not part
of a gift of the givers team. Yes, his entry was facilitated by a guy
that volunteers, and he went to the gift of the Gibbs hospital
because it's a South African landmark, and through the
hospital.
Wanted to follow the camps that South Africa was running, and he
was very visible during that for three to four days before he got
captured. So he's not part of a team. I have never seen him alone.
And as I said, I never spoke to him. I don't even know Shirazi. I
only came to know his existence when he was on the other side.
Yeah, all right. Well, I mean, it's good to get your version of
events, because those versions of events are still being reported in
media as as recently as as as 12 hours ago, people still saying
that he went as part of a group to the gift to Syria with the gift of
the givers. But you're disputing that you don't even know him
before I let you go. Obviously the story is something developing, and
we're hoping that he will be brought back to South Africa very
soon. The water situation, if I may, move our attention back home.
We actually saw your team, the gift of the givers, working out in
the Eastern Cape, working on boreholes, trying to alleviate the
problem there. Can you give us an update of of some of the work
that's being done in the Eastern Cape, and how are things going to
put
it nicely, you know, over the last few days, water shut down. In many
of the towns, there's just no water. And in some of the towns,
like in California, Adelaide and Bedford, the only water that's
coming is coming from our bowls. We are officially shut on 13
December. But I had to send teams in which, of course, they own,
they volunteer. I couldn't foster holiday. Our teams volunteers to
go and stay in those places, in kalashnik, in Adelaide and in
Makanda, to be of service to the people. So thank you to companies
like Isuzu and you know, and abeko and other companies that have
given us water tankers and help in terms of vehicles, we are busy,
you know, sending water. What we do is from the balls that we have
functional, we pump water into water tankers. The water tankers
then go to Georgia tanks. We've established almost 200 Georgia
tanks all over those areas in Eastern Cape, and then people take
water, either from the tanker or from the Georgia tanks. Over the
weekend, even as long weekend we were connecting, the pumps came
for more boreholes in Adelaide and in Bedford and hospitals, hospital
in middle, sorry, in
other the Williamstown Hospital in Middlebury, we will soon have
eight or nine fully functional balls, which increases the amount
of balls people could go to to get water. But as much more work in
peace to be done by the word Queenstown. Bolo Carla, there's so
many places I don't even know the names. There's so many people
calling we've got a long way to go. And, you know, Time's running
out. And in a holiday, hundreds of 1000s of people from the Eastern
Cape did what is Gauteng and Western Cape and other parts of
the country are going back home to where there's no water, yeah. And
I mean, as you say, this is, this is a lot of tourists go down
there. People go home for holidays. So the situation only
worsens. But you know, in terms of government interventions, and, I
mean, we could look back years that there could have been plans
put in place to try and avoid this, but that's, you know, that's
a different story altogether. Unfortunately, we are here, and
something urgently needs to be done. I mean, we've seen it, we've
covered it, we've witnessed it, and it is one of the most
disastrous situations I have personally ever seen when we were
with your team at Craft Vernet. You know, the digging of the
boreholes reports that some of the boreholes that have been dug by
government don't even work. There is no water, the money that's been
wasted. There's just so many stories that are doing the rounds.
But just to give a solution from your side, what do they
immediately need to do as government to help the people in
this area? The
government should have regarded a drought as a war situation. That's
what they should have done. They should have put a war room
together, get together and said, What's the crisis facing the
country right now? Because they talk about economics and mood, is
downright creating jobs. But the area that could save all that is
agriculture. Agriculture is the mainstay of, you know, labor
intensive jobs, saving the sheep export market, avocados, citrus
fruit, all the other export fruits are all totally destroyed and the
amount of animals that have died, All it required was to get
credible hydrologists to put on where the right walls are. Drill,
forget tender process. Get people who don't charge an exorbitant
rate save that money, get the water, provide hundreds and
hundreds of trucks of water to save the farms. Because it's
normal. It's not even being racialized everything. Oh, it's
white farmers, so that it's politically incorrect to help
them. It is a point where all the non white people working for the
white farmers are without a job now. So it means hundreds of 1000s
of jobless have entered unemployment statistics. Instead
of creating jobs, we are unfocused on jobs that we can say we are
losing jobs. And the point is so severe that farmers themselves
were all mega Hectors of the land are now standing in queues to
collect food parcels from us. So if they had put in further
boreholes. A quick example, one of the municipalities was was very
proud. They drilled 25 balls, and they spent 100 million. It means 4
million in a ball, which only cost more than 350,000 each. And they
were very proud of it. It's how much money got wasted. We.
Put the money we use other municipalities are spending money
on parties and, you know, expensive cars, they can't pay for
repairs. They can't pay for tankers for water, all in this
thing cake. It's a storage of political interference and
Polycom, I like to say I like it as a plant. We need to get our act
together and do what is right in the interest of the people. And if
you call the right person and give it a photo, you would have saved
so many animals and saved so many jobs and brought water to the
people. It's amazing that decent cape is not in greenviet. People
have been so patient. The people can't go to hospitals. Hospitals
have shut down coming times. Clinics have shut down. Schools
have closed all these sectors simply because we can do a war
zone approach and putting the right balls in the right place.
Every town we went to where people drove 1000s of meters and found no
water, I think the contract says drill for balls. It doesn't say,
find water. And that's a catch, that you can build 1000, 1000s of
meters, but if you don't find water, it signs the contract
doesn't say that this is drill balls. And in our case, every time
we went 600% finding water and giving to the people, we've
drilled 325
balls in one year between Northern Cape and Eastern Cape, and we can
help solve the issue in we know 22 sites in batter. But if we drill
to get quality water, we know the sites in Queens, five sites bola,
we know other sites in all its areas. It requires a question of
funding. But to be fair, the Minister of Water and Senate, and
sanitation, the new versus law is behind us all the way. The better
she is having is
because the government is so caught up in its own rules, it's
finding it hard to get out of its own rules. And the finance doesn't
become available immediately. They've kept in their own in their
own systems, and it can't make a fast decision to fast track the
process. And you know, she's better with Treasury, and they've
committed to assist get the balls done. And we can do it. We know we
have a plan enough it is required that funding capacity to come on
Treasury. All right. Dr, NJ, Suleiman, I have to leave it
there, but I know that we've had a lot spoken here on the program,
and we thank you for your time. It's already gone eight o'clock
here on the program three minutes past eight, to be exact. But that
talking to us on the line was Doctor Imtiaz Suleiman, firstly,
about Shiraz Mohammed, the South African photojournalist who was
kidnapped in Syria in 2017 and has now escaped. We're waiting for his
arrival back in South Africa. That story is still getting lots of
attention, and of course, the draft situation in the Eastern
Cape. But.