Imtiaz Sooliman – reacts to the release of Steven Mcgowan

Steve, let's go back to our breaking story, a South African

tourist, Steven McGowan, who was kidnapped in 2011 by al Qaeda

while traveling in Mali, is has been released and is back home.

McGowan was one of four foreigners touring Mali on motorbikes who

were seized in a restaurant in the town of Timbuktu. For more on

this. We're joined in studio by the founder and director of gift

of the givers, who was at the forefront of those negotiations,

Dr MTS suraman, good afternoon, doctor. And thank you so much for

joining us on The sabc news desk. Good afternoon. Thank you, Kashi.

Let's get right into it all the hard work by the Department of

International Relations, gift of the givers and other NGOs really

coming to a head today. How do you feel right now? I feel extremely

happy, especially for Steven, for Malcolm and for Catherine, I've

met with Malcolm, and Malcolm is the father and Catherine the wife.

Over the last two years, very often I could see the pain, the

anguish, the anxiety, the suffering and the hardship they've

been through and recently, with the loss of Beverly McGowan,

especially the first five months of this year, Beverly McGowan, the

wife of Malcolm McGowan, was going down very rapidly. Stephen's

mother, Steven's mother and and Malcolm was worried while his wife

see his son, and it wasn't to be. So it was a really difficult time

for them today, of course, it's a happy moment. It's also a sad

moment. Yes, you've had a united family. Now gifted, of the givers

was at the forefront of these negotiations. Take us through the

strategy you employed and how you maneuvered, through the

intricacies we had to find somebody. We know how all kind of

things, because we've been involved Yemen with the cocky

case. So we know they need somebody they can trust. Sorry,

I'm losing my history

excitement. They need somebody they can trust. So I went on news

23rd June, 2015 when Malcolm asked us to take on the case, and I

announced, is there anybody of Mali origin who knows the area,

who can come forward and help? And within two hours, I would

negotiate the qualities. I'm sorry, yeah, here dico walked in

and he said, I'm prepared to help you. A lot of people make that

kind of commitment, but you can't trust everybody. Yes, on the first

site, we knew that he was the man to trust. We sent him all over

into Mali. He went to all different areas. We showed we made

sure people know who he was, and by six weeks time, we found al

Qaeda. Al Qaeda accepted to talk to Yahya Diko through

intermediary. And so in August, 2015

we made contact with al Qaeda, and since then, with the

intermediaries, we've been busy with that process right after the

present time. It really speaks to this crucial engagement that's

needed with West African leaders. And would you say it's a step in

the right direction as we need to move towards a more cohesive

strategy, more cohesive attempts to fight extremism in all parts of

the continent? Yes, you have to fight continents extremism, not

only in this continent, but all over the world. But in fighting

extremism, we need to find the factors that lead to extremism.

Quite often, people are resisting or reacting to something that has

been done to them. Their countries have been invaded. Their lands

have been invaded. People don't say sorry. People go about it very

arrogantly. We're not saying that extremism is correct or can be

defended. It's wrong. Killing innocent people is not allowed in

any way whatsoever, but at the same time, we need to find the

factors and deal with those factors also that lead to

extremism six years a six year battle. Did you feel at any point

disillusioned or that you were hitting a stone wall, especially

when proof of life was not as forthcoming as you would have

liked it to be? Here? I was a disillusion. I would have stopped

long time ago. I knew there was a family that was dependent on me.

We made the connections. And as I said, we know how al Qaeda works.

An absence of a proof of life, video, rather, an absence of a

body is guaranteed proof of life, because if Al Qaeda kills family,

they'll make sure the whole world knows about that. So if they

don't, if there's nobody, you can be guaranteed that the person is

alive. Secondly, if you are Albert al Qaeda compared to any other

group, you are the most fortunate hostage, because they take very

good care of you. And this was said to me, bought by Yolandi, by

Jacques, the other hostage, the Dutch hostage, was released. He

came to visit me on the sixth of March, and they said, Look, I had

a great time in Mali, except I was in captivity. And Juan Gustafsson

said the same thing. We were very well looked after, and Steven is

in very good health, but waiting to come home. Do we have any idea

of his state of mind at this point? Very difficult to say.

Actually, his wife called this morning to say that Stephen wants

to meet me, and I said, it's not the right time. He needs to spend

time with you and with his father. I'm not in a rush. Let him bond

with you, and when we're ready, he's ready, we can speak.

When would you say in this entire process, did the crucial turning

point come after Ivan Gustafson's release? Because they had the

appetite to negotiate with everybody, in fact, all the

hostages now, the six that they're holding, this is the right time

for all the governments to get.

Involved because it's good to use the same team that was involved in

gustavson's release, in Stevens release, and it's good to go for

the same team, because they understand the process. We

understand the process, and the same processes are followed. Now

the governments can be successful too. We've always steered clear of

paying a ransom. Was a ransom paid? Can you tell us? I can't

tell you that I don't know, but ransom is not the only thing they

accept. They do accept. What else do they accept? Exchange of

prisoners. And sometimes you have, in the al Qaeda case, they have

other governments who have an influence on them and can have an

effect on them to release without paying any money. So that's a

possibility. I know the governments, but I can't mention

them. Excuse me, but it is possible they could be relieved,

and sometimes, if you're very lucky, like we pushed for Stephen

to be released on compassionate grounds. We said he's an African.

What? Africa doesn't have money. Africa hasn't harmed you. What do

you Why are you holding an African citizen? He's lost his mother.

There's no other friends with him. He's alone. Why don't you release

him? At one point, the elders put pressure on al Qaeda, and the

eldest among al Qaeda agreed to release Stephen over a year ago,

but the young blood that came to the organization refused very

quickly. What lessons can we take away from this?

The most important lesson, please don't go to our countries where

hostages are taken, where there's a known history of taking hostage,

please make sure you don't travel a negotiation. Always be honest in

what you do. Keep to your word. Be consistent in what you say. Treat

people with respect, even if you know the terrorists, because at

the end of the day, they can do whatever they want. They lose

their they can kill the hostage. So you play by the rules, and you

have to be your messaging has to be consistent, and they have to

see you to be honest and a trust, trustworthy broker, doctor, MTS,

Solomon, thank you for your time on the sabc news desk. Let's move

on.