Imtiaz Sooliman – reacts to the release of Steven Mcgowan
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the struggles faced by recent terrorist attacks and the importance of finding the right factors to fight extremism. They emphasize the need for a cohesive strategy and finding the right people to lead the fight. The speakers also emphasize the importance of showing proof of life and ensuring everyone is on the same page. The government is crucial, and the release of a family guarantee was guaranteed to make the whole world aware of the case. The speakers stress the importance of finding the right factors to deal with extremism and finding the right people to negotiate with.
AI: Summary ©
Steve, let's go back to our breaking story, a South African
tourist, Steven McGowan, who was kidnapped in 2011 by al Qaeda
while traveling in Mali, is has been released and is back home.
McGowan was one of four foreigners touring Mali on motorbikes who
were seized in a restaurant in the town of Timbuktu. For more on
this. We're joined in studio by the founder and director of gift
of the givers, who was at the forefront of those negotiations,
Dr MTS suraman, good afternoon, doctor. And thank you so much for
joining us on The sabc news desk. Good afternoon. Thank you, Kashi.
Let's get right into it all the hard work by the Department of
International Relations, gift of the givers and other NGOs really
coming to a head today. How do you feel right now? I feel extremely
happy, especially for Steven, for Malcolm and for Catherine, I've
met with Malcolm, and Malcolm is the father and Catherine the wife.
Over the last two years, very often I could see the pain, the
anguish, the anxiety, the suffering and the hardship they've
been through and recently, with the loss of Beverly McGowan,
especially the first five months of this year, Beverly McGowan, the
wife of Malcolm McGowan, was going down very rapidly. Stephen's
mother, Steven's mother and and Malcolm was worried while his wife
see his son, and it wasn't to be. So it was a really difficult time
for them today, of course, it's a happy moment. It's also a sad
moment. Yes, you've had a united family. Now gifted, of the givers
was at the forefront of these negotiations. Take us through the
strategy you employed and how you maneuvered, through the
intricacies we had to find somebody. We know how all kind of
things, because we've been involved Yemen with the cocky
case. So we know they need somebody they can trust. Sorry,
I'm losing my history
excitement. They need somebody they can trust. So I went on news
23rd June, 2015 when Malcolm asked us to take on the case, and I
announced, is there anybody of Mali origin who knows the area,
who can come forward and help? And within two hours, I would
negotiate the qualities. I'm sorry, yeah, here dico walked in
and he said, I'm prepared to help you. A lot of people make that
kind of commitment, but you can't trust everybody. Yes, on the first
site, we knew that he was the man to trust. We sent him all over
into Mali. He went to all different areas. We showed we made
sure people know who he was, and by six weeks time, we found al
Qaeda. Al Qaeda accepted to talk to Yahya Diko through
intermediary. And so in August, 2015
we made contact with al Qaeda, and since then, with the
intermediaries, we've been busy with that process right after the
present time. It really speaks to this crucial engagement that's
needed with West African leaders. And would you say it's a step in
the right direction as we need to move towards a more cohesive
strategy, more cohesive attempts to fight extremism in all parts of
the continent? Yes, you have to fight continents extremism, not
only in this continent, but all over the world. But in fighting
extremism, we need to find the factors that lead to extremism.
Quite often, people are resisting or reacting to something that has
been done to them. Their countries have been invaded. Their lands
have been invaded. People don't say sorry. People go about it very
arrogantly. We're not saying that extremism is correct or can be
defended. It's wrong. Killing innocent people is not allowed in
any way whatsoever, but at the same time, we need to find the
factors and deal with those factors also that lead to
extremism six years a six year battle. Did you feel at any point
disillusioned or that you were hitting a stone wall, especially
when proof of life was not as forthcoming as you would have
liked it to be? Here? I was a disillusion. I would have stopped
long time ago. I knew there was a family that was dependent on me.
We made the connections. And as I said, we know how al Qaeda works.
An absence of a proof of life, video, rather, an absence of a
body is guaranteed proof of life, because if Al Qaeda kills family,
they'll make sure the whole world knows about that. So if they
don't, if there's nobody, you can be guaranteed that the person is
alive. Secondly, if you are Albert al Qaeda compared to any other
group, you are the most fortunate hostage, because they take very
good care of you. And this was said to me, bought by Yolandi, by
Jacques, the other hostage, the Dutch hostage, was released. He
came to visit me on the sixth of March, and they said, Look, I had
a great time in Mali, except I was in captivity. And Juan Gustafsson
said the same thing. We were very well looked after, and Steven is
in very good health, but waiting to come home. Do we have any idea
of his state of mind at this point? Very difficult to say.
Actually, his wife called this morning to say that Stephen wants
to meet me, and I said, it's not the right time. He needs to spend
time with you and with his father. I'm not in a rush. Let him bond
with you, and when we're ready, he's ready, we can speak.
When would you say in this entire process, did the crucial turning
point come after Ivan Gustafson's release? Because they had the
appetite to negotiate with everybody, in fact, all the
hostages now, the six that they're holding, this is the right time
for all the governments to get.
Involved because it's good to use the same team that was involved in
gustavson's release, in Stevens release, and it's good to go for
the same team, because they understand the process. We
understand the process, and the same processes are followed. Now
the governments can be successful too. We've always steered clear of
paying a ransom. Was a ransom paid? Can you tell us? I can't
tell you that I don't know, but ransom is not the only thing they
accept. They do accept. What else do they accept? Exchange of
prisoners. And sometimes you have, in the al Qaeda case, they have
other governments who have an influence on them and can have an
effect on them to release without paying any money. So that's a
possibility. I know the governments, but I can't mention
them. Excuse me, but it is possible they could be relieved,
and sometimes, if you're very lucky, like we pushed for Stephen
to be released on compassionate grounds. We said he's an African.
What? Africa doesn't have money. Africa hasn't harmed you. What do
you Why are you holding an African citizen? He's lost his mother.
There's no other friends with him. He's alone. Why don't you release
him? At one point, the elders put pressure on al Qaeda, and the
eldest among al Qaeda agreed to release Stephen over a year ago,
but the young blood that came to the organization refused very
quickly. What lessons can we take away from this?
The most important lesson, please don't go to our countries where
hostages are taken, where there's a known history of taking hostage,
please make sure you don't travel a negotiation. Always be honest in
what you do. Keep to your word. Be consistent in what you say. Treat
people with respect, even if you know the terrorists, because at
the end of the day, they can do whatever they want. They lose
their they can kill the hostage. So you play by the rules, and you
have to be your messaging has to be consistent, and they have to
see you to be honest and a trust, trustworthy broker, doctor, MTS,
Solomon, thank you for your time on the sabc news desk. Let's move
on.