Imtiaz Sooliman – . on Cape Town refugees, Shiraaz Mohamed
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And, thank you for tuning in to Morning
Live. Now humanitarian aid organization,
gift of the givers, they say that a
decision on whether they will resume aid to
foreign nationals living in the Cape Town CBD,
will be made today.
Now previously, the organization provided food,
toiletries, and medical services to a group of
foreign nationals after they were removed from the
offices of the United Nations High Commissioner for
refugees.
The aid was suspended, however, after the leaders
of the refugees were angered by remarks that,
their demands for the resettlement
were unrealistic.
So to tell us more about these latest
developments in the story, I'm joined on the
line by gift of the givers founder, doctor
Imtiaz Silliman. Thank you so much for your
time this morning and,
compliments of the season to you, doctor Silliman.
Good morning to you, Sakina. And the same
compliments to you that it is management staff
and the entire viewership of Morninglife.
Well, thank you so much. Doctor Sichman, let's
just take a few steps back on the
story in terms of,
getting to understand why Gift of the Givers
actually withdrew their support to the refugees.
Well, it wasn't so much us withdrawing. It
was us being asked to leave.
In your introduction, you mentioned that we stated
that the demands of the foreign nationals were
unrealistic
and we still stand by that, you know,
that we we we made it clear at
the time that we were going
in that our intervention is very temporary
that a permanent solution has to be found.
The permanent solution is one of 2 options.
1,
the foreign nationals, you know, are safely reintegrated
into South African society
which a lot of them are calling for
right now.
And secondly,
if they want to, they can be
repatriated
to their own country
for them to expect another country like Canada
or some other, you know, another country to
take them. It's an unrealistic demand. It's not
a demand to be fulfilled by the event,
by the sort of taken government. If they
want to do that, then you should go
to their own country first and make the
arrangements from there. We stand by that because
otherwise this matter will carry on for years
and for years. And the problem is in
all this discussions and diplomacy and politics, the
people that suffer the most are the women
and the children. And we've seen in a
church from, you know, from the end of
October right till now. They're the ones that
suffer the most.
Doctor Sullivan, just on a point of clarity,
because the question then becomes,
why is gift of the givers engaging in
that level of discussion,
with the refugees as opposed to just providing
aid?
We we not discuss give the the the
the discussing at that level. We've told them
clearly we are yet to help, but you
only should got to be sorted out with
the UN, not with us.
And so we have come as a military
organization,
but we can't be here forever. And your
processes since you are refugees,
you fall under the UN HCR.
We've had discussions with UNHCR. We've had discussions
with South African Human Rights on the Commission,
and we made it clear to the the
refugees
that you guys need to go into UN
camps and we fall at the UN also.
And UN has been engaging us in that
period last year. I think they've been looking
for this week also that they have to
set up camps. Everything is under their control.
Once they're in their camps, we will look
at them providing assistance in association with the
UN and Human Rights Commission in those camps
until one of these two solutions are found.
Either if someone come back into solidarity society
or others want to go home. That's not
our responsibility.
We, as you mentioned, are only from the
humanitarian point of view, but we'd advise the
foreign nationals that this is what they need
to do.
So have you had any further discussions or
consultations with the refugees since then?
Yes. We said could, the guy called Pappi,
the other leader now, you know, that he's
been calling. He's been calling my Cape Town
office. He's been very conciliatory,
very apologetic, saying it was not them that
asked us to leave, that they wanted us
back. They've said it in many, many media
statements and public announcements, and he voiced it
himself and media. We've explained to him exactly
what I've told you now, Hong A, that
you got 2 options.
And they said, look, they understand that. And
from what I understand, if he's prepared to
take his
the the people and go to UN camps
and from there, work out a policy of
whether they can come in the country or
leave the country. In addition, for for that
to happen, of course, we need engagement of
homophase. Well, I think homophase is very key
to engage with the UN and South African
Human Rights Commission and with the foreign nationals
to see what they can do. Everybody wants
this matter to end. And as an aside,
we cannot continue doing this at the church
because you're affecting the normal functioning of the
church. Father reverend
Evan Story was very open hearted and generous.
He had provided the church for a period
of time. We have to respect that people
have to worshippers have to get back to
the church. Also, the church is not conducive
to so many people staying there. It's a
health hazard and we know that it's a
health crisis in 5 day. And other than
that, it's affecting and causing bad relations with
the people outside the church. It's affecting the
economy
and it understands all of the economic
losses. Then not only the economy, it's affecting
the population, the civilians in Cape Town. So
as a balance,
the UN camp is the best option for
everyone and the leaders and the and the
nationals are fully aware of that. And I
think they can just they can use us
to that kind of thinking.
Speaking of health conditions, we understand that there,
might be a chickenpox
outbreak,
amongst the refugees there. Have you heard anything
about that, doctor Suleiman?
Well, I've heard about that, but another statement
said
there is the east chicken pox and then
something mentioned nobody has died from that. I
don't know why that was relevant in any
case, but that that's now the mandate of
the health department. And I know the city
health and safety and security
also want to engage in the church and,
you know, to take care of the people.
But again, it comes back down. Where do
you do it? You know? Do we do
it in the church? Do we do it
in the street? Or do we do we
do it in a more conducive environment?
And everything comes down to 1. They need
to be moved from the church.
The church needs needs to be, you know,
again, reclaimed in terms of from a hygiene
and an infection point of view. And once
these camps are set up, the camps have
to be humane. It can't be just some
dump. It has to be a place where
women and children can look in a very
dignified manner and even of course the elderly
people and the males in a dignified manner.
And in that camp then the medical teams
can then assist, provide the food, provide the
whatever it can be required while the paperwork
is being processed. We have to emphasize,
it can't be a process forever. There has
to be some finality at some point. You
can't stand cancer ever if you go back
to society or you go back to your
country.
So we understand that gift of the givers
will be making a decision regarding this, particular
matter today.
At what point and what are you hoping
will come out of it, doctor Solomon?
No. We made a decision already last week.
The decision is we will once we move
to the camps,
we will then work to prevent the support
the level which we can support. We we
can't they need help. We have no problem.
We have no problem with that. We have
a problem continuing in the same place where
they are right now because of all the
things I mentioned earlier. It's just to disrupt
for everybody.
And, you know, it's it's coming to no
finality. Once the UN comes and as if
the UN has been trying to get all
of us, we will speak to them today
in association with the UN Human Rights Commission,
Home Affairs. We don't mind supporting the refugees
to whatever extent we can, but it has
to be in a UN controlled environment.
Alright. And, doctor Silman, just a final question
unrelated to the refugee situation,
on the, story of, Shiraz Mohammed, the photographer
who was held captive in Syria and has
now returned. Family said, Gifted the Givers had
abandoned him. And tell us, what's the latest
with regard to that?
Look. The the story we had never abandoned
him, they had decided to go on their
own with another negotiator.
And it's our policy that we will never
work when there's more than 1 negotiator. We
have experienced with this since 2011.
And whilst we were negotiating for you, they
were the people, the captains, who had the
intermediary call us and said we're talking to
2 or 3 other groups. So we said
don't call us back. If as long as
they're talking to towards the other groups, don't
call us back. We will only speak to
you if you speak to us alone.
And at some point, they came back to
they said, and we only be now speaking
to you alone. And in April of this
year, they released the proof of the first
proof of life video to us. And the
progression the discussions are going now. They wanted
1,500,000
US dollars ransom. They're crawling out of the
mind knowing they can pay that kind of
money. And eventually, we had reached $300,000,
and we were coming down and down. And
eventually, at that point in June, the family
said, look, that well, they didn't tell us.
They just we just found out they were
using somebody else. And they said, it's fine.
You know what? In the interest of the
hostage and the family, you need to do
if somebody else can do it faster, we
have no problem. You know, it's it's in
your interest. If you can do it faster,
please go ahead because we don't pay ransom.
And, you know, we we we if there's
certain processes we follow. And they carried on.
So we told them clearly, go on the
way you want to go. And then, of
course, in it was by mere chance that
on the 14th December, we got called by
somebody in Syria to say that Shiraz has
escaped, you know, and that, at the same
evening, they said they're moving across the Turkey
border. It's now very safe with the hands
of Turkish intelligence.
My people on the ground confirmed that. Once
they confirmed that, the next day we made
a press release. And thereafter, we went back
with Perko who confirmed on the 18th December
that Shiraz is indeed in the hands of
the Turkish government. They are negotiating with, the
Turkish government. That same evening on 18, DECO
met us personally where they told us the
same thing. And on the 26th December, they
told us again that Shiraz is still in
the hands of the Turkish government is still
there. And they asked, of course, we didn't
know because we're not involved in the case.
We haven't phoned Erco. And since we're not
involved in the case, we didn't ask any
more questions. And then through Reuters,
on Thursday, 2nd January,
I got a call to ask, have you
heard? That should ask if either in the
country
or on the way of being sent by
Turkish,
intelligence back to South Africa? I said, no.
I don't know. So he said how I
asked him, how do you know? He said
his sources from Reuters sources were told by
Turkish intelligence that Shiraz is on the way.
That's all I know. And then afterwards, we
heard that the family had made some announcement
that he is in South Africa.
Have you had any contact with them or
with him since then?
No. Not they just said that from the
message they sent out, they like to have
their space. It's a family matter. And, you
know, and we we we just respecting that.
But from Gift of the Givers side,
he did not go with Gift of the
Givers on a mission to Syria?
With the Gift of the Givers, there's no
mission in Syria.
When we have a mission, a mission comprises
a whole medical team, a whole lot of
media that's heavily with us. One person doesn't
represent the gift certificates mission.
Yes. He was from we only sent to
know afterwards that he was there. He was
invited by somebody who was a volunteer that
used to work with gift of the givers.
And this volunteer does work with many other
organizations.
And he was invited by him, but around
that same period we had terminated the services
of the volunteer for various reasons. So Shiraz
had gone there was no invitation letter from
gift of the givers. Please can you go
to Syria or do this, get any other
files. We don't need that. So we've been
there since 2012,
and we've got teams that send us messages
and video and footage. So we really didn't
need that. But Shida was keen to go.
I only learned afterwards that he was there,
and I was horrified that he even actually
got there all alone in a crisis situation
like that. And once he was taken and
of course, when he went to the hospital,
my teams took care of him. They showed
him the camps. They showed him courtesy. He's
a South African. He's come to a South
African facility, you know, and but it's only
towards 3 days later, and then he disappeared.
And, of course, as we do for all
South Africans, we try to do our best
to bring them back home.
Well, thank you so much, doctor Intia Cinnamon,
gift of the givers founder, talking to us
about the organization,
and the the situation with the refugees, foreign
nationals living in the Cape Town CBD, and
also,
the issue around Shiraz Mohammed. We're gonna take
a break.