Ighsaan Taliep – What are our Islamic obligations, post elections
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Assalamualaikum. Welcome back to hilaho LIVE. Thanks for watching
us on channel 347, also on our live stream. Www.hilahu.tv
today, we discuss the changes in our political climate and how it
affects us as South Africans and also people abroad who constantly
want to invest and empower South Africans in the process, my panel
in studio, I'd like to first welcome attorney ixand Higgins,
Assalamu alaikum. Did yourself include the viewers? JazakAllah,
so much for joining us. And then just for because we can do it, we
decided to invite another iksan, Sheik Talib into studio as well.
Assalamu alaikum. Sheik Salam Abu the invitation. My absolute
pleasure. The last couple of weeks has been a worrying time for South
Africans, and surprisingly, I heard a comment about one of the
reports that came out recently is that South Africans are a little
more optimistic after the elections. However, many South
Africans at the same time are not feeling that optimism when it
comes to our elections. Maybe I should start with Sheik Santali
first as well. Tonight, we want to discuss, and we open up the
WhatsApp line as well. For our viewers, you're welcome to join
us. 07908525,
double, one. Let us know your thoughts on the WhatsApp line,
we'd like to discuss what is our Islamic obligations post the
elections. And in a recent lecture that Sheik delivered as well, you
made some very valid points. We've now seen the cabinet being
elected. We still going through quite a few of the GNU back and
forth, but in Sheikh's opinion, and from your view, how should we
as South Africans look at as Muslim South Africans? How should
we look at the way things have unfolded?
Him, shukan Lokman,
for us in the first instance, the anxiety, Alhamdulillah, I think
has now subsided a little bit. We've, we've kind of emerged out
of that process of uncertainty and waiting and not knowing what's
going to happen. But during that process, of course, we've also not
lost any opportunity to kind of add, you know, to the anxiety with
all the speculations that were going on around the GNU, around,
of course, the whole process that somehow was not a coalition, or
was not a grand coalition, or was a GNU, and so forth. And so,
I think it is important for us to continue to realize that this is
not something this is not something that happened within a
vacuum. This is something that has a very
definitive historical process that brought about the situation,
right? And so, from a theological and from a faith perspective, this
is fundamental. And so these things don't fall out of the sky.
These things don't pop up within a vacuum. These things are the
cumulative consequences of what and who we are. Absolutely, I
think it's very valid points that Sheik has brought up as well, and
maybe I should bring in ixania in on this as well from civil
society. How do we move forward? How do we, you know, retrain our
brain, because we had a very different way of thinking prior to
the elections and what we anticipated to happen. All of that
has now upset, upset the apple cart to a point. From civil
society, how do we look at it as sa Muslims, yeah, from a civil
society perspective, I think, firstly, the entire process, the
election process, has been a very good education for South Africans,
I think those, especially people that were very apathetic when it
comes to politics. I mean, it was in your face, it was in the media,
it was in social media. It was all over. All you heard was politics.
You know, people and vying for votes, support, campaigning,
T shirts, alcohol, you name it,
politicians were doing what they what they can to actually get
people's attention. And of course, much anticipated
activists got involved. Some activists wanted to become
politicians as well. Of course, they also went to put their names
forward. And of course, so there was a big education process
throughout the election period. Then, of course, the ANC getting
less than what they anticipated, getting their 40% as opposed to a
majority. And of course, the talks about coalition, Visa, VG and you
that also intensified the education campaign for South
Africans as a whole. And of course, we now understood who's
going to be in politics and who's not going to be in politics.
See. But of course, people were still concerned about who's going
to do what, of course. And of course, as Shakespeare said, Now
we, we, we now learnt, you know, who's going to be in what
positions. So that anxiety isn't there anymore, right, right? But
now, of course, we have to deliver the disappointment of who is
there. And of course, our speculation at this point in time
as to the ability of a particular minister or deputy minister to do
the job, to deliver, because that's what people are concerned
about. It doesn't matter who's in the in the driving seat. Will
there be a delivery? And I think this is exactly where civil
society comes in, because now we have a duty to keep people
accountable, of course. And the beauty about South Africa is that
you can actually hold politicians accountable. You have countries
like and I'm going to mention Turkey, where activism is frowned
upon, yeah. And I mean, if you have Abdullah ochil And on the
Kurdish community, he was sent to jail on irali Island for being the
activist, right? And nobody even knows, nobody can even visit him.
But South Africa, that doesn't happen. We don't have situations
where we are so oppressed that we can't actually call out errant
politicians or even an errand president. So I think this is the
opportunity for activists to shine, and also to encourage more
people and more South Africans to become activists so that we can
hold politicians and bureaucrats accountable for service delivery.
Sheik, I want to bring up when it comes to lessons learned from the
teachings of our Holy Quran on how we as South African Muslims cope
with the current situation, and how do we cope better going
forward. What are some of the lessons that we can learn from
from the Quran or from, you know, various scriptures on how to
better live our lives with the current situation. Yeah, so I
think in the first instance, it's, it's very important
to to to to take that lessons based outlook, and then almost
craft the
the conversation about, what are our obligations, okay, right? So,
when, when we look at the notion in in our fifth for example, of
what is it, what does it mean to be a citizen? So there has been,
this is a new phenomenon, a new development. There has been the
fic of citizenship, for example. So, what does it mean to be a
citizen? What are your duties and your responsibilities? And so guy
scholars like our own teacher, Sheik Yusuf karadawi, also the
elderly statesman like Sheik of our Sheik Raji dahanoshi, who is
eight years in jail in Tunisia right now, you spoke about the
people who are jailed in Turkey. Turkey is the country where you
have the vast the leading country in terms of jailing of journalists
is Turkey. Is the highest number of journalists in jail in the
world is Turkey.
So when you talk about how the development of the fear of of
citizenship has gone. There are three tears and legs to it.
There's a beautiful article also by Ishaq Imam Rashid Umar, on this
in the Al Qalam recently. They are premised on three fundamentals.
Number one is justice, because the entire edifice of the Sharia is
based on justice.
Number two is about mutual consultation Shura. How do you
apply consultative processes for decision making? So decision
making based on churra and then also accountability. So these are
the three fundamental principles which form the edifice which is
about governance. Right now, governance is a topic which is not
the really kind of broach in the Muslim community. So our
conversation that we had also was, if we going forward, we know all
of these three things. Maybe we hear about it a lot, but now
there's a principle that is an adage that says we only know what
we learn through doing. It's when we do these things. Right? Where
do we get the opportunities to actually implement these things.
But one thing in terms of going forward, that is for sure, in the
same way, as I've mentioned earlier on, the Quranic principles
are absolutely crystal, fundamentally clear, is that when
you do not hold your people in power or in positions of
responsibility, when you do not hold them accountable, the divine
decree is absolutely crystal clear. Corruption shall spread
through the Earth. Of course, this is Quran, this is scripture,
Revelation, and so then going forward, we then have, I would
say, our jobs cut out for ourselves. For example, now.
Parliament, and you must guide me. Ziziko, for example. This is a
person who is now in a process of
being held accountable for corruption. The ANC is step aside.
Rule was not upheld in this particular instance of his. He's
sitting in Parliament right now. So what do we do as citizens, but
but that's, as I've said, the latest information that I have
about him. I don't know if there has been a change in that status
quo. The question will be, how do we as South African citizens
respond to that particular instance in terms of
accountability and holding government account? I want to
bring up very quickly before we take a break and maybe for us to
think about as well. We're looking at a government like Kenya at the
moment that are going through so many protests over a tax bill that
they're not happy about in the end, you know, I'm not saying we
need to go and burn down parliament, because the last
burning hasn't been that hasn't been fixed as yet, so we can't do
any more damage. But at the same time, it's the people that have
uprised and spoken and been heard at the same time to the point that
the President has now canceled the bill. You know, do we need more,
more of that in our in our society, in our country, or do we
have other alternatives? Something to think, think about just before
the break when we come back. Do join us on the WhatsApp line, oh
7908525,
double one. We'd like to hear your opinion. We're chatting to Sheik
ixan Talib and attorney ixan Higgins in studio. Thanks for
watching us on Hilal TV.
Assalamu, Alaikum. Welcome back to Hilal live. Thanks for joining us.
We have the WhatsApp line open discussing a very important topic
about how we as Muslims in South Africa move ahead with regards to
the current political climate. Do join us on the WhatsApp line. Oh
7908525,
double one. We'd like to hear your opinion, your questions, your
thoughts. We've got Sheik exon Talib in studio. JazakAllah, once
again, she for joining us, and then also Higgins, who always
comes in on a Wednesday to chat to us as well. Thank you so much for
coming into studio. Before the break, I mentioned a question
about looking at a government like Kenya that the the community, the
population has made their voice heard with their protest actions
to the point that the President has now canceled the tax bill that
he was going to implement. Should we be doing more of that? I think
we definitely should be doing and I mean, it's not like we don't
have the tools or the history or the experience we've always been,
I mean, as a press community, we've always had the ability to
organize under very, very difficult circumstances. I mean,
we had the precedence of 1976 1985
where there was no social media, there was no channels of
communication, like cell phones and things like that, but we
organized. If people said we going to meet on the corner of Ponton
and Clifton road this afternoon, we were there. Everybody was
there. There were people within the 1000s. But I think people
operated from a position of principle at that time. Today we
decide, or we choose, which principles we allow in which we
don't. I mean, we've we go out in our droves, 1000s, hundreds of
1000s. When we march for Palestine, people have all the cob
on the flags, the flying. And then at the same time, those very
people that March
during those marches, they invite people who's, who's, who's
actually advocating for the genocide in in Palestine, parties
that that supported, parties that have come out and said, Well, we,
we support the two state solution and all that. And almost like and
and Israel has the the right to defend themselves. They invite
people like that to their functions, to their Muslim
functions. Now you wonder,
on what principle did those people think about a principle first, or
did they now just look at the 30 pieces of silver that those people
will now be giving them at some point in the future, may or may
not, but they abandon the principles for the 30 pieces of
silver. And I think maybe that's where we as activists, we we need
to maybe start working with our people, making them understand
certain things, working with with our young people, letting them
understand principles, because once they start understanding
principles, then they will, they will be in a position to make
better decisions in terms of who they fraternize with. Absolutely,
very good point you've brought up there, Sheik is on, maybe, if you
could touch on that as well, and and one of the things we've
noticed, and many people have brought up, is that when we have
these rallies, when we have our protest actions, when we have our
little gatherings to support the genocide or to support our
brothers and sisters against the genocide that is happening in Gaza
at the moment, we've used it as an Instagram moment. You know, we use
it as a social media moment, where do we start?
Drawing the line, and, you know, being more proactive and take
notice and cognizant of what is happening in Gaza at the moment.
Yeah. So I think the point that Hassan raises is our responses
appear to be emotional, that we are emotionally driven on a
particular point when something happens. And so at that point, we
kind of react, and we probably do not rationalize. What is the basis
for our action? We probably do not ground our decisions that we make
on the basis of values, right? And so this point we made about the
fit of citizenship, the foregrounded value is justice,
because this is the preeminent value of the Quran, the preeminent
value for all of Revelation, all of the commission of every prophet
throughout history and throughout humanity, and for every religion
which Allah refers to as this Mizan, this balance has always and
forever only been justice. That's Allah's own explicit reference in
the Holy Quran, right? So
in addition to justice, is about the notion of making decisions.
How do we make decisions? So the question arises, how do we conduct
our affairs as a community? We have structures. We have
organizations such as messaging.
We have organizations, maybe as Islamic institutions. This is what
we have. What is, what is the the value and the place? What is the
premium that we place on the value of ethics and justice? What is the
very good point? What is the premium we place on ethics and
just very good point, what is the premium we place on taking
decisions based on consultative process
that's in masajid, and then you're coming about Mahasabha? Are we
holding one another accountable? Do we even see masajid Islamic
institutions diligently having a governance sort of principle of
disclosure of financial affairs.
So these are all those things which, as a result of us
ritualizing our faith. This is the problem. When we ritualize our
faith, there's there's no the conversation of values is almost
non existent, right? Because we ritualize everything, right,
right? Whereas, if the rituals are there, as the Quran deals with it
to bolster and to amplify values, then we may go back to the point,
as if San said in the past, when we had the call towards a point
of, let's say, opposition against the injustice, etc, bearing
testimony, bearing witness, that we may, Inshallah, begin to see
the resurrection of the responses of people brilliant. I've got a
whatsapp that's come through that we can read out at the moment. It
says, assalamu, Alaikum. I think we as South African Muslims really
knocked our heads very hard during this election. The Imams should
start propagating unity and rally the Muslims together as a strong,
united body to be reckoned with, then we can achieve something
politically for the Muslims. It goes to the points that Sheik has
has mentioned as well. One of the points I'd like to raise when it
comes to one of the very important topics that we cannot,
you know, look past, is we in South Africa have can only do so
much. We rely on international trade, international community to
be part of what we do in South Africa, and to maybe for our guys
to trade internationally as well. Maybe I can start with Exxon
first. On this point, how is this election affected, or if anything
enhanced, the way we communicate with the international community
well, and I'm speaking more the Islamic International Community.
Okay, that's a different question, because I think, well, let's speak
about the international community first. I think we are all led to
believe that the international community is watching us, yeah,
based on whether the rain goes up or down,
I think South Africans must do what they do best and stop reading
the the mainstream media make it because the mainstream media, but
he makes it seem as if, if you don't do it in a certain way right
then, then The national markets will react. Good point. I think we
need to do what we do best. We often refer to the Moody's
ratings, and I mean all the poor and all this type of rating
agencies. I think they've threatened so many times. You
know, they're going to downgrade us. They're going to put us in the
gray area all these things we get threatened with all the time. But
does it affect? How does it affect that person who's working hard
that can't make ends meet? Of course, I think we need to get
past that and do what is good for our communities and our families
and and stop listening to the noise. Of course, we know the
folk.
Chris, but hopefully, Inshallah, we can have a little bit more talk
on that issue. I don't think we have enough time, unfortunately,
check if I can get your response on that. So, so I concur the issue
of the tools and these, in a sense, almost like, let's call it,
weapons, is being weaponized by global Zionist capitalism. Global
Zionist capitalism weaponizes this in terms of a narrative, right? So
you'll be, you'll be gray, sort of scaled, or you'll be placed into a
gray zone, or whatever, down the downgrade, etc. And the very
people in this particular instance right now, where, which was a key
component of the Muslim kind of narrative, as well as South
Africa, as well as the government, didn't work out that great for the
government at the time. Was the Palestinian question. This is a
fundamental existential question of how
the change of global Zionist capitalism has been exposed
unprecedentedly, and so the tools that they use, as Ihsan is saying,
to almost, in a sense, threaten and to browbeat and to
psychologically barrage,
especially third world countries, is all of this stuff that we're
referring to. That doesn't mean that economic principles are not
important. That doesn't mean that, yes, I would agree with the sound.
It's not about Muslim countries and non Muslim countries and
trade, Islamic trade. It's about global trade. It's about how
global, sort of modes and currents, but, but this is the
question about how, also, as South Africa being part of BRICS, and
how that ties into the whole notion of the ability to withstand
the pressures, etc. So for us, I think it is, it is critical to
work on the ground. We have to work on the ground. As a society,
if we do not work on the ground, we're going to we're going to
further have a deterioration of what we have. Gentlemen, thank you
so much for coming into studio. I think it meant for fascinating
conversation, and I think it gives our audience a better perspective
on how to look at things going forward as well. Josekala, so
much. Have a lovely evening, and
that's all that we have for you. For Hillel life, for today, to
join us tomorrow between five and six from the Cape Town team, so
he'll Barnes Mohammed Parker and for myself. Lukman Shadrach, have
a great evening. Assalamu, Alaikum. You.