Hatem al-Haj – Fiqh of Transactions #9 – Advance Payment Sales
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of clear and precise prices for delivery and the use of flexible contracts. They also discuss the transfer of items and the possibility of selling items that are not generic and deliverable. The need for detailed information and location for buildings is emphasized. The speakers emphasize the need for clear language and specific terms for contracts. They end by offering to entertain the audience for questions and encourage them to leave comments.
AI: Summary ©
I'm about to proceed.
Do you remember what we
talked about last time and
we will see our options in sales options in sales
Okay, this time we will talk about buy sell them or buy sell
sell them or sell him at the end or
so, it's called seller or seller
seller
or seller
both are correct
okay.
buyer seller means advanced payment sale advanced payments if you remember the first time we talked about sales when we add that temporal factor to the equation, then we come up with four different types one of them because what what do we have we have a commodity enterprise we have a commodity and the price and if we have
and even sometimes the price could be another commodity because we said bartering is another form of sale. So, but from your in the commodity is what you pursue the price is what you pay. So, from your end there will always be a commodity and a price. So, so we have a commodity enterprise. Now the commodity and the end then we have immediate and deferred the delivery that's the factor that we add or added here the temporal factor when it comes to delivery, if the delivery is immediate
immediate
commodity
price immediate immediate, that is what sale proper that is just buyer sale proper. And because it's a proper we don't give it a definition
and then when you have
commodity is delivered commodity,
what if you have
deferred for the third
that is called debayer and Carolyn and Kelly which would be according to the majority translated as deferred so bad galley or bad galley bill can defer defer deferred and that is what the vast majority
consider it prohibited
Okay, and then but what if you have the commodity here the price here? What if you have and I'm sorry for the sisters because they can see this? Well if you have commodity
is delivered
okay. So commodity is delivered immediately.
But the price is the third What is this called? By agile or by Bill agile which is the third payment, save the third payment, save.
And then in look at Arabic The other day I succeed, never succeed or bad agile development agile, agile.
Okay,
what if you have the commodity now? So now let's come to seven, final one.
What if you have
deferred, defer the delivery of the commodity, but
the delivery of the price is immediate. So in in the measure that's locked in the session of the contract, you pay the price, but you defer the delivery of the commodity. This is called the Bayer SLM, which means
switching instead of deferred payment said it will be advance payment save or you may like improvise and come up with a different translation, deferred
delivery
commodity sale
anyway, it's not. So, let us let us go over the definition of buy a sudden in this sense May I sell them the quantity mo Sufi Ism bitterman at the merch booth fee measure this
this definition in also entails some of the conditions that we will talk about. So, Allah we will talk about the definition we will talk about the ruling we will talk about the conditions we will talk about the limitations of those scenes. And then finally, we will talk about the cancellation.
So, in the definition the try to have a definition that is basically
so accurate that that can save you a lot of memorization. So Bayer is saying most of describable fism owed by a liable mechanic. So to sell something that is describable Keep in mind this is extremely important
describable fee them owed by a liable McAuliffe the theremin listen for
it or in exchange for a price. mocha them that's advanced mock booth that is delivered fee in maginnis session, a lot of the contract. So it is the sell something that is describable owed by a liable mechanic in exchange for a price that is advanced and delivered entirely in the session of the contract. Before we part before we separate, you have to deliver all the price, before we separate each one of those is an important, you know, it's an important addition, because it will be relevant to the conditions and the limitations of those setup contracts. Someone may say, What didn't you say in the first session that, you know, one of the main
sort of one of the main principles of sales is the heartbeat of
Latin America a sign that do not sell that which you do not possess? Isn't this selling what you do not possess?
That's true or not.
So when I tell you, I want two tons of
two tons of
Egyptian cotton,
whatever.
And then as a certain type and so that describe it very well done, and so on and so forth. And you don't have the two tons of Egyptian cotton. And you take the money from me. And you tell me you know delivered by such and such date. And you tell me Okay, I'll do the delivery by such and such date. Aren't you setting that which you do not possess?
Yes, what's the difference? The difference is the latter Malaika in fact don't send that which you do not possess will apply to particular items, not a generic item that is describable and that is
that can be qualified accurately by the description. So when you say
when you're when you're talking about a particular item about the orchard of Abdullah or the orchard of Hasson that is in that the you know, the orchard doesn't sell me the orchard or the person
that is in that particular neighborhood or send me
Ali's apartment.
These apartments send me out his apartment and then you go and sell to them on his apartment and then you go buy the apartment from Holly that is forbidden letter signed, don't sell that which you do not possess. But if it is a generic generic item that can be qualified by accurate description that is permissible that is called sell them transaction. But it is because the profits are seldom why because you know because Allah wanted to encourage us to do sale proper
Because it is the least contentious type of sale, which is immediate for immediate immediate delivery of both the price and the commodity. We said before the law wanted to, you know encourage us to do this type of sale. And a lot wanted also to encourage us to do price for commodity versus commodity for commodity which is bartering. So bartering has limitations correct or not? bartering has limitations and we spoke about them when we spoke about Traber bartering has many limitations to push us to do what the province of Southern said No, don't do that, sell the dates, sell the sort of the, the
sell the sort of the regular grade dates for them for their homes and then take their homes and purchase the higher grade dates with these terms, that is standardization important for the economy important for the markets. So, bartering was limited by forcing limitations. And the same applies to the to these different types of saying when
the price is deferred, you have some limitations there as well, it is not immediately immediate is immediate, and defer there have some limitations for a year as well, but when the commodity is deferred, you have a lot more limitations, a lot more conditions, why because this could be more contentious than when the price is deferred and both could result in contention more than the one that is immediate delivery of both ends of the contract the same the the price and the commodity. So what we will be talking about here is basically the the conditions and the limitations in this particular contract, which is the advance payment sale. But what is the wisdom of permitting this to
begin with? If we are saying that it results in contention, why don't we just block the means the evil
because it's, it's you know, and these are rhetorical questions, I'm not expecting you to answer by the way
just
you know, I'm just using whatever public speaking skills because
just to grab your attention
so what is the
what is okay, so why are we allowing this in the first place? Because it's, it's, it's extremely needed. It's extremely needed because a farmer may not have the money I may have I may have a need for cotton, but I don't have an immediate need for the cotton. I will need the cotton for my factory in six months. The farmer has the skill has the land does not have the money. So I give the farmer the money. He grows the cotton for me. I get the cotton at a cheaper price because I am paying in advance. The farmer got the money to cultivate his land it's a win win situation. So there is a need and when there is a need you know there's a way but
but the Shara gives us alternatives that Shara does not prevent us from something that we need unless the shodai gives us an alternative.
Okay, so the CF Rahim Allah tala said
the long run whom are called Kadima. Rasulullah saw Solomon Medina home use LIFO and FSC. Mr. Sen. Sen. A man has left the summer for us the fee Caden maloom wasn't in maloom was added in maloom
generated that when a loss messenger came to Medina, the people were paying for fruits, one and two years in advance, the people were paying for fruits one or two years in advance. So he said, Those who pay in advance for anything must do so for a specified measure or wait. And for a definitive or a definite time specified measure or weight and definite time. Basically, to avoid contention. To avoid contention, you have to be very specific, very detailed about the description of the commodity that you want.
Because you will finalize the contract now and you will get your product in two years. So your contract really needs to
things out very clearly and very precisely what is it that you're expecting to get into yours so that we avoid contention at the time of delivery
but you notice one thing here and I pointed it out in your in the document today sent to which is that Islam does really recognize the power the the mental power
of
vaccine and puppy Hockley discernment, our ability to discern our ability to, to, to basically improvise our ability as human beings to figure things out that are good for us in this life. So when it's not when when when when the Dean was revealed when the Sharia was revealed to the Prophet sallallahu Sallam it did not intend to repeat all the customs of the pre Islamic times started everything and you you know, repeat all the code No, absolutely not. When whenever something was salvageable the Sharia rectified it just rectified it this is this was salvageable the Sharia needed to add certain conditions and certain guidelines and put certain limitations so that it blocks the
means that evil as much as possible while salvaging this contract because it is important is beneficial for the people
when it is not salvageable so the rip that
you know like nikka cigar for instance, you know, swap marriages
it is not salvageable repeal it Just stop it
and then who when it is right he don't do anything about it he just approve it. He just you know keep it and that that is usually the way
you know the dress to the different pre Islamic transactions habits customs norms, etc. So the Prophet sallallahu Sallam just simply said to them and ask them if you pay in advance
for use the fee guide and maloom
Okay, we know this
because we'll keep this heavy here because we'll come back to it. So important hobbies
in this chapter, man as
fat in the US left
fi k Lin maloom
How was nin
maloom
illa
had Jalen
maloom no means what? No.
Okay so known known known so man asked law he
or she who
pays in advance
pays in advance
finally use left let him do that
quarter
Yeah, well
to learn
it that means in I'm gonna do the literal translation now.
Okay and measure known measure
known measure
or when we don't use measure we still use jmeter sometimes the gallons are in
our wasn't always known what was in the weight
maloom which means known
Illa to Agilent which is term
term maloom known
Okay, well this this will be important inshallah.
So, the sixth year was set on piccoli, my ob Safar Eva Baba who will be here. So Sanam is permissible in commodities that have well defined attributes on condition that those attributes are delineated. Those attributes are delineated.
It's quantity is mentioned in terms of the unit of measurement. Whether
Do wait cubit or count
with Becca cutter who will be men who cut their be men. Caden was men that are in our
room, the timeframe is designated well seven rupee Emma, the price is paid before the separation of the buyer and the seller. So these are the conditions for a certain contract to be a valid contract. The first thing is that it is this cry bubble describable. Now, when you read the books,
there is a lot of disagreement, meaning we're not infallible these. So, the infallible part is the part in there that given the revelation, but the interpretation is not infallible. So, we want something that is precisely described, what could be precisely described, but precisely here means what, not stiffly, like it's not if he if it has to be too stiff, then it would be very hard to because they're, you know, if I can say to you,
so, this brand of dates
you have to identify the brand
you have to identify the amount
you have to identify the time of delivery, we're talking here about the brand. So, still there could be a little bit of variation that is by consensus permissible, you know, when you identify this particular brand of dates or two tons of this particular brand of wheat, that is bide by agreement by consensus permissible, but let us say you say I want you to deliver
like 2000 eggs of a particular brand of eggs. identifiable are not
so difficult I disagree. You guys disagree. disagree?
Okay, I want you to deliver and who said no here? Amani fan Malik said no.
But but the it's never consistent, but I want you to deliver 200 goats of a certain
age and a certain breed.
I want you to deliver 200 goats next year of a certain age and a certain breed
the
Yes or No?
Okay, whoever says yes is Maliki Shafi, or Hanbury and whoever said no His Highness.
But the idea here is there are certain things that they agreed on, you know,
okay. So,
a house for instance, a car building, building, can buildings be sold in a salon transaction.
Advanced payment.
Okay, you guys are outside the format.
Because buildings cannot be sold according to the format.
Because if, because the because the price of buildings will vary with location, right. And if you specify the set, if you specify the location, then that's the sale of a particular item, not a generic item that is describable that if you don't find that here, you go to the next town and get it dates, you know, the word will not run out of days. But if you're talking about a building, then in order for this to be accurately described, you have to specify the location because the price varies with location. And once you have specified the location, then you're talking about a particular item. And that to all of them cannot be selling because it's not a generic item. It's a
particular item. It's not a generic describe why this particular okay, but we will come back and say how buildings now have become sold, you know, by advance payment according to the mathematical, mathematical Islamic development of Islam.
The
International Islamic Academy that belongs to the IC Organization of Islamic Cooperation.
Okay, so they disagree what they agreed on is if something can be quantified by accurate description, the brand and accurate measure whether it's a measure of volume measure weight measure if count accurate measure, then that will be
sellable. Otherwise it will not be sellable.
What about meats? For instance, Salah boo?
Like Good,
okay, because I will tell you meat from a certain part of the animal. So I want like, basically 20 pounds of
chicken *,
Salomon wool.
Okay, well, and it's not according to the majority, but that's the controversial What if the chicken * come with bones, still, the majority would say it's sellable, if the part of the animal has been defined, so you're saying chicken breast.
Okay. So, the the first thing that we wanted to stress is what has to be accurately described precisely describe, if there is a sub brand, then that the sub brand has to be described as well, if the you know, if it is not just the brand, but like a sub brand and the sub brain has to be described, if it affects the price,
then the chief said well that could occur who and we said that you know, the quantity has to be clear, well who's seminar cover letter for Oklahoma The price is paid before the separation of the buyer and the seller and the price is paid before the separation of the buyer and the seller. So, this cry bubble all came in the definition describable here most of
the price is advanced here macadam, the theremin caught them in exchange for a price that is advanced is a cover letter for OPM before their separation, the separation of the buyer and seller here in the decision of the contract before you separate from the decision of the contract, the entire price has to be given in advance you cannot and we will come back and talk about you know exceptions here in contemporary transactions, you cannot say I will pay you the price in installments, why? Because that will make the contract at least in part, the further for the firm. And we said the further for the firm is not acceptable.
Because if you say I will pay you the price installments, and I would get the commodity next year in six months, then the two ends of the contract have been deferred here. One end of the contract has to be delivered now. Why is the Shetty are making this an issue? one end of the contract? Because why? Because the Sharia one wants to limit excessive speculation. So why are you having a contract now when the two ends of the contract are going to be deferred? Why don't you wait until at least one end of the contract and you accrue the benefit of collecting one end of the contract when someone accrues the benefit of collecting money in the contract. But why are you like agreeing on a
contract when you are deferring both ends of the transaction. Now we will come back and talk about the manufacturing contract and the exceptions when it comes to the manufacturing contract in this regard
then the chief said
Is everything clear so far? No. Okay, what is not clear.
It's it's, it's good to be honest, I was not clear.
Reserve like and I put a deposit on it and we will come to this it's male or bone it's it's a different story we will come to this reservation and deposit This is a different sort of different scenario altogether. And we will come to
attention on the future
contracts for services
that we talked about, but that is not that's not the base
and we will talk about any data that's coming in you know, I'm talking about any problem with what I said here. Okay. All right so far good. And then the chief said we're using a certain feature
for a coffee cart module.
Sometimes it is permissible in situations where the commodity is received as separate batches on pre defined dates. So there is no problem in in receiving in the delivery of the commodity being in batches
the price has to be delivered the old together at the time of the country, but I can ask you for like 200 pounds of chicken * 50 pounds every month for next for the next four months 50 pounds of chicken * on the first of every month for the next four months Is that okay? Yes, it is okay. So, you could divide the delivery of the commodity you cannot divide the delivery of the price.
When s&m feminine were hidden feature a millimeter is hard to buy in a seminar called Legion seminoma it is not permissible to pay one price for two commodities in advance unless the price of each commodity is made clear. So, he like you cannot say you cannot because this is a contract that is subject to creating or that may result bring about contention disputes conflict so everything has to be very defined and clear. So you cannot say I will give you $2,000 for 200 pounds of chicken * and 100 pounds of goat meat or something because that will result in a problem What if I were unable to deliver one of the two items that will cancel the whole deal and unless I say you
know $50 for 200 pounds of chicken breast and $50 for 100 pounds of goat meat and in this case everything is clear that's what he wants to say.
Then woman asking FHA in let me assume he will ever buy something on the basis of setup should not change the deal to something else should not change the deal to something else. It is a very sort of limited
transaction as
limited transaction very stiff transaction.
So you cannot say you cannot say that okay, I did not find that a so I'll get you oranges
you have to give the money back if you were completely unable that that sale cannot be tinkered with you cannot basically play with that sale
it is just like very stiff you either deliver it the way it was agreed on or you can pay the price back that's it the you know that you cannot switch the commodity from one thing to another
well I'm gonna obey all popular property and however be
it is not permissible to sell what one buys through a sell off transaction before receiving it or to use it in debt transfer and we will have a chapter on that transfer
Columbia does not obey a couple of the he like you
okay
like he wanted
okay 200 pounds of chicken *.
Chicken * is controversial By the way, but then the how many men have it's okay?
Not Not Not chicken breast to eat chicken breast. Subarus, okay, according to all but you know, in terms of selling.
So we could probably use like wheat or something that's agreed upon by consensus. Anyway, but let's say 200 pounds of chicken breast
And then
you cannot, you cannot say and then you will receive the chicken * April 2019.
You already paid the price.
You can go around and sell the 200 pounds before you receive them.
But can you make another selling transaction and it would not be about those chicken * that will be delivered on that day it will be just about 200 pounds of chicken breast.
Not these 200 pounds of chicken * but 200 pounds of chicken *. Can you do that? Yes.
Because it would just be another transaction This is not a particular.
Yes. Yeah. Because Because at the end of the day, it has to be something deliverable has cannot be a particular item. But something that is describable and deliverable. And it the FDA also making the condition that it is commonly found around the time of the delivery in your particular town or or neighboring towns, something that is deliverable, describable and deliverable. So here, I will not sell these 200 pounds of chicken *, but I will sell 200 pounds of chicken * Yes.
Or chairs a different story altogether. Let's stick with the chicken breast.
Chicken breast.
Yes, yes, yes. Even if you don't have that in your possession already.
Yes, because what we began and what we said in the beginning letter, the MLA sign deck do not sell that which you do not possess refers to particular items, not generic items that are describable and deliverable. Not generic items. 200 tons of cotton, Egyptian cotton. We're not talking about any particular Egyptian. Even the prefaces, Allen was once approached by a Jew who said to him, like, you know,
send me You know, these particular or or I'll tell you these particular these particular orange or these have no not particular origin, just days, you know, so it has to be something generic not coming from a specific farm, because who guarantees for you that that specific farm would actually the producer of that specific farm will be good and deliverable on that date? generic describable can get it from anywhere.
Okay, and then we'll come back and talk about can cars be generic? And I let me finish and then I'll take the rest of the question. Then the SEC said well I'm using obey a couple of property he went on however he and it cannot be used in that transfer cannot be used at the transfer. Now.
Who is the we have two parties we have the buyer and the seller. The buyer is the one who paid the price. The seller, even though the price
you know sometimes the the price could be the commodity But anyways, forget about this. But the buyer and the seller, so the buyer is the one who paid the price. And so the buyer cannot say
to someone else, however he did transfer, the buyer owes something to somebody, you know owes 200 pounds of chicken breast to somebody. The buyer cannot say to that somebody go get your 200 chicken * from the seller.
Okay, I'm expecting 200 pounds of chicken * in April. But I from x, but I owe y 200 pounds of chicken *. I cannot go to y and tell him get your 200 pounds of chicken * from x.
Now the seller, the seller
here may not be able to tell me as a buyer, I owe you 200 pounds of chicken *. No Go get the 200 pounds of chicken * from Mohammed.
That is according to the
that is according to the vast majority.
Everytime era more or less said you could do it in both cases because that is not seen a
That's that is the fair, it's not very viewed, it is the hook, if the
shackle is them,
these are this is basically fulfillment of payment. This is not seen of debts, this is fulfillment of payments, and it will result in a win win situation, someone will be free of the liability of that. And if y accepts that take his 200 pounds of chicken * from x, then there should be no reason that we
stop this. But in the authorized position and the handling method, it is not permitted. Because in the authorized position in the harmony method, they say that that transfer is only permissible in established debts as selam debt is subject to unemployment, therefore SLM debt is not an established that it is subject to fast subject to anonymous cancellation, therefore, it would not be permissible anyway, it's controversial, but the vast majority said you cannot do the transfer of us. How can I be your ally even?
Anyway, so then the sheikh said with the juicer, the canopy of ivaldi, the NFS, however, we can do the transfer, we can sell it, we can do, we can change it, we can change the commodity, it's a very safe country, you deliver that item, or you can sell. He said here he talks here about cancellation. He said, however cancellation upon request from the other party of the whole sale or part of it is permissible, because it is a form of annulment.
This is not the transfer. This is not a new contract. This is not a sale, they just announcement. Basically, we were unable to deliver this, or we they just decided to cancel this.
You wanted to cancel the transaction, I agreed to canceling the transaction. What is done in this case, you're getting the money back to me the same money or the like, or the value, same like value. It's not the same. Like if it's not the like, it's the value. Yes.
10%
cancellation fees?
No, it's not okay, in this context. But but but
you know, contemporary transactions, they talk about whether the cancellation fees or administrative fees or not, it's a there's a different discussion about
administrative fees and when they would be permissible, and when they would not be permissible. But in a say, in a salon transaction, you know, you return the same price, or part of the price if the cancellation applies to part of the state, even cancellation of part of the sale, because it's a very stiff contract in the hand. Many men have disagreed over the possibility of canceling part of the say, like I have here, you know, 200 pounds of chicken *, and I paid you $100 waiting for my 200 pounds of chicken *. Can I can sell 50 pounds of chicken * or 100 pounds of chicken * and get 50 back $50 back. Can I do that? There's controversial some of the somebody
said no, you take it all over the middle is the sale has to be the terms of the same have to be respected until the fulfillment of the contract or nothing.
You return all the price back but the the authorize the view and the method is that you could do this because it is basically it's very defined, you know, these are 200 pounds for $100 I'm gonna take only 100 pounds for $50 and, you know, get my the other $50 back can sell them transactions then apply to buildings.
No, he said no. But
he said yes. Okay. Yeah, you're outside of the former's.
Huh?
Key building requires specifying a Salomon's generic, generic commodity
That is describable and deliverable on the data of the execution of the contract, the fulfillment of the contract at building has to be the location of the building has to be specified, right?
Because that is the most important part about the building the price of the building the location, once you specify the location of the building, are you talking about a generic commodity here, or a specific commodity specific amount, you cannot sell a specific commodity.
That's the whole thing about medicine that don't sell that which you do not possess. That's the whole thing.
But let me give you the gist. And then we'll open it for questions. But the idea here is when it comes to the contemporary buildings, contemporary buildings, the scholars have said that we will consider this it will not be okay according to any one of the 40 memes by the way. So, when you go and buy an apartment, in your home country or buy apartment in like some place here, one of the sort of the complexes whenever you buy an apartment, apartment is not even there yet. And you
buy, use you pay installments until the apartment is ready. You know, on April 20, April 2020, the apartment will be ready. You're buying installments from now until the apartment is ready. That here, okay. So that looks like a solid transaction. Except that you cannot pay in installments, you have to pay the price all at once at the beginning. And except that if it is an apartment that has a designated place, you're talking about a specific commodity or another generic commodity. apartments are not generic commodity once you specify the location, they're not a generic commodity. Well,
after this, this northern manufacturing contract, according to the majority is a form of SLM contract according to the member hanifa. He said no, it is not a form of a certain contract. It's a special contract manufacturing, because it requires not the delivery just the delivery of a generic product that can be bought from anywhere now you want to deliver it. There is manufacturing involved making get involved, you're making shoes, you're making a building, you're building a building. So there is so this is a specific type of contract that is not like a sudden contract accepted remember hanifa said once you once you specify a date of delivery, it becomes a sudden contract and then we
will have the same problems again. So, remember hanifa here will join once you specify a specific time for delivery, it becomes a sort of contract, and then we cannot use the position of Mr. hanifa to justify or hydrolyze that particular transaction.
But we will be able to use the position of remember use of who was one and Mohammed and Hassan who were the disciples of imago hanifa they said that even if you specify a date, that manufacturing contract does not turn into a solemn contract, it continues to be a manufacturing contract that does not have all the limitation and this limitations in the stiffness of the Southern contract. So according to abusive Mr. Hansen, the assembly decided that this particular transaction is permissible. However, you have to avoid all sources of contention in this transaction, the apartment has everything about the apartment there has to be clear and asked to be detailed, can cars be sold
in salon transactions?
Yes, but what would be the conditions in this case?
detailed description of the brands that make the model the year you know and it has to be new cars
is the brand of the make the model the options, even the color? Because can the color you know, can the prices vary with color? Yes, they can vary with color, everything that will have an impact on the price has to be detailed in the contract. And in this case, it would be okay because it would be a generic item deliverable. And so, the idea here is what we understand that from the poker another particular examples, you know, whether that whether meat or eggs or this or that, we want to understand the principle. The principle here is that
They wanted something that is precisely describable to avoid the hella, you know which is
deficient knowledge of what you will be expecting and to avoid contention and avoid undue risk taking and avoid contention and disputes in the future that will bring us to the end of this chapter on salom. We will take seven minutes for people to leave inshallah, and then we will entertain all of your questions. After that we entertain the if there are any questions online we will entertain them first. And then we will take questions from the crowd and Sean