Hatem al-Haj – Fiqh of Transactions #4 – Usury and Interest

Hatem al-Haj
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The conversation is difficult to follow, but the speakers discuss various topics such as river, river pictures, and the use of water. They also talk about effective approaches to transactions and emphasize the importance of reporting and the Hanbury M meantime. The conversation is difficult to summarize and the focus is on the health of the country. The speakers discuss gold and silver commodities, gold and silver being traded for other commodities, and the potential for revenue and savings from a business deal. The conversation is difficult to follow and difficult to understand.

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			Yo
		
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			mama to proceed. So, today inshallah we will go over the chapter on usury interest rate
		
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			or the complexity of this chapter starts from the very translation is it usually is it interest? How
do you translate ribbon that, you know, starts to be complex from the beginning here
		
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			Riba is not necessarily charging interest because we will address that we will come to see that
there are different types of labor, there is ribbon fabula, which is the river of increase there is
rebellion that the river of exchange and there is Riba and a CL which is there above the firmament
		
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			and that is usually where interest may be applicable.
		
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			But
		
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			and also whenever it comes to interest, it is not just,
		
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			you know when you when you translate three, but as Usually, the The problem here is that usually in
English means exorbitant interest, it means excessive interest, that does not mean interest. Whereas
in Islam Riba is not only when the interest is exorbitant or anything, it is any,
		
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			any benefit that the lender accrues from the transaction is considered to the river, even if it is
minimal benefit is considered rubber. Like if you if I give you $5,000, and you come back, you know,
and if I expect that you bring me the $5,000 in a briefcase, next year, that is ribbon.
		
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			So, if I tell you, here's $5,000, but when you come back, I mean, if you bring them back in a
briefcase, That's nice of you, and that is fine, you know,
		
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			that is fine, unless it is so premeditated.
		
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			But if, but if I tell you here is $5,000, for one year, like it's alone for one year, when you when
you bring it back, just
		
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			bring it back in a briefcase, or someday
		
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			or anything, you know, like, put it inside anything that any benefit would be considered the rebel
because the hobbyists which, you know, not necessarily established as a hobbyist, but the Mulligan
Maxim is called low carbon zorana found forever, every loan that brings about benefits, or results
in benefit that is benefit that the lender accrues or the benefit for the lender.
		
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			And also, you know, you have to put between brackets here where the benefit, because certainly when
you give a loan to someone, you get an enormous benefit. But it is the sort of sort of afterlife in
the afterlife, you get like a reward, large reward and a lot of pleasure. And that is the greatest
benefit that we're talking about wherever the benefit here, so called no carbons or an offer forever
every loan that we're bringing about
		
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			where the material benefit, maybe is is rubber. Because you could you know the like it basically it
improves the relationship between people that's a benefit in this world. But we're talking about
material worthy benefit. So, in this case, labor is not only about excessive interest, it is about
interest any benefit that you accrue from loaning money, because loan should be a completely
benevolent non for profit transaction giving loans should be a completely completely benevolent non
for profit transaction.
		
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			Any transaction that was the that is expected basically to earn your profit should not should be
		
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			sort of a risk taking transaction of risk taking transaction, there should be liability as we said
in the previous chapter, but demand, profit and liability go hand in hand. Profit and liability go
hand in hand profit follows liability if there is no liability, there is no profit. So it should be
an investment risk taking investment, where you could expect some
		
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			benefit some profit, but if it is not, if you're not if there is no risk taking because alone is not
there. There is some risk taking but the money is guaranteed right? The money is guaranteed
feasible.
		
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			Medina how
		
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			the money is guaranteed at least to the borrower is liable for the money. The borrower is legally
liable for this money to return it back to you without any loss. If the borrower takes this money
and invests in any undertaking or any business venture had loses all of it, that is not your
responsibility. You gave them a loan, you get your money back. That is not your simultaneously. If
you're not liable for any loss. You're not entitled to any profit. You're not entitled to any profit
because the profit should follow liability coverage but the man so that is clear. So the CIF Rahim
Allah tala demandgen Kodama, Allah tala said Baba Riba chapter on Riba usury slash interest and the
		
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			money started by this hadith.
		
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			But before we go over the Hadith, so is river halal or haram
		
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			because the routing is important,
		
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			you know,
		
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			linguistically river means increase but technically a river is haram river you know, all for all
different types of Riba are haraam everybody up the river of exchange river fund the river of
increased ribbon the sia river of deferment, all types of river that we will discuss later are haram
and also it is like waging war against Allah subhanaw taala.
		
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			phenom tufaro has done over 100 women on mahira soda, tequila terranova, documentary a
		
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			documentary or your belief here Allah and leave
		
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			whatever remains
		
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			of the river of interest, leave off the interest or give up the interest that you are entitled to,
from your revenue transactions came down when they were involved in rabid transactions. And Allah
subhanaw taala said to them otaku
		
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			Riba and give up whatever remains for you, like
		
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			who the interest that you are entitled to conduct now.
		
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			So as if the idea came to retrospectively avoid all the rubber transactions and only entitle them to
their capital.
		
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			Because once this prohibition came down, if they were entitled to a certain amount of interest, the
I came to tell them,
		
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			give it up, don't take it.
		
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			And the eye award the Allah subhanaw taala warned them that if they don't fit into thought of as an
ally or a soda, and if you don't desist from charging interest or taking the interest that you were
entitled to
		
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			then
		
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			be warned of a war against you by Allah and His messenger. No one is up to this. The second thing
that is important here is that the prophet SAW said I'm gonna have it reported by a Muslim from
Jabba the line who said on a level accurate river were more kid who was a he they he worked at a
table. And in some reports, Carla Humphries Misawa, they are equal in sin. Mayor locker is the one
who devours the labor devours interest, the one who feeds it to him, or gives it
		
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			to them. And the two witnesses and describe the one who will write the contract and the two
witnesses. And in some reports, the prophets are seldom said they are equal and sin.
		
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			They are equal instead. And that is basically to discourage people and
		
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			emphasize the gravity of the sin that has emphasized the gravity of the sin. So that's the ruling of
Riba in general it is one of the enormities one of the
		
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			events, the sheikh said on how bad of an Islamic kata kata Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam para
salatu salam has that was that was a little bit further, where Alberto Burri was Cyrus I agree with
Tamra with tamari, while men have been men hayleigh to six, Mr. And Mr. Lin So
		
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			Mr. endemicity saw
		
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			us not for beer okay and can I help
		
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			biard semenza I was Dada Arbor okay. So, this is important now to understand this so he said and
that is the hub which is gold for gold
		
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			or gold the paid for by gold
		
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			silver for silver
		
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			and then we
		
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			for weeds are paid for by wheat
		
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			and barley
		
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			paid for by barley
		
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			and Tom are they it's
		
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			paid for by dates
		
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			and how sold
		
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			paid for by soul
		
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			the profits are sad I'm sad Mifflin Demis linser and bisola which is equal for equal
		
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			Same for same equal for equal
		
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			y which means what or come back to it but he said for is heavy enough
		
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			and if they are different when he said the bureau gave us a term then you know trade as as you like
in Can I have no idea if it is hand to hand an immediate transaction not a deferred transaction hand
to hand and immediate transaction not a deferred transaction.
		
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			So he is the profit of Solomon Sterling has that there are two issues here to pay attention to which
is equal for equal then that was in reference to whatever father the variable of increase
		
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			if you sell gold for gold,
		
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			they have to be the same way.
		
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			Equal for equal here means same way.
		
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			Because gold is usually measured by way, silver for silver has to be the same way.
		
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			These four have to be the same volume, because it's usually measured by carrier not by weight by
volume, not by weight, or usually meaning the word during the time of the Prophet sallallahu.
		
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			So these were measuring the by volume not by weight.
		
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			And these were measured by weight.
		
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			These were measured by volume, these were measured by weight, which which is consequential
		
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			it's very consequential Okay, so he said
		
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			Mr. endemicity answer and so that's not for VR.
		
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			In Canada he hadn't beard. Now equal for equal and hand to hand.
		
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			We will come back and talk about whether
		
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			to strike because how to approach this as important should we talk about the headline now the
effective cause and whatever
		
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			you know
		
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			should we talk about
		
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			actually thought of this last night and I'm not you know thought of the the approach to this because
it is important.
		
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			Maybe we should talk about the effective clause.
		
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			Okay, let's talk about the effects of course. So, these are called the Rebbe we which means you're
curious
		
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			items. These are injurious items, objects of sale, six of them.
		
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			By agreement, these are called derryberry items. By agreement These are called the Riba we use
europaeus items. These six here. So gold, silver, wheat, barley dates and sold
		
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			by agreement by agreement
		
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			things outside of these things like things that are
		
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			okay. Except for the Harry's though Harry's that, that is it is only the six that are considered
usurious items. But the rest of the people who employ PS or employee analogy said that there are
effective causes behind these beanies, various items. And whatever here is the effective cause or
the idol of the prohibition will also be a jury as it will also be a serious item. Now, we can't
really do this in like very comparatively, we will have to have a lot of sort of a base and our base
will be obviously the hungry mother artists the book. Okay.
		
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			So, in the Hanbury mess up and it is a beautiful base because I'm very much like usual they have
different opinions, one opinion would be like the Hanafi is one opinion will be another one opinion
will be like the sapphires. So we will not miss out on on much here.
		
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			So in the Hanbury, mez hub, there are three different opinions concerning the effective clause. Why
are these considered usurious items and when we say usually as items, it means what it means trading
those items will be more complicated, you have to trade them with caution, because there are certain
stringent criteria to be applied when you trade them. And all of this we're talking about the type
of rebar that is rebar of sales, because there are two different types of Ribbon Ribbon of sales and
the ribbon of loans.
		
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			A neighbor of loans is straightforward. And that is what you guys are interested in hearing about.
		
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			Because all of this stuff is is technical stuff that you may not encounter. But certainly there are
benefits of learning it.
		
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			But the river of loans is very easy the river of loans is when you expect a benefit from wherever
the material benefit from giving someone a loan. This is an event nicey nicey means deferment. This
is where you charge an interest in exchange for the deferment of payment, right? You charge an
interest for in exchange for the deferment of payment. This is called the type of loans This is
straightforward that there is no problem in this way it can be done now with the lecture.
		
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			Right? Okay, having said that, you know, this lecture could take five or six hours.
		
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			Because now let's talk about the labor of sales. Labor of sales applies to usually as items
		
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			and anything that shares the effective cars with the curious items. And it applies to
		
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			journalists as well, things that are of the same kind than the same benefits and how do you create
things of the same kind than the same benefit, but that also apply that is also one of the effective
causes of the prohibition
		
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			of the stringency in dealing with the various items and we will come to it. So, the river of sales,
		
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			sometimes you will have to trade the items equal for equal
		
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			and
		
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			all the time you will have to trade them hand to hand if they are labor, we have items of the same
group and we will come back and talk about this. But
		
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			the handy dandy maths hub, what did the Hanbury say about the effective clause behind the
prohibition here and the prohibition here like I said, they have three different opinions. One
opinion says that the reason why these are considered to be usurious is that they are measured by
weight. Gold is measured by weight here, you know, talk about opiate stuff, these are weights,
		
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			silver is measured by weight.
		
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			And that is that would that is the commonality between gold and silver. That is why they are
		
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			because when they look for the effective cause, they look for commonalities and is there also some
suitability to assigning This
		
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			is also some suitability because there has to be some suitability just can cannot be any sort of
extraneous quality that is completely irrelevant. It's called was photography, inconsequential
attribute or inconsequential quality. There has to be some suitability
		
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			Is there any suitability in considering the effective cause behind calling these Reba we items that
they are measured by weight? Yes, they will tell you that to measure the by weight, may or measure
the by volume here, the fact that something is measured by weight and misery by volume leads to
		
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			rubber because they are the quantifiable measurable. So, if I tell you, for example
		
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			70 this laptop for this desk, you know, I'll give you the you know, give me this laptop now, I'll
give you this this next month.
		
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			Is river obvious here. not obvious, but I'll tell you give me
		
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			four kilograms of silver and I will give you six kilograms of silver next month, problematic.
		
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			Okay, why? Because the fact that they are measurable by made fungible in general, fungible items in
general with that are measured by weight and measured by volume can be used like currency, you know,
in that sense, and in that sense, the river would apply to them, because they're fungible, and
they're measurable, they are measurable versus the laptop for the desk, okay. So, there is some
suitability in the scholars talking about, you know, the idea being that they are measurable by
weight, because you could say for for six, you could say four kilos of silver now, six kilo grams of
silver in one month,
		
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			here, the hanbali said, when it comes to these, that they are measurable by volume and that is dial.
So, the idea is weight here and it is volume here, weight here and volume here.
		
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			So, anything that is measurable by weight or measurable by volume, in this case, would be ariba. We
item and we will add to this anything else,
		
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			they did not they did not consider this idea of being foods these are all foods right? They they
ignore that they ignore that
		
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			and they only looked at them being measurable by by volume. So, they will include things like cotton
for instance if cotton is miserable by volume, they would include this not garments but cotton You
know, when you harvest it, if it is miserable by volume, they will include this and they will
include anything that is measurable by volume. This by the way, this idea of the idea being that
they are measurable by weight or volume is also the Hanafi method. It is also the Hanafi method. And
that is the more popular view in the Hanbury method. And it is consistent with the Hanafi method.
They also talk about weight and volume measurable by weight and measurable by volume. Now, the
		
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			second opinion and the Hanbury method. You see the VA Harry's they just checked out and they're
they're having fun now I don't have to worry about any of those. They say that this is only six
items. bs is not applicable here.
		
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			Yes,
		
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			unfortunately, yes, it looks like they wouldn't. But but anyway.
		
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			But But then we will come back to it. We'll come back to it. But then
		
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			the second opinion and the Hanbury must have the second opinion how many Meza they're saying, Wait a
second, no, one second, golden silver, there is something more to gold and silver than just being
miserable by weight, something that is even more suitable to be diala than being measurable by
weight. Gold and Silver are currencies, they are prices for other commodities, they are f man
summon, they are prices for other commodities, they are the standardized prices for other
commodities. So since they are f men, this feminine year, being prices of other commodities, being
currencies is the effective cause here is the reason why they are usually as items in Hong Kong law,
		
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			the reason why they are injurious items. So they said
		
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			When it comes to gold and silver, the fact that the our prices are as man the money is the reason.
So, this is number one, this is the opinion number two, when it comes to these when it comes to okay
and here who agrees with them here the medic is interface. So, plus m plus s medic is interface
would agree with them that it is the prices the fact that they are prices or currencies is what
makes them
		
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			you know, usually has items, but about a year.
		
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			Then, when it comes to these now, when it comes to these four, there are a second opinion is pretty
much in agreement with the chef or the opinion that these four that these four are
		
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			you know Reba we can we will come back and talk and that is you know my you know my hesitation is
that they wanted to first say what applies to these before it gets every talk about the effect of
clauses, when it comes to the ruling the equal for equal and handsome, but in general, just the fact
that they have more stringent criteria and in trading them that is what it means. That is what being
rebel means. They said these four, these four are Reba we because they are not all math. They are
foodstuff,
		
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			foodstuff
		
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			and who would agree with them here, the sapphires. The Maliki's will need to add food that is stored
and that is mocked at staples of food that are non perishable staple food for the Maliki's. But for
the shafa is just food, just food in general. Okay, and that is the second opinion for the hand
berries, what would be the third the opinion for the ham berries here?
		
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			The third opinion for the ham buddies, they will say no, it is not just to be in food. And that is
the opinion that email epidemic shows here in London. They say it is not just being food, it is
being food that is measurable by weight or volume, food that is measurable by weight or volume, and
that would be their third possession.
		
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			So keep this here
		
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			as prices, and this here would be food
		
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			that is measurable by weight or volume.
		
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			So in this case, if you add food that is measurable by weight or volume, but you add staples of food
to bring the malakian on board, you bring you know non perishable staples or food to bring the medic
is on board. If you say non perishable staples of food that are measurable by weight or volume, that
will be the agreement of the format that he has. These will be rare but we know none of the farmers
that have will disagree with this, only the varieties will disagree because they don't they say it's
only the six items. Okay, but if you say non perishable staples or food measurable by weight or
volume with America's contest now because we gave you what you what you're looking for, per non
		
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			perishable staples. With the Sharpies contest No, we gave you the food that you're looking for with
the HANA fees contracts will give you the measurable by weight and volume that you're looking for.
So everybody will be in agreement here that these would be injurious items. But what about, you
know, food that is not measurable by weight or volume? What about pomegranates? What about
watermelons? They're usually they used to be measured by count, not weight or volume. What about
those? No, they're not terrible. They're not injuries. So can you then send one watermelon for two
watermelons? Yes, you can. Yes, you can. The shaft is would disagree because for the shaft a
		
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			foodstuff in general. I think the shaft is would disagree because it is just for this refrigerator
that the Maliki's will say watermelons are not mocked at animada
		
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			they are not non perishable staples of food. The honeyberries will say that they are not measurable
measure the by weight or volume. So that is where the this agreement takes place.
		
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			But in general to get this this idea because what you know what we will add to these six items will
now depend on this understanding what is the ILO what is the effective cause behind calling these
usually as items or rebellion, usurious items or rebellion. So, let us think of the laptop the
laptop usurious
		
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			car
		
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			okay
		
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			tags
		
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			depends, you know that they are its foodstuff, but again at the same time they're, they're sold by
count.
		
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			So, not sold and not miserable by way
		
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			shoes
		
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			Okay, so what about cash?
		
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			Okay.
		
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			Yes, according to the majority here, according to the majority, what is the majority here? It would
be medic ease shafa is one report. That's not the stronger report anyway. And the Hanbury Meza
somatic is shafa is one report that's not the stronger report and the Hanbury mas hub
		
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			that is basically
		
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			but there is there is there is another
		
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			issue here that
		
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			what if they are not Reba because let's get this out of the way I think we should they get this out
of the way What if they are naturally, whatever they are, let's say cash, but they have two
journals, they are they have similarity? similarity
		
00:31:58 --> 00:32:09
			and they are not riverway we agree that they are not the GP you can't add them to these six items,
but they have two journals. Then if they have to Janos
		
00:32:10 --> 00:32:55
			cash in particular was called you know, or flus whatever for lose what would be like cash now, it is
none sort of it is currency that is not made out of gold and silver that they used to have, during
these times. Those who lose they did not give them the rulings of golden silver. But again, at the
same time, the hanbali said that you there is no increase with deferment, and that would be the
position of the HANA fees as well. The position of the HANA fees as well is that there is no
increase with the Fermin and the apply this to any two items that are similar to each other, like
		
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			any two items that are similar to each other, like shares shall for like a goat for two goats a goat
		
00:33:06 --> 00:33:07
			for two goats.
		
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			Can you do this with a goat for two goats with deferment? Hi, goat now for two goats
		
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			in one month, Is this okay?
		
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			a goat now for two goats in one month. Is this okay?
		
00:33:30 --> 00:33:42
			not okay. Right? So if you got this by sort of the sense it doesn't feel right, right? It is okay
according to the Maliki's and the Sharpies
		
00:33:43 --> 00:33:47
			because our goals usually as items
		
00:33:50 --> 00:34:18
			go to a much easier as items are they they're not so good It's like an animal we're not talking
about even what we're not talking about meat here we're talking about an animal living animal gold
for gold to gold for two goats. These are not usually as items monarchies and sapphires would say
yes in fact that they will support their their position by reports from the Sahaba who used to sell
one camel for four camels and so on. You know one camel immediately for four gallons per liter and
so on.
		
00:34:20 --> 00:34:28
			Now, the Americans and Chinese will say okay, the ham bellies will say okay as well.
		
00:34:29 --> 00:34:59
			The ham bodies will say okay as well. But the magic is where when we'll pull out from this agreement
when when this goal is just like this These goals. So akula Hulu bass are like the they have the
same benefits uses the two items the two objects have say and have the same benefits or uses. So the
mannequin will leave room for you know two items being called the same thing but they are not really
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:06
			Similar to laptops, you know, at, you know, HP and hospital.
		
00:35:07 --> 00:35:24
			So the mannequins will come and say here, they don't have the same uses. They're called laptops,
these are both laptops, they don't have the same qualities. So, the Americans will say, if these
goals are just like these goals, then this arrangement is not permissible.
		
00:35:25 --> 00:35:28
			This arrangement would not be permissible.
		
00:35:30 --> 00:35:36
			So, according to the weaker report in the hand in hand and
		
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42
			no, not, actually it is not.
		
00:35:54 --> 00:36:02
			Okay, the two reports on the hunt any method here, I'm not I'm blanking out here on the stronger and
the weaker report, but,
		
00:36:06 --> 00:36:27
			but I would say that it is it is actually a capitole here plus h plus m only, only m with this
contingency, that these goals are exactly like these goals are exactly like these goals. So, m with
this contingency,
		
00:36:28 --> 00:36:33
			they will say that this trade is not
		
00:36:35 --> 00:37:19
			is not acceptable. The shafa is are the ones who will continue all the way like sort of to find this
trade acceptable to find this rate acceptable, then the majority here, even if cash is not usually
as if cash is not usually Yes, but there is the journalists there is similarity here, then the
majority would still say that cash, the obvious majority will stay safe say here that cash cannot be
traded for cash with deferment and increase with deferment and increase
		
00:37:20 --> 00:37:29
			if you say if you say that cash does not take the same ruling of
		
00:37:30 --> 00:38:06
			that cache does not take the same ruling of gold and silver because the island is not being prices,
has the magic ease and shafa ease and the lesson report and the Hanbury mother have said so, you say
that cache is not unusual for years and then you switch from being hanafy there to be in chapter
here and say and the shafali said that non usurious items can be traded for each other with the
ferment and increase. So good
		
00:38:07 --> 00:38:17
			for two goats is okay then you can trade 10 pounds for 12 animals
		
00:38:19 --> 00:39:00
			that would be disastrous, right because that that will basically hit as the sort of the foundation
of Riba itself Riba would become basically not applicable anymore. The chapter of Riba may not be
interesting to study and will lose its relevance, because no one is using gold for gold or silver
for silver you people are usually using cash now as the standard currency. So, if you say that 10
now for 12 later is permissible, you could actually get there.
		
00:39:02 --> 00:39:18
			You could you could get to that conclusion, while being compliant, consistent with one of them as I
have throughout but it will require some switching and some patchwork
		
00:39:19 --> 00:39:35
			so that you can come to this conclusion. So when it comes to the idler, it seems that we really have
to consider the idle here and that is the position of most of the contemporary hand bodies.
		
00:39:36 --> 00:39:59
			And the vast majority of contemporary scholars in general, that the idea behind these being used
various items gold and silver, being used various items is what they are prices. It's not that they
are measured by weight, that they are prices of other items. Price
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:38
			currencies that are used standard currencies that are used for purchase of other items. That is the
position of the majority in the past because it is Maliki's shaft is and 100 value report, even
though it's not the stronger versus the position of the Hanna fees and the stronger hand body report
that they are measured by weight, but the ham bodies were divided here. So, we gave some more weight
to the medic and safaree position versus the Hanafi position in considering
		
00:40:40 --> 00:40:42
			the idea here to be prices
		
00:40:43 --> 00:41:11
			regardless of the old this agreement has I said once we start to say that the idea here is not that
they are prices not that they are currencies, we will end up in trouble has a whole chapter of
rubber and we will have a lot of confusion with a whole chapter of rubber and most hero and it's It
is not like we we like hardship or we like to make things
		
00:41:13 --> 00:41:23
			you know difficult for people. But honestly speaking most of the banking like industry and
transactions will be fine
		
00:41:24 --> 00:41:48
			because cash will not be subject to the stringency that was which these items are treated cash will
not be subject to the stringency with which these items are treated. Now, I want to say because it
is important here that the Prophet sallallahu Sallam when he talked about those items, he said
		
00:41:49 --> 00:42:07
			phase of setup and happiness not for bureaucracy. So, when can I have no idea if these items are
different, then you may sell as you'd like as long as it is hand to hand if telephones heavier as
long as these items are different meaning gold for silver.
		
00:42:09 --> 00:42:09
			Okay.
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:18
			Meaning wheat for barley. Right, meaning wheat for sold.
		
00:42:19 --> 00:42:30
			There they are not the same kind, then for beer. Okay, officiating. Zana does not have to be equal
for equal does not have to be equal for equal obviously, does not have to be equal for equal.
		
00:42:31 --> 00:42:46
			But he said in Canada did have the share the same effective clause of prohibition, they have to be
hand to hand. So, we said gold and silver by agreement share the same effective cause of prohibition
right.
		
00:42:48 --> 00:43:03
			These four share the same effective cause of prohibition. So, one item from this group and whatever
you would add to this group, whatever you add to this group here, one item from this group
		
00:43:05 --> 00:43:09
			cannot be traded for the other item from this group within this group.
		
00:43:11 --> 00:43:32
			Except hand to hand it has to be hand to hand no different hand to hand, immediate transaction, no
deferment, but it does not have to be equal for equal that because if it is not hand to hand, it's
called did it but he had, which is the river of exchange, you know, failing to immediately exchange
the two items.
		
00:43:36 --> 00:43:44
			Now, between these two groups between these two groups, so gold for weed,
		
00:43:45 --> 00:43:49
			gold for weed between these two groups?
		
00:43:50 --> 00:43:52
			Does it have to be hand to hand?
		
00:43:54 --> 00:43:55
			No, it does not have
		
00:43:57 --> 00:44:51
			between one from this group and unreal, but we're not usurious. It doesn't have to be hand to hand.
No. So it doesn't have to be equal for equal doesn't have to be hand to hand. What if you can sit
there go the ends silver the ELA in the provision of goal of the ELA in calling golden silver
usurious whatever you consider this not to be that they are prices, but to be that they are measured
by weight. Can you exchange something else that is measured by wait for golden silver was deferment?
Yes, even the people who say that they are that they share the same Angela the cell said Ellen Naka
in except for the two currencies. You could always because by agreement, by agreement, gold and
		
00:44:51 --> 00:45:00
			silver can be traded for other commodities. In the so called by I'll add them which is deferred
payment transactions are simple.
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:34
			And buy sell them which is advanced payment transactions or sales advanced payment transactions by
agreement gold and silver can be prices for other commodities any other commodities, whether they
are measured by weight or not. So, is that clear, so, always gold and silver for for other than gold
and silver and certainly other than cash because cash is like gold and several Indian currency
currencies in general can be traded for other items
		
00:45:36 --> 00:45:50
			with the ferment the ferment and increase among themselves that group of items among themselves No,
they have to be an immediate transaction. So, you cannot buy gold
		
00:45:52 --> 00:46:09
			and pay later you cannot buy gold installments, you cannot buy gold with a deferred deferred payment
plan that is not permissible. Why because they all share the same idea of being prices.
		
00:46:10 --> 00:46:25
			But if the IRA was Wait, you still can buy things that are measured by weight and pay for them pay
gold for them or cash in the form of payments or installments.
		
00:46:31 --> 00:46:31
			Okay.
		
00:46:35 --> 00:47:05
			But what makes you know, so we understand the redundancy and we understand the wisdoms behind the
prohibition of redundancy or deferment that it will result in exploitation of the poor in widening
the social the socio economic strata in the society. In money begets money, which causes the economy
to slow down it gives strength or value to capital against labor, it will result in being being lazy
to
		
00:47:06 --> 00:47:52
			take part in real business ventures, if money can be get money. And if I just put my money and get
guaranteed interest guaranteed, you know, pay back, why would I risk my money in a in a true real
business venture on the ground. And all of these are hand desirable outcomes. But the Sherry I
wanted to fight, actually, I wanted to fight the exploitation of the poor, because interest could
put them in a vicious cycle that would end up in their bankruptcy, that's really I wanted to fight
the extreme widening of the socio economic strata, the extreme not the presence of socio economic
strata or anything, but the extreme widening, where the poor become really much poorer, and the rich
		
00:47:52 --> 00:48:45
			become much richer, just by the fact that they own the capital, the capital itself brings income for
them, without them doing anything, you know, the cover, so they say I wanted to give labor, some
value against capital. So you could only earn profit, if your money is being invested in a true
under business venture in a true investment. So you could go buy a farm, you could go like purchase,
you know, share, buy shares in a store, some business, real business venture. So all of these things
are understandable, it's easy to basically talk about the wisdom of the prohibition of revenue or
the river of deferment, but what about these other types of river of savings? You know, why does it
		
00:48:45 --> 00:49:14
			have to be equal for equal Why does it have to be hand to hand here. So, this is certainly these are
reflections but not necessarily something others particularly prove it really bad and fabulous
prohibited because it eventually leads to revenue See, when people get used to when people get used
to trading, for instance, silver for silver,
		
00:49:15 --> 00:49:23
			you know, to to pay off silver for let's say 10 grams of silver for 15 grams of silver
		
00:49:24 --> 00:49:39
			in an immediate transaction. In an immediate transaction, you get used to trading 15 grams for 15
grams in immediate transaction, this may result in people doing the same thing in a different
transaction.
		
00:49:41 --> 00:49:57
			Because they will think that you know, if I'm doing this now like 10 for 15, okay, how to get you
the 15 grams of silver next month and that will result in revenue or variable of deferment. So, that
is why
		
00:49:59 --> 00:49:59
			you know
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:06
			The the means to evil were blocked at the very outset or the very, very beginning
		
00:50:07 --> 00:50:10
			of the road. Is it clear to some extent?
		
00:50:12 --> 00:50:15
			You know, is it really problematic or it's
		
00:50:16 --> 00:50:33
			you know, the river of loans is very clear and straightforward, when you give a loan to somebody you
cannot expect a profit or increase or any material worthy benefit from this loan, because otherwise
would be a rubber, the rubber of seals is a little bit complicated.
		
00:50:36 --> 00:51:24
			But in general the agree that these six items are injurious, they agree that within the same group
of same group that shares the same handler, the same headline prohibit prohibition, things have to
be if it is the same kind, it has to be hand to hand an equal for equal, if it is different kinds
within the same group, it does not have to be equal for equal but it must be hand to hand. So wheat
for barley must be hand to hand because they are within the same group. If it is between the two
groups, then it does not have to be hand to hand or equal for equal if it is between one thing from
one of these two groups and one thing from outside, which is an unusual item to begin with no
		
00:51:24 --> 00:51:47
			stringency whatsoever, it does not have to be equal for equal does not have to be hand to hand there
is some exception here, when it comes to the non usual yes items, if they are of the same type the
same kind, you know, then, in this case, the majority will say
		
00:51:48 --> 00:51:49
			that they cannot be
		
00:51:51 --> 00:52:51
			traded with increase and deferment, you know, so, one goat for two goats later the majority said no,
no, particularly if they are the same goats and their medic is one now I agree with the majority of
the are the same goes this have the same qualities, the same uses and everything. So, one left one
apple laptop that came out of the factory with the same sort of what features like it like, you
know, the so three laptops now, they have the exact same features, you cannot trade one, he cannot
trade one now, for two later. You cannot do this. If the three laptops share the same exact
features, everything. There are not usually as items yet. This dijanna knows the exact similarity
		
00:52:51 --> 00:52:57
			between them. Makes it a problem to trade them with increase and deferment.
		
00:52:59 --> 00:53:04
			All of that's clear. Okay, good. And we will have to stop. I mean, it's you know,
		
00:53:06 --> 00:53:19
			but then, then I think we should leave time for people because some people have commitments and
arrangements. So let's leave five minutes for people to leave and then we will take all the
questions that you have