Hamza Tzortzis – LIVE Book Launch – Dying to Believe
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Brothers and sisters and friends.
And all those in between. Welcome to today's
Sapiens
Institute
livestream.
And today we're gonna be talking about a
very important topic with a very
important brother, brother Imran Hussain. He is one
of our researchers
and instructors at Sapiens Institute
and now an author. Alhamdulillah.
And he has recently written a book and
we've published it as part of our Sapiens
Publishing, part of Sapiens Institute. You can find
it on Amazon,
you can find it
for free on our website, sapiensinstitute.org/books.
Just type in your email, and you can
download the book for free, a PDF file
and ebook.
And the book is called Dying to Believe,
My Quest for Life's
Ultimate Meaning,
and
this book, dear brothers and sisters and friends,
is
I I love it. I was listening to
a few chapters just the other day, and
the kind of
intermingling
of a personal story,
an existential
story,
and
articulating philosophical
concepts, it's so seamless
that, you know, you don't seem that you're
taken from one domain of knowledge to the
other, and it's written quite well actually.
And it's written for an audience
who
wants to engage
with a particular book, but with a personal
narrative, but at the same time, wants some
deep
concepts,
some,
you know, positive articulation for the Islamic tradition,
but through an emotional and personal
and theo philosophical context as well.
And
it's a fascinating read, I recommend every single
one of you download the book, Go to
sapienceinstitute.orgforward/books,
and you could also click the button to
receive
a paper
back copy from Amazon.
So we have with us today brother Imran
Hussain. Assalamu alaykum wa ta'ala, bro.
Good. Alhamdulillah. So good to see you, bro.
May Allah bless you. And zakalehi for writing
the book. So
the first question I have for you, my
dear brother, is
why did you write the book? What's the
back drop? What's the background story to this
book?
Okay. So,
I guess there's 2 main things,
that come to mind when you ask that
question. One
is that at the time we were thinking
of writing the book, we had, Richard Dawkins,
publish a,
Outgrowing God, that book that he wrote for
a younger audience,
which didn't have many references in it. It
was written like a story
appealing to, like, you know, younger children, teenagers,
etcetera.
So that was one of the things that
that, you know, came to mind and we
we actually I remember we discussed this. Well,
one of the things we wanted to do
is have something in that genre, that type
of style where we're addressing
a younger audience, you know, teenagers,
young adults,
young Muslims basically. And we had other similar
books as well like by Alem Shah, The
Young Atheist Handbook.
So they were doing some work in that
type of style. So we wanted to do
something similar
to cater for that audience. So I remember,
you know, I remember when we spoke about
it. And the other thing was that, you
know, masha'Allah, I think it's important to mention
that this book isn't,
you know, it's not my solely my product
or something that that belongs to me. It's
actually a team effort.
You know, you have a lot of credit,
you know, that that for this as well
because you inspired it. You encouraged me to
write the book because, initially, I never thought
of writing a book.
I never thought I could write a book.
Even when we first started discussing writing the
book,
you know, I was so petrified at the
idea of writing a book that you said,
don't worry about it. We'll get a ghostwriter.
Someone will write it for you. You know,
you just go through the story with them.
But as I go into the process,
I started to write it myself. And
and, yeah, it took it took a while.
But, yeah, You know? And then now we
have the book.
Excellent, bro. And what's really important from what
you're saying is that a lot of the
kind of atheists, the new atheists, they were
all already providing
their version of the world, their worldview through
a personal and existential story, and we felt
that it was important for us to provide
a book
to do that as well. So people who
are entering college or university or even the
general masses, if they wanna read a book
that is easy to read, but it's also
deep and profound, and it goes for a
personal and kind of conceptual narrative in a
way that, you know, mingles together in a
seamless way, then this is the book for
them. And we wanted to
to really fill a gap in that space,
because we don't really have books
written by Muslims, or articulating the Islamic the
veracity of the Islamic tradition,
in that way. So this was like a
a challenge to the kind of humanist
stories that are being,
produced and the atheist narratives.
And, yeah, you're right. So, I think it
was Allam Saha and Richard Dawkins, they already
have written books that have that kind of
feel and that theme, and we wanted to
basically,
challenge that. And it's very important because not
many people like reading deep philosophical books or
theological books that are
are embedded with deep concepts. They want a
personal story because it's very hard to refute
a story, and it's very hard for you
to channel someone's personal experience. Now if you're
articulating it with a true personal experience and
you have the truth at the same time,
then it's gonna be a fantastic book. And
that's why I think your book is extremely
fantastic, bro. May Allah bless you. I remember,
I think, many many years ago, maybe 5
years ago now, we sat,
in the office, and I was recording
an interview. Right? That I was interviewing you
about your life and your story, which then
became the basis for this book. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a
podcast
that we recorded. It was a podcast, but
there was also an an audio,
recording that I just had I did a
private interview. And I remember I think I
was Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I think I was, like,
I was quite moved by you by your
story.
Even when I was listening to listening to
it the other day,
you know, there was parts of me that,
you know, I I wanted to cry, man.
So,
bro, it's it's very moving, it's very powerful,
and it's very
authentic. What I mean by authentic,
you know, you reveal yourself in a in
without any negative intentions to the reader. You
reveal yourself in a way that you don't
have any negative intentions. You want you want
positivity for the reader so they learn from
your experience, and they're touched, moved, and inspired.
So,
So
I have another question.
So, alright.
You've talked about the background to the book.
What is the book about? I mean, obviously,
we were gonna read it, but to encourage
people to read it, how would you describe
the book in a few paragraphs?
Yeah. It it it's basically my story. Right?
And, you know, it's it's my journey. So
again, like you said, bro, we've got this
type of style from
the atheists. You know, they write about the
journey away from religion or away from Islam
and how they left and how it changed
their life and how it made their life
all amazing.
But the reality is totally different. I mean,
my story, and you've had certain experiences in
your past, which are similar result where we
were at a point in our lives where
life didn't make any sense, the world around
us didn't make any sense in the absence
of God. And this is an experience many,
many people have, you know. So the, the,
you know, it wasn't easy to sort of
write about my story,
and the experiences that I had.
Even when I was reading it back a
few months ago when I was doing a
review of it, you know, it took me
back to some of the dark places I
had been in in the past.
So it wasn't easy to even read again,
but I think the the idea was or
the thought behind it was that I wanted
to to share this because I really felt
that people could connect with this story,
in one way, you know, or the other.
It will relate to people. Many people go
through such experiences, you know you know, a
time of crisis in their life where things
don't make sense, things don't add up.
They don't know who they are, they don't
know who their creator is, they don't know
what they're doing here. On top of it,
life isn't going fantastic, you know, things are
upside down and they can't make sense of
it. Evil and suffering, trials and tribulations.
People find themselves in these positions.
And, you know, I wanted to share my
story and show them that, look, you know,
these one of the things you could take
from this is that life is a journey
and it's not supposed to be paradise.
You're here to go through a test and
you're here to worship your creator and a
part of that journey is gonna be, you
know, are you gonna do are you gonna
use the faculties and the tools Allah has
given you? Are you gonna use the trials
and tribulations He's placed in your life
to turn towards him, to find him, you
know, to seek him out and then to
submit to him and to worship him and
how that changes your life. So that's why
I really want, you know, I I finally,
you know, made the decision, okay, I am
gonna do this and commit to it and
write this. And it did take several months
and, you know, Alhamdulillah, you know, it it
came out really well, you know, at the
end of it. So I think people that
read this, Muslims, non Muslims,
you know, whoever you are, even they read
this, I'm sure they'll find at least parts
of the story they can relate to and
connect with, and they will definitely takes hopefully
something away from it as well, Insha'Allah.
Yeah. I I I felt it was very
powerful, especially your existential crisis. And I was
thinking when I was reading the first couple
of chapters or listening to the first couple
of chapters,
what I felt was that, SubhanAllah, Allah blessed
you bro. Honestly, you know, He blessed you
with these experiences and the journey itself.
And, you know, I was kind of thinking
that, you know, on the day of judgement,
when you see all of the reward
and all of the divine
blessings,
and divine mercy, and boundless love that's gonna
be showed upon you,
you're gonna wish that you had that experience
a 1000 times. Now, I know, you know,
when people read the first few chapters, they're
gonna be like, Oh my God!
This is, like, darkness. Like, you know, I
would rather have one of my legs removed
maybe than than experience what you experienced, bro.
Yeah? It was it was tough stuff.
And, you know,
I echo some of your experiences, not all
of them because, you know, obviously, we had
different experiences, but that kind of kind of
that existential angst or that search for meaning
or, you know, my one was more about,
you know, I thought I was the only
one aware of
my own
awareness. What I mean by that is that,
you know, I had a very lonely experience
when I was around 12 years old, and
I felt that,
you know, I I can't really know that
people have conscious awareness. Maybe I'm the only
one with conscious awareness, and that was a
very deep, lonely experience. But, nevertheless,
you know, maybe highlight some of the experiences
or or one experience in terms of the
existential angst that you had in order for
people to be encouraged to read the book,
because I think, it is a very, very
powerful story. Because there's one part of the
story when you're basically saying that you were
looking at a a piece of meat in
the butcher's,
and you you said there is no real
difference between yourself
and the piece of meat. And I explained
that. Explain the background to that and and
how you can approach that. Yeah. Sola, when
when you don't
have
belief in Allah, when you don't recognize a
creator,
essentially, what you believe is that, well, you
exist, the world around you exists, and you
are basically a biological physical being, and that's
all there is to it. You know, the
the concept of, you know, spirituality or a
soul or things like this don't exist in
that worldview or that perspective of looking at
reality.
So I was really, you know, for many
years, plagued by these questions and thoughts. And
they were constant. Like,
they were the most important thing that I
had to figure out and I had to
find answers to who am I,
what am I. And the only conclusions I
could come to
in the absence of God was, well, look,
you're just this physical
being made of matter,
and that's it. There's nothing else to it.
There's no more there's there's no further conclusions
you can come to and you just exist
by chance and you're just here by chance.
You're just here by chance. You're just here
by chance. So that specific, you know, incident
was when, you know, walking past a butcher
shop, you know, you see meat hanging in
the window. And I remember looking at it
and this this realization hitting me that, you
know, oh my God, that
you know, what's different between you? And I
stood there and asked this question, what's different
between you and that piece of meat that's
hanging in the window? Sure. That piece of
meat hanging in the window doesn't have any
skin on it.
It's just, you know, muscle, but, well, that's
what you are as well. So what differentiates
you between, you know, what differentiates you and
and that? And that, you know, the emotions
and the feelings that came along with it
naturally being a human being, you know, emotions
follow thoughts. Intense. Like, well, if there's no
difference, then what does my life even mean?
You know, I could be hanging in that
window. I mean, it'll make no difference. You
know, it'll be the same. And and even
the first experience I had when it first
kicked in when I was thinking about these
questions for a while, but I kept pushing
them away and getting on with life. But
there was one moment, you know, right in
the beginning of the book where, you know,
I go home after school and it just
suddenly hits me. It's like the rug being
pulled out of your from under your feet.
Like, it was almost like, okay. Now reality
has hit me. Nothing around me makes any
sense. You know, what is this even real?
Is is my room real? Are these walls
real? Am I real?
And that realization,
when it hits you not that it's the
correct under you know, understanding of reality, but
at the time, it was the most correct
understanding based on what I believed in my
worldview.
It's a very scary place to be. It's
like you you've, you know, you've grown up
around the things you've grown up around, but
you don't really recognize them anymore. Well, those
emotions associated with those things are gone. They're
just sucked away,
because you don't know what they are. You
don't know you don't you don't know what
their true nature is. So it was a
very, very dark time, and I was very
I was in my early teens at the
time, maybe, like, 12 I don't even remember.
Maybe 12 or something like this, 13. I
can't I can't exactly remember how old I
was, but I was very young. And it
was a very, very scary place to be.
And
these phases kept coming because these questions kept
coming, these thoughts kept running through my mind,
you know, what am I, what am I
doing here, what's my purpose?
And again, to emphasize the point, in the
absence of a
religious
worldview, in in particular, an Islamic worldview, which
we'll go into and and explore a little
further.
In the absence of God,
on a so purely, so secular materialist way
of looking at reality,
That is what reality is. That's all you
are an accident. You are a physical biological
being that's accidentally hit. There is no rhyme
or reason behind your existence. Now most people,
yeah, okay, recognize this and just push it
aside and get on with life. But there
are other people that just can't do that
because that is, you know, it's an important
painful realization to have, you know, that that's
who you are. So what is the point
of doing anything? So, you know, I went
through many of these experiences for many, many
years and it was very, very difficult. But
like you said, I think, you know, now
looking back and Allah always does there's always
a purpose behind things as as no matter
the the level of difficulty you're going through,
no matter the level of pain you're going
through, the suffering you're going through, ultimately, it
all has
a meaning behind it, and it's all good
for the believer, especially. Now I look back,
you know, I I can hold I'm holding
the copy of the book in my hand.
And it's just like, okay. This is what
it was all about. Now and and not
only have I understood why why it all
happened, because and on top of that, not
only do I have Islam now, and I
recognize my creator. That in itself is the
greatest blessing and worth all the trials and
tribulations in the world. But on top of
that, now this is hopefully gonna benefit others
and bring me more rewards inshallah.
So the good that's come out of it,
you know, the little life we've been able
to understand even in this life,
it's it it just falls into place, you
know, and it and it and it makes
sense that everything, for me, at least personally,
that everything happens for a reason. You know?
So so all of my
yeah. It's it's it's very powerful, bro, because
a lot of people in the dua today
who wanna share Islam, they're not very authentic
about themselves or their lives. There is a
massive,
kind of,
gap between who they really are and what
they promote to the world, which is fine
to a certain degree. But I think with
you, bro, not just the book, but with
your style and with your doubt in general,
it's quite inspiring, because there is a sense
of,
sincere authenticity about it. And and the book
comes across that way, because you talk about,
for example, the problems that you had, you
talked about the drinking problem, you you talked
about all of these other issues, which I
feel, you know, that takes a lot of
courage for someone to reveal,
especially in a kind of Muslim,
you know, domain, yeah, in the Islamic domain.
And, you know, that authenticity comes through, and
I think it's very, very powerful. And I
think in a nutshell, what you said, and
I think you mentioned this in the book
that, you know, we're just rearrangements
of of electrons and carbon.
You know, you know, what kind of profound
or ultimate,
you know, difference is there between that piece
of me
and me as a human being. We're just
rearrangements of the same type of stuff. And
if this stuff, according to materialist or
philosophical naturalist or atheistic world view, is blind,
cold and non rational, then, you know, you
know, how can I have any ultimate meaning
or or purpose, or is there is there
any difference in terms of value between me
and a piece of meat? Fundamentally, there isn't.
And when people start saying, oh, you know,
but you have pain, you have feelings, you
have consciousness, you have humanity, you have all
of these things. But these are just words.
These are just ideas that are reduced to
neurochemical firings in the brain, which are further
reduced to electrons whizzing around that are blind,
cold, and nonrational.
So, you know, the way you articulate that
point is very powerful, because what you do
in the book is all which I thought
was really, really interesting,
is the way you talked about a personal
experience and you went to a philosophical topic.
And it was quite seamless.
It's like they're intermingling, a seamless intermingling between
these different domains of of of knowledge and
narrative. I was like, wow. You hit that
that point. Actually, you hit the point home.
And you talked about the existential philosophers and
the atheist thinkers who try to address the
problem of meaning and purpose, and you respond
to it in a very
kind of profound way, and you deal with
it really effectively. So
for that, bro. I really recommend this book
to
to anyone, really, anyone who likes reading. And
if you don't like reading, then start to
like reading, to read this book.
So,
the next question I have, bro, if you
don't mind, is what alternative ideas or philosophies
did you look into
and why weren't they correct?
Yeah. So,
there was loads of things I looked into
bro.
I think I looked into several of the
other religions as well, see what they had
to say. Religion wasn't the first thing that
I saw.
It wasn't even in the in the mind,
you know, to look at religion, generally.
It was mainly like, okay, let's look at
let's think about it for myself. Couldn't come
to any answers. Right? Then I looked at
what some of these, you know, philosophers, you
know, the existentialist philosophers. I didn't know that
they were existentialist philosophers at the time. Looked
at some of their works on this.
Didn't really make much sense because what I
gained from it or gleaned from it was
that all they were saying was,
you know, let's just make stuff like you
mentioned many years later when I came across
your work, all the let's just make stuff
up. You know, let's just let's just let's
just talk about some fantastic things in some
in a powerful way, you know, about, you
know,
you know,
responsibility and living
upright lives and and elevating yourself and creating
things for yourself.
It sounds nice. It sounds interesting and exciting.
You know, stuff you hear Jordan Peterson spout
these days as well. You know, he he's
taking a lot of his stuff from these
existentialists as well, you know, about creating meaning
and living upright lives and doing this and
the other. But
again, what where is that coming from? These
are just ideas that are the again, being
produced in the brain, which is just a
set of atoms and molecules in motion. You're
just coming up with these things. They have
no intrinsic value. They're just ideas. They sound
good. Sure. They may make you feel like
your life has some meaning,
in the in the short term, but this
is not your ultimate meaning. You're just making
stuff up.
So it it it didn't really I don't
as I the way I thought about it
was, look,
why why should I do all of these
things? You know, what's the what's the underlying
drive behind it? There isn't any. You just
live and you die, and you use this
arrangement of atoms. Why not just live the
way I am living currently, just not doing
anything about it? You know?
Some people would would say, well, why not
just go fulfill your desires and have fun,
you know? Forget about all of this.
So, you know, each for their own, but
I think it's it's a very sort of
in some ways, a very shallow way of
addressing the problem. It's almost putting a a
Band Aid Band Aid on on the problem.
You know, you're you're saying, okay. There is
no ultimate meaning to life. Let's just make
stuff up for ourselves. And just this whole
idea of making stuff up for yourself, let's
let's let's elevate this and put this on
a pedestal and make it seem like this
is the most profound thing you could do
in your life. Why? Why is it the
most profound thing you could do in your
life? You know? It it it didn't make
any sense to me. I couldn't see any
rhyme or anything. And then, eventually, I started
to look into some of the other religions
and stuff, but I couldn't find anything as
far
as meaning was concerned. You know? Mostly,
you would find religions talking about, you know,
do this or don't do this, and this
is a good way to live, and this
is Islam was the last thing I I
I I looked at. Knew I was born
into a Muslim family. You know,
I knew that, you know, my parents were
Muslim and so on. So I thought, well,
I've been born into this. Obviously, the answers
aren't
there. Otherwise, I would have found them, you
know, by now.
I've I had read the Quran growing up
as a child, you know. I'd learned the
Arabic, how to read the Arabic,
growing up. So I thought, you know, if
the answers were gonna be there, I would
have known them by now. So I didn't
look into it till the very end. And
then as a last resort when there was
literally nothing left, that's when I looked into,
the Quran.
And I think it was in a tafsir,
and I think I mentioned in the book
as well. It was in in a specific
tafsir or a verse, and I just opened
the Quran and I I came to it.
And it mentions something about,
in the in the tafsir
of this particular verse. I don't remember what
the verse was, but that just like at
the darkest point of night, you know, the
rays of light come through and break the
darkness. That's how in the darkest moments of
your life,
you know, the rays of guidance come through
and break that darkness. And that really hit
me. I remember I closed the Quran at
that point, I just that shook me up
for for days.
It was like that was for me. It
was speaking to me. You know? And then
I started reading the Quran, and then the
more I read, I realized, well, all the
answers I and I had never read the
Quran in that way before. You know? I'd
never read the Quran in with with with,
in the English language before that I could
understand it. I'd read it, recited it, mem
you know, memorized parts of it, but I
didn't know what it was saying.
And that's why, you know, inshallah, in the
future, the project we have coming with the
young Muslims guide, and that will inshallah be
a book as well. You know, one of
the main problems I'm trying to I wanna
address in that is that, yes, Muslims are
born into a Muslim family, and we are
Muslim, but many young Muslims don't know or
understand Islam as a comprehensive worldview.
That's a holistic way of looking at reality.
Allah has given us all of the answers
to the most fundamental questions that we ask.
So it's not just the do's and don'ts.
That's a part of Islam,
but that is not the ultimate objective. The
objective is to know your creator and to
worship him,
and Allah gives you all the answers your
inquisitive mind asks as a human being. You
know? So it builds a profound worldview and
and the most comprehensive without any issues, without
any sort of loose ends or anything like
this. It will make sense.
Yeah. No. That's that's that's very powerful,
And it's very interesting because in the book
you mentioned the existential philosophers,
and I think you mentioned, Jean Paul Sartre
and others when they tried to kind of
navigate the question
about meaning because
a lot of these people felt that there
was no ultimate meaning for existence because their
ontology, their worldview,
the source and nature of reality was that
they don't believe there was any purpose or
divine, you know, creative power
behind the cosmos or behind existence.
So what they said was, well, it's nothingness.
And in that nothingness, you can create your
own meaning. So you have a new realm
of possibility
to create your own meaning. But the you
mentioned something very powerful in the book, bro.
You basically say, well,
that's a bit, like,
meaningless because you're
trying to find meaning,
but the basis in trying to find meaning
and create meaning is actually meaningless.
Right? It's a sense of meaninglessness.
So,
I get what you're saying here, because you're
saying look, if fundamentally the whole, the whole
basis of reality
is no purpose, no ultimate meaning, even no
ultimate value,
and the only value and meaning you can
give it is what you give it, then
fundamentally
it's just almost saying let's pretend to have
meaning.
Right? That's what that's what they mean. But
therefore you can't have Yeah.
Go on.
No. I was just gonna say, it's like,
I think Camus,
was,
slightly different from some of these other existentialists
because he outlined what you've referred to as
the absurd. You know, the absurdity of life,
which is recognize that there's no ultimate meaning,
yet you can't help but strive to find
the ultimate meaning, you know, and you're chasing
that. And that's so, you know, meaning for
him was whatever keeps you alive basically and
prevents you from killing yourself, you know. So
he he highlight,
you know, the reality, which is ultimately there
is no meaning. Sure. You know, if if
it keeps you going to just make up
stuff for yourself and chasing that, then, yeah,
keep doing that, you know. So but you're
right. On their worldview, in the absence of
God, there is no ultimate meaning. No matter
how you spin it, no matter which way
you look at it, there is no way
around this. There literally isn't.
Yes. Yeah. No. You're right. You're right. I
mean, I do want people to, read the
book. We don't have to get too much
into the kind of, philosophical
and existential
contentions
and responses and all of that stuff because
I want people to read the book. So
I think
the
next question I have for you is
you've mentioned,
you know, some of it previously, but I
just want you to unpack it a little
bit further is, do you need Islam to
have ultimate meaning?
Yes. You do need Islam to have ultimate
meaning. So look, you know, may there are
many religions out there. Many religions make the
claim that they are from the divine source,
and they are preserved as they were when
they were first revealed.
But when you look into this and you
dive into this, you realize this is not
the case.
And what you realize,
you know, eventually, is that Islam is the
only religion that is divine and it's preserved.
You know, and you can also through Islam,
you understand, well, why, you know, the the
whole history of it, you know. Yes, God
sent many messages and many revelations, but over
the period passage of time, people change the
text and scriptures and they weren't meant to
be till the day of judgment.
You know, there was this divine plan of
revealing or giving us this final revelation
and this final way of life, which will
be till the day of judgment, which will
be preserved.
And the Quran is preserved. You know, you
can you can look you can look at,
non Muslim academic sources for this and Muslim
sources. There's a lot of information out there
about this. We have loads of good stuff
from the Sapiens,
learning platform as well in regards to this.
There's some brilliant books doctor Osman has written
on this as well. You know? So there's
a lot of information there about this. So
that's one thing. The second thing is is
that when you look at what Islam says,
you know, when Allah tells us what our
meaning is.
They didn't create us for any other reason
except to know him and to worship him.
You know, and then the the Quran outlines
for us, you know, how this worship
takes place. What is this worship?
It it falls into place. Allah even outlines
why he created us in this world, you
know, to so that we're tested, you know,
part of that test is to see. Are
we gonna find our creator? Are we gonna
turn to him and worship him? Our worship
is being tested. We are being tested in
this life. So everything is outlined very clearly.
Evil and suffering. I think it is a
chapter or a past part of the book
where we address evil and suffering as well.
It all falls into place. It's a part
of the test. You know, it's why we're
here. And we're gonna go through trials and
tribulations. It's not gonna be easy sailing just
because you know what's going on and how
it all works and why you're here. Yeah,
but now it's time to get involved in
that test and then go through the process
of life.
So, you know, Islam comprehensively
addresses all of these areas. Why we're here,
where we're going, what life is all about,
you know, why we suffer, why we go
through trials and tribulations.
Like you mentioned, Islam probably is the only
way of life
that gives meaning to suffering, ultimate meaning to
suffering as well.
Sure, there's people out there, there's philosophers that
have ascribed meaning to suffering and ways of
looking at suffering.
But to give it a true ultimate meaning,
that can only come from the creator himself.
You know, why do we really suffer? What
is what is the purpose behind this? What
does it mean when you go through a
trial trial or tribulation?
And it's all day. Everything makes sense. Islam
comprehensively
addresses everything. And,
you know, it's very I like it the
way you focus on worship as well, which,
you know, many people know that worship is
basically humbly
adoring Allah, is being
submissive to Allah. It's loving Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala and expressing acts of worship, you know,
based on
your submission, your humility to Allah and the
fact that you adore Him, you love Him.
And,
you know,
what's interesting when you mentioned about Islam basically
tells you the Quran
has this cognitive and spiritual reframing,
it appreciates that life is a test as
you mentioned.
And not only that, it basically tells you
to stand in the possibility
that the meaning that you're giving this test
or this trial or this trauma
is not the only meaning, and that you
should give the meaning that Allah wants you
to give it, and that
the Prophet
wants you to give it. And you know,
reading your book bro,
essentially you're telling people, because
you had that awakening
through
that the Ayah, that verse in the Quran,
or the surah in the Quran, the chapter
in the Quran, and the tafsir, the exegesis
of that verse, or that part of the
surah,
and that awakens something within you, because you
gave the right meaning to your existential
angst. You gave the right meaning to your
trials and tribulations.
You gave the right meaning to your traumas.
And the whole book really could be summarized
as
give your traumas, give your questions, give your
trials, give your tests the meaning Allah wants
you to give them. And once you do
that, you're able to transcend your suffering in
some way. You know, it's quite ironic, bro.
Imagine I just want you to have this
thought experiment. Okay?
So imagine I want you to go back
all those, like, 15, 20, 25 years, God
knows how long it was. Right? When you're
having that existential anxiety, when you're having that
sense of meaninglessness, when you have that deep
nihilism.
And I want you now
I I I want imagine someone came to
you and said, you know what? In about
20, 25 years,
you're gonna write a book about this, and
you're gonna help
thousands of people
deal with the same type of traumas,
and not only would you help them, but
in the process, you're gonna help yourself,
and you're gonna be able to have
the ability to transcend all of these issues
that you have right now, and you're gonna
you're gonna have a great connection with the
creator of the heavens and the earth.
If, you know, if someone told you that
at that point, would you even believe them?
No.
Not all, bro.
Yeah. Like, no one's no one's wrote no
one's written a book in my as far
as I can remember back, no one's written
no one's been that inclined towards, you know,
writing and stuff. Like, it's it wasn't a
part of my,
mindset or my thinking or, you know, even
being involved in the dawah. I never thought
I would I would be involved in the
dawah. But that that's precisely my point. The
point is
this is how life works. Right? This is
how Allah takes you on a journey. And
if you're able to
have Ikhlas and sincerity and you're yearning for
the the the the answers with sincerity and
you're yearning for Allah, then
irrespective of your trial and tribulation, Allah will
pull you out from that. And that's what
happened with you. And that's why I want
to mention it. I wanted to mention that
to you because just just just just look
back. Just connect the dots back now saying,
SubhanAllah.
I written a book now. I'm helping thousands
of people. I'm in a different situation.
And, you know, this reminds me of, you
know, one scholar who said that, you know,
when Allah chooses something for a believer,
you know, you can't no one else can
choose anything better.
Even if
from a kind of finite fragmentary
perspective,
in the moment perspective, we might think it's
all doom and gloom. But in the grand
cosmic scheme of things, the best thing that
Allah has chosen for you, man. So, yeah,
I just wanna reiterate that again.
Yeah. Absolutely. Good. So but the funny yep.
Go. Yeah. Go.
Well, the funny thing is you you you
you write the book, and you talk about
that you you solve these questions. You found
Allah. You found Islam.
But then you talk about very interesting turning
point, which,
I really echo and mirror many of your
sentiments and even your experiences. And I think
they should be highlighted, especially in today's
age when we have a lot of algorithm
prostitutes.
Right? Although, we have prostituted ourselves to the
algorithm,
you know, likes, shares.
We don't really think about deep meaningful impact.
It's all about abstract numbers. They don't have
any real life, you know, consequences. We just
have anecdotal evidence,
and we're just basically become
slaves to the algorithm. Right? We're not slaves
to an objective or to a Allah centric,
Akhirah centric strategy.
And so you write in the book that
you found Islam, but then you got involved
in Dawah.
And then you lost yourself again. So please
explain this to to us. Yeah. That's all
the so second crisis if you like. Right?
And I I think it highlights a couple
of things.
Number 1, you know, you don't you don't
deserve any of this regardless of what you've
gone through. Right? There was probably a point
where so, you know, when I came out
of this,
and I and you know that moment you
realize this is the truth and it hits
you.
That's a life changing moment for people, you
know. Especially if you come to Islam as
a new Muslim. There is a moment that
that realization really goes one level deeper,
and it really hits you like a bright
light, and you just you just know at
that moment. It's it's beyond
philosophical argumentation or rational arguments and people convincing
you. It's beyond seeing things with your own
eyes in front of you. There's there's a
moment that happens where it really hits you
and you know it's the truth.
Now when that happened, you know, I was
extremely grateful, you know, because I had been
suffering for for probably
close to a decade, maybe longer. I don't
know many, many years on and off. Right?
So that was a very profound moment for
me. And I also remember that even once
I came to Islam and I started practicing,
I still had some of those anxiety
feelings and thoughts that were bothering me. And,
you know, I was still feeling that because
I'd gone through it for so many years.
And I remember there was one moment and
and this was the other point I wanted
to quickly make as well.
You know,
yes, Allah gives us the the correct
understanding
of or how to give meaning to our
suffering.
But when you do give it's not only
that. When you start giving your suffering the
correct meaning and you start to
develop a relationship with Allah and you start
to do the right things,
Allah also gives you signs in your life.
Things happen, and you can't really explain them,
but you know there's signs because they just
fall into place. You know? So for example,
one occasion, I remember falling into prostration, and
I was like, y'all take these these feelings
away from me because they were still there.
You know? The the the sort of,
anxiety related to everything I'd gone through over
the past decade or so.
Frustration after that moment, those those feelings disappeared.
They never came back.
You know, they completely vanished like they never
existed. So these signs happen. Allah will give
you signs, but you have to take that
first step. You know, there's many young Muslims,
we speak to them on the lighthouse as
well. You know, they're like, I have doubts,
I'm confused, I don't know, I'm off track,
you know, I'm I'm all over the place,
I've turned away from Islam.
You know, they're expecting a miracle to happen
for them before they start worshiping Allah. You
need to this is a part of the
test. You Allah's not gonna spoon feed you.
He's not gonna come and say, look, here
I am. And then you believe and then
you do everything. It'll defeat the purpose of
the test. You have to take the first
step.
But when you get on that journey Allah
will show you things along the way which
solidify your belief and your your connection with
him so that will happen as well
and going to the the point you made
the you know the second part of of
the book or the the the latter part
of the book where, okay, I started practicing,
I got involved in the dua, everything is
perfect, I'm feeling amazing, I feel like I
found my purpose, I'm living my purpose now,
I'm giving people dua, I'm calling people to
Islam, I meet you, I meet Adnan Allah
is making things happen fall into place. I
meet subur,
you know, I start doing videos, I start
getting more, you know, I suddenly developed this
ability to speak and communicate with people. Whereas
in in in high school, even in high
school, I was I was the kid in
the class that I was I would be
shaking at the thought of the teacher asking
me the question not even that he's asked
me the question just that thought would shake
me I couldn't speak in front of people
and I start and and I could start
I could read books I can deal with
and understand concepts and ideas which I've never
been able to I was never a very
bright kid in school anyway, right? I would
never get fantastic grades. So Allah was opening
things for me and these were signs but
I obviously didn't you know out of my
ignorance and my maybe my arrogance as well
and my childishness and just being a feeble
human being,
somewhere along the journey, I started to lose
my weight. You know? I started these things
started to get to me, and they started
to affect me, and I started to think
I was something special. You know? That I
had these abilities, and it was me that
was doing this, and I needed more views,
and I needed to make more videos.
And and how when when when me and
Subur first started to do the LDM videos
and stuff, they they started to go quite
viral. They started to get very popular because
none of this stuff was online at that
time. The only guys before that was yourself
and Adnan that were doing videos, but you
guys were focusing more on the academic,
debates and stuff like this. So this there
was this niche, and, you know, as the
algorithm works, it stuff got very popular,
and that affected me. It did, and at
the time, I didn't wanna admit it. I
was finding excuses, you know, so you start
to psychologically find excuses.
You know, why are you chasing views? No,
views are good, views are brilliant because that
means your channel will grow and that means
more people will come across the message. So
it's good to chase the views and you
start to convince yourself with these things. Shaitan
starts to, you know, weave in all of
these ideas into your mind deluding you further,
you know, but then you get to a
point where you realize, hold on a second,
you know, I haven't prayed,
and I'm filming this video, or I haven't
prayed and I'm preparing to refute this person,
or I've prayed but my, I didn't know
what I was doing, and all I was
thinking about was the, you know, the YouTube
and all of this stuff, and my, where
was my connection? And slowly your connection starts
to break down you know with Allah and
it gets gradual you know it's gradual and
I got to the point where I was
just completely finished and I fell into another
sort of
very dark space it was different from
the existential issues I had, because now I
knew, you know, at least
when I fell into this this second stage
of darkness, I knew logically, okay, I knew
God existed, I knew all the arguments for
God's existence,
I knew all the philosophical
discussions around it, but there was an emptiness.
There was no connection. There was no, you
know so it was like I knew, but
I didn't know at the same time. I
knew on the rational level, but on a
spiritual, emotional, there there was nothing. It was
empty. And that sent me to this really
dark phase for for, again, a couple of
years, a few years, maybe 3, 4 years
where and I didn't mention this to to
many of the brothers, you know.
You are quite pivotal,
in in, you know, maybe preventing me from
going too far down, and you probably don't
even realize this.
You know, because I remember when I first
joined Aira, you know, LDM was really blowing
up, and it was doing amazing with views.
And you,
you know, you you made a step back.
And I don't know if, you know, Allah
Allah made it so that you made us
step back from LDM and doing these videos,
and you gave me what I consider trivial
tasks in the daw at the time. And
I've probably not even spoken to you about
this stuff, you know, in the past, but
I think it'll be beneficial for people to
hear this.
You know, you made me, you know, do
video editing or recording
stuff, training courses,
and inside, I hated it. There was a
part of me that really disliked that because
in my mind, it was like, you know,
no. You need to be on the camera.
People are listening to you. They're watching your
videos. You're getting all these views, and now
you're here doing all this back end stuff
of admin
and videos and editing and stuff like this.
But that was that probably saved me from
a bigger burnout than I you know, and
completely destroying myself, you know, that so put
the brakes on it a little bit, which
I needed at the time and I didn't
realize at the time.
But the point is that that, you know,
the way the whole algorithm is set up
and the social media world is set up,
you know, we think it's a free space.
We think it's, you know, you you can
put out what you want and, you know,
you could benefit. No. It can be, but
it's designed to make you,
you know,
put yourself out there. It's designed to make
you chase the views. It's designed to make
you chase the fame. You know? And then
then the algorithm rewards you. You know? And
and back then, it wasn't as bad as
it is today. But even then, so I
was really affected by this, and it really
messed me up for several years. You know
you know, Imran, it's quite emotional. So
let me tell you something here.
You don't have a huge, huge, huge channel
or reach for example. Yeah?
But I could almost guarantee
that because of the
reframing of your dua, making it more Allah
centric, and you're not just chasing the algorithm,
thinking the online world is the dua, and
you just have to submit to it and
submit to the algorithm.
Since you moved away from that, I am
telling you,
in the grand cosmic scheme of things, you've
had more impact
than most of the famous Du'at. And let
me I'm not saying this to show dust
on your face,
because
as a result of this kind of more
authentic approach to the Dua, you have directly,
face to face, trained
people
all around the UK. Dua teams all around
the UK that are accessing
millions of people
a year, potentially.
These people who focus on the algorithm are
not doing that. The algorithm is designed to
create micro shifts in people's behavior, and when
you look at an analytics, even if you
do a 1 hour lecture or 10 hour
course online,
maybe 1%, 5% actually watch the whole thing.
You have trained
thousands of people up and down the country,
if not all around the world, on a
one to one level. They've sat there, written
notes, and absorbed what you said. They haven't
said, oh, I'm gonna go to the toilet
now, eat some food, I'm gonna press pause.
They've sat for 8 hours, sometimes 16
hours, listening to you, and you've touched, moved,
and inspired them in order for them to
go out and give dua, and they now
have been either part of teams, part of
organizations, or individuals that are doing online and
offline dua, accessing millions of people.
So from a kind of real world impact
perspective, when we transcend the abstract numbers and
we see what's really happening on the ground,
I'm telling you what you've done bro, Allah,
you will see on the day of judgement,
if you maintain this course of action and
may Allah, you know,
continue to make you sincere,
that you're gonna see a massive reward
that is meaningful
and heavy and weighty because of the work
that you're doing.
And and the reason I'm mentioning this is
not to saw dust in your face, but
to get people to realize
what kind of dua they should be doing.
Don't get me wrong, we should have an
online dua,
but I am a true believer that the
final outcome is with the righteous, Allah says.
And we just need to follow principle.
Success is entirely from Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
So we just have to say to ourselves,
what is the right thing to do? And
du'at must always ask themselves the following question.
What is the most pleasing thing to Allah
in this particular context, whatever context that is?
If they ask themselves that question,
many of the things that they do they
will stop doing.
Right? And so, you know, it's it's it's
actually really inspirational my dear brother, that you
have mentioned this because we do lose ourselves
because there is a, you know, very powerful
Hadith. It's an authentic Hadith.
I'm paraphrasing the Hadith with the the prophet
sallallahu alaihi wa sallam. And this Hadith, I
believe, is recorded in Abu Dawood.
I'll double check and send you guys the
reference.
That the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said
that
fame
and wealth, which are the 2 things, the
2 fitan if you like, the 2 tribulations
concerning,
the dawah. Fame and wealth
are more destructive to one's religion, one's iman,
than
2
free roaming wolf among sheep.
If you know anything about wolves among sheep,
they get massacred.
So the person I'm saying is saying, the
prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam is saying that
fame and wealth
are gonna massacre your religion. They're gonna massacre
your iman. Right? And and we need to
be we need to have people around us
to protect ourselves from this. And I remember
me and you used to have some very
interesting, maybe heated discussions in the office
about this whole thing as well. How and
used to push back very well.
But the point is, those discussions were important,
bro. They're important for me to become a
better leader. They're important
for you in order to find,
your true space in the Dua. And I'm
only mentioning this is because sometimes it got
a bit heated,
but this is what we need. Today's friendships,
especially in the Dua, are just utilitarian.
They're based on a benefit, or we just
use people as an instrument. Well, some brothers
who are friends
bro, some brothers
who are friends
in the Dua, if they weren't benefiting from
each other from each other from an instrumental
utilitarian perspective, from a like shares perspective, or
because they're in the same domain,
they won't even have coffee together. Yeah.
So the point is but we need true
people around us to actually hold us to
account, challenge us, make sure that
we
we we get the best out of each
other. I was reading a few books on
on love recently because of the new book
that I'm writing. And, you know, true love,
loving someone sincerely
is that you are committed to
them achieving the optimal version of themselves.
And that requires you to be humble. And
that requires for you to
express that commitment through your words and your
body language and your behavior.
If someone is in your inner circle, and
they're not truly committed to your well-being, so
you reach an optimal version of yourself,
then they're they're not truly your friend.
Or it could be the case that they
don't want good for themselves either, because there
is a connection between true self love, wanting
good for oneself,
having discipline for oneself, and actually wanting,
you know, goodness for other people as well.
Anyway, that's a bigger topic for another time,
but the reason I'm mentioning this is because
we need people around us, bro. We need
good people around us to ensure that we
have the greatest impact in the dua in
the long term, that we follow principle, because
if you follow principle, the final
outcome
are with those righteous people, as Allah says.
And also that, you know, we do things
for the sake of Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
So,
in moving from this, but connected to it
at the same time.
So,
you know, talk to me a little bit
about fame and dawah. What are your thoughts
about this? And and and what kind of
We've mentioned What what what what are the
yeah. What are the mechanisms or some of
the solutions that we can implement in our
own lives to actually
not, you know, you know, be affected by
these big tribulations of the dower. Yeah?
Yeah, I
it's a big topic, bro. We all have,
you know, we've discussed this stuff over the
phone a couple of times as well. But
I think a couple of things just from,
you know, experience and seeing what's happening, you
know, in the in the dower circles amongst
the brothers.
I think the most important thing a person
could do, especially if you're involved in the
Dawah, if regardless of how many years they've
been involved in the Dawah, is to always
check-in with themselves every every so often,
and really be genuine and honest with themselves,
be authentic with themselves, and ask themselves, look,
why am I doing this? You know, why
am I doing this today? You know, now,
2 years later or 5 years later. What's
my purpose? What's my objective?
I have to be honest with yourself, you
know,
especially with the whole social media stuff and
the algorithm stuff, bro, it makes it 10
times more difficult. You know, already that that
was public facing, you know, that was always
public facing because you're always speaking to at
least one person if you're giving someone dua.
You know, that's challenging enough. Your intention is
gonna be challenged, especially knowing that you're doing
the work that's the opposite of the work
of shaitan and he's going to be on
your case. Now add to that the whole
thing about social media and views and subscribers
and all it's it's it's a mind field.
It literally is a mind field and and
you are in serious danger all the time.
So you need to stay on top of
yourself, your relationship with Allah, your connection with
Allah,
honesty with yourself. You know, that just why
am I doing this?
Am I slipping? Am I doing these things
for the wrong reason? Am I just doing
this to entertain people or to grow my
viewership?
You know, why like you said, relationships as
well. Why am I a friend with so
and so? You know, is this is this
friendship something beyond the whole social media facade
or is there is it just, you know,
skin deep? So just be honest honest with
yourselves. And and it is disgusting, bro. And
and it's not only the brothers involved in
the dua, I think it's also important to
mention this. It's not only the content creators,
the people that watch this content, brothers and
sisters watching this right now as well.
You are also to blame because if you're
giving the views, you know, then you're facilitating
them to produce more of that same type
of content. You know? So the algorithm, there's
two sides to it. There's the content creator
and the content viewer. So if you're watching
all these entertainment type DAO videos and debates
and arguments and, you know, this guy refuting
him and this guy being abusive to him
or this, that, and the other, and you're
giving these things views, then you're setting that
brother up to fall even further in the
future because you're not making easier for them.
Right? Because you're now you're shuttling the views
and you're now influencing the algorithm
to favor that type of content. And then
that message is getting through to the content
creator. And if he's watching his statistics and
looking at how things are going, he's gonna
be, oh, yeah. This video where I, you
know, was a bit abusive and I swore
at this person or I refute to this
person did much better, 10 times better than
my other videos, they're gonna do more of
that stuff. So you're not helping the situation.
So you have to be, you know, conscious
of this as well. When you're online, you're
watching Islamic content, Dawa content, make sure you're
watching the right type of content, educational stuff,
beneficial stuff. Don't watch things. Bro, honestly, like,
if you want entertainment, go watch a movie,
you know, do something else. Okay, halal movie
maybe and not not any type of movie,
but
you know, just go do something else. Go
do an activity. Spend time with family. Go
out with your friends, you know, do something
else. Get offline. As a lot of young
people these days are too online too much,
bro. You know, they even I have the
issue. Sometimes I find myself more, you know,
a great part of the day. I'm online,
you know, I'm like, makes me sick. I
have to throw my phone away then and
go do something else to make up for
it. So get offline, but if you're online,
watch stuff that you're gonna promote stuff by
watching stuff which is beneficial and educational as
opposed to, you know, entertainment in the dua
because you're not helping the dua see the
whole purpose of the dua is you are
sharing the message of Islam
with other human beings for the sake of
Allah so Allah guides them and inshallah you'll
be rewarded for this and you'll draw closer
to Allah If and it's as simple as
that. If that's not happening
and you're getting caught up with all this
other stuff, you are in trouble, you know.
And and it's not a joke bro. Honestly,
that the second fall I had was probably
worse than the first fall in many ways.
Because that was a knowing, you know, with
knowledge, knowing who Allah is, knowing I'm involved
in the dua.
And this desire for views and not getting
the views and some other brothers getting the
views and, you know, why are my videos
not this will eat away at you. It
will destroy you, honestly. Just that alone will
destroy you, you know, and it will make
you depressed, and you will just it'll affect
your physical health. It'll mess you up in
so many different ways. So Well, I know.
And I and I've and I've seen it,
and it's and people start to adopt not
a prophetic methodology. They start to
they start to adopt a sensationalist
methodology,
and that's a massive problem.
And that is taking our
audiences,
our community down the wrong direction,
and it's sending the wrong signals. Because at
the end of the day,
our allegiance is to Allah and His Messenger
Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, and we have to follow
what they say and how to be,
what kind of way of being we must
have when we're interacting with Muslims and non
Muslims
with regards to sharing the unicity, the oneness,
and the worship of Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
It's it's very critical, bro. You're right. But
you know what?
Just keep on doing what you're doing. Keep
on doing what you're doing. Keep on writing,
bro. Keep
on engaging with,
the this great work. You know?
Stay in Sapiens. Alhamdulillah.
You know?
You're a great asset. Keep on writing the
books. Keep on training. You know, we have
the essentials program that is coming out, which
we're gonna be delivering, you know, all across
the world, especially in the UK UK and
Europe, which, you can mention,
in a few moments after this final question.
So answer this final question, bro, then maybe
talk about the essentials program, what's happening with,
when we're gonna launch it, a rough idea
and and what we're gonna be providing.
So the final question is, you know, summarize
for us meaning
with
Allah
and meaning
without
Allah.
Yeah. So let's do the latter first. Without
Allah, there is no there is no meaning.
You know, Allah mentions in the Quran where,
you know, do not be like those who
forgot Allah, and therefore, Allah made them forget
themselves.
You won't know who you are without Allah.
It's impossible for you to know. You don't
choose your birth. You don't choose your, you
know, your entry into this world.
You know, you don't choose who you are.
You mentioned this, you know, you don't choose
anything. You know, you don't choose your gender,
your your hair color, what part of the
world you're born in, your parents. The none
of this is by choice.
You know? So
you don't have the answers. You don't know
who you are, what you are, why you
why you are, and where you're going. You
have answer you can never find the answers
in the, you know, to these questions without
God. It's impossible.
So that's that, and it's as simple as
that. You know, you can you can go
and and and and dissect this and and
and, you know,
go through with a fine
tooth comb and just try to figure it.
You can do that, but, you know, I've
I've been looking at this topic for the
past maybe 7, 8 years. There is no
answers.
You know, you can't find the ultimate meaning
of life without Allah. That's it. It's as
simple as that. You know what's interesting as
well, bro, is I I I I have
to mention this because it's very powerful. I
think I mentioned mentioned this to you a
few months ago, which is, you know, in
the Quran there is no
find yourself question.
There is no
find yourself, you know, in New Age spirituality.
Because what's very interesting, to be a human
being
is to relate. So to be is to
be related, meaning how you relate with yourself,
how you relate with others, and how you
relate with Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
And that idea of a personality, the idea
of being compassionate on a desert island on
your own doesn't really exist because you have
to relate to something, relate to someone external
to yourself.
What's very interesting is the way Allah tries
for us to find who we really are
or for us to reveal the true sense
of self, the true sense of who we
are,
is by actually worshipping and relating to Allah
and having a relationship with Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala. Because Allah says, and you mentioned this
earlier, do be do not be like those
who forgot Allah, and Allah made them forget
their own selves. And Allah says, if you
remember me, I will remember you. So it's
as if the way we're gonna know who
we truly are, the correct way of being,
the correct sense of self, our correct internal
identity is by not trying to discover yourself
some crazy way,
but it's by relating to the one who
created you. And if you have a relation
with Allah
in the right way according to the sunnah,
you will find yourself who you really are.
And, you know, and for me, that's what
came across from the book as well, bro.
May Allah bless you, and everyone definitely should
read it. Please go to sapiensinstitute.orgforward/books.
Download this book and all the other books
that we have. We have over around 17
books, I believe, all for free for you
to download, Alhamdulillah.
And all our services are free, at least
most of them, unless we have to charge
for things like printing and so on and
so forth.
And the essentials program that is coming that
is being managed by our brother, Imran Hussain,
is also free. So now explain to us,
bro, what is the essentials program?
Yeah. So the essentials,
it's it's our grassroots
side of stuff at Sapiens Insha'Allah.
So we have put together
4 essential courses,
and we believe they're essential. And not only
are they individually,
independently essential, they come together and they work
together,
and and they sort of synergize with each
other. So we've got 4 courses. We've got
the dua training course, which is our sort
of advanced Dawah training course, which not only
covers how to give Dawah, but also addresses
the psychology of Dawah, etcetera,
and the fitra and everything else related to
the Dawah and conveying the message to people.
Then we also have a
new Muslim mentorship because obviously when you give
dawah and people accept Islam, then you need
to inshallah take care of the young Muslims
as well. So or new Muslims. And brother
Youssef Ponder's, and the other brothers have developed
this course. So that's a part of the
essentials package.
We also have the, young Muslims guide to
a godless world or the beginner's guide to
a godless world.
We the whole purpose behind this course is
to
really frame young Muslims in a way so
when they go out there, they're immunized basically.
They can come across any ideology that's out
there and they'll be able to process it
and it won't affect them inshallah. And then
we have the no doubt course, which is
so Muslims that have doubts, how to help
them overcome doubts, etcetera. So all of these
four courses are a part of the essentials
package, and it works together. And we're rolling
this out grassroots,
meaning in person.
You can go on to the Sapiens Institute,
website. I think it's sapiensinstitute.orgforward/essentials,
and you can book the essentials courses. So
you can either pick one course, but we
recommend doing all 4 courses through over a
period of a couple of months. Did we
did we miss one course?
So you said the no doubt course, the
No doubt. Tao training.
New Muslim, mentorship, and young Muslims guide. Four
courses. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. And we're giving you
a nice theme as well. So the essentials,
like, the elements. So the, you know, fire,
water, air, earth. So and and we try
to pair that we just thought it'd be
nice to package them in that way,
because they are that essential.
These these are things that all Muslims, you
know, young Muslims, older Muslims
living in the 21st century in the west,
in a secular world, they need to have
access to these courses. Not only will they
will they help you, you know, help you
and help you help your family to, you
know, navigate this world and not fall into
doubt,
but also they will teach you how to
give dawah and to take care of new
Muslims as well, inshallah. So they're it's a
very powerful package. You guys can go and
request that inshallah.
And we can we can come down to
your local mosque, your ISOC, etcetera, and we
can deliver these over a period of a
couple of months inshallah.
So, yeah, I think it's phenomenal. It's in
the UK. We're rolling it out. I think
Shefad is gonna be heading it in the
US and, other parts of the world inshallah
as well. Yeah. And you should We can't
we're not gonna promise who's coming where. It's
important to mention this as well. So you
can't although you can choose your selection of
speaker, but I'd recommend based on what we
discussed today, it's not about the speaker. Don't
worry about that. Just know that any whoever
delivers the course is gonna be trained to
deliver the course and you'll benefit fully.
So just request the course and inshallah, we'll
get back to you. And this we should
be also rolling this out first in the
UK, hopefully,
match Manchester University, and also we're gonna be
rolling this out internationally in the US and
Malaysia, hopefully,
towards the end of November, Insha'Allah.
So my dear brothers and sisters, zaklehi for
spending
almost an hour, few seconds to go for
it to be an hour of your time
listening to us. Please download the book. You
could also get your print copy
from Amazon when you go to the Sapiens
Institute
website. If you go to sapiensinstitute.org/books,
you click on Imran's book, you could download
the free ebook, and you could click the
button to go to Amazon to also get
your
paper
back copy, Insha'Allah. It's gonna be available on
Kindle soon as well. And hopefully, we may
do a video series on this or even
have an audio book inshallah in the future.
You know, make du'a for,
Imran,
for, you know, writing the book. Make du'a
for his family, especially his father.
His father was quite instrumental in helping Imran,
on his journey, which I thought was very
moving and very touching as well. I don't
wanna give too much information because I really
want to read the book, so please download
it. Last few comments from yourself, bro, and
then we'll close.
Yeah. No. Just, you know, keep following the
work inshallah. Make the offer for us. May
Allah keep us sincere.
We also have the,
what's it called? The, Dua principles to engagement
series that's currently going out. So definitely watch
that as well. I think that'll be beneficial
for anyone that wants to get involved in
Dawah.
Yeah. I think there's a lot of good
stuff to come, bro, inshallah. So may Allah
accept from us, and, may Allah bless everyone.