Fatima Barkatulla – Why Muslims Should not IGNORE the Mental Health Crisis
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the use of pathologize and modernity in mental health, as it is often confused and difficult to understand. They also discuss the importance of building resilience in generation and finding parents to acknowledge mental health challenges. The speakers emphasize the need for everyone to acknowledge and acknowledge their mental health challenges and seek help. They also discuss the use of Islamic culture as a therapy for mental health conditions and the importance of practice and learning the language of the Quran. The segment concludes with resources for educational resources and a brief advertisement for a video and a farewell.
AI: Summary ©
When you have hot happy thoughts put them
in your treasure trove so that you may
pull for a while in a quote rainy
day in fact every mental health condition that
we have Sleep is intrinsically related to that
condition and if you don't Purposefully built in
into your schedule time for pause and reflection.
You'll just be overtaken Bismillah alhamdulillah wa salatu
wassalam ala rasool Allah dear brothers and sisters
Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh and welcome to another
ilmfeed podcast episode I'm your host Fatima Barakatullah
and Subhanallah, I haven't met you for so
long.
We've been I've been away But alhamdulillah, I'm
back and today I've got a very exciting
guest for you all the way from America
Dr. Rania Awad Dr. Rania is a medical
doctor A clinical professor of psychiatry at Stanford
University and director of the Stanford Muslim mental
health and Islamic psychology lab She also serves
as an affiliate chaplain and professor of Islamic
studies at Stanford Dr. Awad is a pioneer
in the field of Muslim mental health co
-founding Maristan.org, which I'm sure we will
speak about a nonprofit supporting holistic mental health
care for Muslim communities And she leads the
Rahma Foundation which empowers Muslim women and girls
Before her medical career.
MashaAllah.
Dr. Awad actually pursued Islamic studies in Damascus
earning certifications in Quran and various Islamic Sciences,
she also teaches Islamic psychology here in Britain
at the Cambridge Muslim College and in America
in various institutions, I think her unique blend
of expertise in psychiatry and Islamic education offers
a really valuable perspective to us on mental
health and spirituality So she's here in the
UK With the Khalil Institute.
MashaAllah.
You can find out more about the Khalil
Institute in the description The Khalil Institute does
all sorts of Dawah efforts, events You can
find out more by going to their website
Assalamu alaikum, Dr. Rania.
Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
It has been an honor to meet you
and to get to know you Thank you
so much, I wanted to ask you first
of all This is your I think one
of your first trips to Britain What have
been your early impressions of the Muslim community
here?
What has impressed you the most?
I would have to say SubhanAllah just the
sheer number of Muslims around really here and
where we are in London It's it's I
guess I can't get over Seeing as many
hijabs and Muslims in the street and the
many shops that are also Muslim owned and
such We don't really have something like this
in America unless you go to Dearborn, Michigan
Otherwise, this is quite unique and very fascinating
to me MashaAllah, and I remember you were
telling me about a bus Sign that you
saw a bus billboard As soon as I
came out of the airport, the very first
thing I saw was the red double-decker
bus But it had a photo of Mufti
Mink that I thought to myself.
Is this typical what you have this on
your double-decker?
I think it was a welcome sign for
you.
Welcome to Britain Alhamdulillah.
Yes, that is London.
MashaAllah Growing up.
Dr. Rania Who were your role models?
Well, first and foremost, I'd have to say
my parents You know really cherish and honor
both were pioneers in their own ways Had
a very strong work ethic and also made
sure to instill in us the Dean I
think that was something very important.
I remember as a very young girl my
father insisting that even even as a young
young child and he would say so gently
and so beautifully come with me to pray
and and I just love that love standing
next to him to pray and Instilling those
early values Later in life as an adolescent
I had the opportunity to go to Damascus
Syria for the first time to study and
then continued on many years Back and forth
the woman that I met there my woman
teachers the Shaykhats were really very instrumental incredible
role models people who Really we say the
proof is in the pudding You see the
balance of being a mother a wife But
also somebody who has a career in education
and has their Dean studies that combination is
not common Yeah, subhanAllah It was describes almost
all of the woman that I studied with
and so it was at an impressionable age
as a teenager That was very instrumental.
I think for me these role models Yeah,
I think you made a really you point
to something really important out.
I think I'm noticing more and more now
that people who have a Above average Islamic
education, you know have gone into the in
in terms of their studies are also now
coming into different professions and so The Dean
is informing their professional work and I feel
like that's you know, it's something that probably
Is true for you as well.
So I wanted to ask you What inspired
you to pursue both?
Psychiatry and Islamic studies and how have both
of the fields?
I don't know helped each other Or shaped
your life Well, it's interesting subhanAllah because I
had no intention to enter into the field
of psychiatry and I didn't necessarily foresee that
really The Dean studies came first and it
was very much a personal journey something that
I Wanted to pursue for my own my
own sake.
I had no intention necessarily to Become a
teacher of the Dean.
This is something I'll know puts in your
loft subhanAllah, but in so doing Teaching in
the community coming back from Syria teaching in
the community teaching classes and such That's what
it became clear to me that the community
needed more help and assistance in the mental
health realm and domain But it was a
field that was very suspicious of and very
unsure I wanted to enter but it was
encouraged by those around me my husband in
particular who just felt like You know, there
are not many people trained in the Dean
and can actually assist the mental health of
our communities So I actually took a very
last-minute pivot from medical school into psychiatry
where I was supposed to be doing something
else actually and and at that point entered
into the field where I was with a
lot of trepidation As to what is this
field exactly but felt there's a lot of
benefit in it as much as there could
be harm in it but also there's much
to learn and My personal journey where they
intertwined was trying to figure out where it's
done Connects with mental health because I'd never
heard of a connection growing up Not from
the member not from classes not from our
teachers hmm, and that was a very personal
journey to trying to figure out well What
did the early Muslims have to say about
this field of psychology and psychiatry and was
amazed on what I found really Well, I
was actually looking up on the way here
what's the difference between psychiatry and Psychology because
people often, you know mix up the two
terms or use them interchangeably and Just to
ask you like have I got this, right?
usually a psychiatrist is somebody who had who's
a medical doctor who then specializes in psychiatry
whereas psychologists can be PhDs or you know,
they've done studies in psychology to certain level
and then they focus more on The different
therapies that are available.
Would you say that's a good rough summary?
I think that is a good summary psychiatrists
are in fact medical doctors.
They go through medical school.
Yeah, and Another distinction is they're able to
prescribe medications, right?
Yes, exactly both diagnose conditions And yes psychologists
will lean more into the talk therapies, for
example Right.
Yeah You said you talked about being a
little bit, you know worried or not unsure
about going into Psychiatry, I think that kind
of mirrors How a lot of Muslims yes
in our times feel about the whole topic
of mental health I wanted to ask you
like, okay, there's this perception especially from Muslims
in the West that The West tends to
pathologize Everything, you know like or modernity.
Let's talk about modernity, you know the modern
world wants to label everything and call it
a particular illness and you know the diagnoses
of various mental health conditions have Definitely increased
over the last decades would say more people
have become aware of it But I guess
there's a bit of a suspicion there Amongst
I think the Muslim community, especially when you
know when I speak to people That people
are being over diagnosed or you know, as
I said pathologized, you know like Looking at
for example, the brothers sisters in Palestine and
we see the resilience we see mental strength,
right I Think it's causing a lot of
us to question, you know, have we?
Kind of are we, you know surrounding our
children with cotton wool.
Are we are we kind of Overprotecting them
over pathologizing if you could speak a little
bit about that.
What do you think?
It's true that there is something to be
said in this in this current modern era
If you will particularly now in a time
where the discussions around mental health are much
more Are being had much more often and
diagnoses.
Yes are much more common There's always this
debate on is there actually more mental illness
than there was before or is it just
a recognition and naming and a labeling?
Right of potential conditions that had been existence
from prior Exactly, like are people more willing
to talk about it now, right?
And I think yes, that is true Yes,
the reality is you get into any sort,
you know, if you follow Anybody entertainers musicians
athletes anybody who's got a mic a platform?
Mm-hmm.
They're very open these days about their mental
health challenges and conditions in a way that
hadn't been even just a decade ago So
there's much more especially after the pandemic.
There's been much more willingness to speak about
a mental health openly So there's that Aspect
there's also the aspect of yes It does
seem that there's much more fragility in the
generations that are coming through and less of
the resilience We had seen prior yet Teaching
that and instilling the resilience is going to
be very important because as much as the
mental health system can help with The talk
therapies the medications and so on this is
not going to necessarily in itself build the
resilience All right.
It actually has to be something that starts
at home first Okay.
Well, then I've got to ask you, you
know as a parent Your parent as well.
How do you build?
resilience in that next generation Well, you mentioned
Palestine's funnel and I think this is on
all of our minds at the moment and
so many people not just Muslims the world
has been Amazed and what we see particularly
coming out of Gaza, but really everywhere as
well from Palestine and when you talk when
you see that kind of Samud is the
word that they are often kind of this
steadfastness and resilience and A commitment to their
land and to their and to their heritage
is is powerful Also the faith aspect because
that builds resilience quite often as well People
from the faith background who understand that there
are tests and trials in this dunya in
this world that we're in and there is
an After there's a hereafter coming in which
there's going to be rest and tranquility.
So what happens here?
This as the scholars say the dunya is
dotted by that the abode of trials and
tribulation When you have that you're more resilient
That understand you're more resilient because you understand.
Oh, it's meant to be this way It's
not meant to always be this constant pursuit
of happiness The eternal happiness is coming in
the akhira though.
We want to be from so I doubt
a dotting, right?
We want to be have happiness in both
abodes.
That's the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam
This is a common draw out that he
would make So we don't want to be
you know, not happy in the dunya, but
we realize it's not ultimate happiness here.
That's coming later right, so like could you
give us some ideas for example of practical
things that Parents can do or yeah practical
steps or practical things that parents might do
to Build that resilience, you know in the
early years Well, one of the things I
think is very important.
This is very age-appropriate It needs to
be done age-appropriate at the right times
But definitely by the time you know a
child has reached adolescence it would be very
important that they're able to see and serve
those who have less than themselves and whether
that be Putting them into volunteer opportunities serving
opportunities or even travel just to be able
to see other communities and other individuals how
they live and Compare and contrast that to
their own, you know their own upbringing To
understand that many times they do come from
much more privilege than the next person over
and that in itself It still is important
properties.
Sometimes we see parents like you said, you
know, just really Coddling their children and no
no, no They're too young They're actually not
too young to be able to serve and
too young to be able to see and
understand how others around them are Living I
think that's one of the core values that
needs to be instilled early on in children
And I'm guessing also like their connection with
Allah Because as a parent you can't always
be there for them.
You don't know what the future holds But
if they kind of have that strong relationship
with Allah where they're talking to him, they
know he's there they can I don't want
to say any it's a bit like therapy,
but in the sense that you know It's
a direct line of communication.
It's right.
Absolutely the the one who can actually help
you right with any situation that you're in
I Do personally feel for example from a
young age just my mom teaching us to
make the art And just having that whatever
was going on.
It's talking to Allah Just really helped absolutely
and the kids pick it up Funny enough
the other day my youngest We were out
of stopped at a red light and suddenly
we heard him from the back of the
car say yeah Allah make it turn green
And he goes Alhamdulillah, and we just were
so amazed because we hadn't specifically taught him
this or even just to raise his little
hands and say Yeah, you know, but he
had picked it up from the environment of
the household around making the dua And then
kind of even even for something as simple
as a red light stopped in traffic But
they can make dua for this and that
Allah does listen.
SubhanAllah I think those are very important early
lessons to be had.
Yeah, definitely What do you think are the
biggest mental health challenges Facing the Muslim communities
in the West today quite a big community
them I've covered And how can we address
them effectively I would say one of the
first issues to really talk about is recognition
as in to say Being willing to admit
in the first place that there are concerns
and issues It's not that Muslims have any
more levels of depression or anxiety or other
things than other folks But it's the willingness
to admit that these are the case.
Yeah, I think very often we end up
just sort of Ignoring I use this term
of brushing issues under the masjid rug.
Yeah, and not really speaking of them openly
yeah, or shaming and guilting either ourselves or
each other if that if we were to
have this and using their religious language like
You know shame on you Allah has given
you this and that you know, don't you
see all the privilege you have?
How dare you be sad?
Why are you feeling this way?
Don't be this way have better.
Amen.
Go pray more There's a lot of it's
very negative Connotations with something that could be
very biological, you know hormonal genetic even Where
it could be situational or environmental and then
we neglect our own Sita to be honest
I mean we I always marvel about when
people say no.
No.
No, what is this mental health thing this
Western construct?
What is this thing and I say have
you not heard of the year of sorrow?
I'm in Hussain for the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu
Alaihi Wasallam That wasn't a day or a
week or a month That was an entire
year in the Sita in which multiple incidents
happened to the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and
he was down Yeah, so much so that
the Sahaba we have in the narrations that
so much of the Sahaba amongst themselves started
to say to each other Shall we intervene?
Because he's so down and if they want
to make an intervention They wanted to be
exactly and subhanAllah and it makes sense.
You know, you lose your wife.
Well, actually they did because sorry, sorry to
interrupt you but I've just been writing about
Aisha Radilana and Khawla bint Hakeem.
She was a one of the Sahabiyat.
She actually Was worried about the Prophet Sallallahu
Alaihi Wasallam and she came and she said
this was about two or three years after
Khadija Radilana's passing and she said I think
it's time for you to get married.
Would you like to get married again?
Can I help you to do that?
You know, so that was the type of
Intervention.
Yes.
Yes, if you're right and also within Aam
Al-Huzur there was definitely some interventions as
well I use that example to illustrate that
if this is our blessed Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi
Wasallam Khayri Khalqillah, right the best of all
of creation and Can it feel such deep
levels of grief and sorrow?
What about the rest of us?
I mean this is these are real human
emotions that Allah has created and he's also
created the antidote And this is you know
a clear message in our Deen You have
the Hadith of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam
that says لكل داء دواء To every illness
there is a treatment.
There is it there is something you can
do about this condition and Allah has Definitely
promised that if he sent any tribulations or
trials to humanity illnesses Especially that there's also
going to be a treatment or cure We
just have to have the ingenuity to find
it which is what the early Muslims did
This is what my research was showing that
they absolutely even mental illness if they saw
it in front of them they were willing
to engage with it willing to create treatments
and Treatment centers healing centers the daughter she
passed right to treat these illnesses and conditions
They didn't shy away from this and I
think one of the back to the modern
Muslim community communities We are shying away from
a lot of the things that our Early
noble predecessors did not shy away from and
I think that's important difference So you're saying
being more willing to entertain accept or even
look into consider that mental health is something,
you know that affects people and not being
afraid to Have something diagnosed or seek help
right and to seek help and I would
also say that This is not because of
a person is sinful or because they have
poor iman They're not a good Muslim or
you know, not a good believer.
This kind of rhetoric that's often used It's
very detrimental and is absolutely contrary to what
we know about the Sunnah, but do you
think some?
Like behaviors some symptoms if you like if
you want to call them that and I'm
not talking about like clinical depression or clinically
diagnosed illnesses, but Life in life, you know
Because I think the term mental health covers
quite a broad it is a spectrum of
things So there are some things that are
affected for example by a person since right?
I'm not saying that, you know, we would
diagnose people and blame their sins for But
if I'm talking from an Islamic perspective, you
know, we believe in the diseases of the
heart Certain behaviors do Cause a person to
spiral sometimes So, how do we how would
you kind of characterize the balance between that
because we don't want to completely say actually
You're not there's no sins.
There's no Absolutely, you have to look at
it very holistically I think that's what's so
beautiful about our Dean is that it takes
all aspects into consideration So in mental health
conditions, one of the terms we use often
is it's multifactorial Meaning it can come from
multiple potentially different aspects or even overlap.
So like I said biological environmental also spiritual
this is an aspect a bucket if you
will of why people might feel there's such
a thing as an existential crisis a crisis
of faith or a person doing that You
know because of how they had lived their
life that they are now Facing the consequences
and are depressed about it or anxious about
it.
This is true I think what I've tried
to say is not to only narrow down
just to Everything has to do with or
is blamed on a person's spiritual state You
know, but it's one of the aspects that
definitely contributes to the conditions.
Absolutely definitely, and I think that's what I
really appreciate about the idea of Islamic psychology
because I myself have actually sought help for
certain times in life and I have noticed
a point of difference between going to somebody
who Doesn't have that Islamic, you know side
informing their practice if you like and someone
who does I feel like Because we have
a certain epistemology we have a certain worldview
Having somebody who actually who understands that like
you said and understands that those factors as
well, you know, I found that to be
More valuable.
Yes, personally.
I do have a bias and the bias
is that particularly aspects that are Mild to
moderate we say conditions related to mental health
Or identity based or related to your faith
or your family or your background that be
a person that comes from a Muslim background
So that there is that shared value This
is what we would call Muslim mental health
as in the person is Muslim to in
the field of mental health Islamic psychology is
another level if you will they're related fields,
but not exactly the same Islamic psychology is
where now there's an integration of Islamic principles
into the therapy process and that's even more
powerful Not everybody necessarily will seek this out.
But for those who want it, it's Incredibly
important because then you're able to use the
very coping mechanisms.
We talked about resilience earlier we talk, you
know, you think about all the aspects of
how we use aspects from the Sita and
from the Sunnah and from the Quran even
to be able to then heal This is
also powerful, but it requires a study of
Islam not just being a Muslim who's in
mental Could you give us some examples or
an example of how?
you know Islamic psychology would be different to
you know, just Ordinary psychologists like how would
the therapy be different or how would the
diagnosis be different?
Yeah, there are some differences and Mostly comes
down to integrating aspects principles from the Islam
from Islam into the therapy process We actually
wrote about this in the book you know
introducing traditionally Islamically integrated psychotherapy or the TIIP
model and but I've written with some colleagues
and You know the idea here is if
you take let's take a specific illness for
example, you take a condition like obsessive compulsive
disorder OCD if you think about somebody If
you think about how all people have West
West all people we know this it's a
lot created a certain level of kind of
West West up Obsession you might say I
would have been I'm gonna shit on a
regime kind of knock it out of the
way But certain people are going to have
a higher level and need it's a Clinton
fell asleep reached a clinical threshold That needs
to have intervention and the way you do
this If you will the gold standard treatments
is an exposure therapy you do gradual exposure
therapy And you can just do this with
somebody who's not Muslim But let's say the
issue is actually something that connects to your
Dean specifically Maybe the obsessions are happening related
to your will do or your prayers or
even your faith It's an iman based issue.
That is going that a person has having
basically cognitive obsessions and compulsions When you work
with somebody who's not Muslim, it may not
exactly hit the mark Although I'm sure they'll
be trained to help.
I always say some help is better than
no help at all Subhanallah, but if you
integrate the Islamic aspects into that treatment now,
it looks a little bit different now you
have for example And some of the patients
I've worked with that have OCD and let's
say it's about their will do You know
knowing for example that the maximum number of
times you should wash your limbs is three
And so we're trying to go from like
10 20 50 times Washing literally over and
over and over now to kind of bringing
them down to the limits of the Sunnah
and not beyond Right, you're putting these particular
boundaries in place and it takes some time.
It's gradual It takes some time But knowing
that you're working from a world view of
are we going to are you in agreement
with me that we're going to follow?
The Sunnah and not go beyond it right
or even the foot it it requires a
certain level of knowledge of the Dean and
then also The patient the client wanting that
integration in the first place, right?
But it does make a difference because you
start off from a different place in the
therapy if you will Yeah, because sometimes I
feel like when it comes to OCD people
Fear that they're not doing something properly or
they fear that they're not so in a
way.
It's connected to Allah Some way right in
their mind So if you use Islamic principles,
you say well Allah hasn't asked you to
do any more than this, right?
I feel like that's that's a very powerful
Tool it is and it has to be
that the person is receptive to this in
the first place I Find the principle, you
know the principle Alia keen laya Zulu Bishak.
I find it a so in English, you
know certainty is not Removed by by doubt.
I found that a very powerful tool when
teaching my kids because yeah Sometimes you see
a kid getting a little bit obsessive with
you know, we'll do or Salah or something
You say look and they say for example,
I don't know if I've got my wood
You know, and I feel like when you
if you know that principle, you can just
teach them straight away.
That's right, right?
What is the last thing that you are
definitely certain of there we go.
We're sticking to that right?
Are you sure?
Did you make wudu?
Yeah, I did Do you know that you
broke your wudu?
I'm not sure.
Okay in that case you have your wudu,
right?
you go back to the thing that you're
sure about and that's I think that's a
very powerful tool that parents can use to
kind of Get kids to not overly worry
Overly obsessed and understand that Allah doesn't want
more than that from you.
That's right The limits that the Sharia puts
in place are actually meant to be protective
to us SubhanAllah, and they can protect against
this excessive or obsessive kind of worries and
subhanAllah, it's it's a beautiful thing to see
this work in in real time and How
many people have been able to benefit from
it?
so we said that you know the The
term mental health it covers so much right
in our times this word depression, you know
people Throw it around quite a lot like
sometimes we use it casually right now.
I'm feeling a bit depressed But there's also
very serious types of depression, right?
I mean, I'm just looking at some statistics
for the UK one in four people will
experience a mental health problem of some kind
each year in England One in six people
report Experiencing a common mental health problem like
anxiety and depression in any given week in
England one in five people have Thoughts about
ending their own lives SubhanAllah when we read
that It's very sad But as the Muslim
community we should realize I guess that whatever
is affecting wider society You know, we are
part of these societies, right?
So we're going to also see some signs
of that.
Yes, we are and that's precisely what the
research in my lab is found actually and
Sometimes people are not very happy with that
research But it's to say we can't hold
on to these ideological beliefs that because we're
Muslims were absolutely immune To what's happening?
We are the products of our societies and
at the same time we do have our
Islam that is protective if Implemented and used
properly that's the other thing just merely being
Muslim isn't in itself going to protect you
quite enough and At the same time like
we gave the example the prophets of Allah.
I said, um, you could have the most
the the strongest believer I mean, nobody's going
to doubt the Prophet's connection with Allah subhanahu
wa ta'ala and his level of Iman
and prayer But it's a human condition to
be able to feel that sorrow and grief
when there's loss or difficulty happening And so
it's a balanced Point of view.
I just want to make sure that that's
like we stay on this kind of balanced
path.
Yes.
It is sad Yes it is concerning at
the same time we have a stamp to
draw from and Our Islam allows us to
take wisdom from wherever wisdom is sought and
Hikmah to bondage and movement, right?
So wisdom is the lost property of the
believer They take it from wherever they find
it if it's found in the medical field
Or if it's found in any health and
wellness field you may use that there's no
issue It's not just prayers and just to
have so I think that's the important Connection
that we are able to take all aspects
of health and healing wherever we may find
them So coming back to the topic of
depression, okay people use that term in such
a casual way you know, sometimes they dismiss
it and they say, you know, you've got
nothing to be depressed about this and I
guess as we said earlier, you know mental
health and even the words term depression.
It seems to have a spectrum of Meanings
Could you please explain to us like what
is depression and what do you think the
average Muslim should know about it?
clinically depression is You know is it we
basically say in the last two weeks if
a person has had symptoms in which they
have felt a lack of energy increased guilt
lack of interest issues with their sleep a
Poor mood right and maybe even to an
extreme they may also feel that they life
may not be worth living Any combination of
these symptoms for a span of two weeks
leads to us to believe that this could
be a clinical depression Colloquially though we do
use the word depression very commonly as in
to say I am feeling depressed isn't to
say I'm feeling down I'm kind of down
in the dumps.
I'm not feeling myself Right is different than
a clinical depression a clinical depression is, you
know Now we've reached that clinical threshold that
needs intervention Whereas a mild or moderate if
you will depression may not necessarily need direct
intervention from a professional or specialist you may
just have heard terrible news within your own
family or self or Globally in the world
and feel down and that you know, we
just simply will say depression But it's not
a clinical depression unless it's met that clinical
threshold and criteria right Yeah, because there's also
things that happen seasonally, right?
Like yes, I personally notice especially in gloomy
England, right During the winter months, you know,
I I actually noted notices and down So
there's certain things for example that I'm doing,
you know, please tell me if you think
these are the sorts of things people should
be doing for example waking up and Getting
sunlight as much sunlight as we can muster
in the UK, you know opening the curtains
getting out there actually having a walk I
feel like that Changes a lot.
It does and it's quite preventative.
Yes, especially in seasonal aspects, right?
There's such a thing as seasonal depression.
Yes, exactly seasonal affective disorder I think people
call it but that I don't think for
me it's as extreme as that But I'm
just saying I think in general, you know,
there's there's an effect of seasons another thing
I feel like that really helps is Getting
enough sleep.
Oh, because do you not think that sometimes
people there are physical things that we're doing
wrong?
Yes, that are then having Psychological effects things
like lack of sleep not eating in accordance
with your circadian rhythm, for example You know
having sort of chaotic routines Shift working and
things like that, you know, they also screens
all the time, right?
you know this kind of bubble this virtual
tech technological if you will belt bubble that
we've put ourselves in and Going our teachers
would tell us go out in nature Literally
rock barefooted if you need to go touch
a tree a tree, you know We were
telling this to people in the pandemic.
Yes, you may be on lockdown, but at
least get the fresh air Touch the tree
you feel something.
That's yes Yes, otherwise you're in this virtual
bubble and it really is problematic sleep is
so important in fact every mental health condition
that we have Sleep is Intrinsically related to
that condition as in to say if a
person is depressed Excellent sleep helps and it
makes the difference and poor sleep actually worsens
the condition They're intrinsically related So would you
say that?
At the initial stage at least if a
person is starting to feel, you know Challenges
with their mental health it would be worth
examining some of those kind of everyday Things
100% and what are the sorts of
things we talked about sleep.
Are there any other?
Things that yeah, if you think about in
terms of the criteria for something like depression
So you're looking at things like one's energy
one's appetite one sleep one's interest levels and
things that they enjoy doing hobbies, right?
Even this we asked specifically have you been
interested in doing the hot other things that
you typically like like your hobbies?
So being engaged in those things again would
be very helpful It helps the person climb
out of that hole that they've been in
right and then of course all aspects related
to mood So this is where what helps
you Bring up that mood again and for
everybody that answer is a little bit different
But investing in those things does ward against
the depression.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I do is I also keep a
list of Things that make me feel good
right on my phone.
I literally have a list of those things
things that are not related to food So
that hopefully they're they're more healthy and Sometimes
I just go to that list, you know,
I just think let me Fill my cup
a little bit There you go.
Masha'Allah, you know, it reminds me of
the work of what are the scholars that
I had written about?
Was an ability from the 9th century and
he talks about exactly what you're saying He
talks about a treasure trove of good thoughts
And he says just like the human being
if you were he gives example of physical
things so that we can understand that emotional
mental Health things psychological things So for example,
he says if a person was weather related
if a person's cold What do you do
you put on a coat a jacket and
if you're hot you remove that?
He says the same thing with your thoughts
if you need to protect yourself from the
thoughts make sure you have protective Ideas and
he says when you have happy days This
this concept of carpe diem, you know Like
when you have hot happy thoughts put them
in your treasure trove so that you may
pull for them In a quote rainy day.
Do you see what I'm saying?
He's writing about this in the 9th century
It reminds me of this diary that I
bought recently, which is like a line a
day diary right, and I use it as
a gratitude type journal and So every night
before I go to bed, I'll write one
thing just one sentence in that book.
It's right next to my bed It's something
that made me happy today something that I've
got to be grateful to for today yes,
and I literally right I'll handle Allah and
then something right and Doing that for a
whole year.
I think it's been wonderful because yes you
just you know, even on days when you're
feeling down or some you've had a setback
of some sort because That happens right in
life You can look back and you're like
a little you know, there's something to my
cup is full Yes, there's something to have
gratitude for in fact I would say, you
know parents won't ask their children when they
come home from school or just after they've
been out and they'll say You know the
typical what did you do in school today?
And the kids will be like nothing Yeah,
maybe switch the question to what are you
thankful for today?
Oh You know as in to say Again,
we teach resilience from an early age What
is you teach shook it and hummed from
an early age and you teach them this
concept?
When I in check out on that as
he done that come right like if you
think of all says if you think me
I'll increase you if you're coming from a
place of shook and gratitude, even if you've
had a rough day There's still something to
be thankful for and I know that you
have masha'Allah specialized in the car out
of the Quran Masha'Allah, I wanted to
know how can people use the Quran as
part of that, you know healing It's incredible.
The Quran in itself is a healing it
literally it's a she felt and Allah says
so right and it's the reading of it
the Memorizing, of course and also just the
contemplation that to double and it's a fuck
good This is actually the content of our
newest book inshallah And the lab is on
you know, the field of psychology has run
with the concept of mindfulness meditation Yeah, and
there is a lot of evidence that this
is very useful personally, I Take a little
bit of issue in the fact that its
origins are from Buddhist origins now secularized And
I believe that our Islamic Teachings are so
much much stronger actually and more useful in
my personal opinion to Muslims if they're able
to do that if they are able to
do the tafakkur and tadabbur That is directly
from the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi
wa sallam.
Could you explain those terms for our listeners
and viewers?
Tadabbur is the Pondering the meanings of the
Quran and we're told to do so as
you read the Quran Contemplate think about what
it is that you're reading connect with it
and everyone connects in a different way you
have a scientist who's going to connect to
all these scientific aspects of the Quran a
Linguist is going to look at the poetry
in the language of the Quran a person
who is coming from a psychological background I
tend to do this and more recently be
doing it more looking at it from a
psychological lens and just contemplating So tadabbur, tafakkur
is the contemplation where you're literally sitting there
and thinking not just about the Quran But
also your relationship with it your relationship with
Allah Azawajal your relationship with the human beings
around you This is where our spiritual teachers
will say to us once you do that
even people who have seemed very egregious The
fir'auns of your life if you will,
right?
They will literally start to shrink back to
real size because you realize above every fir
'aun is Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala You
can only get to that point if you
practice these tafakkur, tadabbur.
Tadabbur is doing dhikr of Allah, right?
Yeah, and and you know praising Allah and
finding what is easy on your tongue Maybe
it's a salawat on the Prophet sallallahu alayhi
wa sallam.
Maybe it's alhamdulillah.
Maybe it's astaghfirullah Whatever it may be But
using this to just pause and one of
the things that I've used personally in my
own life Especially in a year such as
we've had this has been such a difficult
year for the Muslim Ummah Is Just taking
some time for pause.
I do this personally as an i'tikaf, right
which Individuals can do the men in their
masajid, the women in their homes Or in
a in just taking an aside similar to
what the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was
doing in a lot of hira Clearly taking
that time When there's heaviness that is happening
Was part of his sunnah even before nabuwah
and afterwards of course becomes like an i'tikaf
that he does very regularly We do need
to start doing that the fact that we
don't pause one of my teachers would say
she would say i'tikaf is like the Handle
the pressure cooker the little valve on the
pressure cooker if you don't turn it It's
gonna explode right if you don't let the
valve Release that steam it's going to explode
and she says that valve is i'tikaf every
person especially in the modern world i'tikaf darura
she would say like it's in the modern
world It's literally a necessity because we don't
pause quite enough to be able to contemplate
reflect connect back to ourselves connect to our
Lord connect to the people around us and
also just Evaluate those relationships in the light
of is Allah pleased with this or not.
It's powerful actually it is I'm just you
just got me thinking about my dad because
he ever since I've known him obviously he's
in childhood he He's been doing i'tikaf every
single year without fail in this country.
Yes or abroad and those ten days, especially
in Ramadan and You know just seeing him
as a child.
I think wow like nobody else is doing
this at that time Especially when we were
younger.
It was quite rare and I can see
now that you know, he has certain strength
a certain Wisdom and resilience.
Yes, absolutely resilience and sometimes we say that
don't we that the previous generation had a
certain toughness to them certain resilience that We
wish that we had yes I really do
think there's so much to be learned from
the son of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa
sallam and So much of what happens in
i'tikaf of course is the reading recitation and
the contemplation of the Quran as you mentioned
They're asked earlier about the Quran.
I Do believe like our teachers are teaching
us.
It's such a fast-paced life I live
in California Silicon Valley.
It is just Constant.
It's the rat race and if you don't
purposefully built in into your schedule time for
pause and reflection You'll just be overtaken And
our Dean does that for us, you know
if we follow even just the Farah it
right like the fact that we have those
five prayers.
Yes The fact that we have the other
car of the morning of the evening we
We get those times to pause Absolutely.
I love this.
I if I could share kind of an
example of also them something I've heard my
teachers say about prayer.
They would say life is like a merry
-go-round But then when the prayer comes
in it's like somebody presses the pause and
it's suddenly all of this chaos suddenly shifts
back into focus and You can see the
dunya for what it is and the akhira
for what it is Right and you actually
end up becoming much more balanced.
All right.
Did you get your perspective back?
Yes.
Yes Sometimes you should get out of the
space that you're immersed in to get that
perspective.
That's right Dr. Rania, I wanted to ask
you lastly, what is your vision for mental
health in the Muslim community going forward?
What would you love?
Muslims to internalize to know and Also with
your work with the Maristan organization if you
could speak to that your vision for the
future.
Yes That is actually my vision right there
What is Maristan if you could yes, Maristan
is the shortened latinized term for be modest
on be modern meaning illness in the Farsi
original Persian Language and then stand being a
location the Arabic of this word is daughter.
She thought it's the centers of healing The
Muslims didn't call their hospitals hospitals they call
them centers of healing and this is a
hundred other book that's just about to be
published and handed on that we spent many
years now writing about the Maristons is Really
the blueprint that I see forward inshallah to
Allah.
I pray that in our lifetime We can
see this revival happen and a bridging to
the modern System as in to say it's
not that we're just reviving something.
That's historical We are because it worked subhanallah
and we are because the modern mental health
system today is fragmented and broken in many
ways I feel that Muslims have so much
to contribute Not just to the Muslim communities,
but to humanity And so what are these
Maristons?
These were the healing centers and our research
shows that and until we find anything else,
you know as far as we could tell
Many civilizations before the Muslims had hospitals.
That's not new But what was new was
these Maristons were the very first time in
human history that we see Bringing psychiatry and
mental health into the hospital system Side by
side with all the other physical health issues
internal medicine obstetrics surgery ophthalmology so on and
so forth Right next to these wards or
sections of the hospitals also psychiatry This was
something that Muslims did and when you think
about how do they?
Do that before anybody else really contemplated this
or thought this and I'm talking 8th century
9th cent early Phenomenal and what it is
is really this understanding from the Dean itself
But if Allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala sends down
an illness, he sends a treatment and if
they see anything in front of them including
mental illness They did not discriminate they brought
it into their healing centers, but it wasn't
just Medication and it wasn't just talk therapies.
And yes, they did work on the talk
therapies Belki, in fact is one of the
most amazing people that worked on specific forms
of talk therapy.
Our early scholars had But they also use
the five senses so we're talking about the
use of color the use of sound the
use of Spirituality the connection to Allah subhanahu
wa'ta'ala Your care team within the Madison
was not just the doctors and the nurses
but your dietitian because food Equals health right
and poor eating also equals disease subhanallah They
had pharmacists.
So they did compound medications on-site and
actually take oral medication even for psychological things
And they had with them the spiritual leader
the person who today we might call like
a chaplain Yes to give religious and spiritual
advice they had the person who today we
might call them like a social worker who
took care of the affairs of the patient
within the hospital and after discharge The reason
I write so much about this and I'm
so passionate about it is because it's very
holistic It's mind body and soul.
You look at the very buildings and like
when we think about Islamic architecture you think
of perfection geometry San and like our my
teacher, you know, one of my dear mentors
Dr. Mostafa, but that we would say in
his new book that he wrote the spiritual
significance of Islamic architecture.
Nothing was done haphazardly Every arch every dome
every every, you know fountain every greenery that
they put in was done for purposefully for
allowing tranquility and healing that whole collective Concept
of healing is missing in the modern mental
health system today.
It's not enough to just have the pills
They're important in some cases.
It's not enough just have the talk therapies
They too are important in some cases, but
it's not sufficient So the idea of the
medicine is actually to revive this concept in
Charlotte's Islam and to be able to Allow
all people to benefit from it in the
early Muslims the early Muslims had in their
Madestan's they treated all people not just Muslims
and even the people who worked in the
Madestan's weren't almost some either and So it
was really an institution for the community But
it was driven by Islamic principles and understanding
even the endowments Off that that was that
funded this were a lot of private donors
if you will who?
This was their Sadaqah Jariyya.
This is what they wanted as their heritage
their legacy they were going to leave behind
and it sustained these institutions for centuries upon
Allah amazing beauty and true sense of healing
from the inside and out This is the
dream inshallah.
So dr.
Ronnie are there any resources that you can
share for our viewers and listeners?
Yes, definitely, I would love to point people
to the website madestan ma ma r I
St a n org or G and there
is a resource tab there on the website
And when you go to that resource tab,
you'll find many different resources everything from the
YouTube channel that talks about Islam and mental
health to Downloadable resources, for example right now.
There's a guidebook there How for those who
are concerned about Palestine, right?
How do you cope with everyone that's happening?
There's another resource specific to students those who
are on college campuses dealing with a lot
of backlash How do they how do they
cope through all of this?
There are other resources for example Khutbas that
we've written for khatibs and imams to talk
about mental health from the member that are
accurate Islamically for the fiqh of the khutbah
plus the mental health information We have directories
on various Muslim mental practitioners and clinicians in
various parts of the world And so I
hope a lot of these resources can be
helpful to individuals.
They're right there Also, I should mention Madison
has monthly free open to everybody Learning circles
related to mental health in Islam So this
is a topic of interest Join that mailing
list so that you can get that information
every month if you wish and join that
healing circle or learning circle And the reason
the trainings that we offer as well So
and this is in addition to any clinical
resources a lot of educational resources on Islam
and mental health that are actually Taken from
the lab itself the Stanford Muslim mental health
and Islamic psychology lab Madison takes that very
academic Clinical information and translates it to the
community and makes it available to the community
Al-jazak Allah and inshallah.
We will put some of those links in
the description for this video.
Excellent Al-jazak Allah Dr. Rania if you
have any final message that you'd like to
give our viewers and listeners First of all,
thank you.
It's been wonderful to have this conversation I
would say, you know, I I would want
individuals that are listening to this to keep
that open mind to really think about Reflect
on some of the messages today and say,
you know Could this be myself my loved
one somebody in my family and and if
it's not you you're feeling like no, no
No, I don't have any of these issues
Also to reflect on are you ever a
barrier potentially to somebody getting the help that
they need and support the support they need
I think about standing in front of Allah
as we all go alone on that last
day and I'm asking us questions about You
know decisions we've made and I just don't
want to ever be that person where I'm
asked by Allah I've given you knowledge.
I've given you resources.
I've given you access Why did you prevent
either yourself or someone else from getting care
and support and help?
We just don't want to be that person
subhanAllah.
I'm on a college campus I work with
young, you know transitional aged youth all the
time and a lot of them get it
this age this generation They get the mental
health story and but they'll say I can't
come to get help.
Why not?
My parents won't let me or They're worried
if I start seeking counseling, I won't get
married or you know something I won't be
able to find a spouse, you know things
like this Yeah and the prevention is from
somebody else in the family who's Worried about
what will people think and say when really
we should be worried about Let's make sure
that they are the most resilient Yeah, and
healthy that they can be as they go
out so that this doesn't affect them for
life, for example Thank you, Dr. Rani, it's
been a pleasure.
I hope you come and visit us again.
Absolutely.
I would love to Barakallahu fikum Jazakallahu khairan
Well, jazakallahu khairan brothers and sisters for listening.
Make sure you like this video and leave
a comment.
Tell us what you think about Islamic mental
health and How the topics that we discussed
today have affected you, you know Maybe you
have a story that you'd like to share
with us.
We'd love to hear from you Inshallah with
that.
I'm going to bid you farewell Jazakallahu khairan
Wassalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh Subhanakallahumma wabihamdik
Ashhadu an la ilaha illa anta Astaghfiruka wa
atubu ilayk