Edris Khamissa – Inspirate Business

			salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu. Welcome to inspirate business, the show that's here to
inspire you, to empower you and to enlighten you. And today on our red hot couch, we have none other
than brother Idris camisa, somebody for who is a mentor to me, somebody that is a mentor to many,
many people in our community around the globe, a world renowned icon. Idris is and we should, as
South Africans be so proud, I believe, to have somebody of the statue of Idrees who who gives off so
much of himself. A lot of times volunteering, just in terms of helping our our OMA address is got
his hands I know, on the pulse when it comes to what are the challenges that our society is going
		

			through welcome uncle Idris, fondly known as oncology, so I'll be interchanging some time saying
uncle Idris and Idris in the formal, you know, stature, welcome oncologists walaikum salam
		

			is always good to interact with you, you know, you know, your wonderful dramatic introduction, you
know, would make another person nervous, you know, so but anyway, I feel uplifted by it. And I'm
sure inshallah Allah's blessing, we will not disappoint the viewers each other. So I only learned
from the best, I just have to give a quick rider you know, there was a time when I was, well, still
quite involved in your own personal development and traveling around the world and going to learn
and I bumped into this man who I didn't know, by the way, and he nudges another associate. And he
says, you know, this guy, he's puzzling, you know, he needs to now stop going to learn from others,
		

			and eventually come and go and do His own work. So, thanks, Don Calidris, who then nudged me to
start a journey on expressing my own gifts. I'm sitting here today. So that was just something that
I needed to share. Actually, I'm curious, thank you so much, because I think I needed that a wake up
call, you know, you know, they say people constantly develop and learn and, and then don't say you
have to be doing I see that's a good point that you raise. Not because you're waxing lyrical about
me is that every individual is unique and he has something to offer. You have something to offer.
Offer it because when you offer it to other people, what are you doing, you give them the meaning in
		

			their life, you're uplifting them. You're healing them, you're giving them self worth and all of us
being part to the Almighty of Nabi SallAllahu, wasallam should feel the self worth and say, What
difference Am I making to the lives of other people? So this self worth that you talk about? I mean,
I know you exude the self worth but it is a it is a challenge right now. Was this from your rearing
as a youngster and I think for many of us, maybe we don't know some of your close associates know.
And you talk a lot about chips, then the fund chips then tell us a little bit about your life
growing up. I know you were quite an extended family, your siblings with your your parents that
		

			Allah granted I mean, Jana as well. Tell us a little bit about that. And where did the self come?
Well, you always as confident as you are, you know what? I was really a shy clown. Okay, I was a shy
clown, right? I mean, for example, at school, if there was a magician that wants to volunteer, the
whole school will shout the teachers Cammisa camisa camisa. But I was really shy. And there are many
factors that contributed to my growth. The one is I grew up in a very loving family. And I grew up
with a father that had in a public profile, he was involved with the blind society with Forza with
the Muslim Association. He was director and producer of plays. And in our home, we had Muslims and
		

			non Muslims coming almost every day eating with us, we still get visitors almost every other day.
And, and my dad had this habit of he was quite an avid reader. And he said enjoy reading great
articles, the newspaper, and he's always asked me my opinion. And in that way, I felt a sense of
validation. Right? Then we had great teachers and I want to just this one tipping moment, it was a
tipping moment for me. i The teacher was a good friend is still alive and metamer may last week in
Cape Town smile. Kathrada was my father's friend and he said come home often and they were involved
with the place together. And so we now
		

			As in standard eight, that is grade 10.
		

			You know, it was an all boys class and the guys were very naughty. They're right. And I the teacher
of English and I don't want to name it. I am not too sure if he's alive. Anyway, he's to read like
the essays the visa, right? And, and the students who laugh at my mistakes, you know, in actual love
ha. So funny, sir. But no one knew that I should cry myself to sleep you see. And I never complained
to my dad because my dad was very clear. My dad was your two column martinet in a strict
disciplinarian. He told the teachers, the flesh is yours. The bones are mine. And my naivety, I
thought my father is going to give them good Barney meat, not the woods. Those are the old school
		

			principal, old school. Yes, old school. So anyway, what happened? The next year, smart contract that
was my teacher. And I remember this so vividly. I can almost remember web verbatim, what he said to
me. We're doing a poem called The gods Grandia. Right. And I was sitting at the back of the class.
And there was a young woman next to me ISIS, also gods. And so it, sauce pinching cheeks. So it
started at a young age, that this love doctor. So anyway, so I wasn't paying attention. Because I
had resigned myself to the fact that I'm useless in English. I resigned myself that you know what?
Nothing, I would say people take me seriously. So smack a brother, notice me? And his words, were
		

			I'm not this is going back, you know, 5253 years ago, whatever Idris for? He said, You're a naughty
boy. I said, No. He said, I am not leaving the class, until you give me your interpretation of the
last two lines of the poem.
		

			And you know me, if you do not give it to me, I will give you the cold shoulder. Do you want the
cold shoulder from me?
		

			Because I know what it meant, right? So anyway, I gave an answer to get him off my back.
		

			But I did not realize it was a profound answer. He said to the class, I want you to ignore my
interpretation. That is his interpretation. And I want you to take down Idris, his interpretation.
And he said to me this, why don't you give yourself a chance you have the ability, and what this was
reinforced when he went the next class to do the same poem. And he said, You know what, I'm sharing
with you Idris, his interpretation. And my cousin was part of the extended family. She told me that
evening SMAC Ultra was really praising you. And that that was a wow moment for me. From that day, I
became a voracious reader, I began to participate with Allah's blessing. Eight years after that, I
		

			became the chairman of the Indian society of South Africa. So the NIT good friends like AB Tao Ji
and other people in pushups. And so there are lots of factors that contributed to our growth, you
know, we, and it was, our home was a place of tranquillity. Every home had the challenges, but we
had parents that believed in us, you know, so I mean, how important is it and I think that's a
powerful lesson for, you know, the viewers watching is that, you know, a teacher that just nudges
you, and brings out that latent talent in you, you know, it can either teach a parent can make or
break a kid, because let's assume there was a negativity around it, you know, that could have broken
		

			you forever, and then you lose that gift. And then we'll have to find it later in life and peel off
all the darkness that we've put over our gifts. And this is very, very important also, that of
speaking positively to our kids, as a teacher, as an adult, as a parent, how important that is so
critical, you know, they say, a teacher is not a sage on the stage, but a guide on the side. It's
about that dynamic. In fact, you know, I'm so glad we're talking about this. And I'm very, very
parasitic on new knowledge. I want to learn even a story. We were in Turkey. We are part of a global
association, Islamic schools. They weigh about 70 of us present. And there are a number of things
		

			that were said that were very, very uplifting. Professor Abdullah May Allah bless him is in
Australia is a Palestinian brother. He's shared this powerful story of a teacher. This powerful
story is a story about a young boy, who was extremely naughty.
		

			And they put him in a special class. But this boy passed away. See, when the teacher got the news?
		

			He cried. So they were surprised. Why are you crying? Look at his response. Sam crying because Allah
sent this boy to teach me patience. Look, how deep is that? To teach me patience? No, this is a
whole thing using that in the school system. Each person has unique personality. If all students
were self motivated, they were driven, they were intrinsically motivated, there is no need for a
teacher. Your true tests crucible is when you can help that individual who is reluctant and
demotivated and you've had so many experiences of this hair, having been a teacher yourself, who's
up to today doing such amazing work with, you know, in the business circles as well with
		

			organizations in terms of their own development, you know, the Employee Personal Development, which
is, I believe today, the key advantage for many organizations is that human capital, harnessing and
nurturing and development that is the edge I mean, you everything else with technology is pretty
much been automated. But that creates a force which I think can never ever be automated, that is
that that human soul and to bring that out that Allah has given us that gift. So we've come to the
end of the first segment been enlightened and intrigued by and by the way looking extremely handsome
today, he's always handsome, looking extra special. Maybe because he's on the spray business show I
		

			like to believe so, but looking extremely handsome. So, let us explore this a tapping into that
human soul and its development, which UGC is caught his 10,000 hours, the subject area expert on
immediately after the break.
		

			Welcome back to inspirate business where we have none other than this world renowned educationalist.
A practitioner in human capital development
		

			a name that's anonymous, in the South African circles internationally as well. Uncle Idris Cammisa.
So we were talking in the previous segment about your days in poor Cheston this rearing, how a
teacher, you know, nudged you to to find that latent talent in you, which then got you to be an avid
reader. And you then went on, I believe, to do your masters in English was but yeah, yes. And and
have continued and then you you went and you became a teacher? So, you know, at the time, I mean, I
guess there were the options, which most young Indian men have the option of going into business, or
you're going to the professional now, just let's get an understanding what made you get into this
		

			field? Okay, what actually happened was a I went to university to become a lawyer. Okay, right. So
		

			this is a case that didn't care and midstream, I met up with an accident, right? Okay. And so it
affected my studies. And so I said, you know, what, two years at the university, I don't be a
parasite, I'm going back home, I went home, my father said to me, son of my sons, you're the last
one to open a business, your heart is too soft. And he told me, then there was his opportunity of
being a locum
		

			at the school teacher of English. And I remember, when I went there to the classroom,
		

			I realized then, being on the other side, the power a teacher has either to liberate the mind of the
child, to sabotage him, to give him hope, you know, the power you had, and it was frightening. Then
I said, I like it. I began to love it. And, and I think, you know, maybe this is purely anecdotal.
But because I was naughty, as a student, not do my homework at times, whatever playful. I think as a
result of that, I'm more sympathetic than those teachers that did the homework all the time. The
less patient with
		

			Children and I felt a lot put in my heart love for children love to understand who they are a love
the psychology and so I am an avid reader regarding this. So this is what I began to do you know,
I'm the law. So you then you you were you were a teacher and then you I lectured also the university
in Cape Town on didactics and methodology and you've been
		

			provinces? Yes, yes. I mean, at one stage we're in roughly Yes, you in Cape Town as well. So you
you've quite traveled, traveled right. And as an education is now what then then spurred you on to
because although you say your your father told you not to get into entrepreneurship in the formal
sense, you are an entrepreneur right now. Because you use in that Amana that Allah has given you
this gift which you found this purpose of expressing it to
		

			kids in a class. Now you do it for organizations, as a businessman through education, what what made
you then leave the formal teaching fraternity into the education in the business world, one of the
things that I learned, you know, that in life, you must diversify, you got to diversify. And all of
us have the capacity to embrace new knowledge. In the end, whatever you say, be business teaching,
it's about relationship dynamics, is basically about who you are. And that's critical. You know,
when you engage in business, when people come to you, do you inspire confidence in the other person?
Do they believe and trust you? Would they take your recommendations seriously? Do you have the
		

			approach about win win situation, or you're the kind of person that wants to exploit others, it's
about only profiteering at the expense of others in so this is the whole issue. And the critical for
me a critical thing. And I've Alhamdulillah I love to read a, I'm excited about reading. You know,
I've learned one fundamental thing. And the point that you made earlier on, that some people
erroneously believe it suffices to teach people technical skills, but technical skills everyone can
embrace. But the what is far more important are the soft skills, developing the right attitudes, a
spirit of teamwork, professionalism, about unleashing the creativity, about validation. And all of
		

			these things are critical, because you got to understand that all of us are products of life
experiences. And then sadly, you got some business enterpreneurs or some business people to not
invest enough in the employees. A In fact, one of the things I say to people, that if I were to do a
program for your company, there are three benefits. Number one, that individual will be far more
productive. Secondly, be far more professional. And thirdly, which for me, is the most important
thing, he'll be a better human being his spouse's will say what a man his children would recognize
who he is. So, they love those programs and the other world summited give me a unique aspect to it,
		

			how I go about doing this is the following and, and I was also inspired by a statement someone made
his someone asked him, How do you employ?
		

			He says, I employ people based on attitude.
		

			He said attitude, what about the skill is a skill that can teach, but if he doesn't have the
attitude, I cannot help you. Skill, technical skill that can teach. Now you got to understand as
human beings, we are gregarious social beings, we are friends and we are family. People have
realized if the man is happier, Tom is far more productive in the workplace, right? So what So what
do I do is say I come to you. And I say to yourself, Okay, fine. I'm here.
		

			What are your challenges? It says that, I say, okay, my suggestion is maybe let me do a program only
for your managers. And I'll call it moving for management to leadership. Right? Then what I would do
I make it clear, and I will interview all of them before I do the program. I say to them, Listen, I
don't want it to appear is coming top down. I say listen, I'm going to do this program. This is what
I'm going to include the what else you'd like me to include, so they are happy to participate. Then
I'll produce 120 on a 30 page menu with the notes and worksheets and whatnot.
		

			And then I say to them in a month to six months, six weeks time, I'm going to evaluate you, you got
to show me evidence of what you have done differently. And after I do that a minister questioner,
then I'll produce 130 or 150 Page feedback, which can include graphs do include recommendations,
observations. So people find that very, very useful. Right. So the bottom line is this, you know,
especially after the lockdown, the looting, people's personalities have changed. People have become
despondent, they've come inward looking. Extroverts have become introverts. There's a knee jerk
reactions, far more road rage now than ever before. This is far more divorces than ever before. So
		

			we need people to get a grip on this life, you know, how we can maintain positivity, because as
Muslims, you suppose the positive all the time, no matter what you're going through, we'd not give
up because nothing happens except the middle of a line. You know, there's some very powerful things
that you've spoken about. Yeah, that number one, look, business. A lot of people focus on the
strategy of business. And it is very, very important. I mean, you need to understand operational
strategies, marketing strategies, financial strategies, those are the mechanics of business. And
there's so much of information that's available out there. And I think that's those are functions
		

			now that technology is enabling. I mean, you can have spreadsheets and you know, these now,
		

			there's apps now around, you know, even putting the business plan together, you know, just filling
your information in there.
		

			What spits out is actually your entire forecast. So all of that is, but that, that development of
the soul, that development of the individual, which makes up the culture of the organization, and
they talk about this, they say, culture will eat strategy for breakfast any day in business. And I
think that's the differentiator for businesses. I mean, you look at the leading companies, Apple has
got its own unique culture, Google's got its own unique culture, you know, and it is about
harnessing data. And I think that's the lesson for a lot of us. I know, we are not in survival mode
businesses, yes, you need to get to that level. But it is about that. How do you get into that
		

			level? Were you in that enlightened organization, where you now making an impact and difference? And
that's what my understanding is? Is the work that you do? Yeah, you see a critical thing? What
happens? You know, some people go to them, they say, Listen, man, my staff are too busy to go for a
workshop, they say all of these things. But you know what, you have not gone into the minds of these
individuals, people may be coming they reluctantly purely to survive. There is no deep seated
loyalty. And the point a question to be asked the fundamental thing, why should I come to your
business? Why should I buy your products? What is unique about you wait, you're doing the same thing
		

			as others, therefore, people now are moving from, you know, customer satisfaction to customer
experience? It's a fundamental difference to customer experience, when they walk in, is there a wow
factor? From the time the person the security to the individual in the reception? How are people
motivating you? And saying, I like to be there. You know what, I give you another example that we
look, we're going to go to this example. And I want to explore this much further, this customer
experience, this culture of how it's created, because I think we are in such an exciting, I believe
the future of of Business at the moment, is that that creative creativity, harnessing that, and that
		

			becomes your edge immediately after the break.
		

			Welcome back to inspirate business, the show that's here to inspire you, to empower you and to
enlighten you. And we talking to Uncle Idris, Cammisa a professional in the space of human capital
development. How important how important is human capital development in the world we live in, I
believe, strongly that this is the differentiator for the world and businesses and organizations
today. Yes, we have all the strategies and it's all available, very important to learn those
strategies. And you can get that through your degrees through courses. There's a lot of that around,
you want to be a marketing guru, you need to understand marketing strategies, you know, consumer
		

			surveys, etc, etc financial strategies business, you know, you work out your your, your spreadsheets
and so on. However,
		

			What's the point of all of that if you don't have that edge, you as a personal as a person needs to
be whole. When you as a person, our whole organization is whole. And you create that uniqueness that
innovation. And you spoke about a, you know, the various elements of human capital development. I
think there's one other element which also becomes very strong, which is, how do you navigate
through the complex world we live in? It is a fast paced world, who would have thought there's a
thing called COVID Right, that would have come in 2019 I always laugh about it, I say 20 19/31 of
December, if you ask somebody, listen, the whole world will come to an end, it will come to a stop
		

			Correct, right. You will say you crazy, you will go to a mental institute. It is what happened. What
will happen in two years time? We don't know. Right? We can work or we can we can deliberate about
who does what the point of the matter. It's just so dynamic. And you need to have the space
spirituality is so important. And he talking about this in business, unheard of 10 years ago,
spirituality was like a phenomenon for esoterics philosophers, religious people, today business
people are talking that you need that spirituality. So this wholesomeness this an earthing of this
innovative culture. How do you go about doing it in an organization practically? You see, I think
		

			it's important. If whoever is the head of the institution, people look at you. It is about you. Do
you inspire innovation?
		

			Are you a kind of person that chastises mistakes? For example, there's a company in America? Can you
believe this? They wanted to develop the idea of creativity in the company. And they say, if you
make a mistake in pursuing creativity, they give you $1,000. Can you believe it? What a change
whereby when they change the mindset, and what was happening, people were forced to think outside
the box? Who are the people that are getting the brownie points today? Not the oil shakes of the
world? And who thought the others who are thinking outside look at a guy like Elon Musk and come
from nowhere, we knew about him and today is the the leader, everyone looks at him. And it's about
		

			innovation, right? Yeah. And this is the whole thing is, it's about, you know, we have become
traditionalist, we are creatures of habit. And we are not prepared to stop and pause and say, You
know what? So the question to be asked, you know, no matter how good your product is, in facts,
statistics have shown Can you believe this, up to 70% of people will stop going to your company,
because of indifference of one employee in the company? Can you believe that? So relationship
dynamics, about about creativity, and about creating a culture, because remember this, every company
has this culture, whether it is overt covered or intentional, or otherwise, when you walk in there,
		

			you say, You know what, I never want to come in I, for example, I say to people, if tomorrow this
particular business tells you, we're going to give all our clothing free of charge. Would you go to
the city? Yes. I said what if, when you go there, the person is abusive to you, is swears you
because you fit for nothing, that kind of would you call this you will not go. But all of us have
dignities we have dignity. And it's something that's important, right for all of us. So I think it's
important for us, especially now, with things that in a low key, whatever, to look at how we can
radically change things. If you look at
		

			use of, as you said, No one anticipated the situation we are in today. So if there are four groups
of people in terms of what has happened,
		

			there is a small group that are doing far better than they ever did. A second group the status quo
is the same. The third group far worse than they ever did. And the fourth group have shut shop wiped
out, wiped out completely shut. Shut up. So my question to you is, what is the difference? What Why?
Why do they a few that make it in remember, everyone is faced with the same challenge? Okay, I may
be in the wrong sector. Could be that right? But let's say I'm in the same sectors as well, and I
get wiped out somebody doesn't what is okay there are a few factors, nothing happens. Let us
recognize a line this equation right. The other very important thing is this, that you cannot be
		

			gone are the days for you to have a shop in a corner and be passive. You can those days over those
days are over. You need to say Listen, what do I need to do differently? Why should anyone invest in
us and remember in the end, and I've seen it
		

			happen, if people love you and for who you are, that you are very, very critical, people will drive
miles to come and shop by you miles because they can have satisfaction. And you find every
individual requires the six things, any individual, especially now, because I tell people, when
someone walks in is a husband
		

			is a father
		

			is a son,
		

			he may be going through his own tensions, what he wants from you is a smile. So, what he wants, he
wants acceptance, he was information, he was acknowledgement, he wants affection, attention, and he
wants
		

			to be given positive attributes to be told to that person. You know, for example, let us say you are
a recurring customer, you and we have conversations, and I'll give you one example, I was doing a
program for a group of shops they selling high end men's clothing. And so I was going to one of the
branches, and there was a family there.
		

			And I asked this family, why do you shop here? The answer was so instructive. So revealing, they
never said with the shop here because of the product in what they said, We shop here because all of
them treat us as if we are the family. Just look at that
		

			in the family. So let us say you have come to me, and you told me, I asked you how you're doing, you
know, just chatting. And he said, No, I'm a bit anxious, my daughter is writing a paper, you know,
and the next time you come around, and I remember that, as you remember the last time we tell you
about your daughter, how's she doing? And you see, he remembered that. So I'm important. And all of
us want to feel the sense of importance, all of us one that all of us want validation human, the
human touch the human touch, especially what it's been it's been lost through the technological
advance. Absolutely. I mean, you hiding behind your little instrument, your technological
		

			instrument, whether it's your phone, or your computer, or whatever. Yeah, and yeah, you have in zoom
calls, whatever. But you lose in that that human interaction. For example, they know people make
this comparison beyond, I mean, between the Toyota model, and the Ford Model, the Ford Model
employees, we said, We want your hands, you don't really want your mind. But the Tirta model is even
you could be the janitor person walking on the floor. If you find something wrong, you can stop the
conveyor belt. Look at that, you understand. So now was everyone is part of the place is
significant. It's important. And you know what, when you validate your own employees, they want to
		

			go the extra proverbial mile, if you validate them, they're going to be loyal. If you validate them,
they will not be passive, they will apply their minds. And I'll give you another example I did a
program, I just want to just before they do bring in that point, I want to ask you something, you
know, the reality of it is we in a country where look, the truth is we have
		

			us because of historical issues and so on a general competencies are quite low here, right? You have
an high unemployment rate, you have generally the, you know, low level skills. There's So So So how
then in organizations like that, because then the view is that Listen, how do you how do you
develop? You know, skills like this, you know, how would you deal with it? Yeah, so they are so two
things, they must go concurrently? Right? Firstly, it's your relationship
		

			as a collective and to the individual. And also upskilling them, giving them belief, giving them
belief, right, that they can do it, and taking them step by step. And what happens is this, there is
what you call a transformation, you know, in Islam is about gradualism. And in fact, studies have
also shown right studies have also shown that if you employ someone exclusively for his skill, and
he knows that his skill is a shortage of that skill, they found that such a person is never a team
player. He thinks he is indispensable is above the law. And that often happens, that often happens,
you know, therefore, in the book, Good to Great by Jim Collins, and you know, built to last. And he
		

			says, For me a very, very instructive manual about business and he argues, and he says that, you
know, a business is like a bus. All of us are traveling in this bus. Sometimes you got to change the
seating of the bus again, sometimes you got to stop the bus and ask those people to leave that are
toxic to the company.
		

			You know, those are the tough
		

			decisions you may make also, you might have experienced another company, which is helpful, but you
must adapt to the vision of your new company adapt to the vision of the new company. And I would say
this year, if you have a program, a program of growth of self belief, and where you create an
atmosphere that is not tense, for example, people example and all this people unbelievable and
believe atmosphere is so easygoing, sometimes they said the longest phone call was made, I'd know
how many hours a to a particular client, because when you leave they say you know, word of mouth,
they say on average, every individual knows 200 people, and he would speak to 200 people about his
		

			experience. Now those 200 people, they have also known other 200 people, therefore, this book called
hugging your customers, yeah. Firstly, a personal touch that that relationship management Yes,
right. And, but you can do that when you yourself are personally developed, which is where you focus
in on because as the individual in the organization, when you have this wholesomeness, then you
create a organization that's wholesome. And then you can relate to your stakeholders, whoever they
are, in a wholesome way, we've come to the end of the segment, you know, we can go on and on and on,
because it's really powerful stuff. And I believe so important for businesses for organizations,
		

			whether they be NGOs, as well having the same challenges of how to differentiate yourself in this
new world. Listen, it's not easy out there. There are huge challenges. But as you said, there are so
many opportunities. But what do you need to do to harness those opportunities? And what do you need
to be to harness those opportunities? Let's explore this in our last segment, after the break.
		

			Welcome back to inspirate business where we wish to inspire you, to empower you and to enlighten
you. And that is our mission to provide some sort of skills, some sort of tools, through specialists
that we have on what we termed this red hot couch from our sponsor is collective. That's out in
Carmel. And today, we are being enlightened by none other than brother Idris, Cammisa, somebody
who's a mentor to me and mentor to many others, who's done such wonderful work with organizations
locally as well as globally. And we talking of what are the new age, the post COVID tools that can
differentiate you so that you can excel? Because I do believe that as much as there are a lot of
		

			naysayers a lot of doomsday theorists. And it's realistic. Yes, no doubt, we, as a country faced
many, many, many challenges. I mean, people from Kazan in your home province that have been through
so much, yes, there's a lot of pain, but we've been taught through the prophet Sallallahu loosehead,
probably one of the most difficult lives, yet always taught us to be positive and to have that Allah
consciousness and that, that has guided him. So I know you infuse a lot of these principles into
into organizations, but one may ask, because we talking about how to create the human capital in an
organization, but one may ask is that can it work? You know, this is the the elephant in the room, I
		

			like to call it. You know, some say that, you know what, you just have to be dictatorial. And you
just say what you need. And this is what, you know, it's like cogs in a in a wheel. Employees are
cogs in a wheel, or do you go the other route, which is the sole laissez faire approach? And, you
know, it's all created through its own organic way.
		

			Is it one or the other? Is it an infusion of the hybrid? Through your experiences? You know, you
said there are a few factors. There is a book I came across is called abolish appraisals. Okay.
Yeah, it says, because when you have appraisals in the company, it often suffers relationships,
often does that. And he said, You do that by making sure you choose the right person for the job
number one. Secondly, when you are compassionate kind, you unleash the intrinsic motivation. And I'm
not suggesting that you become overly indulgent
		

			There are some things that are non negotiable, like punctuality, and so on and so forth. These are
non negotiable things. And therefore, you know, the real question to be asked, in the end, how do
you measure any company? How do you measure success, you often look at the profitability are not the
kind of thing, but the real way is to measure it against your vision, your vision is so critical.
Your vision informs your behavior, your vision, you know, creates the kind of climate, for example,
we are part of the global association of Islamic schools. And one personal friend of mine workers
from the UK, said, We should not confine ourselves only to Islamic schools, but to Islamic
		

			education. And therefore, our tagline is, to transform Islamic education is the difference to
transform Islamic education. It gives his room for more participation, everything else. Now you find
the reality is, you know, therefore, in the company, all of us, because of our humanity, we want to
be treated as humans, and to be a human as possible. So you have an issue with someone, you try to
invade a commerce rehabilitate him, talk to him about it, right? In the end, I say to people, you
never make a decision to fire someone, that person made his own decision, especially now you got to
look after your job, you got to say to yourself, you know, perhaps I don't fit into this company, I
		

			need to move somewhere else. So what I'm saying is this, that we got to create the culture, and
environment. And I'll give you another quick example.
		

			Some years ago, the auditors of this company said, you know, what, we're going through a very lean
period. And he had huge staff, massive staff, he says, We could ask a few 100 people to leave, you
know, so because the owner was compassionate, no, I'm sorry. They're like my family, they must be
another way. There has to be another way. So they addressed the whole group, maybe a few 1000,
whatever. They said, You know what, we did not want you to lose your job. But we make a suggestion.
And if you have another suggestion, by all means, share that with us. What is a suggestion? Is it
Are you prepared? Each one of you to take one month unpaid leave?
		

			Look at that was the thing, what a thing. And someone said to me prepared take two months, they
said, ironically, the production that year was the highest, you know, why? Because the person felt
compassion for the other guy. He says, You know, I don't want to lose the job, I don't want him to
lose the job. Look at that. So in other words, the answers, you know, you got to you cannot have a
knee jerk reaction, you know, we cannot do these things, you know, like Simon center, you bring a
very powerful point there, which is that to actually this is where that, as working as a community
becomes so important. So I think the new term is also not necessarily competition, but coopetition
		

			is yes, we compete, but we compete in a positive way the benefit is of that sector. And you know,
and our customers, yeah, so that, so that's a fundamental thing. So I think, you know, what saddens
me to be honest with you.
		

			Many of our businesses, business people, do not read about the craft, do not seek help. Yes, not
seek help. And then thirdly, you know, because, you know, I say to people, is Something brought you
here today, it does not mean they will take you to the other destination, of course, you got to
rethink, be very, very creative, and creativity, all of us are born creative. And that's the
reality. In fact, a study that I shared, I'm proud to share it here again, is effective Stanford
University, they tested 1000 Kids, between the ages of first they were four and five, and 95%.
Tested creative geniuses, the same children between the ages of eight and 10, the percentage went
		

			down to the 32%. The same churn between 13 and 15. It went down to over 12%. So your environment is
broken. Yeah, that spirit of creativity.
		

			We born with creativity, and then whatever. Yeah, societal, parental environmental norms have
thwarted that delta effect. You saw and received this and I'm glad I'm talking to you. It reminds me
You know, I want to write a book. Nabi SallAllahu, alayhi wa sallam, the prophet of creativity, if
you look at the different things that he had done, so in the creative, unbelievable, you know, I
mean,
		

			Look at the medina model that was created here said you had to think totally outside the box here
compared to what the paradigm was at the time the norm. So it's about challenging yourself and
coming up with the new right. And that's I think, the challenge and the opportunity today for us. I
mean for the exam, just a few quick exam Nabi SallAllahu, wasallam.
		

			The people that were prisoners of war to get the release there to teach the children. Can you
imagine how powerful is that? The you know, the Battle of conquer it was the Battle of the drench,
right. So use use that talent of these enemies to actually enhance your own pavilion, and therefore
another aspect which is prophetic, the whole issue of emotional intelligence, it's about how you
deal with people, you know, we have become very, very impatient in the system. We are very
impatient, and no impatience. We are rude, dictatorial, and the worst thing ever, is for your own
employees to curse you, and they're coming, they're reluctantly to work. Secondly, they're trying to
		

			sabotage you, because the kind of person you are, I'm not justifying that. So what I'm suggesting is
this, the models are there. And we got to turn to Allah, we can look at the prophetic way. We need
to look at relationship dynamics, we need to diversify. We need to empower our people, you know, for
example, someone said, Okay, I'm spending time empowering him. But he will leave my company, say at
least, when he goes to the other company, he can say to them, I learned this ambassador for you. All
the time. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. And, you know, you see this so strongly, and I hope you as a viewer
have been picking this up, because I know this just listening to Uncle Idris, you know, you you
		

			combining this secular knowledge of yours that you are an avid reader of with this very strong
ethos, these Islamic ethos, these universal principles of godliness, and consciousness, you know,
		

			spirituality, and how important that is in the world that we live in today. So, you know, I just
think of it, you know, as you were speaking, and thinking, you know, if every organization may be a
government organization, with all the challenges that we faced with, may be a private organization,
small business, you know, could tap into this knowledge. And, and I mean, here's another
opportunity, which I was actually just thinking put in my entrepreneurial that we do to take all of
this and somehow automate it and systemize it so that you can go to many, you know, in sha Allah,
because that I believe, would be so valuable. And, you know, if people want to write I mean, we
		

			obviously have your details at the bottom of the screen. But you offer your skills through
organizations individually.
		

			How does that go i internationally as well, nationally, I meant to people, the last blessing. I've
been to 30 countries now and I and I cannot thank ally enough and my parents and people that around
me, and the people that give me an opportunity in this country to do programs for the companies, and
they could contact me, you know, I just want to end it off with one versus a few. A few minutes
left, and just leave this yah, yah, yah, yah, yah, yah, yah, you know, I met someone at the airport,
right? And, you know, in Islam, there is no coincidence. And he recognized me so he began to speak
to me, it to me there is from the work you are doing, you know, what, how do you see the future and
		

			whatnot. Then he gave me in a story of
		

			solid doctorate fashion world. He said, You know, I'll never forget this. I used to manufacture
stuff in these to buy from us. So one day Solly came there. And he gave me a huge financial gift. He
said, I'm giving this to you, because the products that you sell to me, we made we have
		

			profited so much from it, besides itself to give you this as extra, can you believe that, you know,
so this whole thing, you know, or is having Allah in the equation? And to understand it's not
because of your smartness? You know, it's not because of your smartness. And life today is so
fragile, you know, so frail, you know, and you know, Allah I've just a friend of mine is son of
1213.
		

			I'm not too sure what his real age was anyway, passed away, you know, and in a you know, your life
is shaken by these things. So I think it's important for us to remain positive.
		

			You know, you they say that you'd rather do a biopsy rather than autopsy you know, whilst you are
there you
		

			to reflect on what's going on, you know, have your powerful meetings, uplifting meetings, you know,
and developing your mind is making them into leaders, you will see a transformation and the burqa,
you will see, you will not be able to quantify, you know, yeah. So on. You know, we've come to the
end already of the show, we thank you on behalf of inspirate business show, you know, for blessing
us with your guidance, your esteemed guidance, I know you have helped me a lot in terms of my own
journey, as an individual, as an individual as an entrepreneur. And, you know, whatever you going
through whoever you are,
		

			whether you entering the business world, whether you intending to do so, in an organization, maybe
you've lost your business, there's always hope. And it is about reaching out. And the likes of
oncology's is there to reach out to just give you that nudge that his teacher gave him once upon a
time, and that's why he is where he is. He gave me that nudge, that's where I am where I am. So it's
like that we all feed off each other and so grow a stronger community, inshallah mean, As Salam
aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.