Channel: The Deen Show
Well we're having
a real between the two fights.
This kind of thing has been going on all along in terms of promotion of a fight and this time it seems to be for real because Joe Frazier is really angry.
I think that Ali is probably clown
and my wife's behind him and look at his stance that makes a lot of sense. So how can I protect my woman? If I'm walking and she she's half naked, some sad is run up and grab her. Hell I shouldn't put out there if I got merchandise I want to sell I put them and put them in one of you to see so if I want my wife, right I want to see my wife was proud it was mine a better looking at it was me What's wrong with it? How can you have a wife of somebody you love anything God may pressures he nature has it? You cannot find diamonds easily you have to dig and dig and dig me gotta work to clean up. You cannot
you cannot find listen. You cannot find go everything God made variably made hard to get pearls rubies and a mud all you have to dig and have time you don't strike everything God created that was valuable. He made it hard to get to a my woman more important than some diamonds is at all some goal when she the field was produced my sons and daughters why she walked around all nude in all of these design holes her breasts out she's on a beach wearing clothes that show more than her panties when she goes to bed. You do have a bodyguard. You have
one binary guy when he wishes to create a thing. He just ordered it when it comes into existence. But this order noncovalent words, which takes a tone to power, our sound characters. He hears the seasonals on the quiet thoughts. He stopped awesome. Who's
greetings of peace. How are you guys doing? Welcome to the dish. I got a special guest here with me, Jonathan Eich. He's the critically acclaimed best selling author. We're gonna get into a story. And then from the story, let's see, I made the picture might give it away. But uh, Jonathan, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Thank you for being with us onto the show. Thank you don't go to the shot with the picture yet. We're going to start off with a story from your book. Yeah. Okay. And then we're gonna get into more from there. It starts off all started off. It was an elderly man with his grandson. Right. That's right. And he was looking for a famous individual. He ends up at his
finally finding him. And what happens then tell us tell us about the story you take off with it. This elderly man he's from Tanzania. With his grandson travels to the United States. They go to Chicago first knocking on doors, looking for Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali. They can't find him in Chicago. They hear that he's moved to Los Angeles. They take a plane to Los Angeles. And they go riding around in the taxi looking for a house that looks like Ali's house. They have a picture of Ali's house from the newspaper. And they find the house they they go up knock on the door. And they're carrying a Big Mac in a bag because they want to make an offering a humble gesture of
Muhammad Ali, you know, you don't arrive empty handed. Yeah. So this, this elderly man and his grandson knock on the door and
all the answers and and the old man says we've come all the way from Africa. We are looking for Muhammad Ali. I wanted my son, my grandson to meet the great Muhammad Ali before he died. I want him to be able to say that he met Muhammad Ali. And Ali. Is this the mid 1990s. Now he's you know, he's been out of the spotlight for a while he's he's older. He's He's has trouble walking. He He speaks very softly he murmurs and you know, very softly, hard to understand. Was this around the 80s, late 90s, mid 90s, mid 90s before he likes the Olympic torch. So it's really in a period of where he's not getting a lot of attention. He's a little bit depressed, to be honest. Yeah. But he welcomes
this old man and his grandson into the house. He makes some sandwiches. He eats the Big Mac.
And he actually ate the Big Mac. Like one bite and his manager Larry Kolb was there with him and Larry is the one who told me this story.
And hours go by, and all these entertaining them with stories he's telling he's doing magic tricks for them. And then after a while, realizes it's been most of the afternoon they get in the car and all the offers to drive them back to the hotel that they're staying at by the by the airport. So they pile into Ali's
Rolls Royce, and they drive this older man and his grandson to the to the hotel. And they
they say goodbye. They give hugs and handshakes. And when they're leaving, they're driving back to Ali's house. Larry Kolb, the manager turns to Alia says why why do you just spend the whole day with those people, you could have just signed an autograph and they would have been perfectly happy. And Ali said something that was really remarkable. He said,
I believe that there's a tallying Angel, that there's an angel, who's counting all of your good deeds and all of your bad deeds. And I've done a lot of bad things in my life, I've been not always a good husband, not always a good father, I've made a lot of mistakes. And this is my time to make up for those mistakes and to do more good deeds so that I go to Paradise because he had a very vivid impression of what hell was like and what paradise was like. And he really felt that he had work to do in order to ensure his place in paradise. And that's why he he spent all that time with that with that older man and with his grandson and very touching story. He actually he had a vivid image in
your book you talk about he talks about the Hellfire like the sizzling. Yeah, he taught and then he was like putting your hand on a frying pan for eternity for millions of years. Yeah, and but just to take a timeout like that. And he puts him in his Rolls Royce and he takes them to he spends like he said the day with them. That's something just unheard of. You know, you think about celebrities and people you know, time is money. Yeah, right. I don't they don't have time for anyone. Just really many people. Not all but many people are egotistic, narcissistic. They don't want to, you know, connect with with the outside world. But he connected I mean, you show that he he couldn't say no to
anybody he loved that he fed off of it. You know, a lot of people would say to him, you know, he's big, famous guy comes to your office for a business meeting or something. They'd say, Mohammed, we have a car waiting for you in the back alley so that you can get out of here quickly. And he'd say, No, no, no, pull it around to the front. I want the people to see me. And he'd spend an hour even if he would like, be late for his next appointment. He'd spend an hour on the street just playing around with people he just he couldn't get enough. He loved people. What? Now let's talk about you now for a minute. What What motivated you to write this book, this biography, so many have been
written so many documentaries. And now the timing now what motivated you to, to put this together? You know, I was a kid in the 70s. I can remember rooting for Ali, against George Foreman and Joe Frazier. And, to me, he was the greatest hero because he was so different. He was outspoken, he had political stance. He wasn't just about the sport, he was about something bigger. And as a kid, I didn't fully appreciate that. But I just knew there was something magical about this guy. And the fact that he was black, the fact that he was a Muslim, you know, the word Muslim mean, one is the missing talent, the will of God, one who submits intolerance, the will of God. That's what Muslim
mean, was all again as a kid to me just kind of strange stuff that I didn't fully understand. But when when, when it occurred to me that nobody had yet written a full biography of Ollie there about as you said, there have been documentaries that have been a lot of books written about different aspects of his life. But nobody had done the full biography. And it's now 50 years since he took a stand against the Vietnam War, it's 50 years, 53 years since he changed his name, from cashes clay to Muhammad Ali and embraced Islam. I thought it was time and enough time had gone by that you could really put some of those events in historical perspective. And there were still enough people around
to talk to who were alive back then who knew him including his wives. Ali was alive at the time I began this work so it's just seemed like the right time to do a big Look at his life. Were you there at His janaza His funeral? You were Yeah, that was a in his hometown was in Louisville.
June of last year, I was there was your book already. It was still you're still writing it in the ending phases are I was getting close to done at that point. But I still had some work to do so. But I had already spoken to most of the key people in his life and saw them all down there at the at the janazah service. Now who are the key players in his life that were still who are still around today, but some of them that you actually got to spend some time with? Well, three of his four wives are still living and three of them with Yeah, there was the first one was the first one was billet.
Sanji was his first wife when she passed away. Yeah, in the 80s. But Belinda who later changed her name to kalila she was the one Let me refresh that Herbert Mohammed, introduce, introduce. Okay, so she was raised in the Nation of Islam. Yes. And her parents were some of the very first members of the Nation of Islam. So she was it was almost like an arranged marriage, the nature
But she wasn't she wasn't practicing or she didn't. That's not the first one. She didn't practice. Yes. Then Belinda. Linda came, she's still around. She's still so you got to spend some time with her at a time with her. Yeah. As well as his third wife Veronica and his current wife or his most recent wife. At the time of his death. He was still married to Lonnie. Yeah, so I spent time with all of them. And they're, they're all remarkable women. And they obviously knew him better than anybody. Yeah. And then you have, how about some of these other key players? Like Herbert Mohammed, I wasn't too fond of him. Now. Harvard passed away. Okay. His son. He's taken his car was 30 40%.
Yeah, a lot of money for Molly, but Holly's still loved him. You know how he didn't care about money. Yeah, that was amazing. I just let it go. You know, and he knew Herbert was taking 30 40% of everything and off the top before taxes before expenses. But he just didn't care all his life. He didn't really care about money. He just, you know, he said, if people want to take it from me, they must need it. Yeah, I really am. Some would say naive. Other people would say amazing attitude. What fight? Was that? Where you had Don King? I'm not too fun to have either. May God help us all? You know? Is he still around? Yeah. Did you get Did you get up on time with him? So I don't know. You
know, there's hope for everybody, you know.
But he went, there was a situation I don't know, it was a fight that Ali was supposed to get you talk about this in your book. He was supposed to get six, 7 million, correct me if I'm wrong. And then he only gave him so much. And there was like 1,000,002 left something like that. So he goes and Says the guy with the notary gives them 50,000 right now, they just take, you know, Ali signed a contract giving Don King a million dollars in exchange for $50,000. Yeah, a million. So he owes him.
He's taking the cash 50,000 and saying, I'll give you a check for a million. So he's basically trading 50,000 for a million. And yeah, he knew it was stupid, but he just couldn't say no. And Don King just, you know, Laughed all the way to the bank. So you got to collect a lot of data, a lot of information. How did that feel? I mean, going back, you know, to spend time, I would love to spend time, you know, you some people who knew him the best who's who, who were there with them through, they were there from the beginning, right? They even his brother who, you know, his brother's younger, his brother still around, and I spent a lot of time with Rockman. And, you know, raquan
could tell you, you know, what they had in the backyard, what kind of toys they had, where the goldfish pond was all this stuff, you know, he took me into their bedroom, where they where they were raised and told me, you know, where the beds were positioned. And, you know, all these great details that you can't really get if you wait another, you know, 1010 or 20 years to write this book. So it was a it was a real thrill for me to be able to walk in all these footsteps a little bit and to see how he lived and to know the people who knew him the best. Tell us a little about yourself. How long have you been What? How long have you had this passion for writing? When did you
start and, and talk to us a little bit. Sure. I've always liked writing, even from from, you know, grade school days. And I worked at my school newspaper, and then worked at my hometown newspaper, and then went to college and studied journalism and worked at newspapers in all over the country and ended up at the Wall Street Journal. That was my most recent job, and then started my
channel for six years. And left there just to begin writing books, and I've been writing books for the last 15 years. You did something also on Al Capone. Yeah, I wrote a book about Al Capone. Yeah. How long ago was that? That was a 2010, I guess. Yeah, it was really about the case against Capone, how the government went about trying to get them and in many cases had to you know, concoct evidence and
do all kinds of sneaky things to put them away. He How did he just to
ask you about that's interesting. He actually died, ah, Capone, have an ailment of an illness rifle is syphilis, right? Yeah. Yeah. He probably had in most of his adult life and could have been treated for it early on, but wasn't and as a result, by the time he went to prison, it began to affect his brain and he began to go mad from from the from the city was eating away. Yeah. And you you, you go over some
some new statistics regarding Ali Muhammad Ali's condition and you cite something like 200,000 plus hits that he took. That's my best estimate. Yeah, what I did was I worked with a company that that does boxing statistics and we actually counted every punch that hit Ollie over the course of his career, we we watched every round of every fight, and we charted the punches, not just how many but what kind of punch they were so not so you actually, not me. These these guys from copy box, every point every punch, every punch he threw and every punch that was thrown at him. Yeah. And we were able to see how much damage he was taking how much damage he was giving over the course of his
And you could see that as he gets older, which is to be expected, he begins slowing down and taking a lot more punches. And in the second half of his career, he's taking more punches than he's giving. So what I did was I took those numbers, and I extrapolated them over the course of his amateur career. You know, if we know that he took, for example, you know, 13 punches per round on average over the course of his career, if you extrapolate that for his amateur career for sparring sessions for exhibitions, my estimate is that he took about 200,000 punches over the course of his career. And it was it was said that early in the early 70s, is when his family was starting to get concerned
about some of the brain damage that was happening. Is that correct? That's right, they began to notice that he was slurring his speech, that he was mumbling. If you go back and you watch him on TV, now go on YouTube, and just watch his interviews over the years, you can see it that over the course of the 70s, his voice gets softer, harder to understand, and is the words come more slowly. And this was a guy who was a brilliant, brilliant linguist. I mean, he was a fabulous speaker. He was funny, and he was quick. But you can it said you can watch his his his speech was it deteriorating? And that's a sign of neurotic neurological damage. But he kept on for another,
another 10 years. I kept fighting and even you know, when he began to realize it, there all these interviews where he would ask reporters, do you think I'm getting punched drunk? Do you think I'm getting brain damaged? Because people say that I don't sound right. So he was aware of it. But the money was so good. He was being pushed by all these people around him to keep fighting because they liked having the money to they like the lifestyle it was it's hard to give up. Well, that shows I mean, when we talk about he, his his genuine, sincere love for people like this, Herbert.
And what role did Aram is still around today, right? Bob Arum still? Did you spend time with him? Yeah, I interviewed Bob a couple of times. Yeah. And some of the other key players. I mean, what I mean, it's just my opinion, when you really care for someone, right? When money's not a top priority, you want what's best for him, right? You follow me? But you're talking about the like that entourage, they like the money to pay everything, and they're getting a part of that. They really care for the man and you're gonna put him really first. And maybe this wouldn't have went to the extent that it did. What do you Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough to say because obviously,
responsibility lies with Ali. Yeah, primarily, but if some of the other people in his corner had said, I won't go, I won't be a part of this anymore. I quit. Maybe it would have gotten his attention. I mean, his mother and father were saying quit, but they were still coming to his fights and still cheering for him. And, you know, his family maybe could have done more to it's, it's everything but all these people are you know, they're they're riding that train, they're taking that money and nobody wants to see it end because they're never going to have easy money like that again. I was under I was getting the impression that because he continued to fight he wasn't
all there and he wasn't able to make those those those decisions. As someone who wasn't brain damaged the way he was. Right? It's a bit of a catch 22 right, is he is the brain damage making his his judgment impaired so that he can't decide whether to quit or not?
Or is it the other way around? You know, it's really sad. It may be that he wasn't really in good enough shape anymore to make those decisions for himself and, and a wife or a father or a mother should have come in and said
no, no more there was a his his trainer and was a de Angelo Angelo Dundee, Angelo Dundee, he's he's passed away. But there was one fight when he fought he threw in the towel, he stopped the fight that was against was at home. Guess Larry home, Larry, unfortunately, it was, you know, much too late. It was it was late in his career. He was already 40 years old, or 39. And it was also just late in that fight. He'd already taken a massive, massive hit. He never should have been in the ring that night at all.
We talked about him not being able to say no, right. But there was one man that you mentioned that he said no to. And
it was a louis farrakhan. He came to visit him. And he was trying to revive this nation. Right. Tell us about that. Yeah, farrakhan told me this story that really amazed me because you got to spend time with him also.
with everybody, yeah, they, I'm very persistent. I get people to talk to me. So, you know, Ali became a Muslim because of the Nation of Islam because of Elijah Muhammad. Yeah. And it wasn't just the religion it was it was race. It was a big part of it. He You know, he liked what it had to say about being black in America. So when Elijah Muhammad died, Elijah sons, took the Nation of Islam in a different direction, eventually broke it up and took their followers into orthodox Islam. And Ali went along and became a more traditional Muslim. Minister Farrakhan decided he wanted to try to rebuild the Nation of Islam and
Restore the teachings of Elijah Muhammad. So he went to Muhammad Ali and said, Brother Mohammed, you know, we did not become Muslims. Because of the Quran, we became Muslims because of the teachings of Elijah Muhammad, I want to restore the teachings, I want to rebuild the Nation of Islam. And you know, Will you come with me? And the story that farrakhan told me is that they were in Ali's kitchen. And there was a football game on TV and and Ali said, fair, can you see that TV? You see that football game? How many people are in that stadium?
And Ali said, everybody in that stadium knows me. But none of them know you. Get out. I'm not. I'm not coming with you. I'm not I'm not coming back to the Nation of Islam. And it was an interesting story, because it
I think it's just it was a very honest moment. How long because earlier in his career, he was afraid that they would kill him. Yeah, he left the nation. That's right. Yeah, he was afraid of Elijah Muhammad. Muhammad, you know, as long as he was alive, was ran that organization with with a lot of power. And, you know, obviously, people felt like Malcolm X and others have crossed, Elijah Muhammad paid for it. And I'll he mentioned a couple times that he was afraid if he ever left that he might be assassinated. Yeah. Now I've talked about I mean, you use you mentioned that towards more towards the end of your book, you talk about his transition with Wallace D. Muhammad. So that's a key point
that he, I'm trying to figure out, because this was around what he was probably in his late 30s. Now that he finally accepted,
real Islam, what we call it? Yeah. around what would have been the late 70s, late 70s. Do you think he was he was considering coming over to Islam from the nation at that point, when he was scared that they would they were going to kill him? No, I don't think so. I think it was it was a legit Mohammed sons, that that helped him guided him toward real Islam. Yeah. Yeah. So I've interviewed many, they have captains and former ministers from from from the nation. And we see a lot of this transition towards the end him and Malcolm also Malcolm ended up
leaving the nation. And because I make this differentiation, many people don't know that there's, you know, as orthodox Muslims, we don't, you know, consider this, this is kind of
not real Islam, you know, I mean, because the teachings of real Islam, when for instance, like what they originally believed in white man's the devil has nothing to do that's like, you know, worshipping a man, you know, real Islam caused by only worshipping the Creator. So anyone who many of these people who study the real Islam, they saw that hold on, this has nothing if you just open up the Quran. This has nothing to do with the real teachings. And they end up making that transition. But it's interesting that I'm trying to figure out at what point because he was scared, but Wallace D ended up bringing a lot of people over. And then what happens from there, Farah Khan
visits him to try to revive it. But then he said no, right. He was loyal to Wallace D. And one of the things that happened when Elijah died is
Herbert told Ali that my father wanted you to listen to Wallace and to do whatever Wallace says, We Herbert Herbert is as well as his brother. Oh, that's his brother. Yeah. Okay. The sons of Elijah, which one is older? I think Herbert was the older Herbert was the older caixa. And it was Herbert who said, my father wish wishes for you to follow his successor follow Wallace D and do whatever he told his told me, he says, and I'll he did that. And while this then began to transition toward orthodox Islam, and I'll leave follow them, yeah, but I don't think he would have done that. Prior to Elijah's death. You talk about him also with with, with his friends and colleagues, people who
who were Muslim that how he was, he was inviting them to pray, I pray every morning at five o'clock, my clock rings at 430 I'm up at five I take a shower, and
put my white robe on I put the towel on the floor, and I face the east towards Mecca. And we say surely I have turned myself to the O Allah, trying to be upright to him who has originated the heavens and the earth, and I am not of the polytheist surely my prayers, my sacrifices, my life and my death are all for our law, the Lord of all the worlds no associates and see this am I commanded, I am of those who submit or Allah, Thou art the king, Thou art my Lord and I am dying serving. I have been greatly unjust to myself, and I do confess my fault. So please grant me protection against all my fault, for not
grants protection against faults but thou and turn lead me to the Vestal models for non can turn away from me the worst of models but the and gotten me to the best of models for non kin guys to the best of models but the you don't you discuss that in your book you could you talk about that in his his real devotion and the solace that he found in prayer and other bath another shower, clean mouth pray and at five in the morning. This goes on. If when I'm right now I didn't do that for the first phase of fighting or the sack first night and fight. Really no sir. He had got big and I start thinking it was my training camp and my boxing ability that kept me where I was at and God punish
me. And he gave me a good weapon. He broke my jaw and a second fight. And he got me whooped and knocked down in the Fraser fight and I realized I wasn't that great after all. So I had to get not only together physically, but spiritually for this fight. I've prayed every day for five days, five times a day for the past
four months, and everything is perfect. And follows with me in a no way no man can win no way. And these things that really this is also towards At what point in his life was this? I think it was after he retired from boxing, he began to develop a real interest in studying the Quran and studying Islam and, and learning from from other teachers, he would go to the homes of a famous moms and would study with them and just sit at their table and listen, and he wasn't speaking as much because his voice was was was was vanishing. So he really would just sit silently for hours and listen, and he would transcribe from the crowd and transcribe from from from speeches from from others that
things that he'd read books about Islam, and that's how he taught himself by transcribing A lot of it because he was not a great reader. But if he transcribed something into a notebook or onto a note card, his brain was would would absorb it. So he liked to do that. He also liked to copy down the the contradictions in the Christian Bible and point out all the things in there, that couldn't be true because it said something opposite in one part of the Bible. So he loved
gathering a bunch of Christians around and always asked for mother's mother. I come as everything white. I said, Why is Jesus white with blond hair and blue eyes? Why is the Lord's Supper all white man, angels are white poo.
Married Marian, ever in the angels. I said, Mother, when we die and we go to heaven, she's a natural we go to heaven. I say what happened all the black angels they talk to.
So I choose to follow the Islamic path. Because I've never saw so much love. I never saw so many people hugging each other, kissing each other, praying five times a day, the women in the lone garmins the way they would eat, you can go to any country and say salaam aleikum wa Alaikum wa Salaam, you got a home, you got a brother, I chose the Islamic path because it connected me as a Christian in America. I couldn't go to the white churches, as a Christian. That was for those people. It did them good. It didn't do me good. And saying look at all the mistakes that are in your Bible now and then teach them about the Quran. He really liked the idea of playing that role of
teacher and he would often you know, there'd be these sports fans are just wanting to be around Ali and come back to my hotel room. And the next three hours, he'd be talking to them about the Bible versus the Quran and, you know, bore them to tears. But, but he enjoyed that I think it was important to him. But the word Muslim me one is the missing talent, the will of God, one who submits an ontology, the will of God, that's what Muslim mean. So I, I don't know, I cannot be the judge on how much I submit and tolerate the will of God. God Himself can only judge us. So I can't say how good I am. And no true Muslim, will brag or even will even take a chance on saying He's good. He's
halfway good or not. It's up to all our God to be the judge. See, he talked about him being also a peacemaker, going to other parts of the world and calling for this unity. You know this because obviously there's, you know, a great misunderstanding about Islam today. You can't doubt in many politicians, I've exploded that fact. But even at his time, it wasn't as obviously as bad I don't think. But he was talking to Americans here about Islam encourages them to look into it, then he would go abroad and visit different countries. And you know, talk about you mentioned this in your book. Yeah, he would travel a lot
throughout the Muslim world in particular, because he was the best known Muslim in America. And he would say that
the Muslims need to understand America and Americans need to understand Muslims better because this is before 911 but there were still these terrorist attacks, you know, in the
attack on the base in Lebanon, and there were all these
It was even before 911, there was an image in some Americans mind a prejudice that, that Muslims were terrorists. And that was, you know, a generic label that was applied. And all he really wanted to fight that. So he traveled around the world and places that not a lot of Americans went, you know, he went to Pakistan and Afghanistan, and gave these lectures about the importance of trying to build bridges between the two societies than the two religions. Yeah. How was how did how did that shift happen one at a time? How was he foreseen by the American public when he refused to go into the war, and how that all changed, I mean, went from being someone who I mean was he was like,
despise wasn't, he was absolutely the most, I believe, the most hated man in america that most hated the most hated man in America during the late 60s, when he refused to fight in Vietnam, and announced his allegiance with the Nation of Islam, which the FBI considered a terrorist cult. And he was stripped of his boxing license, he couldn't work, he couldn't travel outside the country. And that only began to change over time. And a couple things happen. One is the Vietnam War became terribly unpopular, and people realized that, that he had a point in opposing it. And they also began to believe that his he was at least legitimate in his religious beliefs, he wasn't faking it,
you know, whether you like the Nation of Islam or not, you had to admit the guy was was loyal and truly believed, or else he wouldn't have given up three and a half years of his career and millions of dollars to stand up for his religious beliefs. And then later by the 90s.
And he becomes a much more beloved figure, in part because he's been silenced by this disease by my Parkinson's, and he doesn't talk as much so he just becomes kind of like a teddy bear, we all want to hug him and, and love him. And then he goes around giving these speeches about religious tolerance, and he becomes a much more just,
you know, figure that we can all appreciate more. What what another thing that inspires me, and then there's, it shows that the earlier part of his life, and it's like, anyone who's it's hard to
fame opens up a whole nother world of temptation and corruption and all these things that you know, tantalize are calling you, right? And you get susceptible to that, and some people can't overcome it. And some people, they drown themselves, in all the things that come with it, right. And there's that part of his life. But then it just shows that, you know, a person who had, you know, no man's perfect, you know, you make mistakes. And in the earlier part of his life, you know, you can see where, and it goes with that story where he admits, you know, I've done some bad things, but then it shows, you know, the, that he really relied on the mercy of God. And he was really spending the
latter latter part of his life. Because it didn't, he didn't he didn't talk about that he truly started to become a man until he's like, late. What was it late 30s. Early, that he finally matured, right. And then he started to really change his life and start to be a humanitarian and, and give back. That's right. And he said that often that, you know, this disease, in many ways may have been a gift because it forced him to slow down. It forced people to look at him differently. And to say, you know, he was the greatest, the fastest, the strongest, the prettiest. And now look, he's he's trembling, he can't speak but he was never ashamed of it. He stood up there in public and let people
see him that way. First of all,
thank Almighty Allah, for your
very good for my town.
who you most grateful to for your career
And he said, I want people to see me this way, because they'll know that we're all human. And it'll help other people to deal with their problems. So he was in some ways, you know, he was the biggest egotist of all time. But in some ways, he was really humble and really believed that he was no, no, no different from anybody else. So if after speaking to all these countless, you know, Ray of different people, people who are, you know, there from the beginning, how did that leave you off? You know,
the feeling you know, that it's like you, you know him better now than then, you know,
and yeah, I know better than you know, I know some of my own family. Yeah. It's funny because there were times when I and this happens with your own family, too. Yeah, there were times where I was just
so mad at him. How could you behave that way? How could you be so stupid? How could you say such a thing, but he always won me over again. He always came back and did something to charm me and to make me feel like he was a good person in the end. And it's complicated. Anytime you devote four years of your life or more to diving into another person's life, there's going to be some stuff that that disturbs you. But overall, I felt like I you know, I, that I love the guy. So, so that took you for four years to a little more than four years. Wow. That's, that's it? Um, you know, that's a full time job, you know, dedicated for your people go to college for years, right? Yes, it is more in
these four years. Wow, I got a degree in Muhammad Ali's Right. Yeah.
So your, your, your book now is,
is titled, Ali. And this is going to be where can people get the book? It goes on sale, October 3, it'll be on Amazon and all the bookstores, independent neighborhood bookstores should all have it. I hope people will check it out. And it also has audiobook and an E book too. So it should be easy to find if you're going to have it on an audible. Yes, yeah. Are you the one that's got a real actor to do it somebody better than me? Yeah. Well, Jonathan, I appreciate you spending the time with us here on the dean show. And sharing some of these insights from his life. Hopefully, we get there was a lot to cover. Hopefully, God willing, we can have you back. Because there's a lot more to talk
about, you know, anytime. So it's a big book, but we are short amount of time. God bless you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you guys for tuning in.
Jonathan with his new book, Ali. And make sure you check it out. And we'll see you next time here in a de show. Until then, peace be with you, Sonic, what's the best thing I'm doing? Get ready to meet God.
Owning real estate going in business teaching boxes, that won't get me to heaven. God is watching me. God is God don't praise me because I be Joe Frazier got old credit about England, America, as far as we are wealth is all he is. He wants to know, how do we treat each other? How do we help each other. So I'm gonna dedicate my life to using my name and popularity, helping charities, helping people united people, brave people bombing each other because of religious belief. We need somebody in the world to help us make peace. So when I die, if there's a heaven, I want to see it. Because we live Hello, 80 years, the odds are everybody in this room, some of you will be dead. 20 years from
now, some of you will be dead 50 years from now. Some of them be dead 13 someone within six, seven years, we all want to die. So. So this is a test to see where will we spend our life in heaven. Hell, this is not the life now your real self is inside you. Your body gets old, some of you go to look at the look of your teeth, your hair is leaving you your bodies get tired, but your soul and your spirit never die. That's the live ever. So your body is just housing your soul and spirit. So God is testing us on how we treat each other how we live, to see where our real home be in heaven. So this physical stuff, the last a solo. So my car, this building is going to be here when the man
who builds a day. That'd be many kings and queens of England, they all did after this one is going to come. So we don't stay here. We're just trustees. We don't own nothing. Even your children are not yours. You think I'm like, your wife is not yours. You don't own your children, you know, and your family. So what am I saying? The most important thing about life is what's going to happen when you die? Are you going to go to heaven or hell invest eternity? How long is eternity? So what am I going to do enough to finally have 16 years of use a doctor, get myself ready to meet God and go to the best place? Does that make sense? Thank you