Ammar Alshukry – What is happening in Sudan on Ansari Podcast
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And yeah, and I think that's why what's happening in Sudan. So
interesting, because I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's
our Omar against each other. It's the UAE, that is leading the way
in what's happening in Sudan, again to correct me if I'm wrong,
I'm not too well versed in it. So it's difficult to see your own
body hurting you. Yeah, I mean, the the Sudan has two factions.
One is called the RSF, which is a paramilitary group. And the other
is the Sudanese army, the National Sudanese army. So 2019 people,
there was a protest, nationwide protests to remove the 30 year,
dictatorship of emitted Bashir and he was removed in 2019. And then
after that,
after there were a number of
there was civilian government that was in place for a period of time
around less than two years before the military then did a coup again
and took over power to protect the integrity of the blessitt protest
by Abdel Fattah habarana General. And then he omitted but she had
had a paramilitary group that he had been developing in West Sudan,
which is that for
since the Darfur crisis of 2003 2004. So this was a military
arm that he used to squash the rebellions violently, and not for
at that period of time. And it continued to grow under the
leadership of a man named Timothy. So this man eventually had around
20,000 Soldiers from Western Sudan, loyal to him. He's from
Western Sudan as well. And by the time that emitted Rashid was taken
out from power, I met he had a considerable force operating in
western Sudan. He was loved by the machine. And his influence only
continued to grow. He was brought into the capital and him in the
pillar military groups were given bases in the capital. That's how
absorbed into the Sudanese security apparatus or defense
apparatus they were and how welcome they were. And so when the
new general Bohan took over, he expected hibbity and wanted him at
these forces the sizable force to now be absorbed into his army. I'm
the general now I've taken over, I'm protecting the blessitt
protests. And
you're going to be my number two, and your soldiers are now going to
be absorbed into the army, and are meant to go to No, thank you. I've
got 1000s of fighters loyal to me. Why would I play number two to
you? It's my turn.
And his soldiers are in Khartoum. It's not like they're, they're in
western Sudan. And they have to figure out a way to fight their
way into Hearthstone to come into the capital. You know, normally
capitals are like the final stronghold. Right? You take the
capital at the end. But he was already started in the capital.
And so April 15 2023, in Ramadan, you know, those tensions lead to
war, finally breaking out. And when war broke out, how to turn
became a disaster. Was the other generals soldiers also in
Khartoum? Yeah. So they were both already there. They're already
there. So you see the videos of just heavy artillery, and heavy,
and artillery, rather, in Khartoum. And so it's
unbelievable. Like you you wouldn't imagine those types of
scenes in in a major capital city. But that's where I know this is
for my simplistic mind. But is there a good guy, bad guy
situation here? No, there's no good guy, bad guy. But generally,
like, more important than for me, for all of that type of stuff is
the humanitarian crisis, like beyond the political dynamics?
Because I feel like that's what we have control over. So the
humanitarian disaster that's happening in Sudan
is one where, first of all the people who are in fourth Khartoum
the majority became displaced.
They became internally displaced. So in general Khartoum had a very,
very, very large population, because of all of the
infrastructure and all of the services being in Hearthstone. So
you have a white, everybody in the country. I don't want to it's not
literally everybody, but it feels like it felt like everybody was in
Hearthstone like this is the major city of the country. Right, can
you search up the population
Moonstruck. So then you have them becoming internally displaced in
Sudan. You have at the beginning. You had some as soon as the war
broke out, they went and they made their way to Egypt, obviously by
foreign passports left as wherever they could go. And you had a lot
of people go to Egypt in Egypt had opened its borders for Sudanese
population.
And then you had a lot of people who immediately became internally
displaced if they had, you know, hometown somewhere if they had,
you know, they they, they had relatives and other places they
would go to them.
Then as the war continued, and Khartoum and as the war continued
into other areas, like it started in Khartoum, people anti Iran has
done but by and large, a lot of other states were still very
protected. I'm from for example, I'm from Louisiana, Jersey, it is
a state right south of Khartoum. It's an agricultural state. It's
between the two Niles. That's why it's called a desert of the island
because it's between the two notes. It's got one of the
largest, if not the largest irrigation project in the entire
world isn't just you know, a dizzy era is.
It's called Michel IDCT. They just eat a scheme. So my family,
they're all farmers, we grow sugarcane, we grow wheat, we grow
peanuts, we grow, grow everything caught and grow everything. And
in, it's in that land, very, very fertile land. And it's, you know,
Sudan is called the breadbasket of Africa. It's also called the
breadbasket of the Muslim ummah, whatever you want to call, it's
the breadbasket of a lot more than just Sudan. It has incredible
resources, over 100 million
heads of livestock like Hamdulillah. Like it's it's
incredibly, incredibly wealthy. And yet, you have this country
now, where you have millions of people, millions, around 80
million people are facing acute hunger,
which is a step below famine.
You have millions of people facing famine, and Sudan right now, it's
considered to be the world's largest humanitarian crisis
happening at the moment. So
even my own family's like, They're farmers. So I grew up with, you
know, sugarcane is very high. It's very high, you know, it's called
how I shot it's just complete. As far as the eye can see. It's land
that's used for the growing of sugar cane, sugar cane
plantations. And so just talking to my family in the past, like
week, they'll tell you like, It's eerie. You know, for the first
time, we can see the lights at night of our neighboring villages,
villages that will take you know, 10 minutes to drive to 15 minutes
to drive to 20 minutes to drive. So you see the lights of other
villages, they never were able to see that before. Why are they
seeing it? That's the scary part is because there's no crops before
it was blocked by the sugarcane before it was blocked by a trigger
and zero round. Like there's never, there's never a time where
I went and there was no how I shot. It's always there. So the
fact that nothing is growing, is very scary for Sudan in these
regions.
And that's beyond these.
The infrastructure has been stolen. So the tractors have been
stolen, all of the irrigation equipment has been stolen. They've
all been looted by these militias, and shipped to neighboring
countries. Not the Army's not stealing, but the militias are. So
this is the guy with a 20,000. So he doesn't have 20,000 anymore.
It's over 100,000 Yeah, he's gained traction. He's gained.
Yeah, there's a lot of gold in western Sudan. So he's had access
to gold. And he's been selling it has been selling it to the UAE
he's been selling it to Russia has been selling it to a lots of
different places. So is the UAE on his side? Yeah, they're supporting
the RSF. There are so what why is that? What's the UAE steak in
this? Have you heard semi Hamdi steak on Sudan? No, no. So what's
the end, by the way, the population Khartoum in 2020 466
and a half million, which is very big. So Egypt is probably absorbed
around 4 million. So I was just in Egypt last week.
I just needed last week and the amount of family members that I
have now in the past year who have moved to Egypt. I probably myself
and every Sudan has this story. So as far as so like, custom had all
of those people so before when you go to Sudan, you got to spend like
a week at household is visiting all the people that you know, all
of the families, all of that type of stuff you got to before you can
go anywhere else. You got to spend a week in Khartoum. Everybody's
got houses there. And so now all of those families, just me as an
example. Now I have people in Rwanda, I people in Uganda, I have
people in Kenya, I have maybe 4050 families in Cairo. I have
obviously so
De and then everybody who's got foreign passports, Europe or
whatever, they're everybody scattered you have families that
have lived there for generations. Now this person is in Australia,
this person's in the UK this person's and it's diaspora and
it's very painful. So initially those people who had left and went
to Egypt early those people, you know, they went legally. But then
Egypt close its borders, how are they going to absorb this amount
of people? You know, may Allah protect Egypt because it's got
everything's on fire around it just got was this got DBS got
Sudan so I'm gonna lesson how to how to protect them and protect
all of us our brothers sisters and lesbian Sudan and bring relief
to these countries. So
Egypt close its borders.
And so then everybody else who still needs to go, right? I have a
cousin who's has kidney failure, he's gonna die if he stays in
Sudan, there's no
the hospitals have stopped working.
So what do they do? They have to go illegally, but they just don't
they they jumped in cars, and they got people who will take them
across the border and all that type of stuff. And there's a lot
of people like that now in Cairo, you know, for the past four or
five months, six months, everybody who's went so it's, it's been
very, very
saddening, and grieving that you go and you're visiting families
who, you know, subhanAllah, you, all you can say is, you know, look
at how ALLAH SubhanA Dada changes people's circumstances. You know,
when a mama Chavez says, Let the DS do as they please. That's how
life is. You might have a family and I saw families who I'm like,
holla, like, you know, they just they don't know who you guys are,
like, in Khartoum, they were old money, you know, they were
wealthy, had inherited from their parents had inherited from their
grandparents living very, very comfortably. They never cared to
live ever, anywhere else. They didn't care about immigrating
anywhere that he needed to. And yet, you know, they're living in
mattresses and an apartment, and some random area of Cairo afraid
to go outside, and they haven't gone outside for weeks on end,
because they're afraid of getting rounded up by, you know, by the
police there and being shipped somewhere. So it's it's very,
very, very.
And that's the people who are in Egypt at the end of the day,
they're still okay. The people who are really, really, really in
dire need of the people who are still in Sudan. They're the ones
who are facing famine.
They're facing acute hunger, they're facing lack of
infrastructure and lack of safety. So it's a huge humanitarian crisis
that people aren't aware of. And it's being called the greatest the
actually the largest humanitarian crisis in the world right now.
Even bigger than the US. I mean, it's a larger population than it
was. Yeah, it's a larger population than Reza. And there's
a lot of similar things that are happening, like houses are being
occupied, like occupation that's happening. And so that hot assumes
the houses in Khartoum have been occupied. People are coming from
these places, Western Sudan, and even beyond it countries outside
right mercenaries that are coming in from different African states,
and they're coming in and they're occupying the houses, they're
taking them over there. You know, they're looting there. There's
acts of sexual violence. And that's why it's, it's not. It's
not simply it's not simply a war between two armies, a paramilitary
group, it's very much a war against the Sudanese people.
They're getting abused, they're getting looted. They're getting
beaten, they're getting tortured, they're getting killed. Civilians,
how can we're not seeing photos the way we are from Gaza?
I don't know. I mean, you're seeing like,
part of it is the lack of
the lack of Sudanese institutions. So when you say photos from Gaza,
where are you seeing these photos? Are you seeing them on the New
York Times?
By and large? No, you're not seeing them from Western media
outlets, but you're seeing them from,
you know, channels that are
either Palestinian made or you know, you have a lot of energy
that's coming from our brothers and sisters in different groups
and organizations that are promoting these channels for you
have created these channels. And I think the Sudanese community, by
and large, is very behind the game when it comes to creating
awareness on pages, creating pages, Sudanese diaspora, in
general, we're not that organize with regards to media. So I mean,
you need people who will for example, consistently, and the key
word is consistent with social media, you need it to be
consistent. You need to consistently for example,
translate what's happening in Sudan, you need the videos to be
translated. So when you look at for example, so you see all of
these channels that are going through the day to day process of
translating videos, creating content around it, it's not just
it's not it's not just sharing WhatsApp videos without
context, right? It's it's actually prepping that information for a
western audience. And we haven't done that yet. Both the Sudanese
community hasn't done it. And we haven't been able to mobilize
a broader community beyond the Sudanese community. And it's still
very, very difficult for the Sudanese community, like
a lot of our families are still in danger. You don't I mean, like,
it's not like, I can just sit here drink coffee and talk to you about
what's happening in Sudan as much as
without without fearing consequences, because your
family's still there.
You know, depending on, you know, you have to navigate certain
sensitivities. So you might actually need the help of people
beyond the Sudanese community who don't have that necessarily fear,
who can, who can talk about some of the political realities on the
ground, like that type of that type of sophistication, I think
needs to be there as well. But beyond that, I think it's just
really
getting together as a Sudanese community, we need to get together
and create these institutions and repel these institutions. We're
not very media savvy at all, the amount of journalists, for
example, who speak about Sudan regularly in English are very,
very few, you know, you can almost count them on one hand, compared
to us, there are a lot
because I think it is a historical phenomenon. So the institutions
have been building for so long that when spark happened, you
know, yeah, way, and you have these major major channels, right,
like I on Palestine, Middle East, I like you have a lot of these
channels that are that you're right, have been doing this for
years. And so they're, they're seasoned, and they're ready, and
they have a lot of support. And with Sudan, you know, sometimes
I'll go and I'll check like a Sudanese English page on Instagram
or something like that. And you'll find like, between one post and
the other, that was like, a week.
You know, like, that's not, that's not going to be the consistency
that you need, you need a lot more hands on deck, doing a lot more
organized work. And also, one other thing, if you're just
comparing it to us says that there's, it's like clear
aggressor, there's a clear oppressor rather, right, you have
the European colonial project that obviously is not indigenous to the
land coming and taking over indigenous, or the land of a
particular people. Whereas Sudan is a little bit more confusing,
right? And you even have the Sudanese community, you have
someone decide and house them on that side. Right. And so depending
on who you talk to, you'll get a different perspective. And that's
part of why as well, how do you think this civil war will will
end? Alon was best, you don't know. You know, some days, you
could end some, I mean, just one of them gets killed. I mean,
that's, you know, one could be a military defeat. The other could
be a truce. And the other is that it doesn't just wages on for
another 10 years, which is obviously the worst case scenario.
How many have died Dino? I don't know how many have died. But it's
like, like, some of the recent estimates are like 15,000 people
have killed but it's got to be way more than that. Yeah. I heard the
recent estimate for Kaiser has been 100,000. More. Yeah. So as of
2020, January 13,000 15,000, have been killed and 3000 injured.
That's in January, that's seven months ago. Yeah. But again, like,
the loss of life is beyond those who simply get killed, right?
million displaced, you have 10 million displaced. And when you
have as well, like just the collapse of health infrastructure,
how many people are dying, because they don't have access to insulin?
How many people are dying out of malnutrition, like they don't have
full access to food? How many people are dying, because there's
no place for them to treat their cancer? Like, you know, there's,
Allah knows best what the actual human cost of the words, what do
you think the Muslim community should do? How can we help? So one
of the good things
about Sudan that hamdulillah still, you know, when when this
war happened, one of the things that we were afraid of is that one
of the things that is first to collapse, and this is what, you
know, this the we were told by the, the the Syrian Medical
Association, I'm forgetting what the term is for their
organization. But you know, they had told us that one of the first
things to collapse is the banking industry, like you need to be
very, but hunted last Sudan's major bank app, which was called
Mongkok is still operating, miraculously, hamdulillah a year
and so they're not dealing with a lot of cash currency, but people
are still working with these these bank apps. So
you have two organizations, at least that I would recommend here
in the US one is called the Sudanese American physician
Association, and the other is called Sadat.
So I got is so the cut, right but the cough becomes. So it's a d A g
82. Ace to ace sad ag 80. Yeah, so two s two ace. So the hot there's
a USA version. There's a Canadian version. I don't know if there's a
UK version, but there's a USA version. There's a I'm not sure
law. So the law in general is one of the even before the words one
of the largest charitable charity organizations in Sudan. So they
operate throughout Sudan. And
one of the good things is that the law, you can send money to them
through these organizations. It will get there. They do great
work, and Hamdulillah. So, you know, I know that's one of the
concerns with us is, of course, one of the biggest concerns is
that we've seen is that you the humanitarian organizations aren't
able to actually get into, but with Sudan handed out you're able
to get that money in. Okay, if anyone who's listening is capable
of donating, please do. Yes, it's still got so the hot or you can
just go Google it. So the hot USA and there's the hot Canada, and
there's the Sudanese American physician Association Sapa. Okay,
yeah, they're, they're running a number of hospitals in Sudan, as
well.
And I feel like you wrote the poem of a refugee father's letter to
the, to his daughter, before the Sudanese thing, or was there
another conflict that happened that inspired that poem? Yeah. So
that poem actually was a commissioned poem. That poem I was
asked by a man a refugee services in Houston, Amana refugee services
is a beautiful organization that is that is completely dedicated to
absorbing, you know, refugees in Houston when they come. And, you
know, going to their office was always a beautiful experience, you
know, just trying to make sure that they have a dignified
experience. So I remember one of the things that stood out to me
when you go to their office, is that they used to have like,
a section that was like a department store of close. And
when they would go, people would go there, they were, they go in,
they get close, right, but it's the tiny like a department store.
It's not just like, and so they go get the clothes, and all the
clothes have a receipt. And when they come to the counter, they
scan the receipt, as if you're buying from a department store.
And one of the reasons why they did that, psychologically, they
don't want to make them feel like they're, you know, they're just
receiving, but they want to feel like they're actually like
purchasing as best as they could. So they had asked me there was
they were doing an event and they just asked me to write a poem
about fathers. And small, like, I haven't done a lot of commission
poems, but this is one of the few ones that I did. It's page 26.
It's called the refugees father, letter to his daughter, I wasn't
even a father when I wrote this poem. So
now I I empathize with that a lot more. You know, I'm a father of
two girls now. So there's not much that I wouldn't do for them. And
now that's that poems touched your home country, too. Yeah, you know,
subhanAllah, it's just the idea of, you know, when you're when,
when I was preparing the poem, they were telling me a lot of
stories about refugees. And one of the most painful experiences is
when you have
an organization that's, that's taking refugees, for example, to
the United States, but they're prioritizing taking single moms,
for example.
And so
that father, or that family has to make a decision whether or not he,
you know, they wait it out so that the father can go, or whether they
simply go without the father, right. And that this, this happens
a lot of times,
they just end up going and the father stays back. So I wrote it
like like that, like the have the idea of a father, sending his
family ahead to this unknown world where he can't protect them. So it
goes. Everything I know about fatherhood I learned from you. It
was an experiment from the time the doctor placed you in my arms.
I hadn't slept for two days up until that point, living off of
coffee, adrenaline and fear. But all of that disappeared when I
realized that you're here. For the first time in my life, I felt
responsibility that had me nervous and burden but it was the most
beautiful burden every day was an adventure. I missed your first
smile. So I promise in that moment to be the cause of a million
others your laughter was music to my ears. As a boy I always wanted
to be a superhero and I never felt more like one than when I wiped
away your tears rescuing you a daily from despair or what I mean
nightmares disappear because no monster even in your dreams could
approach you and I was near or when you scream that Bob was there
as you ran to the door and will make the worst of days turned into
a celebration, if only for a moment. You had a superpower to my
own little Jubilee. And every day was an adventure or mystery. New
Words A new
phrases, I was amazed that you put them together walking than
running. But oh is lighter than air Oh is lighter than air Oh is
the light of my existence in the laughter of my heart. And on the
first day of school, I promised you never part.
On the first day of school, I promised you we'd never part. But
sometimes ones run deep. And sometimes we make promises that
even superheroes can keep. Maybe you didn't realize it, when you
couldn't go to school anymore, and went to live with family all the
way by the shore that we were running away from more. But when
the months turned into years, I'm sure you came to know I hope you
remember what our house looked like.
Before we moved again, before the cat before the tents before the
cold would you had a room you called your own and you never
counted your clothes, I need you to know that you had a house you
called a home and a father who provide you the world if he could
make us so I'm sorry that I couldn't, that your toys went from
dolls and cups to clouds and rocks and such that you played so
little, and you walked so much. And I can't explain the feeling of
knowing that your children aren't limited by their dreams or live
their dreams are so big. They have them gazing at the sky, laughing
at the stars praying that they can fly. No. Their dreams are limited
by the opportunities that don't exist. So you cry when they are
born for all the dreams that they will miss. And you have no and you
have to make choices that seem dipped in poison to live
lifelessly, in a place where the sounds of bombs are more familiar
than those of ice cream trucks, or to volunteer for your heart to be
extracted and move to another country without you where you
can't shelter it from the cold. or protect it like it's gold, because
you can only take two. And so for now, it's your mom and you. But
don't you worry, I'm right there behind you. No matter where you
go. You know, your daddy's gonna find you know, earth and no sky.
No borders and no lights can ever divide. Or keep us apart for you
or my daughter. And you on my heart. I promise.
This poem hit differently now. Yeah, man, I almost got emotional,
bro. But I was like, No, we're on camera, man, I'm not going to go
out like that.
Not gonna go out like that on camera, but they're not going to
catch me crying.
Yeah, it was definitely a more emotional reading this time? How
do we reconcile with being able to be empathetic in this point of
view, because, you know, we even see how the refugees that and I'm
not too well versed about this issue. So I'm really speaking from
a place of ignorance, but the refugees that came in from
Afghanistan to Pakistan.
And they apparently, so I've heard haven't received the best, you
know, treatment. But I also heard, you know, there was something
happening on both sides there.
So but but this is all around like, I don't even have to give
this one example. There are many situations where refugees from
Muslim countries are going into other Muslim countries and they're
not welcomed. And Allah praises the old sod in the Koran for being
able to be so welcoming and loving towards those that are coming in.
And makes you realize how special the unsought are, right thrown
out. And fusuma Locata being was also they love, boredom and Hydra,
really, they love those who migrated to them. So there's a lot
of things one of it is
number one, recognizing that nobody's going to take your disk.
So that idea of, oh, these people are coming in, they're taking away
our jobs, and they're taking away this and they're taking away this
and we already don't have this and look at how
ALLAH SubhanA like, look at how these people are coming in.
They're, they're, they're, they're competing with us in the limited
resources that we have already. So that's that's, that's a that's a
that's an approach of scarcity.
And I don't believe it's one that almost should have this person is
not going to take away my risk Launchpad advisor in Midas for me,
and a lot of times you'll find that these immigrants that come or
whatever they because their back is against the wall. I mean,
they're coming in they're they're working hard and they're creating
opportunities and they're creating jobs. I mean, I know in Sudan, for
example, when the Syrians came after the war, I mean, these guys
were went straight to work right away. They're businessmen, they
mashallah I know, they were they immediately went to work and, you
know, they added value to the society, they opened up
restaurants and all of that immediately. So they're gonna come
with their own risk to Allah subhanaw taala provides for them
like he provides for you, but I mean, it's just an unfortunate
aspect that people would look at the approach of refugees and look
at it from that, that that lens of scarcity yeah