Ali Ataie – Quran And Bible And Ustad Ataie
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AI: Transcript ©
Hebrew
Let me say this in English for a
second too.
Whoever watching the program, we got a guest,
mister Atayi. Doctor Atayi is here today. If
you guys are priests, if you are, you
know the pastor
and if you are interested in religion, so
doctor is here. We have all the books
here, all the gospels with the different languages,
Greek,
Hebrew, English, Arabic, Farsi.
I didn't bring my Turkish but you know
whoever
got any question, any comment we are here.
Alhamdulillah, doctor is here we can respond all
the question. And our doctor is going to
talk about the Jesus in Quran,
Azadees salaam in Quran and Jesus in Bible.
It's gonna be back on the show. Thank
you for having me.
You made a point it's very important,
that we study language.
People who read the Quran
and they don't know anything about Arabic,
they're going to make
major errors when trying to interpret the Quran.
Like the Ayah that you mentioned in Surah
Tawba, ayah number 40, Waqadimatullahi
he had a rliya.
Anyone who studies Arabic knows that the meaning
of this, kadimatullah,
this is called Ibafa,
annexation, and it denotes something that is possessed.
So the Word of God, not God is
the Word.
Yeah. Right?
So, you know, it's it's important for you
to
study the language and and call our show
and and maybe get some clarification on this
before you make up your mind as to
what the Quran is saying and you haven't
studied the original language.
The word of God is a title of
Isa
in the Quran. He is karima toolah.
The word is not God. A word is
owned by God. Kalima is called Mudaf in
Arabic, a construct noun, and then Allah is
mubaf ilayhi,
the
absolute noun or the owner of the construct
noun. Just like when we say kitabullah,
the book of God. We're not saying Al
Kitabahu Allah, we're not saying the book is
God.
No one translates like that, that's an incorrect
translation.
What's also interesting is, if you read the
entire Quran, it's very clear
the stance of,
the Quran with respect to
orthodox or Trinitarian
theology.
This is in Surah Al Ma'ida, ayah number
17,
very clear Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says, it
is a statement of those
who
reject faith.
It is a statement of blasphemy.
Those who say that Allah
is the Christ, is Al Masir,
is Hamashiach in Hebrew, is Isa alayhi salam.
So this is an unacceptable
theology.
Right? So this verse is very clear, Al
Maeda verse number 17.
Right? So look at these clear verses.
Interestingly Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says in the
beginning of Surat Ali Imran,
he says that there are 2 types of
ayat in the Quran.
There's Muhamkamat
and Mutashabihat.
Muhamkamat
ayat
are verses that are very clear and you
read a translation you can even understand.
But then you have mutashabihatayat
that are not very clear, right, and require
some sort of explanation.
And then the ayah says, in the beginning
of Adi Imran, those who have a disease
in their hearts, they look at these mutashabi
hats, and they twist and they turn them
so that they say what they want them
to say.
Right? While ignoring the muhkhamat.
So it's very clear that Isa alaihi salam
is not Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala in the
Quran. Right? That's very clear. So don't dig
into these other verses and try to pull
out the hidden meanings
of the Quran and say, oh, the kadima
is God. That's wrong. Not only on the
basis of the rest of the Quran, but
also grammatically, that's an incorrect
translation.
What's also interesting is, and this is something
that you've been saying for years, we've been
saying for many years in the past,
that there's no verse in any New Testament
gospel,
Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. Right? There is
no verse,
in any gospel
where Esai, alaihi salam, or Jesus, peace be
upon him,
says I am God or worship me.
Right? I am God or worship me. And
Jesus is never called
God,
in the New Testament.
Not even in John 1:1, in the beginning
was the word, the word was with God,
the word was God. That's not a good
translation. If you look at the Greek,
right, he's not called the God,
Theos.
He's simply called Theos, and there's a difference
between the two. A definite article, in Arabic
we say Aliv Lam, makes a big difference
in meaning and in translation.
He's never called the God anywhere in the
New Testament.
The problem is people rely on translation.
So what does the Quran say about Isa
alaihi salam? Maybe it's a good way to
start our conversation.
Today. If we look at the Quran, Surah
Alimran, this is chapter 3, surah number 3
verse number 42,
waifqalatin
malaikatuyam
mariamu
Behold the angel said, O Maryam,
God has chosen you and purified you, chosen
you above the women of all nations. And
this is something that a lot of people
don't know about,
the Quran
is that Maryam alaihis salam is someone who's
chosen above the women of all nations.
That the only woman who's named in the
Quran
is Maryam alaihis salam.
That there's a chapter of the Quran
named after her. Chapter 19 of the Quran,
Surat Maryam.
The only chapter in the Quran named after
a woman
is chapter 19. There's no book in the
New Testament named after Mary.
Mary plays a very important role
in the history,
of of of Islam, in the history of
religion,
as how Muslims understand it. The Quran continues
verse 45,
'O Mary.' The angels are saying, 'O Mary,
God gives you bushra,
glad tidings of a kalima
from Him. A kalima from Him.
Right? Meaning this kalima
has an origin in Allah. Allah
created this kalima. This is the word of
God.
Kalima to Allah is different than kalamullah.
The Quran is called Kalamullah
but Isa alaihis salam
and no place in the Quran is called
Kalamullah
because Kalam
as we understand it is a pre eternal
attribute of Allah that is manifested
by the Quran.
Whereas Isa alaihis salam
is kalimatullah,
meaning that he is a created word of
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
And many of the ulama, they discuss
this ayah and say that Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala, he said, Be and there he was.
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala created Isa Alaihi Salam,
out of nothing, and that this is easy
for Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala.
Ismuhul Masir, so the name of this kalima
is named Al Masir, his title, the Christ.
'Isaab Nur Maryam wajeehan fitdunya wal akhira waminalmuqarabeen
That this
Masih Isa ibn Maryam,
Jesus the son of Mary
is held in honor in this dunya, this
world and in the afterlife.
And is
from the ones that are nearest to Allah
Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala,
Mukar Rabin. So this is
very,
very
complimentary
language Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala is giving high
praise
to Isa Alaihi Salam in the Quran. Again,
this is something a lot of people don't
know,
especially,
you know,
non Muslim,
non Muslims living in the West.
They think they know a few things about
Islam because they watch the news and whatnot,
and most of what they hear is negative.
But they don't know anything about our theology.
They don't know that we believe in the
same God,
the God of Abraham. There's only one God.
And they certainly don't know that we believe
in Isa
There is a difference however, Muslims believe in
Isa as a nabi, a prophet,
a Rasul,
right? He is a messenger of God. He
is Al Masih.
He is the anointed of God, the messiah.
And interestingly
the Jews don't believe in any of these
things when it comes to Isa alaihis salaam.
The Jews,
they you might get some that will say
that he was a great rabbi
but that's about
it. Right? I mean, do we have a
phone maybe we should
you wanna take it right now? Yes, take.
Yeah.
So we're recording the ayat from Surat Alai
Imran.
In this sequence of ayat,
we were at verse number 45.
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala he tells us that
Isa Alaihi Salam is from the Mukharabeen.
The Mukharabeen
are those who are nearest to Allah Subhanahu
Wa Ta'ala.
So this is very important. This is something
we have to tell our Christian friends
about when they ask us about our theology.
We should know something about our theology.
It's,
incumbent upon us. It's Fardha'in that we have
to know something
about our theology. We have to know the
names of prophets. If somebody asks us who
is Allah, we have to give an accurate
answer to them. People ask us, do you
believe in Aissa, alayhis salam?
Of course we do, and we should quote
some of the Quran to them. Let them
hear the Quran.
Right? Hearing the Quran itself is very powerful.
How many times we read in the biography
of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam
that a mushrik of some sort, an idolater
of some sort, who was fighting against the
prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam, they would just recite
Quran to him.
And oftentimes that was it. He would just
hear the message, the beauty of it, the
meanings of it, and they would become Muslim.
So don't underestimate,
the power of the kalam of Allah Subhanahu
Wa Ta'ala. The Quran, when they hear the
Quran it has a real effect
on people.
And then Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says about
Isa alaihis salam, this is ayah number 46
now, of surah number 3. Wa yukalimun nasil
mahiwakahlan.
That Isa alayhi salam will speak to the
people in childhood
and in maturity as an adult.
Wominas saliheen,
and he will be from the most righteous
human beings to ever
walk on the planet earth. That Allah Subhanahu
Wa Ta'ala, he gave hikma, he gave wisdom
to Isa Alaihi Salam when he was a
very small child
even.
So this is someone who has
a great blessing from Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
that he was given this gift of wisdom.
And also as an adult, he will speak
to the people
as well. And then Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
tells us, qalatrabi
anayakoonuli
waladun
walam yamsasni bashar. So now quoting Maryam alaihi
sallam, now the angel has given her this
bushra, this good news,
you know, the annunciation
that she's going to have a son, and
she says, oh my lord, how can I
have a son When I'm not married, no
man has touched me? So this is something
we believe in as well, according to the
Quran. In fact, unfortunately a lot of Muslims
don't even know that we confirm
the miraculous birth of Isa Alai Sanat. It's
mentioned in the Quran in a few places
in the Quran. So certainly we can confirm
this.
This is something that's mentioned in the New
Testament as well. So the Quran is confirming
this aspect,
this great miracle
of Isa alaihi salam. Qalaqadadikillahu
yaghluku mayyasha
Very beautiful
statement from Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
on the tongue of this angel speaking to
Maryam alaihis salam. He says to her, even
so Allah creates
whatever He wills.
That everything other than Allah is Mahlukaat,
is creation. Everything.
The Kaaba is created,
Jibil
the Arash, the Kursi,
all of these things, the heavens and the
earth, Isa everything is created.
Only Allah
His attributes and His actions are uncreated.
Everything else, al-'alamin.
This is one of the meanings of al-'alamin
is kullu masiwa Allah. Everything except Allah.
So Isa alaihi wasalam is from the Mahlukaat.
He is a very highly exalted creation of
Allah. The prophets are the best.
According to our theology,
the greatest human beings
are the prophets,
then the, you know, then people say, you
know, the Imams, the Auliya, these are the
greatest human beings. And these are men and
women. Right?
And as you said earlier as well, the
Quran says,
that we don't make distinctions between prophets.
So I cannot make a distinction.
In other words, I'm not going to give
a prophet
a title that Allah did not give him.
That's not my job.
Allah has his prophets at different levels. Because
another eye of the Quran, al Baqarah 253,
minhumman
kalamallahuwarafaana
ba'adumdarajat.
That Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says that those
messengers,
we gave some
degrees over others.
That Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala has his prophets
at different degrees. The highest station
is the Maqam of Mahmud. This is the
station of the Shafi'wal Mushafah,
of the intercessor on the yawmul qiyama
and this is the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa
sallam, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
He has the highest rank of the prophets.
The ulama also talk about the ululazmi
mina rusul,
the 5 great exalted ones.
Those of inflexible purpose, of firm resolve,
And they say that these are
in in chronological
order,
Nuh alayhi salaam
and Ibrahim alayhi salaam
and Musa
and Aesah
and the prophet Muhammad
These are the great prophets of God. So
Allah
is telling us here
that
Isa alaihis salam is created but he's from
the greatest of the Mahlukaat.
But to say that he's uncreated,
this is the Christian claim.
They say that the son of God, meaning
not the physical body of Jesus that's obviously
created, they admit that. But they're talking about
his his,
his person as the Son of God.
Right? That he's pre eternal and he's uncreated.
So this is problematic,
right? That only Allah
has pre eternality.
Allah
is uncreated. Everything else is created.
And then Allah says, idaqaddhaamran
fa inna maya kullahu kun fa yukun. That
whenever God decrees anything,
he just says be and there it
is. Right? That creation is very easy for
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
That Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
does not need to,
you know, he does not need
to come down into his creation.
Muslims don't believe in an incarnation.
Right? That nothing
in creation is Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala because
The Quran tells us there's nothing like Allah
whatsoever.
There's nothing like Allah.
So,
you know, there's some people who worship
different monuments.
They worship their own egos. They worship money.
Right?
None of these things are God. These are
false deities, false God. Because the real God
is unseen.
The real God is not in creation.
The real God created creation.
The real God is not in time or
in place
because he created
time and place.
So this idea of a divine incarnation
that Christians believe, at least the trinitarians
which are the obviously majority,
believe that God came down to earth
incarnated, became flesh
in the form of a man, and then
essentially killed himself
for the sins of humanity.
From a Islamic standpoint, this is very problematic
but even from a biblical standpoint,
this is also very problematic.
Because if you read in the Old Testament
or the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible, Christians call
it Old Testament.
If you read there it's very clear,
If you see, for example, Numbers 23/19,
this is in the Torah,
Genesis, Exodus,
Leviticus,
Numbers. The 4th book
of of the Torah,
in the Bible is called Numbers
23/19.
It says very clearly,
Lo'ish El.
And you should learn this, it's very easy.
Lo'ish El, this is the Hebrew.
Right? You should memorize this.
Lo'ish
El means God is not a man.
Right? God is not a man. It's very
very clear.
Right? So when you're engaging in conversation, and
this is what the Quran says, and this
is the caller, may Allah reward him. He
reminded us of
the importance of interfaith dialogue.
Qoryaahalkitab
ta'alawilalkani
matin sawayin
beinanawabeinakum.
Say, O people of the Kitab, right? Could
be Bible, people of the book, Jews and
Christians.
Let's come together
and come to common terms.
Let's come upon a common word, kadimetsin Sawayin.
Right?
So it's important for us to engage in
interfaith dialogue but we do it with good,
what? We do it with good adab. Right?
It's important
but we get our point across. The point
isn't to agree on everything, we're gonna have
disagreement.
The point is to be understood by people.
Right? And you can agree to disagree.
Right? So when you're engaging with your Christian
friends, your family members,
your
your schoolmates, whoever they might be,
and they try to convince you that Isa
alaihi salam is Allah
you could quote this verse in Hebrew
23/19
of the book of Numbers,
lo ishail.
Everyone say it together. 123.
Lo ish El.
God is not man. God is not a
man. It's very clear.
Right? And there's other places also, the book
of Hosea.
This is in the old testament also. Hosea
11:9
is very clear,
God is now speaking in the first person.
Right? God is not a man,
this is in the 3rd person.
But now, God is speaking in the first
person. Right? And when God speaks in the
first person, which he does sometimes in the
Quran,
then it's really important.
Right?
So he says, indeed I am God.
That's the equivalent probably, the translation.
And not a human being.
Indeed I am God
and not a man.
Meaning that God and man are mutually exclusive.
Right? They're 2 different entities.
So this is very important.
This idea again that we mentioned
of
God
coming down to earth and then committing
an act of self immolation,
essentially killing himself
for the sins of humanity. Also very problematic
from a Muslim standpoint because God can never
die.
Right?
Al hay. Al hay means the one who
has intrinsic
life and is always alive.
He can never die.
It is impossible for Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
to die. It is against the nature of
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala to die.
Right? So this is something we have to
remember.
In the Old Testament also, it's very clear,
that God is
an eternal
God. If you read for example the book
of 1st and second Kings, 1st and second
Chronicles, especially 1st and second Kings,
And,
the rest of the books in in that
sequence, 1st and second Samuel,
you have dialogue
between the prophet Elijah
and Elisha
and quite often they will say to each
other, Khay Adonai
Khay Adonai
What does that mean? It means by the
living God. This is called the Qasam
in Arabic. A Qasam is an oath.
For example, you say wallahi,
this is called Qasam.
Right? So the Hebrew prophets, they take a
Qasam when they speak to each other, Khay
Adonai, by the living God.
The God who never dies,
right? So this problem, there's nothing wrong with
a prophet dying,
Right? We are told in
the Quran
that Bani Israel killed many of the prophets.
Right?
We know for example Yahya alaihi wasalam
was killed, right? There's nothing wrong with a
prophet dying.
A prophet can be killed.
A
saint can be killed. An imam can be
killed. A righteous rajalun salih, a righteous man,
they can be killed. Many were killed. No
problem.
But saying God can be
killed. This is a major problem
and I don't think that this belief is
consistent
with the Hebrew Bible. I have a Hebrew
Bible right
here. I have a Greek New Testament. I
encourage people that are watching,
who are Muslim or have questions
or Christians,
to call our show and let's talk about
these very important issues.
We're not going to insult your religion. We're
not going to insult you personally.
Right? But we want to engage in a
good conversation because this is what the Quran
tells us to do.
The Quran tells us
to have a conversation
and the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam when he
was living in Medina, he invited the Christians
into the mosque. Which is interesting because
Catholics were not allowed to go into Masajid
until the 19 sixties.
There was a council called Vatican 2 from
1962 to 1965.
It was only then
that the Catholic church allowed
Catholics
to go into Masajid,
into Mosques and engage in dialogue.
Whereas if you look at our historical record,
the Sira literature,
many hadith
about the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, we see
that he opened the doors of the Masjid
and allowed
Jews and Christians to come and they would
have discussions.
There's nothing wrong with that. This is how
we create peace in the world.
It's not by shutting our doors or building
walls like one of the presidential candidates wants
to do. This is not how we create
peace.
We get together and we talk about these
issues but we do it with adab. As
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says,
In surah An Nahl verse,
this surah number 16
verse 125.
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says,
call all to the way of your Lord,
Bil Hikmati
with wisdom, wamawidhatilhasana,
and beneficial or beautiful preaching.
Right? Don't insult people. No. Let's talk. We
can be critical.
We have to be critical
because we believe that
somebody is wrong. We believe that Christianity, Christian
theology got it wrong. That Isa alaihi wa
sallam is not Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.
Right? We wanted to talk about that and
then he says,
and debate with them
is debate.
Debate with them in ways that are good.
Meaning don't insult, don't name call, right? Ad
hominem attacks, often times we engage in conference,
you know, we we talk to Christians and
then they get frustrated,
and then they
start using
bad language, 4 letter words. Right? Sometimes they
call our show after and they cuss us
out. For what?
We wanna have a good civil conversation.
Right?
So argue with them, debate with them in
ways that are best because resulting to ad
hominem attacks
is
you're admitting that you've lost the debate,
and it's a fallacious argument. So don't call
our show and start
insulting the Quran or the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi
Wasallam or anything like that because we have
no patience for that, we're not going to
entertain that type of thing. But if you
have real questions,
if you want to be an adult about
the matter,
if you want to be academic,
call our show please and let's talk about
these issues. Very important.