Adnan Rashid – Qadiani Runs From Muslims Question

AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of researching and studying the Bible's teachings to determine their truthfulness. They stress the significance of word use in the Bible and the need for people to be heard. They also mention the importance of researching and studying the Bible's teachings to determine their truthfulness.
AI: Summary ©
Just recently where the khalifa Went to germany
where I was visiting and I couldn't come
to your stream 47,000 ahmadis by the
grace of allah were there and just on
the jalsa three days 40 uh 39 ahmadis
who just came Muslims and non-muslims who
just came to observe accepted islam So your
claim of uh, you know some remote part
of africa people are accepting this and that
And that's the only point that's absolutely false
people are opening their eyes There are those
christian missionaries who have felt themselves and they
are They are recorded interviews saying that by
looking at this man's face You can tell
he's from allah and we've been we've we've
felt something here.
They pray behind him So let's not talk
about these things and the you know These
are just side points and another point that
you brother mansoor made and I want to
answer that with regards to brahini ahmadiyya We
have dealt with this very very extensively in
our stream We don't want you not to
come on our stream, please You want agnan
to come we're having a stream, you know
next week Inshallah, just as we come to
your streams, we will be respectful.
He knows we were respectful respectful Without any
time we gave him as much time as
possible and anon would agree to this for
him to speak So I think it's not
correct way over whether muhammad said that when
you know, we're not being respectful and we're
not giving people time Okay, so the point
about uh with with regards to that you
made about uh, you know 50 and 5
Every time we mention rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam
or ahadith First of all, I must mention
this it is not to attack our beloved
prophet rasulullah Sallallahu alayhi wasallam or anbiya who
were mentioned in the quran But it's to
show you a mirror and to say that
the usul that you guys have concocted At
home, he said sitting on his bed.
He's writing these down It's something that does
not exist in the quran or anywhere.
For instance We we have an example when
rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam went to miraj, right?
And he came back Okay that the five
the 50 prayers were replaced with five Okay,
if someone raises a raises an allegation now
Oh, you know first allah the almighty granted
him 50 and now is replaced with five.
It'll just it'll just be you know It
will not be a nice Argument at all.
So when the promised messiah sallallahu alayhi wasallam,
you know, right says with regards to writing
50 parts of rahim He himself explains this
later on that and and and brother, uh
Adnan rashid himself said that he wrote 80
plus books Which he said he hasn't read
page to page, you know, he has he
has accepted this.
So so the point I wouldn't like to
read them.
I wouldn't like to read them Okay, that's
that that's fine that's your choice but but
but Let me compete you made a very
nice picture with brahini hamdi holding in your
hand, you know No, it was it was
it was it was it was ruhani khazaan
not brahini ahmadiyya No, you had one because
i'm in in your hand you're holding Yeah,
yeah, not not brahini hamidiyya.
I have I have the first edition of
brahini hamidiyya in my my personal library If
you don't want to read it, why do
you have it?
Because it's a piece it's it's it's a
piece of history.
I'm a historian.
Is that why you have it?
Yeah, 100 percent.
I I I have people I have I
have items from uh, Many ancient civilizations, so
that's a separate question.
So I want to quickly very quickly talk
to you about this.
Okay Uh when we when we you know,
when we are doing these streams we're not
doing these streams to Uh insult you and
insult your religion and your understanding We're simply
trying to explain to the ahmadi innocent gullible
ahmadi masses that They don't know mirza.
They haven't read.
I mean I can guarantee you most ahmadis
like most sunnis to be fair They haven't
read the literature.
Okay, and uh when when we do present
these things We we are we are being
very careful.
We don't take his writings out of context
Okay, we when we present, uh, his character,
let's say his abuse his swear words Or
when we present his false prophecies We're not
spinning those facts.
We're not we're not trying to manipulate things
In a way that they're they're actually not
okay Can I prove that you do can
I prove that?
Can you can you just let him speak
ahmad and then you can have your statements?
Yeah, yeah, for example, for example when we
say muhammadi begum prophecy wasn't fulfilled we spoke
about it extensively showing That mirza made it
made it a sign of his truth Okay,
it never happened Up to the end of
his life.
He was hoping that this will happen.
It never happened Okay, you cannot dispute that
number two.
He made other prophecies like about the death
of abdullah atum Okay, it didn't happen at
the right time for example Okay, then he
he he made a prophecy about you know,
abdul hakeem Dr. Abdul hakeem, even though dr.
Abdul hakeem changed his time, but mirza himself
in july 1907 he said that allah will
prolong his life I have the references by
the way.
Yeah, so so when we people like me
Okay, who has no interest in reading mirza's
books?
Apart from the fact that we want to
reach out to the ahmadi community and do
dawah I would only read them for the
sake of dawah Okay, so that we can
speak to the ahmadi community when we see
all these things mirza's unfulfilled prophecy repeatedly one
after another one after another repeatedly You really
want our people to believe in mirza?
Only uneducated people only uneducated people who do
not know mirza and his reality will fall
for this Uh for this, uh, okay, you
know facade Yeah So the point that you
made that you don't change words or you
don't hide stuff and stuff Why is it
that in the entirety of that stream?
That you didn't when razi mentioned countlessly to
to mention the reference of anjami hatim from
1896 Where the promise was and two references
that you did not mention knowingly, but the
promise musa alaihissalam says Okay
Okay, one second just listen to it again,
he says it is easy to determine Right
the fair fast luck to to come to
a conclusion that tell the damad, you know,
the the the the the the son-in
-law To to do taqzeeb Okay of the
uh to to publish a taqzeeb, right meaning
to publish denouncing his repentance Okay, then after
that if he does not die within the
miyad Mentioned by allah the almighty to me
then I am a liar Okay, when did
he say this?
When did he say this?
1896 Okay Let me complete let me complete
and then the second reference that you mentioned
he was after her he would this and
that Exactly the way that the christians spend
their entire life brother muhammad imtiaz said I
I am the most learned in this Wallahi,
it does not matter Christians have spent their
entire life studying the rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa
sallam.
Yes, they are not guided Yes, they are
not guys.
Yes, why correct is the intention?
But there is a there's a difference Okay.
Now, let me complete wait.
Wait imtiaz bhai imtiaz bhai.
You've had your time.
Let me let me speak with it Yeah,
yeah, let me give you the same point
then in majmua ishtarad in the first jizd.
No, no, wait ahmad You're raising a lot
of points.
It goes step by step just two points.
Just two points last point last point Yeah,
the prophet muhammad sallallahu alaihi wa sallam says
and I quote in urdu says We had
no need to mention uh to to request
for this For this proposal Every need of
mine was fulfilled by allah the almighty He
gave me children That
he will be uh, he will excel You
know, uh in in in his works and
and we and we know who he was
from from from the community's perspective The second
khalifa of the promise.
Okay, i'll have to stop you there because
you missed a few points You made a
few points This
sign was for the family That allah the
almighty shows them the sign so this prophecy
would only be false and this is my
last statement If ahmad did not die within
the prescribed time and when died the natural
reaction of the family Or if it was
that they considered the promised messiah to be
a liar They opposed him and they did
not do that.
But as he mentioned names of those, you
know family members who accepted the promised messiah
So I I'm, you know, people are dumbfounded
to sit here.
I think you spent three hours Discussing something,
you know an element of the prophecy which
promised messiah has himself explained in anjami atam
why that part of the Prophecy one that
that that the element of the prophecy that
was revoked in 1908.
Razi mentioned the reference as well So let's
not play with words.
Let's not play with references.
You claim you don't play with references.
Okay?
Okay, you're going on you're going on.
Okay Let me let me very quickly come
back to a few points because i'm not
going to take long as well Firstly, uh
the christians studying the prophet's life and not
believing in him They they are real disbelievers
kuffar for not believing in him because they
are Deliberately rejecting him knowing well that there
are clay cut Explicit prophecies about prophet muhammad
sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, which the quran refers
to okay So the reason why we blame
christians for not believing in the prophet and
hold them accountable is because there are clear
prophecies In the bible about muhammad rasulallah sallallahu
alaihi wa sallam, there's an arabian prophet i've
written a book on it It's being published.
It's in the process right now.
It's called abraham fulfilled.
It's coming out very soon That's my field.
One of my fields is comparative religion and
I have co-authored a book with three
authors alhamdulillah Um in total three authors is
coming out very soon Okay, so there are
prophecies upon prophecies about muhammad rasulallah sallallahu alaihi
wa sallam in the bible There are no
such prophecies about mirza ghulam ahmad qadiani Anywhere,
there is no mention of a prophet his
geography his characteristics His his uh his teachings.
There's nothing about him.
Okay Um, so this is this is one
point second point.
I wanted to mention is that you you
mentioned, uh very quickly about uh Him, uh,
you know in anjami atam you the first
quote you read Uh, where was that from?
1898 Page 32 page 32 and what was
the year?
The year the book is published in uh,
uh, 1896 1896 1896 and what did he
say in 1896 in this book?
What do you say?
He says Asan yeah No, no,
no, I I I just want a summary
you read it already I need a summary.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay Okay, he says The tell that the
the sultan muhammad who is uh, uh, you
know son-in-law There to publish Okay,
renouncing Me or or or or the repentance
that he did?
Okay.
Okay Whatever Him because now he has repented
so that me out of his death is
gone.
He has okay Okay Okay So what was
his crime what was his crime What was
the crime of sultan muhammad, what was the
crime of sultan muhammad tauba from what Sorry
The crime of sultan muhammad was what tauba
from what?
Tauba from what what do you mean?
What are you asking?
What crime did sultan muhammad commit?
From what crime did sultan muhammad commit?
Yeah for for what did he make tauba?
He he he believed that the prophecy that
was made against ahmad beig Was correct No,
no, no His crime was marrying muhammadi begum.
You you want to prolong it this discussion?
No Okay, i'm telling you he has accepted
that the proxy was fulfilled hence he Hence
he repented Imtiaz bhai wants to come in
very quickly.
Yes.
Yes.
Imtiaz bhai.
Come in, please Okay, first of all, uh,
uh ahmad, uh, welcome to the stream brother
Thank you So, uh brother ahmad, uh because
I there was one particular point, uh specifically
with my name So I just want to
address that first.
So brother ahmad, you know, you will agree
with me Everything has a context as they
say they're saying That a text without context
is pretext.
Okay, so nothing can be taken out of
context.
So when I mentioned That you can say
that I was compelled to mention That look,
I know the books of mirza sahib more
than anybody else why I have to say
this that the context was Brother ahmad right
from the beginning pretty much in every stream.
We are being taunted that we have not
read mirza's book We're taking them out of
context.
We're not reading in the in the in
the right context, etc, etc So in this
context brother ahmad that statement was made so
without that without having this context in brother
Into mind that statement obviously Is not the
right statement to make so that was very
important clarification And then brother i'm very quickly
because you mentioned even though our topic in
this second part of the stream was not
What we have discussing but because you mentioned
few things.
I just want to make a very you
know quick You can say observation as well,
which will be obviously off topic because we
are already off topic anyways, okay so brother,
uh, you mentioned that You brothers basically the
ahmadiyya community you maazallah you said that maazallah
we don't attack the prophet Are you still
uh agree with this?
Absolutely.
Okay now brother ahmad now brother ahmad.
Okay, brother The judgment of the of the
final day is a very crucial matter for
all of us Regardless of we are standing
on which side of the history.
Okay, brother now, let me quote you three
Passages they are very short passages very sweet
messages and I want you to respond Is
it attacking the prophet or not?
Okay.
So first I will quote and then I
let you respond brother.
Okay But we're going off topic Let me
respond to your point because What you mentioned
that ahmadiyya jamaat does not attack the prophet.
That's not a truthful statement.
I want to give you the evidence Okay,
brother In the in maktubat ahmad It is
the new edition volume number two page number
205 And this maktub is as you know,
very famous and very close person to mirza
sahib was muhammad ali nawaab Sardar muhammad ali
khan that was from malir kotla.
Obviously, you know this so uh, brother the
context is that people after the the debate
of uh of Abdullah atham, okay the people
some people including including the cousin of mirza
sahib's wife saeed They became apostate because their
understanding was that mirza sahib has lost the
debate and then From those people who mirza
sahib sent as an ambassador to negotiate the
terms of debate between him and abdullah atham
One of those people was yusuf patan yusuf
patan became apostate as well and there was
a great unrest in the jamaat in 1894
because the the term of abdullah atham death
has passed He did not die and the
christians were beating the drums in the street
and basically obviously they were Humiliating the someone
who was representing islam in this context in
this context Uh nawab muhammad khan of malir
kotla He wrote a very harsh letter to
mirza sahib and mirza sahib was very sad
because he mentioned his letter that look i'm
very You know upset because the thing you
mentioned this is the context Okay Now listen
what he said now mirza sahib is because
the issue is the issue is people have
become apostate Close relatives have become apostate people
from the response of the Wait, wait, it
is only one point only one point people
from jandiyala people from jandiyala This was a
place from where the people came to take
mirza sahib to represent them in the debate
with abdullah atham Those people also many people
from jandiyala became apostate as well So in
this context mirza sahib is giving a reply
And an answer to calm down the jamaat
and guess what he said.
I will quote world to world.
He said Okay In
english he's saying because the topic is people
becoming apostate mirza sahib said The in in
the event of hudaibiya when the first year
of hudaibiya journey when the umrah or the
pilgrimage was not performed Some of the some
of the sahaba Now is not talking about
the munafiqun some of the sahaba.
Okay from some of the muslimun They became
apostate now yesterday brother ahmad.
I did my research.
Okay, that is simply not true and it
is very painful You know why because the
hadith says that whoever gives pain to my
sahaba It is though as though as he's
giving pain to me.
Okay So if somebody is referring to sahaba
that they became And who which sahaba so
la hudaibiya the first year of hudaibiya journey
that resulted as a better is one Okay,
the pledge of better is one the people
who were given the glad tithing of Okay,
those people mirza is saying they became Is
it not the prophet why because attacking the
companion of the prophet according to hadith is
attacking the prophet himself, please respond Okay.
Thank you so much for that.
I think the the the the beauty of
this all is that the whatever, you know
We are nobody here.
Let's be let's be very honest us, you
know Who defending the honor of the promise
of sallallahu alayhi wa sallam the great greatest
lover of rasulullah?
He sallallahu alayhi wa sallam We are nobody
here He has himself answered all these things
in in his book and since you said
you have read all of his books You
must have read anwarul islam.
Have you read anwarul islam?
Is Yes or no, yes or no Why
why do you play these games answer it's
no games it's no games because you make
big Answer this question.
Have you have you?
I'm answering i'm answering i'm answering i'm gonna
ask you 50 questions about history books and
then you're gonna You know on page 28
the promise of sallallahu alayhi wa sallam says
in urdu and i quote Is Okay, then
he continues Oh, oh unknowledgeable person who is
a Enemy of allah enemy of allah enemy
of allah These
people were were kicked out of the jamaat
by the promised Please please stop Okay Murda
Murda To hum they became isai.
They became christians because because of wanting the
world He says and then to hump to
this That many many christians in these 15
months actually became muslims To So
this is about another allegation but Now, let
me complete you you spoke a very long
time He himself answers that these people were
kicked out of the points of islam himself
from from the community due to Due due
to them them themselves being fasiq Right, and
these people became christians because of their love
for duniya.
Now the second point that you made one
of the great No, no, no, you made
three four points.
Let me answer brother.
There's only one point You made point to
point One more point You made jandala point.
Let me address that point One of the
greatest, you know treachery that you guys do
and the biggest hypocrisy is when these jandala
mission Jandala muslims were going from corner to
corner asking muslims to come and represent them
again Against henry martin clark and your ulema
was saying to boycott this this mubasa They
said and this is quotation From and this
is for adnan to go back and see
from henry martin clark in the christian missionary
society themselves Okay, i'm also a student of
history and they said they could only find
a champion in mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian
They couldn't find anyone from the entirety of
india Okay, and you're telling me you're telling
me sitting here.
You're telling me the only person who debated
them and you're three minutes You're telling me
it's not going anywhere anyway guys Please please
relax Relax, relax.
Relax.
Let's not try to stick to two minutes
each because otherwise it just goes on and
on Okay, so so I think it'll be
good uh research for brother adnan mansoor and
all others who are listening to go And
search what the christian missionary?
Wrote about the promise let me complete please
don't interrupt about the promise messiah alaihe salatu
wassalam when when he represented the muslims Right
when he represented the muslims when every other
of your scholars was sleeping, right?
They were sleeping.
They were there.
They couldn't come forward.
Listen.
You're still not answering the question.
You're not answering the question You are is
not answering the question i'm going to rebuttal
please let him finish.
Okay, I think it's done now go on
Okay.
Okay, brother.
First of all, brother.
I'm sorry I want him to answer the
question Okay now brother ahmad first of all
Whatever you said That will be responded in
its due time.
I have taken notes of all the points
you mentioned and I promise you always all
of them Answer me a direct question Mirza
sahib said that some of the sahaba they
became murtad or apostate Because the first year
of hudaibiya the umrah or the pilgrimage was
not performed Is this statement a statement of
truth or is it an allegation?
On the sahaba and I explained before putting
allegation on sahaba according to the hadith Okay,
it is putting allegation on prophet.
Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam He said that whoever
give aza pain to my sahaba.
He has given pain to me And okay,
so understand this so, please give you only
have 30 seconds.
I want a clear response Mirza sahib said
some mukhlis sahaba became apostate after hudaibiya.
Do you agree or not?
Please give me direct answer If we prove
this from your own tafasir, would you become
an ahmadi?
Why don't you answer directly why you ask
a question with a question If we prove
this from your ahadith, you made a big
claim.
Would you become an ahmadi?
No irrelevant.
You need to answer the question rather than
asking another question Okay, the point is that
particular statement that you're mentioning.
It's not in front of me.
I haven't read it I would have to
go back read and come back to you.
That's fine.
No problem, but you made a point about
I will speak.
Okay.
We have to go point to point No,
not at all not at all.
Okay, my first question you said that you
do not have the answer Okay, when you
go home Okay, give the answer okay, okay,
I did not say I don't have the
answer so don't don't misquote me that's that's
no I said I haven't I think your
question was have you read what?
What?
My question is my question no, no, no,
I don't want people to be confused My
question was mirza sahib said that after the
first year of journey for For the pilgrimage
to towards hudaibiya When the umrah was not
performed some of the sahaba became murtad or
apostate.
Okay.
Okay If you agree with this Yes, I
agree.
If you don't agree say I don't agree
if I am no listen, let me finish.
Let me finish.
Okay I am not asking you that what
are them for sirun have written.
No i'm asking you Sahib said this do
you agree or not?
Okay, now let me speak for 30 seconds
and don't interrupt please don't interrupt okay Yes
So as I said first if you interrupt
it you people would see this When adaman
came to i-stream, even if it was
false, we did not agree.
We did not interrupt we let him speak
So have that patience for you know for
god's sake.
So the point i'm trying to make here
is That particular part that you're mentioning I
have not read i'm going to go back
and read and come back But the point
that you then went on about sahaba Is
about the allah one who will do and
as to show the people that we don't
respect sahaba is absolutely incorrect When rasulullah sallallahu
alaihi wasallam is told in kitab ut-tafsir
That on the day of judgment some of
his companions will be taken to * in
bukhari kitab ut-tafsir He says usai habi
usai habi These are my companions Rasulullah sallallahu
alaihi wasallam is told you do not know
what these people did after you And we
have the katiba wahi abdullah bin sarah who
also deserted islam So there were people who
did desert islam.
That's the point that i'm trying to make
it.
Okay What did rasulullah?
No, no, i'm not finished.
Please.
Relax.
Relax.
What did you said 30 seconds?
You said 30 seconds You have a very
bad management of time or understanding of time,
isn't it ahmed?
i'm finishing i'm finishing Rasulullah I'm saying the
hadith of rasulullah, please listen have respect for
rasulullah rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam said I would
say as the righteous man said Oh allah,
I was a guardian among these people as
long as I was among them Oh allah
When you raised me up or adnan when
he caused me to die Oh allah when
he caused me to die You were a
guardian over them he uses this in kitab
ut-tafsir it is a digression I accept
this What is this got to do with
this question nothing, why do you do this?
No, you said to respect and then you
are the one who is doing the disrespectful
thing by waffling by not answering the question
If you don't have an answer like you
said look, I haven't read it.
It should have stopped there Hadith of rasulullah
is a waffle.
Come on.
No, no waffle meaning not related to the
question Okay
now alhamdulillah the two things have been established
number one Who has read the books of
mirza sahib people can see now alhamdulillah Second
point is alhamdulillah.
He admitted clearly And I will have good
assumption as a muslim.
We always have good assumption I would not
try to say that maybe he's trying to
hide.
No, I will have good assumption He said
that I do not have the answer for
this particular reference Okay Now ahmad, please note
down this point then in the next team
when you come the first point you need
to address is this one Mirza sahib said
that after the first year of journey towards
hudaibiya some of the sahaba became You have
to tell us when mirza said this was
it a truthful statement or was it a
lie that point is finished now Because the
topic is wait.
I'm at the topic is because you made
a very big claim in the beginning You
said that you ahmadis do not attack or
maybe disrespect the prophet.
I am just portraying for the people.
Please be quiet I'm just portraying for the
people that that is not simply true.
Okay Now i'm going to give you the
second example first one is done.
Now i'm giving you the second example.
Okay now, please No, no one second You're
being very kind to them very compassionate not
with these people not with these people this
this missionary type Okay Just listen to me
just once listen to me listen to me
you're letting him off the hook Here you
asked him a very clear question Okay, you're
letting him off the hook.
You're moving on to something else without establishing.
I am not we were I am not
Okay, wait, wait He needs to tell us
Where did the mirza?
Where did the prophet get this reference from?
And where are the apostasies after hudaibiya I
really look look why is this important imtiaz
by why am I doing this?
I'm doing this so people know mirza was
a liar He was lying uh through his
teeth And if you move on this point
will be unestablished.
I am not moving on please.
Okay.
Okay.
Wait, okay He needs to show us Where
are those sahaba?
Who apostatized after hudaibiya if that's not the
case If they did not apostatize after hudaibiya
or during the time of hudaibiya and if
ibn kathir didn't say it Why was mirza
making this up?
I need him to do answer now over
to you now You can talk over I
want this answer from him.
Yeah No, no, because because look adnan bhai
we all have different personalities different style of
discussion.
Okay, my style is this okay?
He admitted that he does not know about
this particular reference.
No problem.
No problem.
We have noted it down Adnan let me
speak.
We will read it.
We will read it to him Yeah, allow
me to finish brother, please yeah, okay I
have showed to the people my point what
i'm trying to show to the people is
that this statement that Ahmadiyya jamaat or mirza
ghulam ahmad did not attack the prophet.
That is not a truthful statement I am
showing examples on this subject.
I gave one example of hudaibiya apostasy Okay,
now i'm gonna give him second example on
the same topic and I want people to
take note and Please I want people to
listen very carefully in ruhani khazaim volume number
15 Page number 535 Okay, okay imtiaz bhai
one second Is this going to support the
same point that mirza was insulting the prophets
and the sahaba, correct?
Yes, correct Wait, wait there.
Hold on.
Hold on there.
Hold it there.
Hold it there before we go to that
imtiaz bhai here mirza is basically Lying he
has already lied and you're moving on from
that We will go to that point you're
raising I want ahmad I want ahmad to
tell us did mirza lie And if he
lied Why did he lie?
And if he lied, he's a false prophet.
Yeah, because he doesn't know so we will
let him go Okay, can can you read
the reference?
Okay.
Sorry one second.
I'm not going forward guys Because guys if
you said if i'm the ameer on the
stream i'm not moving forward until this point
is established Uh, uh imtiaz bhai should we
let ahmad go so he can research and
come back no, no Maybe show it on
the screen if you have it wait guys,
can I can can you can you let
me handle this imtiaz bhai?
Can you read the reference again?
One once again before we move on to
the next point which we will allow you
to make You are more than welcome to
make that point.
But before we go there, I need this
one to be dealt with Read the reference
again, please.
Okay.
I'm gonna read the reference for the audience
again And I don't want to go into
the context the context very quickly is Some
people have from the jamaat of mirza.
You've explained it.
You've explained it Some people from the jamaat
of mirza sahib have become apostate Okay, and
people there's a great unrest in the jamaat
in this context.
Mirza sahib is giving A reply to his
people on the topic of apostasy what he
said.
He said that Okay, and
he's saying this with regard to the first
and this is in the New edition second
volume page 205 Okay.
Now what is what he said?
He said that many people became apostate Because
of the first year journey towards hudaibiya when
umrah was not performed He is drawing a
parallel between this and when people his from
his jamaat became apostate what he's doing is
He is answering a direct question to his
jamaat The okay if this is the case
with me if my people have become apostate
so was the case Please everybody pay attention
if my people have become apostate So was
the case with the jamaat of prophet muhammad
sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
This is how is Doing the answer so
ahmad Has said and I want to still
respect his position He said that he does
not know how to answer this particular point
Or he may be no, no, no, no,
no, no, wait, you you don't do that
for him.
You don't do that Okay, wait, you have
read the quote.
Thank you imtiaz bhai.
Thank you very much.
Allah bless you You read the quote the
quote is there muktubadi ahmad volume two.
Okay, you you have given the page number
as well mirza said it that uh sahaba
sahaba sahaba apostatized At the time of sulh
udaibiya I want ahmad to produce those references
from the history of islam and if that's
not the case Then mirza is a liar
Okay, can I respond Yes directly Don't bother.
No, listen, don't dictate adnan.
You don't know ask something answer the question
You don't have an answer say I don't
say I don't have an answer Is that
what we did to you?
No, is that how we treated you go
back to your stream go back to your
stream Listen to it again.
I wasn't waffling.
I was giving direct answers.
He was waffling.
He was a lot.
Okay, that's fine Let people should have called
him out if he was waffling.
Yeah.
No, no, why why were you being?
We would like an answer ahmad from you
go on directly is not respecting is disrespecting
the time of everyone No, i'm not disrespectful.
I don't have time to waste it Relax
and listen.
Yeah, okay.
You think it's some of them a huge
point that you've made?
Okay First of all, as I mentioned there
is a fact that companions from the life
of rasulullah.
Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam Some of them did
desert Some and okay, this is stop this
i'm gonna stop you now.
I'm gonna stop you now stop playing games
We're not answering that question.
We're not asking that question.
We know the history.
I I'm teaching sira I'm teaching sira brother
Time i'm asking a question did people did
people mirza is talking about Yeah, did people
did sahaba apostatized at the time of hudaibiya
if they did What are their names?
Okay, because he said multiple he said many
Who are they?
And if that's not the case, then what
is mirza?
Look simple simple.
I I hope I hope hundreds of people
watching this live right now.
I don't know There could be thousands watching
no problem listen to the answer and if
you don't agree with that you say you
have an answer No, no, no, no, no
either No, either either mirza sahib is telling
the truth.
He got it from somewhere, which is fine.
No problem We are we would happy to
be stand corrected.
Okay Okay, if not If not, then mirza
sahib made it up in which case he's
a liar.
Which one is it?
No, i'm i'm i'm i'm not going i'm
not going by your dedication here No, i'm
not dictating i'm not dictating you tell me
to answer if you need If you need
help if you need help go out of
the stream speak to your scholars speak wait
ahmed Go back go out of the stream
speak to your murabbis your scholars.
How the * do we deal with this
one?
And if you have answers wallahi, we'll let
you in we'll let you in again.
We are still here We're gonna let someone
someone else in if you can't answer this
question.
I'm not going to move forward.
I am not going forward Okay, wait wait
imtiaz bhai wait wait wait, I know what
i'm doing wait I have I have 15.
Yeah, I have 15 15 to 20 years
of debating experience.
Trust me Okay, so i'm asking you ahmed.
I'm asking you ahmed ahmed mirza said at
hudaibiyah Many companions apostatized Yeah, and he attributed
this information to ibn kathir Where is it?
And who are the companions?
Okay, and if that's not the case Mirza
made it up And in that case mirza
is a liar.
Which one is it?
Okay, let me answer.
Let me answer.
Yeah.
Yeah Okay, if we show you from your
mufasireen that this exists Whether in ibn kathir
or any other book listen, no, no mirza
Look, look show me show me listen to
what?
Read read don't waste time then read read
Listen open your mind and listen and try
to understand what i'm saying Okay, I am
saying and brother imtiaz by allah i'm saying
this i'm not aware of that quote We're
going to go back and look into this.
Okay, but the point i'm trying to say
this listen Listen, let me complete the points
relax relax relax.
I am aware of a reference mentioned in
tabari, which I have read Okay, when which
mentions that sahaba was put under a trial
a fitna because of this But I haven't
read this particular reference But the point is
we we have we are having a stream
on 16th and we're going to they're going
to answer Please and we would want You
can speak one second give me one minute
Could you please come on to that stream
and order the other man as well?
So so we can discuss that further.
No, you can you can you can come
here.
We don't have to go to your stream
Okay.
Okay.
One second.
I just make one observation very quickly.
You you can once you buy it What
i'm saying is because ahmed is unable to
provide anything So, why don't we let ahmed
go because there are other qadian is waiting
So ahmed can go and search for that
reference and come back because that's how we're
not letting him off the hook He has
to come back and only deal with the
subject That's something different because he doesn't know
so let us give him the chance to
go and search I want to just make
a final observation on this one.
Yes, please do please do very quickly.
Go ahead, please Okay, i've found a reference
one second.
Okay, you found the reference brilliant.
Go ahead read We will happy we'll happily
stand give me a second i'm opening it
one second.
Yeah one second Bring it on You're going
to show us how many companions of course
twice Right.
I'm just going to take a break.
Uh, mansoor, you want to take over please?
Yeah, that's fine Hashim Yeah, i'll be back.
Yeah, you know if they misbehave I will
keep them out We'll we'll see you soon.
Come back.
Don't disappear, please.
I'll be back Okay, one second.
Okay ahmed One second i'm reading i'm reading
one second.
Yeah I'm, i'm looking at right now and
i'm seeing whether that is that exact reference
or not I'm, let me i'm i'm i'm
let me help you on one thing.
I'm a let me have one thing yesterday
yesterday Alhamdulillah, we went through the entire tafsir
ibn kaseer on this surah.
Okay, it is not there.
It is not there So For
this for this particular reference for this particular
reference what you are asking for we will
answer this But can we can we continue
the discussion for which you have started?
I want to see I want to speak.
I want to speak You're not very capable.
So you should stay silent.
You think you're very capable you're here to
manage so just relax.
No, please Please ahmed.
Don't be Second one second.
I don't want people to Give me mannerisms
on my stream If you want to have
a discussion Discuss properly you asked you were
you were asked for a reference If you
don't know it, that's it.
We will give you the time Go ask
your murabbi's your elders your your your learned
people and come back rather than insulting us
in how we perform our streams If you
know better, you know, you do that in
your stream, but here we don't want i'll
give you both the chance to speak And
see whether you want him back or not
If you want to continue discussing look at
the comments and look at the people who
are watching They are fed up with your
waffling With your metaphorical interpretation with your digression
and so on I may not be as
Very humble and very passionate in terms of
you know, you know in terms of how
people deal with the people I will kick
people out from this stream if they misbehave
I told you very beginning like when hashim
said Okay, he wants to break and he's
handing over to me for moderation I will
show no mercy if you misbehave It's not
like oh, it's your right Yeah, you come
here you behave if you don't behave then
you don't have the opportunity to speak here
You can go on your stream and you
can waffle all you want you can waffle
24 7 But the truth becomes clear because
we are trying to establish truth here.
We want to let people know whether Mirza
sahib is a liar or not because if
he is a prophet his prophecies must come
true must be fulfilled and our Panelists, you
know, our esteemed panelists are demonstrating for the
last few sessions in the streams, but it's
not the case He is indeed a liar.
You are unable to defend your false prophet
so Before I want to ask brother adnan
and brother muhammad.
He asked do you want him back?
Because only on this condition he doesn't talk
about how we conduct our stream He doesn't
talk about how he conducted in his stream.
He answers directly if he doesn't answer directly
I'm afraid he cannot have any opportunities here
Here's my suggestion It is fair to give
him one last chance Give him one minute
if he has an answer he can answer
But if he does not answer in his
one minute, that will be only fair ahmed
by you can go back And when you
come next week, we'll begin from where we
left off this particular reference That's my suggestion.
Yeah, and there always will be direct answers
Without any waffling.
I don't tolerate any waffles here If people
don't know what waffling is they can go
to a dictionary and find out what waffling
and blathering is about blather What is blathering?
What does it mean droning blathering waffling?
You know, this stream is to benefit people
in terms of how Yeah Before you let
him in I want I want the people
to know Why we're doing this this is
not just out of the blue brother imtiaz
pulled out this reference And we are holding
on to it.
This is not being petty.
This is very important This shows how much
of a liar this man was he was
making up information on the spot and throwing
it at people for example He claimed that
there is a hadith from the prophet where
he said that there is a black skinned
prophet from india Whose name was kahin also
known as kishan and kanaiya krishan and kanaiya.
Okay, there is no such hadith We we
we asked them this question.
They cannot find it and they're making it
up One of them actually razi razi in
one of the streams.
He added the words kala nabiyun Kala nabiyun
and when we grabbed him on that He
admitted that these words are not there in
the text and then he said it is
in tariq hamdan It is not there.
There is no such thing, right?
So mirza made this up then mirza claimed
then mirza claimed that uh a prophet The
masih the the mahdi will come in the
14th century Hijri, okay, and he attributed this
information to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam.
There is no such hadith There's no mention
of the 14th century in any of the
hadiths of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam
Then he claimed mirza that there's a hadith
in sahih al-bukhari having explained the virtues
of sahih al-bukhari The ahmadi play these
games.
They say oh he forgot mirza forgot mirza
made an error Okay, this cannot be an
istihadi error or this cannot be an error
of forgetfulness because two things Mirza is explaining
what bukhari is He explains what bukhari is
and then he attributes the hadith to bukhari
That these words are there in sahih al
-bukhari and they're not in sahih al-bukhari.
Okay, those words are not there He attributed
this information to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa
sallam through bukhari it's not there So it's
not just one example.
We're not being petty.
There are multiple examples of mirza lying through
his teeth Making information up on the spot
and his gullible crowd They they followed him
and now when we question question all these
things these guys they play games Bring him
back on and let him answer the question
directly.
How many of them apostatized?
At hudaibiya, what are their names?
And where did mirza get this from?
And does ibn kathir even mention it?
Okay, thank you for uh taking me back
so the point uh that I want to
ask you is you read the reference Does
it mention the word sahaba there?
Imtiaz bhai read it again, please Okay, I
read the You want me to read the
text ahmed bhai?
Yes Do you want me to read the
text and then you can respond okay, can
I read okay Before you read one second
imtiaz bhai before you read This is how
absurd These some of these people are i'm
sorry It says they apostatized From what islam,
right?
And they were with the prophet So if
they were muslims and from islam they apostatized
to kufr What were the sahaba or something
else?
ahmed No, no.
No, I know what you're saying what i'm
saying when you called something What kind of
question is this ahmed what kind of question
is this no because If they were If
they were muslims and they were at hudaibiya
with the prophet What do you think they
were whenever is there a third status Whenever
we present a reference to you, you always
want us to pull it up You want
you wanted razi to explain it all of
it, right?
Okay You don't tell me please read the
reference.
That's the only reason why I asked you
imtiaz bhai.
Please read the reference again please Okay, ahmed,
uh, brother ahmed Is your defenses that people
became murtad but they were not sahaba, please
answer the question Sorry, sorry say say say
say that again brother ahmed is your defense
is that those people It's not my defense.
I'm asking the question.
No, no, please.
Let me let me speak brother.
Let me speak brother Okay, if you're gonna
go to this nitty-gritty we can go
as well.
Okay, brother, please allow me to speak Answer
my direct question those people Who are mentioned
in this quotation?
Are you trying to say?
They were not sahaba yes or no Of
course the sahaba they're finished.
Okay, we don't need that.
Let's move on give the answer now Okay
Now what what i'm saying is the the
thing that i've been looking and the thing
that is in front of me it says
This is the arabic mentioned in ibn kathir
But there is a difference of opinion because
some say it's with regards to isra and
the other others commentators or other mufasireen have
said it's with regards to um You know
about about sulah ud-dabiya But but sahaba
of course died on islam.
That's the point.
So that's what i'm saying.
This this requires further reading You can't accuse
someone of of of lying because that wasn't
the topic of discussion that when I came
on that wasn't the top topic of discussion
we were having therefore Therefore, I know brother,
uh muhammad in in tiaz You were given
the respect and you're saying go back and
whenever we can have a discussion That's why
we're calling you for the for the stream
on the 16th and we can discuss this
Discuss particularly this this topic in detail if
you want Please.
Okay.
Okay brother ahmad.
Okay brother ahmad because people have already uh,
listen What you have to say what I
have to say now matter has ended on
this point that you need to do more
Research on this particular reference when you come
brother ahmad next time we'll begin from here
No, but why can't we discuss some some?
You know the points that you were making
with regards to you know The truthfulness of
of a prophet and the signs of being
a truthfulness prophet.
No, no We'll go find direction is that
nothing else we discuss with you ahmad only
this point Sorry, yeah Nothing else will be
discussed with you only this point and this
is your homework when you come back again
with a good answer Then you'll be in
we'll let you in and you can express
yourself Yeah, and before you go ahmad I
have some uh homework for you a tip
okay Uh allah subhanahu wa ta'ala said
about these sahaba who were with the prophet
sallallahu sallam who gave it Their pledge of
allegiance Uh to him under the tree allah
said about them Allah is
pleased with the believers Okay, when they gave
their pledge of allegiance under the tree Okay,
this was one thousand four hundred Companions of
rasool allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam according to
most reports.
Okay If there were apostasies, we would have
known them.
They would have been reported There was no
such thing mirza made it up on the
spot Uh, because he was baffled or he
was rattled by the fact that many of
his uh followers are leaving him So he
just came up with this quick.
Uh Quick fix and now this quick fix
is going to be a lock in your
neck We'll let him go He himself has
commented on this verse.
So for you to say that he that
this is your source of How does that
help you his commentary, how does it help
We have to let you go ahmad, um
Next time, please.
Um, the first thing that you'll be discussing
is this particular question that brother mt asked
you and nothing else so we expect from
you a well Researched reading and study from
you with your murabbis with your own own
self introspecting and so on on this very
question Okay.
Thanks for coming to our eyes.
Thank you