Adnan Rashid – Qadiani Desperation on Failed Prophecies
AI: Summary ©
The segment discusses various references to the prophecy of the promised Messiah, including his age span, peace, and the birth of his father. The importance of knowing the exact age of Messiah is emphasized, as it is crucial to verify the truthfulness of his claim. The speakers provide examples of references to events related to Messiah's birth, death, and death, as well as statements made by different speakers. The segment ends with a statement of satisfaction and a promise to share information.
AI: Summary ©
So the prophecy is that Mirza sahib claim
that Allah wants to give a sign for
the future generations to verify the truthfulness or
falsehood of Mirza sahib.
And how Allah did that, Allah gave a
revelation or nishan or a miracle to Mirza
sahib and that was that his age span
will be between 74 to 86.
Now there are many references on that.
I gave you the gist of that, number
one, and number two, I gave you the
gist which is accepted by the Jamaat, that
is age span will be from 74 to
86.
Now we have shown in the previous stream,
there was a lot of back and forth
discussion and we have clearly said, and we
have shown many references, okay, they've been responded
as well, that it did not happen.
And now the Jamaat Ahmadiyya, the only way,
this is the key point of discussion today,
the Jamaat Ahmadiyya, the only way they have
been able to achieve this fulfillment of the
prophecy that they came up with the research
that Mirza sahib was not born in 1839
to 1840, rather he was born in 1835.
So now this is the matter being discussed.
So if any brother coming and they want
to discuss, please keep in mind this is
the prophecy and this is the discussion, over
to Yashin Bhai.
Right.
We'll get the next, Fateh Islam, are you
there?
Peace be upon you.
Fateh Islam.
Peace be upon you.
JazakAllah brother.
You heard the third?
Yeah, I heard the third.
Okay.
Let me share my screen.
The third prophecy.
I'll respond about that prophecy.
Okay.
And categorically, I will mention all those references
which were presented by brother Imtiaz in the
last.
Yashin Bhai, how much time each person has?
Yeah, so two minutes, two minutes each.
Yeah, I'll try my best to be covering
in these two minutes.
The first reference was presented by brother Imtiaz
was Tofa Goluriya.
In that, he mentioned that the Promised Messiah,
Islam, prophesizing that I'll get the age of
40 years after my claim.
In that context, nowhere Promised Messiah, peace be
upon him, mentioned that categorically like I'm, I'm
prophesizing something about the 40 years after the
claim of Messiahship.
Second reference, which is given by the brother
is Azala Aham, Ruhani Khazain, Jill 3, page
414.
Over here.
Also, it is not mentioned.
The point which is Promised Messiah is mentioning
here.
He's refuting non-MDS claims like the promise
that Jesus, once he came, he'll get the
age of 40.
And if we read other Ahadith, which are
categorically mentioning that he will stay about 40
years.
By that, the Jesus was raised as per
non-MDS belief alive at the age of
33.
And after that, once he get the 40
years age, the total age will be not
the 120 years, which is marked in the
different other Ahadith.
So I'm coming towards the age here.
Categorically, Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, in
Ruhani Khazain, Volume 21.
The lines are, The Promised Messiah is claiming
that I get revelation from the God at
the age of 40 years.
And in the very next reference, that is
from the Hamamatul Bushra.
Over here, Promised Messiah, peace be upon him,
mentioned clearly that I was about 40 years
age once I got revelation from the God.
And after that, he mentioned that over here
also, once I got the revelation, about 25
years or more than that.
The brother Imtiaz only mentioned that the Promised
Messiah in Zamima Brahiney Ahmadiyya Panjim that he
did Dawa about 25 years.
But Promised Messiah is clearly mentioning that Clearly
mentioning over here, I marked that.
I'll try to zoom and show you.
Has there not been two minutes?
Just give me one minute, please.
I just want to complete because I'm One
second.
Let me finish my case at least.
Azam-e, please let him finish.
Azam-e, let him finish.
Okay.
Okay.
So the first point from where brother Imtiaz
marked that, Please keep in mind.
In that book also, Promised Messiah, peace be
upon him, mentioned that The
Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, clearly mentioned
that you will get the age of 80
years less than less four or five less
or more.
And you will see a four generation.
And he's clearly mentioning that that revelation is
published about 35 years.
Now, I showed the references.
The Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, got
the first revelation about the age of 40.
It's been four minutes?
Just one minute, max.
One minute, max.
Bro, why don't you make the next point
in the next section?
Now that's breaking the foundation of all that
I can say.
The foundation was two minutes.
What are you on about?
We gave you four minutes.
Double the time.
You can take four minutes or you can
take five minutes.
After that, I'll try my best to follow
that.
I want to present my case.
One more minute.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
35 plus 40.
75.
And that book was published.
And that book was published.
Tophagoria in 1902.
And Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, passed
away from that world in 1908.
So, once we categorically do the simple math.
40 plus 35, 75.
And 75 plus 6, 81 years of age.
And Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, clearly
mentioned that.
Once somebody asked him, how much is your
age?
He categorically mentioned that.
He clearly mentioned.
In that categorically, somebody asked.
Okay, it's been five minutes now.
I'm just translating that into English so listener
can understand.
And after that, you can go through.
My only, my real age only God knows,
but what I know is about 70 years
and that's wallahu alam.
So it clearly means from the basic point
from where you'd raise the allegation, you started
your allegation about the prophecy 1902.
So I did the simple math and after
that, that's proving and real age.
We don't know the promise Messiah clearly mentioned.
I don't know.
Only the Allah knows.
Oh, okay.
Wherever he mentioned that it's a, it's a
idea.
Okay, good.
So you can take six minutes too.
Okay.
Inshallah.
I will respond inshallah very quickly.
First of all, I clearly mentioned before this
brother came in, they are two separate points.
One point is that how much will be
the mission of the Messiah after he will
be making his claim.
That was one point.
And this was not the point of, I
really sympathize with the brother.
He spent a lot of time on this
one, but we are all human.
He misunderstood that I can understand.
That's why I was trying to stop him
in the beginning.
I don't want to interrupt him because he
was, he was very passionate.
We should respect people's emotions.
So all of that, what he said about,
you know, the 40 years of mission, that
was irrelevant.
Okay.
That's one point.
So then whatever he has mentioned about the
age, now here is the question.
I will ask him very direct questions and
please give me the direct answer on the
prophecy of age.
Okay.
So point number one, it is not Mirza
from his own desire.
He says that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala
wants to give a sign to the future
generations.
So people can know the truthfulness or falsehood
of his claim.
And this sign will be his age span
will be from 74 to 86.
Now if Allah is the one who is
giving us this revelation and Allah wants us
to test him on this one, there's one
necessary information Allah must give us.
That is the date of birth of Mirza
sahib.
Because without knowing the date of birth, there
is no way, because there are two things.
And by the way, because time is short,
I have references from the official website of
Al-Hakam, which is the official newspaper of
the Jamaat.
They say that in order to know the
age span of Messiah, we need two points,
his date of birth, his date of death.
Obviously we know his date of death, but
we don't know his date of birth.
So my question number one, which any Hamadi
needs to please address, if Allah is giving
us a sign that he will live this
much and Allah is not telling us his
date of birth, what is the point of
this sign anyways?
That is first question.
My second question is, you have not mentioned
in all of your talk, are you agreeing
that his date of birth was 1835?
Is that agree?
So please, in your turn, give us a
clear answer that yes, you are agreeing with
this, so that inshallah I can respond to
that one.
And then inshallah, last point I want to
address, he gave few references that he gave
a mathematical calculation.
Guess what?
This is the biggest blunder, unfortunately, with all
due respect, Mirza sahib have made in his
book.
Because when I will pull all of his
reference, I have no choice but to say
that Mirza was lying.
He was lying in his writing about his
age.
And if some Ahmadi, this brother, anybody, because
if you want to challenge on this one,
this can be because he quoted many references
to give the impression.
So I am making a clear statement that
there are two options.
Let me state two options, either Mirza was
lying or he was confused.
Jamaat has adopted the second option that he
was always telling his age with his own
memory and he was making the mistake.
That's fine.
If you want to go by this one,
I am happy with this one.
But then the question will be, the question
is this.
If he was making mistake in his date
of birth and his date of birth is
the crucial information to verify the truth of
this prophecy, then Allah must correct him.
Did Allah correct him?
So there are only two answers and only
two questions that you need to answer.
Question number one is Allah must give us
the date of birth.
Otherwise, what is the point of this Nishan
or this miracle?
Number two, when Mirza was mistaken, according to
the official response of the Jamaat, I have
read that Mirza was telling his date with
his memory.
He was making the mistake.
My question is, if he was mistaken on
this information and this was crucial, did Allah
correct him?
These are only two answers.
Okay.
Okay, brother.
The first thing you said, Allah corrected him
or not?
I can give you the alzami jawab easily,
like the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him,
was revealed.
Just now my turn.
The Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, asked
about the Shab-e-Qadr.
Allah revealed him about the Shab-e-Qadr.
And once he came out from the house,
people were fighting and he forgot.
He can ask Allah, give me the exact
date again.
Did Allah didn't reveal him?
So you and me cannot challenge that or
you cannot, you and me cannot ask about
it.
Second thing, once somebody asks the Promised Messiah,
peace be upon him, what is your exact
age?
The Promised Messiah, peace be upon him, clearly
mentioned that.
The exact age, I don't know.
Then after that, there is nothing left.
After that, the thing is that the actual,
the actual, what we can say, the nafs
-e-peshgoi, the actual nafs-e-peshgoi of
that prediction was, you will get the long
age and you will see the four generations
and people cannot kill you, Yasin-u-Kamil
-an-Nas.
So first, we have to understand and build
the thing.
And once your own scholars admitted at the
time of, I'm just sharing my screen.
If you, brother Hashim, can you share my
screen so I can show the reference of
Let's go point by point, let me respond
to this point first, then you can go
on.
So I responded to your points, Alhamdulillah.
Now let Imtiaz come back and then you
can come back with your reference.
Okay.
So brothers and sisters, please pay attention.
My question was, Allah wanted to give us
a miracle to verify the truth of Mirza
Sahib.
And for this miracle to be verified, there
was one crucial information and that was the
date of birth of Mirza Sahib, which must
have been told to us, because otherwise there's
no way for us to verify this miracle.
Now, he responded this question by saying, the
Prophet, he did not know the exact day
of Ramadan when is Laila-tul-Qadr.
My brother, please understand, you are comparing the
apple and the, or it's called the Qayas
Mal Fariq, because Prophet did not say that
this is going to be the sign, you
know, that you will be knowing the date
of, there's no such thing.
These two things are completely different.
Please don't confuse them.
Knowing the data, knowing the exact date of
Laila-tul-Qadr has no impact on the
truthfulness or falsehood of Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.
And that is not the case with this
prophecy.
And then after that, second thing, you did
not respond at all, because my second point
was, did Allah, I'm not saying that did
he say, I don't know.
My question was, he was mistaken on his
date of birth and date of birth was
a crucial information to verify this prophecy.
Did Allah correct him on this?
The answer is no.
Then how would we address the problem?
Mirza Sahib said that Allah will not leave
me on mistake.
Mirza Sahib left this duniya on this mistake.
So how would you deal with this one?
And last point you mentioned was that he
did live the long age.
My beloved brother, please pay attention.
Mirza Sahib gave us two limits of his
age, 74 up till 86.
Okay.
My brother, pay attention.
These are called the lower limit and the
upper limit.
The lower limit was 74 and the upper
limit was 86.
According to the date of birth given by
Jamaat, he lived the lower limit.
Okay.
If somebody from a range lives the lower
limit, how can we say that Allah gave
him the long life?
Okay.
Please understand what I'm trying to say.
And please respond to the question directly.
Alhamdulillah, I'm responding that questions directly, very directly.
And the thing which I showed you from
the Sunnah of the promised Messiah, which is
Uswa-e-Hasna, the best exemplary.
If the thing, the Allah mentioned that, deliver
whatever is revealed on you.
So the Laylatul Qadr is the very most,
one of the major signs of the Prophet
Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.
And once somebody asked you with your own
standards, with your own standards, the promised Messiah,
the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam didn't categorically
mention that.
We cannot ask Allah, why you didn't categorically
reveal that to Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam
again?
So there is nothing left.
And after that, my brother, see, once the
promised Messiah is prophesying that state, that prophecy,
he's clearly mentioning that, and after
that, you will see the fourth generation.
And in that prophecy, it is clearly mentioned.
And the other way, other way around, I
prove you from the promised Messiah's books and
the very books which you categorically pick as
a first reference of your allegation.
So I prove from that thing, you didn't
refute that.
And other thing is that, that once somebody
meets the minimum standard, if somebody meets the
minimum standard, will that follow?
If you are a teacher, if you are
a teacher and somebody took the minimum standard,
minimum marks, passing marks, will he pass or
fail?
It doesn't matter for you.
If you say the Jama'at is telling
the minimum criteria, that's the one research.
And there are many other things, but Jama
'at everywhere, when somebody asked about the categorically
age, Jama'at clearly mentioned that Allah knows
the best.
But whatever we figure out from the books,
from the documents, because in the old age,
in the old time, nobody have the categorical,
categorical records.
If you go to the just the database
of the Pakistan, that Nadra office, and if
you go back from 100 to 10, how
much time?
Your time is up, two minutes.
Okay, Ashim bhai, because obviously everybody can listen,
is not responding to inshallah, this is the
last time inshallah, I'm going to say, and
if you want to respond.
No need to repeat if you're repeating the
same thing.
That's fine.
That's fine.
I just want to inshallah educate the other
Ahmadis as well.
So he was raising the point of Laylatul
Qadr.
I already responded, my dear brother, that Laylatul
Qadr has nothing to do, knowing the date
of Laylatul Qadr has nothing to do to
testify the truthfulness or maazallah, the falsehood of
Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.
It has nothing to do with that.
But the prophecy of his date of birth,
that is crucial, that has to be known.
Otherwise, there is no way for us to
verify the truthfulness of this prophecy.
And we know Allah is Al Haqq.
Al Haqq means the one who does everything
for wisdom and reason and purpose.
Why would Allah give us a sign that
is related to his date of birth and
won't tell us his date of birth?
How would you make sense of this?
That's one point.
Second point is, he says that why don't
we ask Allah?
Why, oh Prophet, go and ask Allah about
Laylatul Qadr.
I have already responded, Laylatul Qadr has nothing
to do with the truthfulness of our Prophet
Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.
Okay.
And then he said that he responded by
the first reference of Sufa Gholudviya, which I
did not respond.
My brother, I already told you that we
are not discussing the mission of Messiah.
That's a different prophecy.
And I don't want to go on something
which is not the topic of our discussion.
After that, you said that research is done.
And according to one research, it is 1835.
I want every Ahmadi to listen.
This admission that Jamaat has to do a
research after the death of Mirza Sahib, it
is a conclusive proof, conclusive proof that Allah
did not correct him on his date of
birth.
While on the other hand, his claim was
Allah will not leave him on mistake.
So even this one point can prove him
wrong because there are two premises.
Premise one, he said that Allah will not
make me on mistake.
Premise two, he was left on mistake in
the case of his date of birth.
So the conclusion that logically follows is that
he was not a true Messiah.
And this Ilham was not from Allah.
And very quickly, last point, he said that
go to Pakistan, the record.
My brother, we are not talking about any
human thing.
It is Allah.
Mirza said that Allah is giving me the
Ilham and it is Allah who wants to
make it a sign.
So please don't quote those irrelevant things.
I am 100% sure all Ahmadis believe,
inshallah, that Allah knows the date of birth
of Mirza.
But we are not told his date of
birth.
So please, brother, if you have any answer,
my request is please do in this last.
Otherwise, let's move on, inshallah.
I agree.
Jazakumullah, Jazakumullah.
So first of all, I talk about the
Nafs-e-Peshguih.
And in the same categorically, in the same
Peshguih, the Promised Messiah categorically mentioned that.
About in the Tazkirah, page five, it is
mentioned, Like,
the enemies want me to die as early
as I can.
But Allah will give you that much age,
you will see the four generations.
And brother Hashim, can you share my screen,
if you can?
Once I showed, this is the Sanaw-ul
-Amritsari, at the time of Promised Messiah.
And he is giving that statement in 1907.
1907, once the Promised Messiah was alive.
He is saying that, So
Allah revealed to him that you had fulfilled
that prophecy.
Like, I will love, brother Imtiaz, you will
translate that.
You will translate that for me.
You will translate for the audience.
I will leave up to you.
Categorically, do it word by word, once your
time.
His time is up.
So, why do you want him to translate
in his time?
No, no, no.
Give him 30 seconds.
Yeah, you translate it in your time.
Yeah, yeah.
I'll give him extra time after that.
Don't worry.
So, promise Messiah clearly mentioned, sorry, Sinaulam Raksari
accepted that the promise Messiah has fulfilled that
all the, all the up and downs of
that, the promise of that promise of that
prophecy.
Sorry.
So non-believers are accepting at that time.
Nobody was complaining, but I, we know that
once the promise passed away, people are do
that.
Okay.
You're done brother?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Hashim Bhai, Inshallah.
This is my conclusive Inshallah response on this
one because people can Inshallah see after that.
Okay.
So he is repeatedly saying this point that,
can you remove the screen?
Yeah.
If you, if you can translate for the
audience, then I'll do that.
I don't want to translate, please remove it.
Just unshare it.
So you are accepting that?
I will respond from my own.
Okay.
We can't force to how to respond.
Okay brother, please.
So, okay.
Brothers and sisters, listen very carefully.
He's repeatedly saying that there was a Ilham,
a revelation.
Allah told to Mirza Sahib that you will
live and you will see distant generations.
Door ki nasal, distant generation.
I have said for every reasonable person, there
were two limits of his age.
Minimum limit was 74 and the upper limit
was 86.
And even if, even if we go by
the date of birth of the Jamaat, he
lived the lower limit.
So how can you say that he was
able to see the distant generation?
Please think about it.
You're not thinking about it.
Okay.
Next point.
He said, he said that the enemies will
wish for your death.
And guess what brother, this is exactly what
happened.
He died at the age of 69 at
max.
He died at age of 69 at max.
And this short, because this was the sign
for the future people.
Allah gave us the sign according to Mirza
that if he dies, anything before 74, he
will be a false Messiah.
He died at the age of 69.
So he was a false Messiah.
Case is closed.
And next point is you said about Sanaullah
Amritsari Rahimahullah.
Okay.
My brother, are you willing to make Sanaullah
Amritsari as the Hakam or the judge between
us?
Please think about this.
I'm going to quote something very, very severe.
Okay.
And then you will be regretting.
So I'm asking you a direct question.
Do you want to make Sanaullah Amritsari as
a judge for our matter?
Do you agree on him?
I am finished with my response.
And last statement is not for him.
It's for all the people.
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala was going to
give us a sign to know if Mirza
was a truthful person or a liar.
And the sign was his age.
If he leaves anything less than 74, it
will conclusively prove in numbers that he was
a liar and he did die at the
age of 69.
So no people, no Ahmadi has any excuse
to believe in him because he made this
a prophecy, a criterion for us future people.
If he died at age of 69, he
was proven false.
If you still believe in him, please think
about your destiny.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Can I take two minutes now?
No, I think that was the last one
you had.
And we should let someone else know.
If you don't respond after a series of
two minutes, then it means you don't have
an answer.
Simple as that.
The thing is that I responded that nobody
refuted that case.
What case?
I proved from the Promised Messiah's books.
I got the revelation at the age of
40, the 35 years.
It's all been answered.
No, no.
What was the answer?
What was the answer?
Promised Messiah clearly himself mentioned that about 35
years is done.
Can I ask you straight questions?
Can I ask you straight questions?
When was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani born according
to his own writings?
When was he born?
According to his own writing.
I showed his own writing.
You're lying.
Let me share my screen of his own
writing.
Let me share my screen about his own
writing.
One second, one second.
I will produce his own writings where he
said he was born in 1839 or 1840.
His own writings.
I had responded about it.
What do you say about it?
Wait, okay.
Okay, let's go to someone else.
Move on.
There's nobody else.
He was the last guy.
Let the people see, brother.
Let the people see.
If you're responding, people can see it, Inshallah.
All right.
Thank you, Fateh Islam.
So, just one last statement.
Brother Imtiaz said one thing.
If you are making the judge Sinaul Amritsari,
the thing is that I'm giving you a
reference from your own home.
The Sinaul Amritsari is not judged for me.
For me, for us, the Promised Messiah, peace
and blessings of Allah be upon him, is
the Quran.
So, for us, the Hujjat is Quran.
As per the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings
of Allah be upon him, said, Quran is
the Hujjat between you and us.
Allah said, So, Quran clearly
mentions that whoever don't follow, don't do the
judgment according to the revelation of God, is
a Kafir, is a Fasih, is a Muslim.
Okay, do you believe in the Quran?
100%.
Yes or no?
100%.
Okay.
The Quran says, So,
Islam is complete.
With the Prophet of Islam, okay?
This is very, very clear in the Quran,
in Surah Al-Ma'idah, okay?
So, Quran is saying, the message is complete.
We don't need another Prophet.
We don't need another Prophet.
And Mirza came, one second, Mirza came with
all these signs, with all these prophecies, with
all the changings of Islamic principles.
Why is Mirza doing that?
On what authority?
Because the Quran is very clear.
Quran goes against you, that the religion was
completed with the Prophet of Islam.
Okay.
We have to move on, guys.
You can make a video of it.
I don't care.
I mean, we told you last and you
said you accepted us last, now you want
another one as well.
Come on, let's be fair.
I'm being fair with you.
The new point, brother, came.
It'll never end, man.
There's no new point.
Okay.
All right, next time.
Brother Adnan, came on that verses, came on
that topic on Satman-e-Mu'udh.
I'll come next time.
We'll give you an open debate on the
topic of Satman-e-Mu'udh.
Hashim, one statement I want to make before
he goes, please.
Okay.
With all the conditions, we'll do the Shariah.
Allow me to speak for just for one
minute, just for one minute, inshallah.
My brothers, please let me say this very
clearly, because I know Hashim, I know Adnan
was traveling last night from Tanzania to overseas.
So he's super tired.
So please let's have mercy on him.
And inshallah, may Allah give him a good
rest.
I wanted to say this publicly, that because
I know this is amanah.
Now, brother, look at this one.
Whatever was said between you and me on
the topic of his age, it has been
recorded.
Everything is there.
Let the people vote and decide.
Last thing, very quickly, either you or any
Ahmadi who is alive on this planet today,
he wants to tell us what is your
belief on the topic of Nubuwwa.
Okay.
First, tell us your belief.
Then we can discuss.
That's it.
Okay.
Next time, but not today.
Next time.
We'll give you time.
Okay.
I'll come with next time.
We want all Ahmadis today to leave without
any agitation.
And we give you the assurance that there'll
be more streams in the future, where we
can discuss this.
We are not going anywhere.
Don't worry.
Okay.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you very much.
If my any words give you any hard
feeling, I apologize.
No problem.
And likewise.
And likewise.
Take care.
May Allah guide us all with the guidance
and show us the right path and make
us stick on the right path for the
people who are following the right path.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you very much.