Abu Taymiyyah – The birth of the Fitna in the UK Dr Abdulhaq Baker

Abu Taymiyyah
Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The transcript describes a situation where the Abul Hassan landing led to a disrupted conference, but the brothers presented their case. The situation was disrupted due to the Sheikh, and they were sheird at the time. The transcript also describes a recording of a meeting between the speakers and their attendance at a conference, and the speakers discuss a dispute between Brixton and Brixton regarding a situation where they were caught up in a conversation. They also mention a situation where they were caught up in a conversation and ultimately ended it, and the involvement of some of the youth in the situation is discussed.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:12 --> 00:00:13
			Following on from
		
00:00:14 --> 00:00:15
			my brother Abdul Kadir's
		
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18
			very informative and interactive,
		
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22
			discussion with some brothers recently on what really
		
00:00:22 --> 00:00:23
			happened between Luton,
		
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26
			Stubbs, Sheikh Rabir, and Abdul Hassan.
		
00:00:28 --> 00:00:29
			I've been asked
		
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32
			to give a narrative and an account
		
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34
			on what really happened
		
00:00:34 --> 00:00:35
			between
		
00:00:36 --> 00:00:36
			Brixton,
		
00:00:37 --> 00:00:41
			Luton, Spubs, Sheikh Rabia, and Abu Hassan.
		
00:00:41 --> 00:00:42
			So
		
00:00:42 --> 00:00:43
			here it goes,
		
00:00:43 --> 00:00:44
			an account
		
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46
			for my recollection,
		
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50
			and there are documents in support as well
		
00:00:50 --> 00:00:51
			and recordings as well.
		
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56
			Once we'd invited Abul Hasan to
		
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59
			the UK to take part in our return
		
00:00:59 --> 00:01:00
			to ill
		
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03
			conference, which was an annual affair where everybody
		
00:01:03 --> 00:01:06
			attended martial arts and work around the country.
		
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10
			We picked Abu Hassan up from the airport
		
00:01:10 --> 00:01:12
			and brought him to Brixton, and there was
		
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14
			a lot of excitement around the country of
		
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17
			him being here because, as Abdelkader said,
		
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20
			because of the statements from the masheikh, the
		
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22
			ulama, sheik al abani included,
		
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27
			that he was one of the imams of
		
00:01:27 --> 00:01:28
			Ahlus Sunnah at the time.
		
00:01:29 --> 00:01:30
			Such an endorsement
		
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33
			carried weight for obvious reasons,
		
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36
			and we heard about Sheikh Rabia's position with
		
00:01:36 --> 00:01:37
			him
		
00:01:38 --> 00:01:39
			and other Masheikh
		
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42
			from around the world, particularly Saudi Arabia.
		
00:01:43 --> 00:01:45
			So when he came to the office in
		
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47
			in Brixton, there was a lot of excitement.
		
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49
			Trustees, Shura,
		
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52
			Imams were crammed into the office to meet
		
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54
			him for the first time.
		
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56
			And as we were sitting with him,
		
00:01:57 --> 00:01:57
			we
		
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01
			made an agreement among ourselves before sitting, prior
		
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03
			to sitting, that we wouldn't talk about the
		
00:02:03 --> 00:02:04
			fitna
		
00:02:05 --> 00:02:05
			of
		
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07
			what was going on between us,
		
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10
			Cellophie Publications,
		
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13
			and and the like because it was to
		
00:02:13 --> 00:02:14
			be honest, it was getting boring. There'd been
		
00:02:14 --> 00:02:15
			so many with
		
00:02:16 --> 00:02:17
			so many publications
		
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20
			and other affiliates of theirs, Muradah, Jazari,
		
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23
			and and other brothers. I'll mention names in
		
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26
			this recording, Amir Bashir, who was with them,
		
00:02:26 --> 00:02:27
			Mahfoud,
		
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30
			from whom this incident blew up, Amir Bashir
		
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32
			and Mahfoud when they,
		
00:02:32 --> 00:02:33
			became responsible
		
00:02:34 --> 00:02:35
			or placed,
		
00:02:36 --> 00:02:36
			in responsibility
		
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39
			for the center in, Luton.
		
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42
			Abdelkader didn't mention them by name, but I've
		
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44
			got no problem in mentioning names as everybody
		
00:02:44 --> 00:02:45
			knows.
		
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49
			They were affiliated to Salafi Publications, and they
		
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50
			were the ones who went there and got
		
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52
			them involved in the whole Luton affair.
		
00:02:53 --> 00:02:54
			So before jumping,
		
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57
			into the Abul Hasan affair further, I remember
		
00:02:57 --> 00:02:59
			that thing that took place in Luton because
		
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01
			it was a in Brixton,
		
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04
			and we were contacted. The big fitment had
		
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06
			blown off blown up in Luton
		
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07
			regarding,
		
00:03:08 --> 00:03:09
			this dispute
		
00:03:09 --> 00:03:10
			between the brothers.
		
00:03:11 --> 00:03:12
			And some were calling for us to come
		
00:03:12 --> 00:03:13
			up there
		
00:03:13 --> 00:03:14
			to,
		
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17
			show support, which we declined because we didn't
		
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19
			want to add to any fit now.
		
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22
			Anyway, coming back to when Abdul Hassan came
		
00:03:22 --> 00:03:23
			to Brixton,
		
00:03:24 --> 00:03:25
			when we were sitting in the office with
		
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27
			him discussing the program
		
00:03:27 --> 00:03:28
			of the conference,
		
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31
			we received a phone call.
		
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33
			I kinda cannot remember if it was on
		
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34
			the Masjid phone or one of our mobile
		
00:03:34 --> 00:03:35
			numbers,
		
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38
			and it was Amir, Bashir, and Farooq.
		
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40
			Now and on this, I cannot remember who
		
00:03:40 --> 00:03:41
			it was who's speaking, but it was one
		
00:03:41 --> 00:03:42
			of the 2 of them.
		
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45
			And they insisted on speaking to Abu Hassan.
		
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48
			So reluctantly, and it was reluctantly because we
		
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51
			knew or surmise why they would be ringing,
		
00:03:51 --> 00:03:52
			we gave the,
		
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55
			phone to Abu Hassan.
		
00:03:55 --> 00:03:56
			He spoke with them,
		
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00
			and they requested to see him immediately,
		
00:04:01 --> 00:04:02
			and he invited them down.
		
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05
			So he could see that there was tension
		
00:04:05 --> 00:04:06
			from us as they were coming. We didn't
		
00:04:06 --> 00:04:07
			say anything
		
00:04:07 --> 00:04:08
			because,
		
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09
			unlike others,
		
00:04:11 --> 00:04:12
			clouding or shaping,
		
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15
			a student of knowledge or scholar or Sheikh's
		
00:04:16 --> 00:04:16
			view
		
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19
			without the other side being able to give
		
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22
			or represent at the same time was something
		
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24
			we didn't want to do. It had been
		
00:04:24 --> 00:04:25
			done enough times by others, and we just
		
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27
			felt we didn't want to go down the
		
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29
			same road and and lower ourselves in that
		
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31
			way. So they came.
		
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33
			They introduced themselves.
		
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36
			They associated themselves with Salafi Publications, and they
		
00:04:36 --> 00:04:37
			produced a letter.
		
00:04:38 --> 00:04:38
			And,
		
00:04:38 --> 00:04:40
			the letter started
		
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43
			with words of praise. That was the introduction
		
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45
			to the letter because it was read out.
		
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47
			Abu Hassan read it.
		
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49
			Samantha Bravo, I think Ahmed Bashir read it
		
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52
			and translated it. And when the sheikh asked
		
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55
			him and started discussing Ahmed Bashir excused himself
		
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57
			that his Arabic wasn't very strong,
		
00:04:58 --> 00:04:59
			and the sheikh said that was okay. You
		
00:04:59 --> 00:05:00
			should carry on.
		
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03
			And, yeah. So the words of praise
		
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06
			letter was read out from Salafi Publications and
		
00:05:06 --> 00:05:06
			it mentioned,
		
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10
			various masheic who would praise them and then
		
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12
			it got to the essence of the letter,
		
00:05:12 --> 00:05:13
			which in a nutshell
		
00:05:14 --> 00:05:15
			was about a dispute,
		
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18
			that they had with Luton with the brothers
		
00:05:18 --> 00:05:19
			in Luton.
		
00:05:20 --> 00:05:20
			So,
		
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23
			and what they were requesting arbitration.
		
00:05:24 --> 00:05:25
			So Abul Hasan
		
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27
			confirmed his agreement to that
		
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32
			and and mentioned that to the brothers, Farooq
		
00:05:32 --> 00:05:33
			and Amir Bashir.
		
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36
			And, for my recollection, they left shortly after
		
00:05:36 --> 00:05:37
			that.
		
00:05:38 --> 00:05:39
			That's f one.
		
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44
			We mentioned immediately that we deliberately didn't raise
		
00:05:44 --> 00:05:45
			any of the issues,
		
00:05:46 --> 00:05:47
			pertaining to the fit between
		
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48
			the Salafis
		
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51
			because we wanted to focus on benefiting from
		
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54
			Abu Hassan and focusing on ILM.
		
00:05:55 --> 00:05:56
			But he insisted
		
00:05:57 --> 00:05:58
			that as a guest,
		
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01
			he was prepared and wanted to arbitrate
		
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03
			and bring to Awon
		
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05
			cooperation between the Salafi communities.
		
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07
			So he asked to speak to Luton.
		
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11
			And from what I recollect, he's, a phone
		
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13
			call was made to Abdelkader and the brothers
		
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15
			in Luton, and he invited them down to
		
00:06:15 --> 00:06:16
			come,
		
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19
			and speak with him. And they duly came,
		
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21
			not all in the same day. This was
		
00:06:21 --> 00:06:23
			the evening by this time this all taken
		
00:06:23 --> 00:06:25
			place on the evening of, Abu Hassan landing.
		
00:06:26 --> 00:06:27
			So Luton came
		
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31
			and presented their case, and then
		
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34
			Matheb Basalofia and their representatives came and presented
		
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35
			their case.
		
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38
			And what happened is that, aspects of the
		
00:06:38 --> 00:06:38
			conference
		
00:06:39 --> 00:06:39
			were disrupted
		
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43
			due to the Sheikh. Sorry. Abul Hassan. He
		
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45
			was a sheikh at the time, no longer
		
00:06:45 --> 00:06:46
			now. As we know, there's this,
		
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49
			this this man haj that when someone has
		
00:06:49 --> 00:06:50
			been disparaged,
		
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54
			they no longer have the appellation of sheikh,
		
00:06:54 --> 00:06:55
			to them.
		
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57
			Not quite sure where that comes from.
		
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59
			I'm sure there's some evidence for it. But
		
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01
			anyway, Abul Hasan,
		
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03
			as he's commonly referred to, I'll stick with
		
00:07:03 --> 00:07:04
			that,
		
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07
			had arbitration and met the group separately.
		
00:07:08 --> 00:07:08
			Now
		
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11
			we said to him, when he was sitting
		
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12
			with Luton
		
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15
			and arranging to sit with Sanofi Publications,
		
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17
			that we wanted to have our own
		
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21
			sitting then in that case, so that we
		
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23
			could raise any grievances that we had against
		
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25
			either parties or one of the parties or
		
00:07:25 --> 00:07:26
			whatever.
		
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27
			But he declined
		
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30
			and said as, we were the hosts,
		
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33
			he he would ask us to honor him
		
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35
			in the sense that he saw
		
00:07:35 --> 00:07:38
			after listening to Luton that our grievances
		
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41
			and Luton's grievances were the same and that
		
00:07:41 --> 00:07:42
			we were closer
		
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45
			connected as brothers and communities so that we
		
00:07:45 --> 00:07:49
			would form one entire group and Salafi publication
		
00:07:49 --> 00:07:50
			will form the other group.
		
00:07:51 --> 00:07:51
			And we agreed because
		
00:07:52 --> 00:07:53
			we were
		
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55
			very close and we continue to be very
		
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57
			close with our brothers in Luton, Marcelo, and
		
00:07:57 --> 00:07:58
			Turakula.
		
00:08:00 --> 00:08:01
			Those arbitration,
		
00:08:01 --> 00:08:02
			sit ins took place.
		
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06
			Individuals bought book boxes down
		
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10
			and produced their evidence and such like, and
		
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12
			Salima Hilali was involved in these sittings.
		
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16
			Doctor Jabali was involved in these sittings.
		
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19
			This is the first part of the recording,
		
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22
			regarding this stage.
		
00:08:24 --> 00:08:25
			After they'd listened
		
00:08:27 --> 00:08:28
			to everyone,
		
00:08:30 --> 00:08:31
			Abu Hassan arranged
		
00:08:32 --> 00:08:32
			for a meeting
		
00:08:33 --> 00:08:34
			in what
		
00:08:35 --> 00:08:35
			remains
		
00:08:36 --> 00:08:37
			an area,
		
00:08:37 --> 00:08:41
			that's allocated in Masjidim, Tamir, Brixton to the
		
00:08:41 --> 00:08:41
			sisters.
		
00:08:42 --> 00:08:43
			And he wanted
		
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46
			the opposing side's,
		
00:08:47 --> 00:08:49
			affiliates and those who supporting them to come
		
00:08:49 --> 00:08:50
			into that room.
		
00:08:51 --> 00:08:52
			And so it was quite packed.
		
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54
			There were a number of us sitting in
		
00:08:54 --> 00:08:55
			that room
		
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57
			at the because he was going to give
		
00:08:57 --> 00:08:58
			his conclusion,
		
00:08:59 --> 00:09:00
			of his observations,
		
00:09:01 --> 00:09:01
			summary,
		
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03
			and direction.
		
00:09:05 --> 00:09:06
			We all gathered,
		
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09
			with the exception of Abu Khadija, who had
		
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11
			sent a letter or sent a message. I
		
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13
			didn't see the letter, but Abu Hassan read
		
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16
			it out that Abu Khadija was traveling to
		
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18
			Kuwait at the time and had asked to
		
00:09:18 --> 00:09:19
			be excused and that he would abide by
		
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22
			whatever decision Abul Hasan had made.
		
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25
			But Abul Hakim was there, Abu Sufyan was
		
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27
			there, Muradah Jazari
		
00:09:28 --> 00:09:29
			was there, Abdul,
		
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33
			Kadi Kadi was there, and us and from
		
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36
			Brixton were there as well. And the recording
		
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40
			of that sitting is available. I have a
		
00:09:40 --> 00:09:40
			copy of it,
		
00:09:41 --> 00:09:42
			and I will make it available.
		
00:09:43 --> 00:09:44
			And it's a bit grainy, but you can
		
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47
			hear Abu Hassan speaking, and you can hear,
		
00:09:48 --> 00:09:49
			one of the brothers who used to be
		
00:09:49 --> 00:09:52
			with us, a graduate from Medina, brother Faraz
		
00:09:52 --> 00:09:53
			from Tooting,
		
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54
			translating.
		
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58
			So everything was read out, the points that
		
00:09:58 --> 00:09:59
			were read out, and
		
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03
			the brothers were were asked to ask specific
		
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06
			brothers, including myself, to sign to the agreement
		
00:10:06 --> 00:10:07
			at the end.
		
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10
			Now rewinding a little bit,
		
00:10:10 --> 00:10:11
			when that
		
00:10:12 --> 00:10:13
			document was prepared,
		
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16
			Abul Hassan and Celine al Hilali
		
00:10:17 --> 00:10:21
			rang Sheikh Rabia from the office of Brixton.
		
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24
			And as they were speaking to Sheikh Rabia,
		
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27
			they wanted to fax him what they had
		
00:10:27 --> 00:10:28
			written.
		
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31
			They faxed it to him for him to
		
00:10:31 --> 00:10:31
			read.
		
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35
			And the translation that I got, because we
		
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36
			were in the office while this was going
		
00:10:36 --> 00:10:36
			on,
		
00:10:37 --> 00:10:38
			was that
		
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39
			Sheikh Rabir
		
00:10:40 --> 00:10:40
			found these,
		
00:10:41 --> 00:10:41
			points
		
00:10:42 --> 00:10:42
			acceptable.
		
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46
			He said he would write and and nothing
		
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48
			Abu Hassan requested. Can he confirm his acceptance
		
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51
			of them because it will put the brothers
		
00:10:51 --> 00:10:52
			at ease, and and they will find it
		
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54
			more accepting generally.
		
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57
			So Sheikh Rabir confirmed he would do this,
		
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59
			and he asked for the fax number of
		
00:10:59 --> 00:11:00
			Brixton.
		
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02
			But due to a technical glitch, and we
		
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04
			had a problem with our phone at the
		
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07
			time, we could only send faxes but not
		
00:11:07 --> 00:11:07
			receive.
		
00:11:08 --> 00:11:09
			So I suggested
		
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12
			to give Sheikh Rabir an alternative
		
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14
			number of 1 of the brothers who ran
		
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17
			his family business on Brixton High Road, which
		
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19
			is about 2 minutes walk away from the
		
00:11:19 --> 00:11:19
			Masjid.
		
00:11:20 --> 00:11:21
			And the name of the shop at the
		
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23
			time was called Force Home Care.
		
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26
			So I contacted the brother, asked for his
		
00:11:26 --> 00:11:27
			fax number.
		
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29
			He gave me the fax number
		
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31
			and I went across there quickly and waited
		
00:11:32 --> 00:11:33
			myself
		
00:11:33 --> 00:11:36
			for Sheikh Rabi's fax to come through.
		
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38
			And the facts came through.
		
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41
			And I went straight back with the facts
		
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43
			to the office,
		
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46
			to give to Abul Hassan and and Salima
		
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47
			Al Hilali,
		
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50
			who then continued their conversation with Sheikh Rabia
		
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53
			to say that they'd received the facts.
		
00:11:54 --> 00:11:55
			Copies of the fax
		
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57
			have since been scanned,
		
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00
			with the the the written Arabic
		
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04
			agreement that, Abdul Hassan had put together
		
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08
			and was signed with the signatures as well.
		
00:12:08 --> 00:12:09
			That is still with,
		
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13
			us even though it's faded by now, but
		
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15
			it was copied and scanned. And that is
		
00:12:15 --> 00:12:16
			also available,
		
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19
			with Sheikh Rabi, Hafizullah's
		
00:12:20 --> 00:12:21
			signature,
		
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23
			and his written endorsement.
		
00:12:24 --> 00:12:25
			That's still available.
		
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30
			What coming back to the the final sitting
		
00:12:30 --> 00:12:31
			with Abu Hassan,
		
00:12:32 --> 00:12:33
			when he'd have got
		
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34
			representatives
		
00:12:34 --> 00:12:35
			of the two sides
		
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38
			to sign this document, my signature is on
		
00:12:38 --> 00:12:42
			there, and we signed under Sheikh Rabi's signature
		
00:12:42 --> 00:12:43
			because when we saw that he had written
		
00:12:43 --> 00:12:46
			and endorsed it, that made us all feel
		
00:12:46 --> 00:12:49
			more secure that, yes, Sheikh Rabi has endorsed
		
00:12:49 --> 00:12:50
			this, and we all signed.
		
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53
			And then Abu Hassan asked us because the
		
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55
			conference was at its conclusive stages
		
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58
			to come out to the main area, main
		
00:12:58 --> 00:12:59
			of the masjid.
		
00:13:00 --> 00:13:01
			He gave a speech
		
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04
			talking about how Islam had been made and
		
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06
			words to that effect. And he asked
		
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10
			members of the respective parties to come and
		
00:13:10 --> 00:13:11
			speak conclusively.
		
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14
			I was asked to speak. Abu Hajj Abdul
		
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17
			Rahman was asked to speak. Abu Hakim was
		
00:13:17 --> 00:13:18
			asked to speak.
		
00:13:19 --> 00:13:20
			Muradah Jazari was asked to speak.
		
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23
			Abdelkader was asked to speak. And if I
		
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26
			recall rightly, everyone spoke, and that tape is
		
00:13:26 --> 00:13:26
			still available.
		
00:13:27 --> 00:13:28
			Some of the brothers who spoke, and I
		
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30
			won't mention at this point because you can't
		
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33
			see what's in people's hearts, spoke very vaguely,
		
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36
			very vaguely. But what was clear from their
		
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39
			very vague general speech was that they were
		
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41
			not happy with the outcome. That was clear
		
00:13:41 --> 00:13:41
			to us.
		
00:13:42 --> 00:13:43
			Anyway,
		
00:13:44 --> 00:13:45
			that's how it concluded,
		
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49
			and we left it at that. The
		
00:13:50 --> 00:13:50
			Arabic,
		
00:13:51 --> 00:13:51
			agreement
		
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55
			and Sheikh Rabir's speech was duly translated by
		
00:13:55 --> 00:13:55
			Fraas.
		
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58
			And then doctor Jabali, when he got back
		
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00
			to the States, he translated it
		
00:14:00 --> 00:14:01
			and provided
		
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04
			a a tighter translation, but both translations were
		
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06
			very close to each other.
		
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09
			And from there,
		
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11
			there was expectation
		
00:14:12 --> 00:14:12
			to
		
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14
			move forward.
		
00:14:15 --> 00:14:15
			Expectations
		
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17
			by a number of individuals, but there were
		
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19
			some of us who felt things weren't going
		
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22
			to move forward because we'd seen many times
		
00:14:22 --> 00:14:22
			before
		
00:14:23 --> 00:14:25
			that when, meetings for ISLA had come about,
		
00:14:26 --> 00:14:26
			particular
		
00:14:27 --> 00:14:28
			sections or particular
		
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29
			individuals
		
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31
			continually broke those agreements.
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:34
			So that's what happened
		
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38
			with that. When our conference had finished,
		
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41
			Abil Hassan had been invited to travel up
		
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44
			to North England, and we took him. And,
		
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48
			the brothers from Celtic Publications had invited him,
		
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50
			and he was supposed to go, but he
		
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53
			declined because of time constraints. That was all.
		
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55
			As we were going up north, he couldn't
		
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56
			make it, and he asked to be excused.
		
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58
			And he went straight up, I think, to
		
00:14:58 --> 00:14:58
			Manchester.
		
00:14:59 --> 00:15:00
			Brothers took him up to Manchester.
		
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06
			That was the last time Abu Hassan visited
		
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08
			1st and last time Abu Hassan visited,
		
00:15:08 --> 00:15:09
			the UK,
		
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11
			from what I recall,
		
00:15:13 --> 00:15:14
			the rest is history.
		
00:15:15 --> 00:15:16
			But for the record,
		
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18
			after we had heard
		
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21
			what had been going on, Mirada Jazayer turned
		
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23
			up at Jeddah Airport with to see Sheikh
		
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25
			Rabih with a box of books and everything,
		
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28
			and he was supposedly arrested until an appeal
		
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30
			was made to Sheikh Rabir. And he confirmed
		
00:15:30 --> 00:15:31
			he was coming down to see him as
		
00:15:31 --> 00:15:32
			a student,
		
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35
			alleged stew student and so so forth. And
		
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38
			we heard that there was an attempt to,
		
00:15:40 --> 00:15:40
			undermine
		
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44
			and discredit the agreement of Abu Hassan
		
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46
			after some of them had signed it.
		
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49
			Basically,
		
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52
			things started falling apart and going from bad
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:52
			to worse.
		
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55
			Now when we heard that Sheikh Rabir
		
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58
			had basically discredited it and said that his
		
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01
			signature and his writing was no longer valid,
		
00:16:01 --> 00:16:02
			some went so far as to say that
		
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04
			he said he never wrote anything, and they
		
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07
			tried to deny that, which was that that
		
00:16:07 --> 00:16:07
			was impossible.
		
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10
			And I don't think the sheikhs said that.
		
00:16:10 --> 00:16:11
			Brothers were saying that from themselves.
		
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15
			What basically happened is that we then said,
		
00:16:15 --> 00:16:17
			right. If this is what's happening
		
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19
			and this discrediting is taking place,
		
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23
			The the agreement doesn't hold any water. We
		
00:16:23 --> 00:16:24
			are away from it.
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27
			So much so that weeks after
		
00:16:28 --> 00:16:28
			this happened,
		
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31
			the kukba, which was given by our brother,
		
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34
			Abu Mariam Samir, okay, Coombsun,
		
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36
			and he won't like me for putting his
		
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37
			name out there like that because he's a
		
00:16:37 --> 00:16:38
			very shy individual,
		
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40
			mentioned on the mimbar
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:43
			in in as a side point, but a
		
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45
			very clear side point. I heard it myself
		
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48
			that this was no longer being,
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51
			abided by adhered to by Brixton,
		
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55
			because of the dispute arising around it.
		
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57
			And from that point in time,
		
00:16:57 --> 00:16:58
			no cassettes,
		
00:16:59 --> 00:17:00
			nothing from Abu Hassan
		
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03
			was seen or heard in
		
00:17:03 --> 00:17:04
			the masjid.
		
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09
			So those brothers who keep running around
		
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12
			like youngsters who were maybe 5 years old,
		
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15
			when this Abu Hassan affair took place,
		
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17
			taught with such certainty. And as Abu Dhabi
		
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20
			said, they haven't verified the truth. And as
		
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22
			the Quran says in Surah Al Hujurat, they
		
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25
			haven't verified the truth because they hold particular
		
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28
			entities to be thick cut based on their
		
00:17:28 --> 00:17:29
			own,
		
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31
			understandings, which is really unfortunate. It's just it's
		
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33
			just it's a joke. It's not even worth
		
00:17:33 --> 00:17:33
			going into.
		
00:17:34 --> 00:17:35
			So, anyway,
		
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37
			there was one other occasion where when the
		
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39
			fitna blew up between Abu Hassan and Sheikh
		
00:17:39 --> 00:17:40
			Rabi
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:41
			in
		
00:17:42 --> 00:17:43
			Saudi Arabia.
		
00:17:44 --> 00:17:45
			I remember Sheikh,
		
00:17:46 --> 00:17:47
			Rabbi,
		
00:17:47 --> 00:17:48
			speaking clearly,
		
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51
			about the dispute about Abul Hassan
		
00:17:52 --> 00:17:53
			in that instance.
		
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56
			A phone call was made to Abu Hassan
		
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57
			when I was back in Brixton. I can't
		
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58
			remember the brother who made it, but some
		
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00
			of us were sitting in the room. And
		
00:18:00 --> 00:18:01
			he asked
		
00:18:02 --> 00:18:03
			about he asked me. He said, I heard
		
00:18:03 --> 00:18:04
			you were in Modena.
		
00:18:06 --> 00:18:07
			Why didn't you come and see me?
		
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10
			And I said, I didn't know that I
		
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11
			didn't know where you were, Sheikh. That was
		
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14
			it. And he asked, he goes, what are
		
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16
			we upon? This is what Abu Hassan asked.
		
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18
			He asked, what are we upon? And we
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:20
			said, we are as you found we are
		
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22
			upon the same thing that you found us
		
00:18:22 --> 00:18:23
			upon
		
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25
			with regards to our the Manhaj sunnah. This
		
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27
			is what we were talking about in that
		
00:18:27 --> 00:18:27
			instance there.
		
00:18:28 --> 00:18:29
			And that was the statement.
		
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31
			But one of the Somali brothers who was
		
00:18:31 --> 00:18:32
			with us who
		
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35
			then decided he would have not then, but
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:37
			he be he became influenced by the other
		
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39
			way as we I'd call it of of
		
00:18:39 --> 00:18:40
			Maktaba Salafiya.
		
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43
			He tried to take some mileage out of
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:43
			that and,
		
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46
			out of that telephone conversation, and yet he
		
00:18:46 --> 00:18:47
			was the translator or he was in the
		
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49
			room at the time. I can't remember which
		
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51
			one he he was. But that's all that
		
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53
			was said. And it was very clear because
		
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56
			Abu Hassan said, oh, put out my stuff
		
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58
			against Sheikh Rabir and and and defend my
		
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01
			arguments and everything like that. And we went
		
00:19:01 --> 00:19:02
			quiet and just ended the conversation.
		
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05
			And he wanted Abu Hassan wanted affirmation from
		
00:19:05 --> 00:19:06
			us that we were going to do that,
		
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08
			and he did not get it. We ended
		
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09
			the conversation.
		
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12
			And that was the the last time,
		
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16
			Brixton had any sort of,
		
00:19:17 --> 00:19:18
			connection
		
00:19:18 --> 00:19:19
			or communication,
		
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22
			should I say, with Abu Hassan. And, Arlen,
		
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24
			this is coming up to 20 minutes long.
		
00:19:24 --> 00:19:25
			And as Ablucard
		
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27
			said, the the brothers who from
		
00:19:27 --> 00:19:28
			from
		
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30
			and and their cohorts
		
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33
			are so much into this, and this is
		
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34
			what their life is centered around.
		
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37
			And really, I'm not gonna put anything else
		
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38
			out after this because it's not something I've
		
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41
			looked at for a long long time because
		
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43
			it's wasted a lot of people's time. And
		
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45
			as I said, some some some of the
		
00:19:45 --> 00:19:46
			youth who were 5 at the time or
		
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48
			even 4 or were they even born
		
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50
			or 19 now,
		
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52
			I've got I've got so caught up as
		
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53
			though this is the be all and end
		
00:19:53 --> 00:19:54
			all.