Abu Taymiyyah – Online Wars Working together & Bad Blood
AI: Summary ©
The speakers emphasize the importance of having structured and productive discussions in a civilized and productive manner to avoid harmful behavior. They stress the importance of maturity at times when it is difficult to manage and the need for a level of maturity. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by young Muslims and the importance of finding the truth and not criticizing the situation. The speaker advises not to be ridiculous and to focus on finding the truth and not giving advice back.
AI: Summary ©
As a young Muslim trying to navigate the
ummah, trying to navigate my space in the
Muslim world, I might be in UK, might
be in Australia, I see many different Muslims,
different methodologies, different ways of practicing the deen.
How do I navigate this and how do
we foster a sense of unity amongst the
Muslim community so that it becomes like a
wholesome community to be in and not one
that's divisive and not one which, you know,
pushes me away as opposed to bringing me
towards Islam?
Yeah, I think it's important to realize that
differences have been around for over 1200 years.
And Allah tells us, وَلَا يَزَالُونَ مُخْتَدِفِينَ إِلَّا
مَنْ رَحِمَ رَبُّكَ Yes.
Right, they will continue to differ with one
another and this is bound to happen, right?
And of course unity at the same time
is, you know, من مقاصد الشريعة من أعظم
from the greatest of objectives.
And sometimes we forget this.
من القواعد العظيمة التي من جماع الدين Right?
It's from the things that comprise the religion,
the greatest of principles.
إصلاح ذات البين Fixing that which is between
the people.
واجتماع الكلمة To come together, you know, إلى
آخري So this is an important objective and
it's mentioned time and time again.
من الذين فرقوا دينهم وكانوا شيعد They're defamed
in the Qur'an, those who split up
from one another.
وَاحْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًۭا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا Hold fast
onto the rope of Allah by which Allah
has sent down and what the Messenger of
Allah came with.
And do not, you know, disunite amongst one
another.
So these differences have been around and I
don't think, you know, these differences will come
to an end.
It will continue up until قيام الساعة as
we've already seen happening.
Right?
And even if you look at the state
today, you know, when you look back, it
seems it's a lot more now.
And it's becoming even more and more toxic.
When you think about it, Habibi, look, the
time and age that we live in, I
remember Shaykh al-Albani was mentioning something similar
to this.
We are at war with the enemies of
Islam.
They are targeting us from every single direction.
He at the time was speaking about the
secularists who are targeting the Muslims and whatever
have you.
Right?
So we are being bombarded from every single
angle.
Right?
I am for having these theological discussions and
discourses, but not the way that it's happening
right now on X and likewise on TikTok.
And this is across the spectrum.
It gets very volatile.
It gets very toxic.
They're screaming at one another, insulting each other
as Shaykhs.
I don't believe this is the way forward.
I honestly suggest, and this is advice that
I'm giving to people of authority and students
of knowledge.
You want to have these discussions, right?
Go into a room and fight each other.
If you have to, figuratively speaking, have these
discussions.
I always, Wallahi, I sit with people from
different leanings and persuasions, right?
I'm of the position of Shaykh al-Husayn
ibn Taymiyyah where this is, you know, a
contingent on weighing between the pros and the
cons.
There are people that are sincere, that don't
have the same belief as me.
And we have these discussions in a civilized,
productive manner.
Right?
It's important to have these conversations.
And, you know, I remember coming across something
very powerful when he was talking about the
disagreements between the Hanabilah and the Ashara, right?
And he would say, I would be from
those who would really go out his way
to remove these differences.
Yeah, and he has a belief system, which
he sees to be correct.
And he's like, you know, having these conversations
in a pragmatic way.
And after that, Habibi, you can't control people's
hearts.
Everyone goes their way, right?
To have these discussions in a controlled environment,
behind closed doors, especially now when there are
so many non-Muslims looking at the Muslims
and that which is taking place online.
People are looking at becoming Muslims and Wallahi,
this could put them off.
You know how many times I've seen messages,
and this is a huge Mufsidah that we
have to take into consideration.
The issue of pros and cons, Masalih and
Mufasid.
They say, oh, like I've left Christianity because
of all of the disputes and the disagreements
amongst them.
And then I see Muslims behaving the way
they are, right?
Which may actually serve as a deterrent from
them entering into Islam, you know?
And I honestly believe this is something we
have to take into consideration, especially right now
with what's happening.
It's become so much more intensified.
Lines have been drawn, you know, sides have
been chosen, and things are only getting worse.
When the chicken comes home to roost, they're
not going to distinguish between, oh, this guy's
from this group, this guy's from that group.
They look at all of you as Muslims.
And they'll deal with you exactly the same.
And it's getting more and more problematic, more
and more problematic.
So I honestly believe despite all of these
differences in theology, there has to be a
level of maturity at times when it comes
to common issues that we have to come
together on in the face of the oppressors,
the suppressors, the enemies who are causing the
Muslims problems.
You have to at times come together to
deal with it.
If you don't want to work with each
other on anything other than that, fine.
But these common issues, there has to be
a level of coming together and dealing with
it collectively.
And given that, I guess it's becoming very
public, the nature of the infighting and the
criticisms, even, you know, how would you yourself,
you know, I'm sure you've experienced some criticism
in the past for some of your views
or even your opinions.
How have you been able to navigate that
and manage that?
I continue to teach that which, inshallah, you
know, I believe to be the truth.
What else can I do?
I continue teaching what Allah says and what
the Messenger of Allah came to us with,
you know, what the righteous predecessors would teach
us as much as I can.
Like, you know, Kamal, if I buckle to
every form of pressure that comes my way,
I'll never be able to get anything done.
People are always going to criticize, right?
Imam Malik, may Allah have mercy on him,
has a powerful statement.
He would say, Rectify that which is between
you and Allah and Allah will rectify that
which is between you and the people.
Yes.
As Aisha, may Allah have mercy on her,
mentioned, pleasing everyone is an objective you can't
meet.
I am not perfect.
Yes.
Right?
I'm open to dialogue.
I'm open to discourse.
Across the spectrum, sometimes, subhanAllah, it's ajeeb.
But at the end of the day, you
know what you see surfacing online?
It's an echo chamber.
On the ground, it's so much more different.
Those who are engaging in these volatile, you
know, toxic discussions.
Like I said, I'm very for the discussions.
Go do it behind closed doors and continue
preaching what you see to be correct, right?
But this thing that we see on X,
on Twitter, on TikTok, honestly, I'm really not
for it at all.
And this is why I've refused to engage
in discussions where I've been invited by individuals
who tend to behave in this way because
I believe there's no masalah that's going to
come out of it.
Even coming to Australia, going to South Africa
because I was in South Africa beforehand.
There were people that were reaching out, knowing
how they behave online.
I just excuse myself.
But others, I'll have a sit down.
Like I'm always for to being corrected, right?
I don't believe that I'm infallible and that
everything that I know is 110% correct.
Yes.
There might be things that we've looked at
in a certain way, certain things that I
could have perhaps said better.
Like recently, there's an issue that I put
the clarification out on.
And we live and we learn, right?
We live and we learn.
And we are human beings that make mistakes.
And as a brother, you reach out to
him, al-mu'minu mir'atu al-mu'min, he's
the mirror of his believer, tries to perhaps
convince him that perhaps that which he said
wasn't really correct.
Yes.
I don't think any of us are worse
than Firaun.
Yes.
Right?
I don't think any of us are.
Firaun who claimed, ana rabbukumul a'la, I'm
your Lord, the most high.
ma alimtu lakum min ilahin ghayri I haven't
come of a Lord more greater than myself.
This is what he's sending the people.
He claimed this subhanAllah.
Even then Allah instructed Musa alayhis salam and
also Harun to go to Firaun and to
speak to him.
faqula lahu qawlan laynan la'allahu yatadhakaru yakhsha
Speak to him in words of gentleness.
Gentleness.
Recently, a brother messaged me on Twitter and
he was very, very abusive and he insulted
me.
And I said to him, do you really
think you're going to convince me like this?
Yes.
Right?
He goes, oh, but you said X, Y,
and Z.
Okay.
We speak to non-Muslims all the time
who claim about Allah that he has a
son.
Is there anything greater than that?
Should we speak to them in this kind
of manner?
So how are you expecting to convince me,
right?
With this kind of attitude, throwing all this
abuse at me.
I said to him, am I worse than
Firaun?
Are you better than Musa?
And Harun alayhi salatu wa salam.
And Wallahi, credit to him.
He said, jazakAllah khair.
You're right.
And I said to him, here you go,
katha wa katha wa katha.
And he goes, okay, I apologize.
I think the etiquette of dealing with the
Muslim community, dealing with each other, making sure
that our community is a welcoming community for
the Muslims, because we've literally just mentioned only
a fraction of the challenges and hardships and
trials that the young generation are going through
right now.
The least we can do is make the
Muslim ummah, within our ability, a place which
is welcoming, a place which is safe, so
that they can come in, because they're being
called away.
We need to call them back.
I honestly believe the online space is a
bubble.
Like on the ground, Habibi subhanAllah, the brothers
and sisters that attended our program, I think
it would have come up to like 1500
people.
They're in a completely different world compared to
those who are engaging in these very hostile
discussions.
In a manner that is really, I don't
believe is pleasing to Allah at all, the
way they're carrying out.
We've seen the scholars of the past, how
they would engage with one another, the discussions
they would have amongst one another, even if
they disagreed, right?
And even if they wrote books on one
another, they continued.
But then when there was times when they
had to come together against the Mongols and
so on and so forth, they were a
united front.
And this is what exactly right now, what's
happening right now, wallahi our heart bleeds.
Are we going to exert all of our
efforts with dealing with the issues on the
ground at this moment in time, especially when
we have a lot of these modern day
ideologies that are ripping the aqeedah of our
children, of our youngsters.
We're facing some very serious challenges.
And I'm not saying that these discussions are
not important.
So no one twists my words.
Have these discussions, but have it in a
controlled manner.
That is a lot more civilized.
I don't think I've ever discussed this with
you, right?
Those who would come and laugh in my
face, act like they're friends, and then behind
my back, they're literally bickering, slandering, right?
And ripping you to shreds.
Like, why would you do that?
I've seen that.
Right?
I personally saw that.
Wallahi, me and him haven't even discussed.
I don't know how the question you're going
to ask me, right?
Wallahi, I didn't even know that you saw
this or you felt this, but this is
what I've seen.
And I really struggled with this.
Like you're laughing in my face or you're
going to institutions and organizations, telling them don't
bring Abu Taim and whatever have you, but
then whenever you run into me, you talk
to me as if we're best friends, right?
And I really struggled with that.
Wallahi, it really hurt me because some of
those brothers were brothers that I really liked
and respected, and then I'm hearing X, Y,
and Z, and I'm just brushing it off.
And then he just keeps repeating, repeating, you
know?
Let's have a conversation.
We're students of knowledge, right?
Let's open up the books, right?
Let's open up the books.
We're students of knowledge.
I love discussions, right?
And anyways, you know, that was that.
But if you're patient, right?
And then later on, quite a few of
them apologized.
I'm talking about even those who used to
show me open enmity when certain mashayikh of
theirs started clashing with one another.
All of a sudden, I'm walking through the
university campus and everyone's giving me salams again.
And I'm thinking to myself, Abu Taim, why
have you changed?
When in reality, I didn't.
It's in fact they changed and they realized
their mistake and they were humble enough to
admit so.
And then of course, you have those online
and UK and whatever have you, mainly online.
Allah, brother, I make dua for these people.
Sometimes I think to myself, and I don't
mean this in a bad way, are they
mentally challenged with the way they behave, online
especially?
I mean, it really doesn't add up.
So I make dua for these individuals that
Allah Azza wa Jal betters their mental state
and perhaps gives them insight and betters their
understanding of the religion.
Like I honestly, when people attack me, and
when they say negative things about myself, I
honestly try to assess it.
I try to be as self-critical as
I can, as much as I can, as
much as possible.
Because we can't just dismiss every criticism that
comes our way as hasad or as personal,
he's got an issue with him, that's why
he's doing that.
We should try to assess it and perhaps
may you benefit from our enemies.
We all want to be from those who
the Messenger of Allah talked about, right?
وَمَا تَوَاضَىٰ أَحَدٌ إِلَّهِ لَا رَفَعَهُ Never does
an individual humble himself except that Allah will
raise him.
And look what Ibn Al-Qayyim says, right?
Ibn Al-Qayyim says, لَا تَصْرُحُ لَكَ دَرَجَةٌ
تَوَاضُىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَقْبَلَ الْحَقَّ مِمَّنْ تُحِبُّ وَمَنْ تَبْغُضُ
Right?
You will not be able to become a
humble individual until you make it a habit
to accept from those that you love and
those that you hate.
Right?
So when the opponents, the detractors, the haters,
you want to call them that, whenever they
say something, I try to look at it.
Does he have a point?
But sometimes, Wallahi, I really struggle to see
through it.
A lot of time, it's unverified information, clear
-cut lies, bad assumptions.
A lot of the time, it's ijtihadi-related
issues.
Us attempting now to find the right answer,
it's a gray area, it's not black and
white, we're trying to get the right answer,
best course of action, and then they're attacking
you for it.
حبيبي وطلاب العلم I'll say this again, let's
sit down.
Wallahi, I don't believe I'm scared of anyone.
And the reason why I say this is
not because I'm trying to be arrogant or
anything like that.
Someone else may have the truth.
Someone else may see something that I'm not
seeing.
And I'm happy to see that, right?
Just convince me.
Don't be running around saying, oh, I've advised
the Butaimia, he didn't accept the advice, let's
boycott him.
Sometimes there is a back and forth, like
how many discussions have me and you had?
Do we see eye to eye to everything?
Of course not.
But Wallahi, I love you.
I love you too, man.
I love you more than you love me.
But the point is, we had our back
and forths.
You may have given advice and I've given
advice back.
But they were back and forth, the discussions
between students of knowledge.
What sometimes they do is, they'll go and
they'll tell people, oh, he's been advised, khalas.
Habib, that's not sincerity.
Let's have a discussion.
Let's open up the books.
You know, let's go back and forth.
I love that.
I honestly love that.
Every talib ilm loves that.
And you shouldn't be afraid.
Why?
Right?
Because we're all trying to find the truth.
I feel like something that's missing in this
conversation, whenever this is mentioned, the benefits and
harms that a person has to make a
judgment call on, is going to be one
assessment on one way, and you might have
a different assessment.
But I am not obliged to follow your
assessment of masaleh mafasid, khaffat dararein, the lesser
of two evils.
And I think this is where...
Habib, even fatwa.
Fatwa is not binding.
Let alone an advice that you gave.
Sometimes you might come up to me and
give me a piece of advice and I
say to you, jazakallah khair.
Right?
Or I might decide to even have my
two pens in the situation, right?
But that doesn't necessarily mean I have to.
Oh, two cents.
Oh, you guys have dollars in it, right?
Bucks, right?
So, I don't have to take that.
Or I might see that this advice is
completely out of place.
But jazakallah khair.
I accept it from you, but don't expect
me to take it on.
And you shouldn't give advice expecting for it
to be acted upon.
And this is muhimmun jidden jidden aydan.
That questions your sincerity.
But wallahi, you know, this issue of hasad,
as Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, Shaykh Ibn Uthaymiyyah, I've
come across, even Ibn Al-Arabi, rahimahallahu ta
'ala, Al-Maliki, like for example, Imam Ahmed,
rahimahallahu ta'ala, one time said to his
tulab, right?
Qala li tulabihi, i'lamu rahimakum Allah.
Have knowledge.
May Allah have mercy upon you that anna
Allah azawajal If
Allah blesses someone with knowledge, that maybe his
contemporaries and his classmates are deprived from, right?
Allah chose not to give it to them.
They begin to envy him, right?
And then they begin to accuse him of
things that he's absolutely free from.
If they don't find anything that they can
accuse him of, they'll look for things to
accuse him of.
Like sometimes in man, it's just, I struggle
to see through this, honestly.
It's like, Akhi, call the Prophet.
Have this engagement with him.
Sometimes you can get- Before calling them
out on X, ya'ani, have a private
reach out, at least the minimum call out.
Even if they call me out, honestly, I
don't have a problem, but you're calling out
something that you understood in that particular manner.
Yeah, but ya'ani, even inkar al-munkar,
if they understand that, it has to be
something that he's completely agreed upon.
Completely agreed upon.
And if there's, ya'ani, there's ikhtilaf on
the issue, then khalas, ya'ani, it's not
something that can be considered as munkar by
default, right?
It reminds me of what the poet mentioned.
The poet says, You see people criticizing, condemning
certain things, right?
But in reality, Habibi, it's actually true what
the guy is saying, but you've misunderstood it.
You've completely misunderstood it, right?
According to your shallow, narrow-minded understanding of
that.
But I wish sometimes it could actually be
ilmi, but it's based on your understanding that
you're criticizing.
By Allah, a lot of the time it's
just personal, man.
A lot of the time it's personal.
Sometimes what happens is, let's just say, me
and you had a heated argument, which is
bound to happen.
The scholars of the past had heated arguments.
Sahaba.
Sahaba, sahih?
Yeah.
But then, Love after that.
You start, ya'ani, going off on the
guy and turning, masking it as if it's
like a deen-related issue.
Allahumma sallim, sallim.
Sorry, I think we expanded on that a
little bit too much.