Abdurraheem Green – Let’S Be Real About This Election
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Every Muslim in this country has to be
an activist. We all have to be activists.
We caught up with Sheikh Abdulham Green to
talk about this upcoming general election. Yes. You
your vote on its own. What's it gonna
do? Nothing. And he says this time it's
different. What? Because you guys were too lazy
to get off your butts and go out.
And you know what? I'm gonna say something
shocking. You've been saying this election,
it feels different.
Can you expand? What what do you mean
by that? How is this election different? Or
what's how is the mood different for you?
I think number 1 is that there seems
to be genuinely something,
at stake here that
perhaps has not been quite so clear before.
Mhmm. That's 1 reason. And the other reason
is a lot to do with what's going
on in Gaza and the fact that it's
already been shown that
Muslims can have an impact, and they can
shake things up a bit. I mean, this
we saw that with,
George Galloway in,
what's it, rock? Rochdale. Yeah. Rochdale. Rock. Yeah.
Rochdale.
Yeah. I I and and not just George
Galloway. The fact that it seems the Labour
Party has literally been purging itself of
any type of Muslim presence.
There's just gonna be a re there's a
reason for that. Yeah. And the fact that,
the fact that therefore Muslims have shown that
they can actually make a difference.
I think that's that's something
that is key.
And I think that's something we all have
to bear in mind is that it's very
clear
that our votes actually can make some sort
of difference.
How much that's a
how much how how much does it matter
in the end?
That is something that is up for debate.
And I I think that's the first thing
that I would like to sort of address
is that look. Just because first of all,
none of us should be
deluded into thinking
that voting in an election is gonna bring
any type of significant major change.
It's not.
And that is the first thing, is that
everybody has to get that out of their
head. If you think that you can go
and vote, and, yeah, I've done my duty.
You know, I've I've made my contribution to
enjoying the right and supporting justice and supporting
justice and supporting some better candidate.
That is a very big mistake, and that's
actually to sleep for the next 4 years.
And then you go to sleep for the
next 4 years. No. This is terrible. This
is
and to be honest,
if you think that, then you have really
been taken for a ride completely.
You've totally misunderstood,
what it means in terms of activism, what
we have to really do,
in terms of being act every Muslim in
this country has to be an activist. We
all have to be activists.
And that active our activism,
you know, the
my point is that actually
the least effective
idea that every drop raises the ocean. Every
No. You know, every major thing is really
just made up of lots of little things
put together.
That's why I tell you what, someone, I
was like, when I was in Canada,
traveling through the Rocky Mountains, and I there
was 1 particular
scene I saw
of, what it was just the mountain. I
realized that this basically, this huge massive mountain
was made up of 1, 000, 000 and
millions of compressed
bits of pebbles,
and I was thinking there is a sign.
Allah Allah puts a sign in everything. And
what is the sign? The sign is is
that over 1, 000, 000 and 1, 000,
000 and 1, 000, 000 and 1, 000,
000
and 1, 000, 000, 000 of bits of
pebbles have made mountains,
and we have to think of things like
that.
You you yourself are not gonna do anything.
Yes. You and your vote on its own.
What's it gonna do? Nothing. But collectively,
time after time, plus adding your activism,
and the activism of millions and billions of
other Muslims,
Is that gonna make a difference?
Yes, it is. And so you have to
look at it as part of a complete
and holistic
picture.
That is why voting is important. Not your
vote on its own. Don't get disappointed. Oh,
I didn't make a difference. No. That's the
wrong way to look at it. We have
to
we have to feel and we have to
experience this as a collective
effort.
I think when you do that, that is
the paradigm shift. You're not thinking,
I'm gonna make some difference. No, you're not.
But collectively, together, altogether,
everyone persistently doing it, you know, year after
year, 4 years after 4 years, and we
keep going at it, yes. Is it gonna
make a difference then? I do believe it
can make some difference. Yeah. Yeah. And everything
in between as well between the elections. I
always say the elections are very tiny, tiny,
but very important thing.
Right? You have to lobbying, you have to
hold politicians to account, you have to, you
know, build your grassroots
kind of,
activism. You you mobilize the people,
invest in media, invest in narratives, invest in
discourse,
invest in dawah, all of these things. And
the voting is just 1 thing. It comes
it takes 10 minutes, you know, every every
4 years. But it's a it's a key
part of the broader, you know, political empowerment
and generally. And that that feeling of, okay,
this is the be all and end all,
it kinda works both ways. I don't know.
I've never seen someone who, you know, literally
says, I'm just gonna vote and then nothing
else, and I'm gonna fall back under
a, a shell or whatever. But there are
people who are who feel that what's the
point, you know,
what's the point of voting because
because maybe, subconsciously, they feel that that is
the only outlet, or that's supposed to make
some massive
gigantic changes. And if it doesn't, then they
think, oh, you know, we tried and and
it didn't work and this and that. And
importantly, it's more like,
about just a person. If we cult to
cultivate our own that
we're we're constantly,
proactively
taking any action that we can, you know,
as long as it's in the right direction.
We see an opportunity for khaed, Even if
it's small, we just do it. Absolutely. We
don't try and talk ourselves out and philosophize
and try and explain,
you know, explain to ourselves why we shouldn't
do something. Because we can convince ourselves and
talk ourselves out of not doing anything.
But it's about imagine having legions and legions
of Muslims that
are that have that tarbia that anytime there's
a, you know,
an opportunity for just voting or a petition
or, you know, boycott or,
you know,
some some bins need collecting around, at the
Masjid or whatever. Some tiny little thing. The
fact that, you know, if we if we
nurture our community that this is a that
they're on, that they're just always active people
that they're taking an opportunity, not thinking, oh,
what's that gonna do? What's the point of
doing that? What's the point of doing that?
Yeah. That that that has huge ramifications. It
does. It reminds me of that hadith where
the prophet
told us that if you knew the day
of judgment was tomorrow, if you knew it,
still plant a tree.
Like, you you think what is the point?
The benefit of planting a tree, as the
prophet said, any creature that, you know, eats
from it, any creature that benefits from it,
you are gonna get rewarded. So if the
day of judgment is tomorrow,
like, what benefit is there gonna be? But
the benefit is in you being active. The
benefit is in your intention.
The benefit is in you being persistent.
Even when it seems like there's no benefit,
you still go ahead and do whatever little
bit you can.
Because that's the attitude that you should have
as a Muslim.
That's your mindset.
Your mindset is
is, you know, you're never gonna give up.
You're gonna keep trying. You're gonna keep doing
whatever little bit that you can.
And I think that hadith of the prophet
really emphasizes that, and that's how we have
to look at what we're doing. Again, you
know, like you look at Starbucks, it's lost,
what, 17, 000, 000, 000?
17, 000, 000, 000?
That's just because
lots and lots of Muslims and non Muslims
have all just decided, nope. We're not gonna
we're just not gonna get coffee from that
place anymore. Yeah. And it's it's you know,
you think, what what a little old me.
What's it gonna do? Well, you better What's
your what's your child, Artie, gonna do? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You know? Like, you
know, it's the
Crunch, it was a big sacrifice for some
of us more than others. But Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. Well yeah. I mean but but
definitely. But, I mean, that's the point. And
I think the other thing that I sort
of want to address is, again,
not just about voting, but about what are
MPs gonna you know, can MPs really make
a difference? And, actually, they they really can't.
I mean, as an MP, it doesn't matter.
You're just lobby fodder. I was listening to
this. I don't know who the MP was,
some, you know, conservative MP or former conservative
MP who was saying that when he got
to Westminster, he was just basically shocked that
all those that stuff he'd heard about being
lobby fodder and just having to tow the
party line was exactly true. And unlike most
MPs have no idea what legislation is being
passed, They don't read it. They don't know
it. They don't understand it,
and, they just do whatever the party tells
them, which I think is all the more
reason we need more and more independent candidates
really in reality, I think.
Again,
the system needs a major shakeup.
And, again, it's about, yes, can 1 MP
loan MP on his own,
make a big difference? Probably not. But if
it happens enough and it happens persistently and
consistently enough, it begins to make a difference.
And that's how, again, we have to think
about it. Yeah. I mean and also, we
have to have realistic expectations as well. I
mean, Azad from cage once, he said, don't,
when when he was talking about encouraging people
to vote and stuff, and, obviously, he's he's
he's he's been, like, you know, pushing people
for years, but he's, like, also expectation management.
Because then people might get disillusioned. So what's
the point? He said don't water banana trees
expecting mangoes.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's true. 1
MP is not gonna probably do anything in
terms of, like, global majors, you know, changes.
But they have, they can have a huge
impact on your constituency, for example. If you
have someone who's actually listening to your concerns
and getting you the help you need on
a local level. If you have someone who
is part of a
collective movement, for example,
you know,
making it difficult
for,
the the the ruling party to just, with
a stonking majority,
kind of trample over any objection.
Like in the Iraq war, for example, they
had a huge majority.
You know? If you have if you have
those independents in
there, they can make things more,
difficult and more annoying for the ruling parties.
And look. That's
Also, You know you know sorry to Kaira,
the just remember, UKIP, for example, in their
prime, they had 1 MP in parliament, but
they were able to, you know, have such
a huge Yep. Kind of seismic change. Why?
Because you don't have to be in power
as a government Mhmm. To shift the, what
we call, the Overton window. The Yeah. The
window, the spectrum of expressible opinion.
So it went further further, you know, right
wing, for example, went further further towards, okay,
normalizing
Brexit and all that kind of stuff and
stuff that, you know, you you you were
saying you get ads for on Facebook.
Yeah. And no. I mean and, really, literally,
what you said is,
not but, generally, I was gonna mention, generally,
is that at the end of the
day, it may not seem like it, but
we're still dealing with MPs,
you know, with parliament. We're still dealing with
human beings. To be honest, even at the
end of the day, corporations
are still run by human beings. There's still
people who have to go back to their
families. They have to look at their daughters
and their sons in the eye. Right? And,
you know, they have to look at each
other and and, it's sometimes
just someone being there with a voice
who can express their outrage, who can
clearly,
articulate what's so wrong about what is being
done.
People do get moved. People do,
people
do feel bad about doing the wrong thing.
You know, so we should not underestimate these
things. I mean,
emotional.
We're gonna be running on these emotions,
and we're gonna be influenced by these type
of things. So, I mean, that's a I
mean, the the example of UK is a
very, very good example. And you see what's
happening with Reform UK,
you know, it's you know, an extraordinary phenomenon,
of its popularity, the rise, you know, the
massive rise of the right wing. We've seen
it in France now.
Yeah. So, you know, these changes, the I
mean, obviously, they're not positive
changes. We probably wouldn't look at them as
positive changes.
The funny thing is this you know, I
you know, again, I'd you know, again, 1
of the things that I think
I don't know if we failed to do,
but we just you know, we we don't
seem to be very politically mature. And, actually,
I just think we're sort of almost reaching
adolescence
as a, you know, community, literally adolescence. We're
sort of like teenagers who are beginning to
get a bit of. Yeah? But still, we're
tied to our mother's skirts.
You know, we still sort of can't quite
leave home, right,
what we're familiar with.
But that political maturity is not really there
with the Muslim community yet. We haven't really
woken up, but I I loved what you
were saying, Salman. I did love that thing
in that podcast that you gave where you
were mentioning well, not a podcast, but that
little broadcast, whatever message,
What you're saying is that it's not about
what political party
that you're from. It's about, do you represent
our interests?
I don't really care if you're Labour, if
you're Reform UK,
if you're conservative,
if you
represent
the things that I believe in and I
think they're important,
then I'm gonna vote for you.
And I think that is very a very
interesting approach because it's entirely nonpartisan.
But I think part of the problem is
often well, we just haven't done anything like
that. Mhmm. We have slavishly almost entirely slavishly
voted Labour
even though there are other candidates
who clearly represent
a way broader
spectrum of things that we are interested in
and that we share
in common with. I just you know, I
do understand, but on the other hand, I
don't, how we have not managed
to build broader alliances
with people who we actually share
some really strong
values with, yet they look at us
as the enemy.
They look at us, and they put us
in the opposite camp.
I was I was just reading something, some
Instagram meme of, you know, a person was
basically
listing all these things they believe in, you
know, family values and, you know, not all
of this gender confusion and and, you know,
the rule of law and whatever. Against drugs.
And then they add on I was also,
we hate Muslims. And yet Muslims Muslims will
put and yet Muslims are put in the
opposite camp. Yeah.
Yeah. Along with, you know, the the the
opposite camp as if these people are the
enemy. And it's like, dude, do you don't
you know that we actually share, like, most
of those core values that you've put there?
We're we have we have them in common.
Like a divide and rule, isn't it? It
is.
There there definitely is that going on. And
sometimes it looks like almost
almost we don't have a choice,
because we're sort of forced in that direction,
not necessarily because we want to,
because because those people do treat us like
enemies. Therefore, what do we do? We run
into the arms of,
you know, of someone else who Mhmm. Not
necessarily
who does not necessarily represent our values that
well. Yeah.
But because they present themselves as being tolerant
and,
you know, and and open and so on
and so forth, we go to them. But
I think 1 of the things again, going
back to the initial question, what's different about
this election? Well, we are really now seeing
the true colors and the true extent of
this
so called tolerance and openness and this and
that. This is actually very limited. It's very,
very limited.
And and that in fact, they don't really
seem to be I think that the main
thing is they don't seem to be that
different. That's that's the main thing. The 2
main parties
at the moment, there's so little between them.
It's just
you know? It it's I mean it's time
it's time
to vote for someone else.
Yeah. That that's 1 thing a lot of
people have been saying as well then. Even
like I was reading, there was some hit
piece in the Jewish Chronicle the other day
against the Muslim vote campaign and and all
that kind of stuff, and saying that the
senior Labour Party,
kind of, officials are really worried about this.
And something like 20%
of, their vote share has been,
reduced from the last kind of local council
election. And, you know, people like George Galloway
as well and loads of kind of independence.
And, yeah, there is actually a a, an
alternative noise. And, again, we have to, you
know, be be realistic with expectations. It's more
about 1 thing that really was heartening about
this must invoke campaign, this movement is
they said, this is a 25 year plan.
You know? A 5 election cycle plan.
And, you know,
I've been kind of, involved in the local
area as well, and there's lots of things
that, you know, didn't realize
kind of going to,
Ranga
campaign and, you know, building alliances and building
kind of a a consensus among the community
and that kind of stuff. And there's so
many lessons already. And so many young people,
you know, Gen zers
that are they've got the fire in their
belly. They're not gonna take nonsense from anyone.
And now they're getting, you know,
dipping their toes in this,
arena.
They they could be an unstoppable force, you
know, in in 10 years, in 20 years'
time.
And and if you think about it, our
community is kind of, you know, doing well
in terms of growing the as well.
Yeah.
At the same time. So, you know, statistics
show,
or projections show rather that, you know, the
we're gonna be quite a good chunk of
the, the the population. And particularly, the working
population as well, and that brings its own
power as well
and and
influence, and demands and stuff. Because someone said
in in in, I think, so, 10 or
20 years, Muslims are gonna be,
25%
of the workforce working age because the average
age of population is so high. People in
out going into retirement. And Muslims are, you
know, predominantly younger,
and, you know, and having kids and stuff.
If anyone in the comments, if that's wrong,
just please correct the the the numbers there.
But something something big, either 1 in 10
or 1 in 4, something something, you know,
big like that.
But in in in terms of
some of the obstacles to realize,
this this power, this,
kind of empowerment.
There used to be, you know, more voices
about that are a bit timid or anti
kind of,
getting involved in politics or or stuff like
that or public life. Maybe there are stereotypes
in my head, but, like, it was quite
heartening to see,
after salah in a masjid. I was in
a masjid, some brothers.
You know, they were giving a talk after
salah.
And I was, like, kind of almost fell
off would have fallen off my seat if
I wasn't sitting on the floor. But he
was like, brothers, don't don't forget to vote
in this election.
You know, this is an Islamic duty.
You know,
He's the the biggest scholar in in the
planet. 1 of the biggest scholar in the
planet. He said it's it's obligation for you.
It's a duty to try and do your
I was like, wow, man.
Maybe it's just in my head that stereotype,
but I would think certain people that are,
you know, very kind of focus a lot
on spirituality and and stuff like that. They
they don't they wouldn't, you know, necessarily talk
about voting or political activism or different things
like that.
And there's generally
other types of people as well. I've seen
lots of people,
kind of,
encourage the community and say, you know what?
Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna vote this guy
out. I'm gonna punish these people. We're gonna
overthrow this local, labor guy or whatever. We're
gonna punish labor.
But there there are still people that are
hesitant,
you know, about voting and stuff.
And it's kind of transmutated.
Be it used to be like you know,
there used to be some people that are
Islamic. They don't know this this is kuford,
all that kind of stuff.
That's kind of,
you know,
we hear that less and less. And and,
you know, and as I mentioned, the scholars
around the world there and and council of
scholars importantly,
they're talking about is it obligate an obligation
or not. So it's harder to even argue,
is it or anything like that. But Yes.
But in terms of regardless of the that
that I I mean, not regardless of that.
And I think that kind of, Islamic
angle is is less important for a lot
of people. They're talking about
things like, you know,
does it even make a difference or, you
know, I'm just 1 person or the system
is against us or that kind of stuff.
Is that have have you come across that?
Because you've been around, Moshe. I'm not gonna
wanna expose your youth or anything, but you've
been around for multiple,
you know,
I think I think generations.
I, yeah, I think the issue of apathy.
There is this there isn't it's very easy
to be apathetic. I mean, that's that's part
of the problem. It's just very easy,
number 1, to be, oh, I don't know
who to vote for. Right? Yeah. That can
be genuinely confusing.
Are they all the same?
Yeah. Or they're all the same. But they're
they're not all the same. That's just not
true.
And I think it's just you know, at
the end of the day, you are just
looking for
where is the greater good and the lesser
evil. That's all you're looking for. You're looking
for where is the greater good and where
is the lesser evil. And there are organizations,
institutions, and and many Islamic,
you know, organizations that, you know, produce
things to help you
make a decision.
I think, again, get back to the initial
discussion is that something that has really pinpointed
and highlighted this, like, in a really it's
sort of hyper focused everything
is the issue of Gaza and how MPs
have have voted about the ceasefire. It's I
mean, I think most people, even so many
non Muslims, find it incomprehensible
that you you wouldn't vote for a ceasefire.
You wouldn't vote to press
urize, you know, the Israeli government to stop
massacring women and children, whatever their excuses may
be. Most people clicked is like enough is
enough.
Even if you accepted the whole paradigm of,
you know, 7th October and self defense, let's
just say for the sake of argument, you
accepted that as a valid paradigm. Most people
would recognize that it has a limit.
Your right to defend yourself doesn't mean that
you can nuke the rest of the world,
for example, to take an extreme
you know, example.
So I I think this is the point
is that that what this has done is
it has
this 1 issue has hyper focused everything to
make people realize,
that there's something wrong. There's something, you know,
insanely
corrupt
and wrong.
And again, let's
it's easy to be apathetic, but I think
in this particular instance,
most of us now and that's what it
is. Like, I think most people, not even
most Muslims, most people
are very black and white. They fixate on
a single thing. I think that's where Faraj,
the detail of the the genius in a
not in necessarily in a good positive way.
And the genius of Farage is he's just
focused on immigration,
that people feel instinctively
uncomfortable.
They do. People are tribalistic. That's just people's
nature.
People like generally,
you know, you want to be around people
who look like you, who behave like you,
who have the same cultural habits as you.
Most people do not feel,
you know, intrinsically
comfortable
with different cultures around them. It's just
it's just that's just normal human nature.
Now experience overcomes that if you live in
multicultural
situations and you enjoy it and then you
sort of move in the opposite direction. That
becomes your normal and you sort of love
it and thrive off it. But for a
lot of people, it doesn't matter.
Ask most Pakistanis,
how would you feel if someone came and
built a church in the middle of your
village that looked like a British Anglican church?
Would you feel good about that? And a
bunch of English people moved in, they were
you know, and started drinking beer and opening
a pub. Right? It's like, no. You know?
You know, apart from the side of it
being haram and this and that, just it
just doesn't feel comfortable. You know? People don't
generate that's just humans. People are like that.
You know? They'll they don't mind the old
white the old the old white man walking
through the village. There's a curiosity,
but you start getting 40, 50, 60 of
them. Right? See how comfortable
you feel.
I'm I'm I'm not saying this is justified.
I'm just saying this is human nature. Human
nature. So he's latched onto this 1 issue
that, especially a lot of people who do
vote, older people,
right,
of my generation and older than, whatever, who
feel, oh, I've lost our country. It's nothing
to do with immigration. It's nothing to do
with immigrants. It's a lie that immigrants have
got anything to do with it. It doesn't
matter, though, does it? Right? Because he's latched
onto this 1 thing. Mhmm. And I think
on the other spectrum, it's Gaza. Gaza has
had that ability
to be 1 issue that says, wait a
minute. There is something we can focus on.
There is 1 issue that I can use
now to decide
whether this MP is a half decent human
being or not.
Mhmm.
And that is, did you vote for a
ceasefire or not?
Yeah. I mean, we have we have Netanyahu
to thank for that, really, that he's exposed
all of the, you know, the the corrupt
people that are that work in the interest
of this. The whole facade of Western human
rights of
the international courts of justice. You know? Like,
it came out. No. No. These are just
for, you know, these are for black people
and and colored people. Right? And Tim Pot
dictators. You you don't, you know, you don't
and maybe an occasional European crook like Putin.
And I'm not saying Putin is a crook
or not. I'm just saying that's what they're
saying. But Yeah. No. No. You you can't
do this to our our allies. That's not
what that court is for.
Subhanallah.
You know? So I'm not going to Imagine
the impact
Yeah. The impact on on the like I
said, the Overton window. If you have more
and more people
in parliament
speaking truth to,
to that,
that that domain.
Right? About Gaza. Absolutely. You know? Making speeches
about Gaza,
because it's that's the thing.
Many people misread power. Like, you know, if
we don't get involved, then they'll see there's
no not enough people getting involved.
And somehow they're gonna be like, oh, sorry,
guys. Let we'll change.
You know? We'll change our system because you're
not happy with it. And, you know,
you know, here's some taxes back or whatever.
No. You have to be a threat to
power. Power only
only, you know,
responds to threats.
And, it's not like likewise, the the
the media establishment, they're not gonna just kind
of report things that you're doing out of
the goodness of their heart. There might be
some good journalists, but they tend to get
pushed aside, and they have to go to
alternative media outlets
and, you know, or just do their own
thing on social media, for example. But if
you become too loud to ignore,
now the editors, now the mainstream papers, they
they get embarrassed into and shamed into,
you know Yeah. Reporting stuff. And imagine more
and more people
like that in parliament. You just you don't
need a lot. You just need a handful
of loud people. You know, I think remember
the, in in the some mentioned the sierra
of the prophet
sallam, it only took about 5 Qurashis
to overturn the the,
the boycott against Yeah. The boycott.
And Banu Hashim. And they strategically placed themselves,
like, separate in separate areas in
the the town or when there was, like,
a, like, a, like, a meeting.
1 person said, this is wrong. You know,
they're our cousins. We shouldn't be doing this.
And they were like, be quiet. Be quiet.
Then someone else stood up saying, yeah. Yeah.
He's right. No. This is wrong. We should
we should over and then some a third
person said so they gave the impression. You
know, they shifted the the over to, you
know, the
expressible, you know, the the what is normally
allowed to be expressed Yes. And like that,
you know, in in parliament. And there there
there are people running now who have who
have a track record of speaking up for
the Palestinians, speaking up for Yeah. I mean,
they're not perfect, obviously. Like, for many people,
for example, they might be, you know, good
on Palestine, but they'll be quiet
or, you know, even worse on other areas.
But Yes. Just the the issue of Gaza,
because there's a genocide happening,
this should, you know, take some of our,
attention. And and and we were talking the
other day about 1 particular candidate,
when it comes to, you know, someone who
impressed with you are saying that, Yeah. Andrew
Andrew Feinstein. I mean, it's interesting this he
he this he just popped up on my
Instagram feed.
Some little piece that was done by Double
Down News,
it popped up. I was just rewatching it,
actually,
and it was this
very, you know, scathing but unemotional,
but very precise
and quite scathing attack on Keir Starmer, which,
to be honest, I mean, you know, I
felt uncomfortable with the guy. I, you know,
I felt he was Starmer's very robotic.
And, obviously, his position on Gaza is, you
know, everybody
like, you know, you're an international lawyer, and
you're there saying,
you know, that that, you know, you can
cut off water and and food and
bomb hospitals. It was like, what are you
talking about? This is ridiculous.
And the fact that he was so openly
expressing the atrocities, same atrocities happening in Ukraine,
would speak about it, but wouldn't speak about
it when it came to Israel. But, I
mean, you know, okay, that's not on its
own enough to sort of sink a person,
but he he started really getting deep
into
how Starmer was just a lot worse than
that and how he'd stabbed Jeremy Corbyn in
the back and and, you know, like various
things. He basically said he just cares about
power. He doesn't so I thought, like, whether
it's true or not, you know,
I don't know enough, but, I mean, I
I found that he was very analytical, very
precise. Mhmm. And more than that, then he
was saying, well,
he is he was gonna stand against him
in, in Camden or what's Holborn and Saint
Pancras. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
And
and I thought, wow.
That's interesting. So I started I I thought,
let me follow him on Instagram because III
really took a like to him straight away.
I I liked him straight away. I felt,
you know, this I like this guy. You
know? He I think the most thing I
felt, he was really genuine, and the thing
that I felt is he really cares. He
cares about people. He cares about people. And
then I was more impressed when I found
that he was, you know, worked with Nelson
Nelson Mandela to, in his government,
to dismantle apartheid. That's where he's originally from,
South Africa. So he's a seasoned politician,
and he's a seasoned politician fighting
against injustice, fighting for something that to support
something that is true and good
against something that is really horrible and horrific.
I thought this is a guy I find
this guy interesting. So I started following him
and listening to more of his stuff, and
you know, I thought I thought, you know
what? I've never felt tempted ever to go
and campaign and go on the street and
hand out leaflets and go knocking on doors,
but, literally, I thought, you know what? I'm
gonna get in my car, drive down to
London, and, you know, start
start doing some campaign
for this guy. Yeah. And even even we
were chatting about it, weren't we, Salman? Because
you were saying, like, some of the Muslims
there in Camden and perhaps in Pankhurst and
Holborn are a bit reluctant. I thought, no.
You need to get behind this guy. I
mean, you know, what a shame. You know?
Can you imagine that because 20 Muslims couldn't
be bothered to go out and vote
for someone like him. A really decent
thoroughly decent human being. Mhmm. Seems to be
a really decent human being
that because what? Muslims didn't go you could
have ousted Keir Starmer.
You could have meant meant that, you know,
that, yeah, Leiburg has become the power, but
without that guy, I mean, it would just
be a laugh apart from from from me.
It might not change much, you know, but
it would just be brilliant.
And what? Because you guys were too lazy
to get off your butts and go out
and vote? I mean, to be honest, I
don't know why the looking at this, looking
at Andrew
and the sort of stuff that he stands
for,
he's very active, very pro Palestinian, very active
attending their demonstrations,
follow it's looking like A principled anti apartheid
guy. Very principled person. And I mean, like
I said, he seems to be a thoroughly
decent person. Mhmm. That's what I'm the the
you know?
Again, you're not gonna agree with everything a
person says or does. Of course, you're not.
Yeah. But, you know, if if if a
person is 50, 60, 70, 90% there, and
yeah, there's there's 10% stuff that you're not
gonna agree with. Really?
Are you not gonna support him because of
that 10%?
That doesn't make sense to me. It really,
really doesn't.
And are you telling me perspective
as well, it's very problematic to things like
that.
Yeah. Absolutely.
And and can you imagine the upset? Can
you imagine
can you imagine? Are you telling me that
wouldn't have an impact if someone like him
got elected as the I mean, it is
possible
because I mean, we we had a I
had a podcast the other day with the
the data scientist by the Riyad, behind the
the some of the numbers for the Muslim
vote campaign. Mhmm. So they have a, you
know, very good kind of, you know, loads
of spreadsheets and very good system. You go
to the Muslim vote dotco.uk.
You put in your
you know, you can see the constituencies and
I see it. Yeah. Numbers and how how
many Muslims are around, how many votes are
needed for
to change the swing and stuff.
But, what he was saying was there's there's
not that many Muslims. There's about
6000 Muslims, and you need, like, I don't
know, 20 something 1, 000. But like you
said, he's a decent human being. He appeals
to lots of non Muslims as well. Muslims
need to do their duty as well. And
they are, Alhamdulillah, lots of them. I know
a lot of brothers there in Camden.
Shauna, Camden.
But,
also, what needs to happen is
just generally, not just,
but all the but is like a figurehead
and definitely,
but all of the, the people who were
kind of supporting genocide,
there needs to be
a national kind of rejection of these people.
Yeah. I was listening to the I was
listening to, like, the the country's to 1
of the country's top pollsters, the former head
of YouGov.
He was saying that this year, because there's
so many,
independents and other parties are taking off kind
of votes, This year, the poll show that
Labour will actually get fewer votes than Jeremy
Corbyn's
Labour Party.
Then they actually they want they they they
they predicted a landslide victory,
for, because of the way the the the
constituencies work. But the fact that,
as a nation, as a collective people, we
can at least just protest and say, look,
we are voting against you. The national popular
kind of vote
has has has bled. It's like,
gone down to, he said, about 20%
for labor.
Right? Yep. In terms of And to be
honest, this is I think this is personally,
I think this is the direction
that politics,
you know, in this country needs to head.
Yeah. We've gotta get rid of this 1
party party system.
When, you know, I heard Starmer being interviewed,
he said, oh, it's produced strong government. No.
It's always produced totalitarian governments who can produce
all sorts of horrific,
draconian legislation,
strong government.
That's what he wants. You know? Like yeah.
What Hitler was strong government. I mean, look.
We want strong people power. Isn't that what
democracy
is supposed to be about? Not strong government,
but, you know, strong response to what the
people want.
Yeah. So I mean, at the end of
the day, I think exactly strong government is
the III know my anarchistic tendencies are coming
out here. Mine too.
Yeah. I heard 1 guy saying we need
we need 6 years of anarchy where, basically,
we still have councils running the place so
we can still have living, but we don't
want we don't want any more legislation. We
don't want any more government.
Right? You know, wind down a few I
mean, anyway, look. I mean,
this is all, you know, above and beyond
my head. I can't possibly Yeah. Volunteer
what, you know, some
positive solutions for this country is. But I
do think that to be honest, I even
think that
if there are people who
have genuine
racist tendencies,
well, they should have a they should have
someone who can vocalize
what they care about. I think that's important.
And you know what? I think if
imagine you had a situation where you had
lots of independent voices. In fact, banish all
political parties.
Then I literally banish them, abolish them. They're
not no lobbying, no political parties not allowed.
Right?
You vote for people.
You vote for the the the politics that
you care about.
By and large, what I think will end
up happening is you'll have lots of disparate
voices,
but guess what? They'll have to come together
to deal with Yeah. The things that people
really are really important to the country.
They'll have to sit down and figure it
out, and then they will have to come
together. And then the only things that will
really ever happen in a parliament are things
that actually genuinely, genuinely
important.
Right? And that's it. It doesn't become you
know, because at the moment, what is parliament?
It's just the, basically, it's just the rubber
stamp for
corporations and for lobbyists. That that's what it
is. I I call starma just an empty
dummy ventriloquized
by,
you know, lobbies and the highest bidder.
That's what it seems to be. I you
know, I I'm hope I hope we're I
hope I'm wrong. Yeah. I hope he turns
out to I mean, you know, like, I
I have this ridiculous sort of,
I don't know if it's ridiculous, but I
sort of hoping it
I my optimistic
side is saying Labour are playing a
a clever game. Yeah. They are
presenting themselves
as being a, you know, mid center sort
of almost Appealing to a racist.
Yeah. Appealing to people because they realize that's
the only way they're gonna get into power.
That's, yeah, that's the argument I'll tell you
something else. I don't think I'm gonna say
something shocking.
I actually don't think Tony Blair and Gordon
Brown, they were actually
they were up until the Iraq
what happened in Iraq, they weren't that bad.
I mean, yeah, from the Muslim perspective, prevent
every single 1 of the home
secretaries seem to pass some more and more
draconian legislation that really impacted Muslims. But put
ourselves aside,
I think they they did a pretty pretty
good job, but they just sort of I
don't know what. Is it hubris
that what happened in Iraq? I I don't
know. I mean, it's it's new conservatives,
basically, you know, from the US,
pulling the strings
Yeah. Unfortunately.
Yeah. But, yeah. So I don't know. We
we we we can only wait and see.
But I think at the end of the
day, I I personally my sort of position
now is I I what do you think
about I'm interested to hear your opinion. Mhmm.
What what do you think? Do you think
you should vote
based on your
what you think is the best party, or
do you think you should vote strategically? What
do they call it? Not strategic voting. What
do they call it? It's, Block voting?
No. No. When you
vote Tactical.
Yeah. Tactical voting. That's something I'm a bit
in I'm in 2 minds generally, but a
broad long term strategy of block voting and
stuff. Mhmm.
Because I feel eventually the long term goal
should be to make to force all parties
to compete for your vote. Right?
That's how
all successful lobbies do it. They don't kind
of put their eggs in 1 basket or
anything, but they try and kind of influence
all,
all parties and across the spectrum and stuff.
But that's a kind of a longer term
thing for me. In terms of this election,
we've got like you said, people need an
easy, simple kind of thing to rally around.
That's Gaza.
This election is about punishing the mainstream party.
This election is about making public incar,
yeah, condemnation
and So anything in my case sorry to
interrupt. But in my case, you know, for
example,
it's basically gonna be
either conservatives, because I live in a very,
very traditional conservative
sort of area. Very unlikely
that
maybe the Lib Dems might get in.
And and, I mean, both Lib Dems and
Labour are claiming they've got a chance. Labour
are claiming they're in with a chance. I'm
definitely not voting. I I just can't vote
Labour. I just can't take myself to vote
for Labour. Lib Dems, I'm still I I'm
sort of not impressed, but they're sort of
better.
I mean, my my choice would be we
don't have really any good independent candidates. So
my my natural choice would be Green, the
green party, which is the best on the
spectrum. Because of the name? It's a mix.
Because of the no. Because because it's
because on the spectrum local guy's name is
Abdul Rahim. Yeah. Well, no. It's not, but
I that could be a a future. Who
knows that I might look at
in my old age. You know, my dad
would have loved it, me getting involved in
politics.
But, Not the greens there. Yeah. God rest
his soul. But he always wanted to Right.
He said he's he always said I would
have loved to get involved in politics. But,
yeah. No. That's my choice, really. But it's
a wasted vote in terms of making any
change. Is that, you know, a lot of
wasted,
remember, because
it still counts towards the the national
kind of the vote shape. And the the
So my question is, Summer Man Yeah. My
question is, however,
it may reduce
the chances of conservatives
getting ousted and the Lib Dems, for example,
getting it. Mhmm. So if I give my
vote to the Greens, I when I say
it's wasted,
for me, that's what I wanna do because
I'm
supporting the party that I believe
close most closely represents
what I think is important.
And I think it's important for them to
know
that
these people exist who are supporting them. Yeah.
But on the other hand, that may mean
that
we, you know, have 1 less possible MP
who's gonna bring a little bit more benefit
in the right direction.
Yeah.
What's your so so I would suggest I'm
a
I wanna ask you for your, postcode.
S might be. No. Okay. Don't don't publish
this 1. Yeah. 1 second. Let me put
it into the, the Muslim vote. Let's see
where it comes up.
This is interesting.
You can, you can, mention the whole thing,
and I'll just bleep it out.
Okay. Shropshire.
Yeah. The whole family is saying, but what
should we devote? I mean, you know, typically
Sir, we do not currently have an endorsed
candidate for this seat. Please vote for a
candidate from the Green Party, Workers' Party, S
and P, Plaid Simru,
or Liberal Democrats.
Please check the party.
Yeah.
They might they might be they might have
updated it before the election. Who knows? They
said, please check back, but it's probably because
you have, like, 2 Muslims in that constituency.
No. There's no. There's a very few. We're
very, like, it's very white, very Yeah. Very
conservative.
Yeah. Okay.
So, yeah, that that that's probably an exception.
But if anyone else watching, you could just
go to the muslimbird.co.uk,
put in your,
your postcode, and it will already have normally,
it will it will give you AAA recommendation,
an endorsement based on what the local community,
kind of power brokers and stuff and mosques
and leaders and stuff have suggested to have
kind of united behind and say, okay. This
is the 1 that has a chance to
punish Labour and punish Tories and also, you
know, so Maybe we should have a maybe
we should have a a different thing, united
against genocide.
Yeah. Instead of the Muslim vote, you you'd
you'd cast a wider net, and you'd bring
in more people.
And
and, you know, it's
just to say
the there's there's gotta be some red lines,
some things that we just can't. How can
we as human beings sit and watch this
happen,
and our elected
politicians are just not doing anything to stop
it. It's Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. So this is our chance to,
you know,
just
condemn condemn labor, condemn Tories, condemn genocide.
Use our voice. Like, well, like we said,
it's not a huge,
you know, it's not the be all and
end all, but it's a small part, but
a very crucial part Yeah. Doing our job
in Shana.
Absolutely. And so brothers and sisters,
there's there's tomorrow, isn't it? So Yeah. Just,
you know, make your little contribution. That's what
I really encourage you. Do not let apathy
get in the way.
Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Sheikh, we've, we've
taken up a lot of your time. I've
got a few quick fire questions for you.
Okay. Quick fire. Quick fire. Just 1 of
the first thing that comes into your head
just split out. Yeah? Name a recent book
or audiobook that you would recommend.
Well, the 1 I'm reading right now is,
Kristen Gulley's Wild Signs and Star Paths,
52 keys that will open your eyes, ears,
and mind to the world around you.
Absolutely fascinating.
The world is a the world is full
of signs. These are the signs in nature
that anyway, it's just fascinating. And if you
if you link it up to the idea
of ayaat,
the Quran, being a book of signs, it's
actually
mind blowing. If you can
put the 2 things together, you think.
So, like, literally, this has got my head
buzzing right now. Can you can you give
an example?
Something you use to Just for example I
mean, things for example
is that we we're quite good at
as human beings, we're quite good at spotting
things that,
happen consistently
and that are a real threat to our
lives. So
things that might indicate, you know, a saber
toothed tiger or a bear being, you know,
in you know, those sort of things. Things
that happen consistently,
you you we're quite good at spotting those
as human beings. What we we get worse
at is things that well, he gives the
example, for example, of tsunami.
There are actually very clear signs that animals
know a tsunami is coming, but because they
happen so rarely,
we are not tuned in to spotting them.
That's funny. But that got me thinking
about
the signs that Allah has told us about
about the day of judgement.
The the ayaat
that point us to something that is bigger,
that is over a wider time span, that
is
outside the realm of human experience. But what
he says in the book is that when
you focus on these things, when you know
about them, and when you focus on them,
it's different. Your your brain starts to adapt
and you start to pick up these. It's
almost like you just intuitively
start to know. And I think, you know,
I think so many of us as an
example, this is not a quick fire. Now
it's turned into a whole lecture.
But, you know,
so many of us like, if if anyone
has read and read and read over and
over again the signs before the last day,
the the things the prophet told us
you will undoubtedly,
everyone is getting this feeling that, you know
what, something is happening. We are in these
days. We are getting so close. It's almost
like you can feel the danger
happening. It's like round the corner. It's that
that type of stuff that is it's not
from the book itself. It's the connections that
you can make as a Muslim
between the
signs that are in nature and also how
he talks about everything is connected, how everything
is in nature is connected. So it's, you
know, it's it's it's not so much the
book itself. It's the
what it can lead you to if you
think about it. So yeah. My empire. Wise,
Empire
Yeah. Empire by William Durinple and Anita Arnon,
absolutely
brilliant.
I mean, not everything that you're gonna people
are gonna agree with, but what he's my
actually, I was in the same history class
as William at school. Yeah. We're both in
the same we're both in the same class
as well. We're at school together, William Durrett,
and we're old schoolmates in the same class
as well. But, I mean, abs and I
have to say this guy is outspoken on
Gaza as well. I I've seen him take
a lot of slack for it, and he's
outspoken.
You know, may Allah guide him. He's still
following on his Catholicism.
But what a brilliant, absolutely brilliant podcast. Yeah.
Empire,
William Durham Paul, and Anita on a highly
recommended brothers and sisters. You know, if you're
stuck in the traffic, especially stuck in the
traffic in London, put it on. Brilliant. It's
not something that will make you more vics,
is it?
Or make you more vics?
You're not yeah. I don't know. In not
in a way in a way, what's good
about it is that
you realize that although history doesn't repeat itself,
it, you you know, it doesn't exactly repeat
itself, but there are patterns that just happen
again and again. And it sort of contextualizes
everything. It's like you think your life is
bad. Well,
you know, you just see what happened to
people in history and what humans beings have
been going through. So,
yeah, I mean, absolutely. Check it out.
Yeah. So good. If you I mean, honestly,
if you're not listening if you haven't listened
to it, you are missing out. You are
seriously missing out. Okay. Well, check it
out. Next question. What gadget other than your
phone do you value the most?
Well, my Insta 360
x Oh, I've got 1 of them too.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Probably my Insta 360
x too. Yeah. Probably the the thing I
use the most other than my phone is
my
I know you've got 1. Yeah. I've seen
it in my direct footage. I use it
for mountain biking. For my mountain biking, sometimes
for walks in the countryside.
I'll bring my post to that. On my
Instagram and stuff like that. Yeah. You know?
I'll bring mine mine when I come to
visit in China.
Really good little camera. Really good. And there's
there's another 1, x3 now, which has come
out, which is even better. But I haven't
I'm not forking out for that. There's not
that much difference. Yeah. So, yeah, basically, yeah,
Insta 3 60 get a sponsorship.
Maybe. Maybe.
Which website or app would you encourage others
to visit or download?
I don't really use it myself. That's why
I 3 x the app.
Yeah. No. The Quranly app. The Quranly app.
I have used it a couple of times,
but I have other apps that I use.
I don't find it myself super useful. However,
I know a lot of people who do.
My kids use it. They say it's absolutely
brilliant. They love it. It really helps them
read quite and and it's developed by 1
of our guys in our era, you know,
Lisa Khan. So he's actually developed that
app. So good on him,
Definitely recommend it. Yeah. It,
it's basically a habit building app that makes
it makes Habit building. Very genius. Absolutely genius.
Habit for you.
Yeah. Good habit.
Okay. Final question.
Finish this sentence. If our audience would remember
only 1 thing from this podcast,
it would be How,
handsome Salman is.
His lovely hairstyle. I love that hairstyle. I
tell you. I mean, seriously,
at least you've got hair, man. That's it.
I I used to be known for my
lovely locks, but they've all gone now.
But,
yeah. No. 1 thing I know it's like
just relying on your good looks, Kirsten, to
lie. To remember, brothers, the thing to remember
is listen. This 1 little saying,
every drop raises the ocean.
Every drop raises the ocean. No.
Yeah. Change is change is really made up
of lots of people consistently
doing little things. That's really what brings it
can build mountains. It can make mountains. It
it can, you know, change the level of
oceans. That's all it is. If the ocean
the sea level rises, what it rises by
what?
Just literally billions and billions of little drops
entering the ocean, and it gets higher and
higher or, you know, less and less. So
that's it. Don't do not think that
your little bit of contribution
is worthless.
Don't underestimate.
Because if everyone makes a contribution, it amounts
to something.
Wow. Amazing. On that bombshell, Jacques Machar, Sheikh
Abdul Rein Green, AKA Uncle Green.
And, Zak Maheir to you for watching at
home or wherever you've been watching this. If
you like this podcast, give a like and
a share.
Check out some of the websites we mentioned.
We mentioned Quran. We mentioned the Muslim world
dotco.uk.
And, yeah. Until next time.