Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera – ISoc Hotseat
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AI: Transcript ©
It's a pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you for your
enlightening speech on the personality of
Qualcomm sort of it was a pleasure to be here.
I just like to start with a personal question a bit about
yourself, your background growing up, where were you educated? And
what were your motivations for going into being?
I think my situation is probably very different from a lot of
people because my father was somebody who had actually studied
and became an island as such. And my grandfather from my paternal
grandfather was also half of the Quran, my maternal grandfather was
also memorize the Quran. And at least had at least another uncle
who was a Mufti as well. So for me, they were my role models in a
sense that I had to study and then I guess, relatives that seriously
you have to be an island, you're going to be anonymous. So it was
kind of there. I'm not saying that I was the best kid growing up, I
messed around, I had problems I had issues and so on. But there
was a there was this desire to go and do something. And I remember I
went, I was born in Hackney stayed there until about 11 years of age.
And then I went to Darwin Berry, which is up north. And it was
difficult. In those days, the mother also was much more Spartan
in the way things were and,
and I probably cried for a long time, a few months, you know,
homesick, as you call it, and then then you kind of get used to it.
You're living with, you know, 15 other people in the same room. 10
other people in the same room from different backgrounds, different
ethnicities, different habits, and attitudes, and all sorts goes on,
right? Somebody may steal your foods.
Subhanallah, you know, it's theirs. If they come to mine, I'll
mention them. But then, obviously, I still wanted to be there. I was
like, No, I need to be there. And my mother, you know, she was a
very strong woman, she used to cry as well, that I'm no longer at
home, although I had three other brothers and a sister as well. But
she had a lot of him and my father had a lot of him and Al
Hamdulillah. It worked out. So I stayed there for and finished off
done. Then I went and traveled to some other countries.
So my next question is related to the talk. If there was one point
that you would like us to take away from the talk, or pointing in
the light or personality of the man in the room, that you would
think we should learn from implement in our lives, what would
it be and why. And the whole reason I chose him was that out of
the 10 guarantee Jana, he's one of the wealthiest of them, along with
Monterey Alonso better the Allah one. And his life was full of
Baraka, his life was full of mashallah disposable income. But
the point that I was trying to get through and what I benefit from
myself as well, aside from the fact that he's my namesake, but
for everybody else as well is that he had wealth. He spent it, he,
you know, but he also spent the path of Allah, but he did not
allow it to get to his heart and overcome him. So he always
remained a master of his wealth, and anything that Allah had given
him. It did not let him be a slave become a slave of it. And I think
that's a very important lesson for us today. Because in the West,
we're dealing with a lot of prosperity Hamdulillah, and that
could become a fitna. There's a fitna of prosperity, a challenge
of prosperity, when you have too much, it does certain things to
you, when you have less, that becomes a challenge. We're dealing
with this challenge. And I find him a perfect role model for that
if somebody studies his life, that's why I chose him. And that's
why I think we should take away from the talk
in terms of studying the lives of Sahaba How important do you feel
it is to do so? And in terms of having positive role models or
producing such role models as a society? What advice can you give
us? I think the best place you could go to get a role model other
Sahaba and the reason is that they were those that the Prophet
sallallahu alayhi wa sallam,
they were chosen for us with Allah and Allah is going to be amongst
to interact with to deal with, to basically sample the entire life
of Rasulullah sallallahu sallam. The whole sampling was with the
sahaba. They were chosen then they couldn't have been chosen if they
were not at the stage that they were. And they were perfectly
receptive community. They were, as I mentioned in the talk, a diverse
community with the rich and the poor, the old and the young, they
had all that diversity that comes in any community. But then the
reason why they become a role model for us is because
they took the guidance directly the prophetic guidance Rasul Allah
In a lot of them, and they did it in better than anybody that
anybody would be able to do that came after them. So if we're going
to go for a source for our role models, let's take it from the
first source. Now the Prophet sallallahu alayhi. wasallam is
also a source for us. But then sometimes because he's a prophet,
we sometimes feel that he's kind of beyond us, when Sahaba,
although they're also special, but we can relate and different people
among us will relate to different Sahaba would, again, they give
women will be able to relate to Aisha Hadiya soda, Radi Allahu
Anhu. So that's why if anybody stays away from the Sahaba,
they're depriving themselves of a really big resource. And you can't
gain guidance without being with the Sahaba because they're the
ones who the guidance have been transmitted, they are the first
link in that transmission. So we have to go for that transmission.
And that's why there's books like higher to Sahaba by Sheikh Yusuf
Condell Rahmatullah here, and he has a wonderful collection of
just, you want to know anything, anything, you you look at that
collection, and you'll find some guidance from the way different
Sahaba related to things differently. They were not doing
the same thing all the time. But the one thing they were doing at
the same time, was the attachment to Allah, and the absolute
selflessness in that regard. That's why Radi Allahu anhu, what
are the one? Allah is pleased with them? They're pleased with Allah.
As university students with the time and opportunities that we
have, what do you think our top priority should be after our
immediate studies? And in relation to them? Do you think we should
choose one thing to focus our energies on such as a power or
charity work or politics? Or do you think we should try to be an
all rounded individual but spread thinly?
So already, your question assumes that nobody can be a master of
all, which there's an element of truth to that nowadays, because we
have become very restricted and weaker individuals than our
predecessors were. In our previous lessons, we had people who are
literally masters of everything in a sense, but then sciences were
not sprawled out today as they are.
What you should do is, look, you everybody is going to be doing a
different course. So somebody is doing engineering, somebody's
going to do medicine somebody is going to do within medicine, or
somebody's gonna become a pathologist, somebody may do a
speciality become a cardiologist. Now, a lot of the vocations that
we're going to choose, you can't really,
you know, that you can't, they're not really, you can say religious
in a sense, right? They're not always all even maybe
contributing, in a sense, some, some, some are not of that nature.
But the one thing that you can do is, do the best be the best at
what you do. As long as the vocation is correct what you're
doing, whatever it may be, just be the best engineer that you can be,
if that's what you're doing. Because that's something is that
is attainable, work hard. When you're a student, don't be
distracted. The best friends are your books, your studies, just do
the best that you can. So be the best doctor, be the best
pathologist, if that's what you're going to become. And then once
you've done that, you'd have more say, because you'd have more
confidence. So when you go to get a job, you'll speak with
confidence. As soon as somebody speaks with confidence, it says a
lot about them. It inspires confidence to others, you get more
respect that way, then your religion will become less of a
hinderance and most students, they think that they're going to be
prejudiced, there's going to be prejudice out there. In the end,
there probably is, and there probably is, you know, but if you
inspire confidence, and you're good at what you do, and you show
that you can contribute, and you have a level of empathy for
others, you know, non Muslim companies, you're working after
empathy for people, at the end of the day, you can't go into a job,
and then start slacking off, doing the minimum and waiting for your
paycheck check, can't wait to get home, go contribute. That's the
way you're gonna get some honor, then people will respect you for
that. And that's what's most important to how you're going to
get respect from people and be honored. So it is a very good dua
in that sense, as well. Allah, Oh, Allah make me honest in the sight
of people, but make me lowly in my own site. So I don't think too
much of myself, but others, they respect me, because you need
respect in this world to get anywhere. So when you do finish,
it's really difficult to say do this, do that don't do this, don't
do that. It really depends on what you can do. The main thing that I
think is most important is have a have an aspiration from now,
students need to have high aspirations and this is how the
great people, they all have high aspirations, the higher
aspirations, I would say right now, when you're starting out,
you're still students have 10 ideas, have as many ideas as
possible. You know, sometimes students will come whether that be
a students in a mother assault student, I don't know what I'm
going to do afterwards. That's ridiculous. You need to have 10
ideas 20 ideas. You may not be
able to fulfill all of them probably will not. But at least
you've got 10 ideas to pursue, you may do five of them. So I have a
lot of ideas. That's why one of our teachers and I'm speaking, you
know, from
the scholarly perspective of studying the dean, I remember one
of our teachers he said, when you're studying, don't think that
I'm going to go and teach level one books. You know, the basic
books on fake or Hadith think that I'm going to teach Buhari. So
study accordingly.
Study accordingly. So even if he had then don't end up teaching
Sahil Buhari and the top level books, you'll still end up
teaching the Fourth Level books. But if your intention is I'm just
going to teach, you know, the first level of books and you may
not even get there. So high aspiration is what I say and then
the world is yours. And while you're studying, one thing I
learned from another teacher of mine, is that don't let a day pass
without praying to the gods of salatu Hajah. Right to records of
prayer asking Allah to accept me for the service of your deen.
Believe me, then you will see the roads just open up in front of
you. Sometimes in a vocation somebody's an engineer, how is he
gonna? How is he going to be of service to the deen, Allah will
open up the path, he'll choose him in a particular way. Right? So
Allah knows how to use people. And that's what we want to do it for.
Right? So rather than make our own decisions, have our ideas,
ambitions, goals, but ask Allah to choose us. And you'll see that
when if Allah chooses us, that's our there's, there'll be Barack in
our studies, and there'll be Barack afterwards. And you'll have
a more fulfilling career and life, which is the most important thing.
My next question is in regard to the role of Muslims in the world
and society in general, towards an ever changing place. And
constantly the role of Muslims in British society is being
scrutinized and portrayed as being the fifth column, or as us as
being not truly British. What do you think our role is? Is as
Muslims in British society? What is your vision for Muslims in the
21st century?
That's a lot of stuff to cover. But I think, simply put, I think
we've got a lot to contribute. But the problem is that many Muslims
today in the West are on the defensive, they're on the brink.
They don't know what they don't know what great thing they have
going for them. Because they, many of us have actually
come into the world in this type of a dip, I would say a recession.
Not I don't mean, I don't mean an economical recession, I'm saying
I'm talking about in terms of Islam, and we're being attacked,
left, right. And center media doesn't really portray Islam. So
if somebody doesn't have a proper understanding of Islam from the
proper traditional sources, then they're going to be like, Why am I
missing? What am I doing? There's a lot of people like that. So
there's no confidence, we need to inspire confidence, number one,
because Islam has a lot to offer us and everybody else. And the
best way you can make your data is not by going and trying to shove
it down somebody's throat. And then you know, being seen as just
somebody, it's by your action. I'm not to say you don't talk to
people, you do talk to people, but it's actions speak louder than
words. And what's most amazing that I find is one of his early
mentions,
among us only mentions that people steal character from others
behavior from others without even realizing. So if you're acting as
a true believer in society, at your workplace, at your college,
at your university, and people, people really appreciate good
character. So I think Muslims, they should see what is the goal
that's hidden in their tradition, and then be confident about it.
Because then you have confidence. You can inspire confidence in
others. Be a confident believer, make your religion work for you.
Don't just be a faith that you inherited from your parents. This
is the problem, right? People are just considering the deen Oh, I'm
a Muslim because I was born a Muslim. No, there's much more to
it than that. hamdulillah but there's much more to it than make
it yours. And then you will see that inshallah you have much more
Congress, you need wisdom in the way you deal with people.
Everybody out there is not evil, right? There is a way that you do.
There's a theology, but then there's a practice and we can
learn that from Rasul Allah, Allah, some any Sahaba how they
dealt with, with others, and we have to have empathy and
compassion, we have to try to work for humanity in general, not just
for one group or the other. May Allah subhanaw taala accept us and
you and everybody else for that.
Whereas Muslims, do you think there is an urgent need to reform
as a society? Which attitudes need to be thrown out and you want to
adopt it? And what do you say to those who say that Islam has
changed with the changing times?
Again, which symptoms do we do we speak about? I think the first
thing is that Muslims need to stand on their own feet. Because
if you look at certain European countries, the reason why there is
certain aggression began, certain aggression began against him.
Since this because they started to abuse the system, the free welfare
system, like in certain European countries, that lead the people to
think who are these people coming in? And I'm speaking about Muslims
as immigrants here, right? And they said, what's going on? So
then there's a massive political backlash. The other thing is that
I think we do things in the wrong way. We allow things to happen in
Palestine, for example, right? Because Palestine is the big
elephant in the room, right? It's a big, it's a big issue for us.
And it is.
So what we have is we've got,
we let the problem happen, then we collect huge amounts of money to
try to patch it up. It's gonna take 20 years to build houses
only. Can we not get a bit more savvy from beforehand, and spend
money talking to politicians, and campaigning property, that's the
politics of the place. That's the way it works. Hamdulillah, I do
see some movements of it. But we need to see more of this. It's to
use the system in the right way so that you can get people to
sympathize with you to see it, and to vote against something before
it happens to put pressure in the right places. We wait for things
to happen, and then we suddenly react, we need to be more
productive.
I think it's very important.
Zack gonna shift and take a look at your claims of vision. One
question, one last question. I understand that in your quest for
knowledge, you have traveled extensively, including South
Africa and the subcontinent and Syria. What were the different
approaches in terms of studying and teaching the deal in these
different places? And what are the specific advantages of these
places? What advice would you give to people beginning on their path
to seeking knowledge and want to travel abroad? What do you think
is the main Islamic imperative to travel?
The if you look at all the great scholars of the past, they never
like stayed in one place. And that's why Imam Shafi has a
beautiful poem that I just love. He says surfer, he says travel
because you will learn five things through traveling, he mentions
five benefits of traveling. And one of them is that you learn
better character. Because we sometimes get used to bad
character, and we become immune to it. When you go to another place
you start seeing, you will meet people of dignity, you will, you
will see your own worth, you can actually then, and you will see
different approaches will open up your mind. So the different
approaches in these different countries. One is you can say the
approach that started off in the subcontinent, which then permeated
through too many of the seminaries in the UK, South Africa. So they
pretty much the same. It's a very structured course, that tries to
give you a decent grounding in all the main Islamic sciences. But
it's a structured course generally in a situation where there's
boarding, and you pay a certain amount of fees. And then you know,
you get the whole package. Syria was very different. The yes, they
had certain madrasahs. They had certain Jamia and Gemma, where you
could go to study, but Syria has Syria, just like many other
countries as well has become non traditional Now, despite being
traditional is kind of a bit of a dichotomy there. What What I mean
by that is, they are more into now specializing, right, they're going
to specialize in Egypt, as far as like that is like you you focus on
Hadith only, and thus you're very ignorant of tafsir, for example,
or you focus on tafsir, you don't know much Aqeedah Medina
University is like that as well. However, Syria has a bit of the
other side as well, where you can actually go directly to the
scholar, I had that and may Allah subhanaw taala bring back some
stability and peace to that region, because Syria was just
wonderful. It's a place that the province has made dua for and you
can actually see the difference when you travel there, I haven't
been to Yemen. But when because that's the other place that Brazil
wasn't made to ask for. But you can see serious is wonderful
Subhan Allah was just wonderful. And we really pray for stability
in that region again, and respect for the people against all that
aggression. But what they had is they had scholars mashallah
sitting in the masjid, willing to offer to teach people for free,
and you just go to the scholars and you know, you get a time with
them. And then you can go and study whatever you want. So they
had a lot of the traditional classes that were going on. So
these are the different approaches that you have. But for anybody who
really wants to become a sculptor, you're gonna have to give a lot of
dedication, and you're gonna have to travel and get get as much as
possible from the great scholars of the world. Not for the name of
it, but for the experience and the benefit that you get from these
people because then you'll be able to work better in Sharla with the
other Armando Gara. I would like to take this opportunity to thank
you for the thought provoking speech you gave to us today on the
personality of the monument of the LA Zoo. And I would like to thank
you for taking the time out to talk to talk to us today to talk
about here, it was an absolute honor. May Allah subhanho wa Taala
allow it to have its desired benefits wealth with their own
inherent physical market again