Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera – Getting to Know Mangera
AI: Summary ©
AI: Transcript ©
Bismillah al Rahman al Rahim, a warm welcome to all our listeners
of Ramadan, radio London on 87.9 FM streaming live on Facebook,
YouTube and online. We greet you all with the greetings of Islam
and peace. Assalamu alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.
You are currently tuned in to the imams in the community show which
is a weekly show where we are in discussion with various Imams and
scholars regarding their journeys and community efforts aiding us to
appreciate scholarship better, and really understand some of the
grassroot grassroots work that are going on in our local communities
in London and Hamdulillah. This week, we are very fortunate to be
joined by the eminent Sheikh Mufti Abdul Rahman, Mangueira haffi the
hula move these are really needs no introduction to our listeners,
but just to share a short brief biography just to remind us all
with the Abdul Rahman is a British Muslim scholar educated in both
the Islamic and Western traditions. He memorized the Quran
by heart and graduated from the third Islamic seminary to be
established in the UK, which is the daughter of bloomberry.
postgraduation his passion for seeking knowledge led him to
further his studies in South Africa, Syria and also India,
eventually earning a specialized license as a Mufti from the
prestigious mandala hidden Allume Sahara and pool. He also earned
his BA from the University of Johannesburg in South Africa, and
completed his MA and PhD in Islamic Studies from the Service
University of London with the of the rough man also has a unique
experience of serving as an imam in Muslim communities on both
sides of the Atlantic eight years in Southern California and over
five years in our great city of London, and his continued work as
an international speaker and lecturer enables him to address an
author pertinent advice on current challenges that Muslims face in
the West. Recently, he also founded the white thread
Institute, which is a postgraduate Institute for Islamic scholars and
graduates, and is also an avid traveler, and continues to teach
Hadith and work on scholarly publications through his
widespread press, and his lectures and courses are available on
zamzam Academy and Rayyan Institute. So without any further
ado, we would like to introduce you all to our respected guest for
today, mostly, Abdul Rahman, Mangueira Assalamu alaykum
Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.
So I've been to La Habra cat, which is like a look here
for this opportunity, this honor to have this discourse, Inshallah,
about,
you know, the various different things in sha Allah for our
listeners, Allah bless you. I mean, and we're very grateful that
you've been able to give us some of your time from your busy
schedule to join us today and talk about some of these efforts in sha
Allah, how have you been keeping to them of discipline? How's your
Ramadan been going? So far? Milan is just very busy. There's like, I
mean, it's a good thing. There's a slot for everything and
Hamdulillah I mean, it keeps us busy. Hopefully we can be
productive. And I can say I only have like half an hour of free
time a day. But I think that's a good thing. I'm not complaining,
Charla
May Allah bless you for all your efforts. Now, to start off with a
point of having just read your biography, I'm sure. Something
that really stood out to all of our listeners, was both the
breadth and diversity of your studies having mashallah, as we
heard studied in many countries, and in both the traditional and
Western spheres. So we'd like you to start by requesting you to
share with our listeners some of your reflections from being a
young student of knowledge. And in particular, regarding what pushed
you as a young British Muslim, like many of our youngsters today
to pursue such extensive studies of the religion
Smilla Rahmanir Rahim I think I'd have to give most of the, the
credit there to my parents and my extended family Alhamdulillah I
think I was just lucky to
be born in a family that had quite a few houses of the Quran, people
would memorize the Quran, quite a few people who studied the Sharia
in depth. And for example, my grandfather, from my father's side
was half is of the Quran. My grandfather from my mom's side of
mom's side was also a half east of the Quran. And it was studied in
Lucknow, though We're originally from Gujarat in India. And then my
father had studied and graduated as an alum as well. My uncle was a
Mufti. Another uncle was a half is in the Quran. So it kind of ran in
the family. But I would say that, I mean, just because something
runs in the family, I've actually seen some times where people
have an aversion to what their family does, whether that's to do
with business. So if they family, I've actually seen where there's
families with all doctors in their family, and I've spoken to some of
these children. They just don't want to be a doctor. They want to
do something else, but their families want them to be a doctor.
Likewise, I've seen I've seen cases where the family is into a
particular business but that
Do you want to do something totally different? They want to be
a designer or something. Right? So I thought about that for a long
time, I kept saying that is just because it was all of that. But I
think I think the bigger thing was, that while we had all of
these people in our family, I think this is what I think can be
helpful. And so look, if you're born in a family, if you're born
in a family that doesn't have that kind of an environment, or that
kind of parents or whatever, or if you are somebody who's not a
scholar, or whatever, and you're worried about your children, then
my situation, I can't transfer to somebody else, because you either
have scholars in your family or you don't, right. So that's not
something which is very transferable, at least in the
current generation. I mean, you can do that for your next
generation. But I think there's one transferable point here that I
have, which is that Alhamdulillah, rather than rebel against the
system, rather than say, Hey, I don't want to do that.
The reason why I think I also was really, really, really inspired to
study was because the religion and religious people, like good
religious people and scholars were glorified in our home.
What that meant is that they always spoke about religion in a,
in a really respectful sense, glorifying sense, celebrating
sense. If a scholar had come out of town. In those days, we didn't
have too many local scholars, right?
British born because when I was growing up in the 1980s,
there were very few local graduates, most of them were all
do speaking from abroad. But generally, whenever they came,
there was a lot of respect shown about them. We didn't criticize
the scholars, right? We didn't put them down. We didn't say bad
things about them. Right? This isn't to say that you're covering
somebody's mistake or something like that. It's just that there
was just this thing about somebody became a harvest of the ground
like an extended relative or somebody when you became harvest
of the grass like, mashallah, you know, like, he's become a harvest
of the ground, look, what he's earned. Look what he gets, you
know, it was glorified religion was glorified. And I think that's
something everybody can do is respect to knowledge, respect,
people of knowledge, respect, the Quran, respect, Islamic features,
Islamic salient signs and features, like Ramadan and other
things, show it to be something that you're concerned about,
right. And, of course, the parents and the extended family have to
practice this kind of stuff to show that it works for them, it
makes them tick, it makes them enriched, and I think that will
then pay off with your children. That's what I would say, I'm the
product of that, I think, and that's something I think you can
and everybody can do in their own homes as well. That's what we try
to do in our home, we try to glorify the religion, not shove it
down the children's throats, you know, of course, you do have to
suddenly like encourage them when they get a bit bored when they're
doing the memorizing the Quran hamdulillah except the last one
last, my last child is done about 10 years of the Quran, 11 Jews,
the others are finished. So here's inshallah Cara. So you don't have
to encourage them, sometimes they all want to do it, but they lazy a
bit a bit, sometimes get a bit distracted sometimes. So you do
have to encourage and put a bit of pressure sometimes, but you have
to glorify and show what you get from it. And what's the purpose of
it, what they get. So even nowadays, after taraweeh, when we
do therapy at home, and then we actually read from a book that
Toronto has published called
the life of a Muslim by
Hakimullah Mahvash, really Tonry. And essentially, it goes through,
you know, everything that's important for a Muslim. So we read
from it, and then we explain it and we, if there's a discussion to
be had. So I think that's very important to have that flow
parents to children and have the open relationship about the faith.
Yes, that's a very pertinent point, then a very important
advice for many of our Muslim families today and how to
inculcate that love that longing for the religion because many
people I also experienced that they feel a disconnect with the
religion. For the reason that there isn't the aspect of love is
always about force. But when they have that aspect of love, it
really does help enrich the experience, masha Allah. Now
moving on to our next question of desire, but after completing your
initial studies, you were fortunate to have the unique
experience of serving as an Imam, which is a really a great role.
And you're an Imam, both in America, in California, I believe,
for over eight, around eight years, and about five years in
London. Now, I'm sure during that time, you must have picked up so
many different experiences. So based on these experiences, what
would you say are some of the greatest challenges and needs of
the Muslims in this time, particularly in the modern Western
world?
I think there's quite a few challenges. And there's quite a
few challenges. I've got several lectures that are trying to deal
with some of these challenges. I would say, first and foremost.
When you see when you're living
In the West, you're living in various different paradigms. I
think let's break it down, you're living in various different
paradigms. So firstly, if you're an immigrant, from immigrant
parents from Egypt, Somalia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,
whatever, there's going to be that particular culture that you're
still part of, regardless of what anybody says about culture,
culture, is probably one of the most powerful force in anybody's
life, okay. It's the most powerful force in anybody's life. So now we
have many cultures to contend with. So one is, if we are from
immigrant families, then we've got that culture, which doesn't leave
you very quickly. It's a culture you have, then after that we've
got what is considered to be the British culture or the Western
culture, broadly speaking, but I think America is very different
from Britain, they both West, but I've traveled to many Western
countries, and they all have differences. So Denmark is a very
different Western culture, to what we have in the UK and the UK is
starkly different to the US, right, very, very different, in
fact. So we dealing with that culture, we were brought up in the
schools, here, we we deal with the culture outside, this is the kind
of clothing that we wear, you know, a mixture of clothing,
actually in a western plus. So then the third culture that we
have, too, is the Islamic culture, which is supposed to kind of
supersede all of this, and not supersede, but inform all of this.
And you can say, temper all of this and mold all of this. And
you can say, yeah, it's supposed to guide all of this. So as
Muslims in the West, if you're in Egypt, well, if you're in a Muslim
country, like Mauritania, there's a single culture you have to worry
about. Right, which is all mixed together. It's an amalgamated
West, African,
Arab, West, African, Arab, Muslim culture, all mixed in one, right
everybody's, Howard, there's, there's a homogeneity down there.
So it's very easy, right? Everybody's doing the same thing.
Whereas here, we can be very different to our neighbors,
because they may be from Eastern Europe, they may be from,
originally from the Caribbean, they may be English, you know,
original Anglo Saxon. So there's a lot of challenges that itself
brings because you're in constant touch with different people. So
there's a confusion for a lot of people. And again, if the parents
and the teachers have not nurtured the best way to deal with all of
these things, it's going to be quite complicated to say what is
right and what is wrong. Not everybody has that kind of
understanding of what's good and bad, what's beneficial, what is
harmful? There's lots of aspects of the British culture, the UK,
the English culture, such right? That is very, very good, right,
that we don't have in even Muslim countries, there's some really
good aspects of that. There's some really good aspects of Indian
culture, like I can relate to Pakistani culture, Somalian
culture. But then there's some problematic aspects of all of
these cultures. And then what's the Islamic paradigm? So when
you're trying to deal with all of these three paradigms, it can get
very confusing. I was lucky that because I went to study and I was
able to figure my I mean, it wasn't easy. There were obviously
challenges like, is this right? Is this wrong? Can I do this? Can I
not do that. So that is the biggest challenge is to try to fit
in. And I think what can help in that regard is to be in touch with
scholarship, even if you cannot be a scholar, not everybody is going
to be a scholar, you know, you're going into medicine, you're going
into engineering, you're becoming an accountant, that's fine. But I
would always say that try to take some courses somewhere, right to
learn more about your faith, because that's what sets us apart
as being Muslim. Otherwise, you're just a normal other human being
that's going to a job from nine to five, or whatever it is, the rat
race of the world, what sets us apart is that we also have a faith
that's still a living faith. It's not a dormant faith. It's not a
Sunday faith, right? Or it's an everyday faith. And for that we
need to the amount of Islam that we have growing up that we
assimilate in on a basic level, maybe from our parents, maybe from
some teachers that we studied by is really just rudimentary. We
actually need the understanding when we become mature, when we
really start thinking for ourselves. Then while all of that
helps, but now we need another level. And a lot of people just
don't bother carrying on this, I think is the biggest malady. And
the biggest challenge in the West, is because because the culture is
not so called Islamic as such, right? You know, there's parts of
which are good, there's parts of it are bad, but it's not Islamic
as such. So that's why you can't just carry on and say everybody's
doing this. Let me do that as well. You can't do that. Because
everybody's going to the pub and in the evenings, right.
Everybody's wants to go to a club. Everybody wants to have a
girlfriend and a boyfriend everybody wants to
You know, get river based loans, you know, everybody wants to eat
at, you know, McDonald burgers, oh, you know, whatever. So you
can't just, you can't just basically
go with the flow, that there's challenges. That's the challenge.
That's what I think the benefit is that if you can connect yourself
with scholars with knowledge, with some kind of good movement, that
is education. And in that sense, then it's really easy because you,
you need a sense of belonging as well. So belonging is the other
challenge. Who do you belong to? Which culture do you belong to?
And if you don't have, if you're living out there,
where there's not a Muslim community, then it's going to be
very, very, very difficult. I've had many Jewish friends I've
spoken to in I've had interfaith programs with many Jewish friends.
And what's really interesting in many Jewish communities that even
if they're not practicing Jews, even if they're secular Jews, many
of them, in fact, even some godless choose, I mean, can you
believe that? They call themselves Jews, but they don't believe in
God necessarily. All right, which is really strange. But they would
like to live in a Jewish area.
Yeah, because the culture is there, they still rate they still
value the culture. Right. So that's why living in a Muslim area
helps I know, sometimes in some very tight knit not Muslim, but
ethnic areas, it can be a bit suffocating, a bit stifling or
whatever. But, you know, you need to decide where you want to be.
Right. And there's, there's good and bad this. That's the nature of
the world, I guess. It's not paradise. But what I was
mentioning them of this idea about connecting with scholars and
courses and Muslim community that gets in today's time is probably
even easier with the online world that we have, right? Very easy,
very easy, Mashallah. Very easy, mashallah, and one of the ways you
yourself actually are continuing to benefit in Muslim communities
is imparting knowledge via various online platforms, for example, you
have the thumbs up Academy, and the Rayyan Institute. So I'd like
you to enlighten us on some of your views on the benefits of
using such learning platforms maybe versus actually going to
your local masjid and sitting in maybe some of the classes and the
general importance of seeking knowledge using, you know, these
new forms of media and online platforms. I would, I mean, I
would probably start off by saying that there's probably no absolute
alternative in terms of physical benefits that you can get by
actually studying at the feet of someone like in a personal contact
with the right kind of compassionate, loving teacher,
there's just nothing that beats that. But the problem is that not
everybody gets that access. And if we look at our sisters, there's
just not enough female scholarship to do that. And there's obviously
challenges when they have to go to male scholars, though, mashallah,
you know, that has been facilitated so far. That's why the
online world has really, really opened that entire now. We've been
we've been doing online teaching for, I would say at least 1515 or
20 years. Right. So starting from America, where we established some
some academy
that was actually started on it being taught on site, the lectures
were put up. And then after that, we started some online courses,
right? There's some really early courses that we did online, and we
still have some actually students from that time, you know, for 20
years, Mashallah. But then, then what happened with the lockdown
last year is that it pretty much forced people to embrace the
online teaching, because a lot of people that had quite a few qualms
about the whole online teaching platform that there's no
spirituality in there. It's not really the same thing as being
physically sitting. Now we know that there's nothing compared to
that but where you don't have access and there's people in rural
areas or there's people in built up areas, but there's not, there's
not much teaching going on. There's Bionz you know, most
mustards and places will have lectures. Now lectures are to just
inspire but the next step is to do some hard learning, right based on
some courses like science of Hadith science of fifth, learn
your, your your rulings on fasting, learn your rulings on
Hajj, if you're going for Hajj, I guess people do go and learn
that's one thing that everybody goes and learns you know about
Hajj, right, I think that's probably the one thing that
everybody goes and learns, okay? But then to learn about all of
these things is very, very, very important. You may not have
anybody locally for that. So that's why the online world opens
all of that up for you Mashallah. And then it's at your convenience
as well because sometimes there's a class taking place at seven
o'clock you can't be there at seven o'clock you have to be
somewhere else or you work or something like that. Well,
mashallah, that's why most of our course in fact, our Rayyan
Institute, so we've got three platform platforms that we're
working on right three or four platforms. The first is some some
Academy which is general lectures, and he used to have courses on
there as well. It's just generated absolutely for free. There's, I
don't know 980 1000 lectures on their property right on various
different subjects that people just can come from and mashallah
people do. Now once you listen to a lecture once you get the
lectures done, and you
Get motivated, whatever the next step needs to be that you do some
solid study, right? As a common person, a normal person, a working
person, whatever. So that's why we then establish Rayyan institute
that provides just general courses, not for scholars, but
just for anybody. Right? And it's got lots of courses out of that
there's a 20 short course selection called Islamic
essentials collection. So we're saying that anybody who comes and
takes that it could take several months at your convenience, right
a few hours a week, that's all you need. And you finish it within a
year you would mashallah at least become knowledgeable of all the
fundamental aspects about Islam all the way from your Hadith, a
bit of history, Quran
Tafseer and your fic and your Aqeedah. And, you know, masha
Allah. So it's a really well tailored course that I would
really suggest people go and take, and then there's some other
elective courses on there. Now, the only thing then, the next step
would then be if somebody's really inspired, then they become an
alum. So they took take a formal study to actually become a
scholar, we don't have that, because there's lots of other
places that are providing that mashallah even online now. Right
before they used to be joining me on site. Now they're providing an
online poll for brothers and sisters. Then after they graduate
of the students graduate as scholars or graduates, there was a
gap. That's where this white thread Institute came in. Right,
that what do our what can we offer for postgraduate studies, advanced
studies? Okay, now you've done six years or five years of in depth
study. It doesn't end there. To be honest, that's just the
preparation, as you know, right? You've finished recently, like two
years ago, something or three years ago, right? Yeah. So yeah.
So there needs to be, you know, there needs to be a constant
professional development, right. And that's what we're trying to
provide. So we've got several courses on there for scholars, but
some of those courses can actually be taken by others as well, like
the jurisprudence course, as long as you know, Arabic, you can take
the advanced jurisprudence course, you can take the advanced Tafseer
course, which is a really wonderful course. And then we've
got the advanced theology course half of which is entirely in
English. So anybody can take that that's called the mastering master
course on philosophy, science and religion. Right? That's a really,
really good course for those who are interested in that subject,
university students and others. Then we've got the flagship
program, which is the Iftar course, which is a two year very
rigorous course, in which we really, really take the best of
graduates to try to train them in the fatwa giving process. And that
is, that's a really full time job as it is and mashallah based on
our first set of graduates, and now, Inshallah, this year, our
second cohort of students should be graduating. These are two year
courses, essentially. All right, so Alhamdulillah, we've actually
now developed a fatwa Center. This is your data lifter, fatwa center.
We've not really promoted much because we're getting so many
questions already. We used to get those questions, some some Academy
I just couldn't deal with all of them. So now we formalized it into
fatwa center, and our Iftar research fellows, we don't call
them Mufti yet. You know, they'll get a Mufti title maybe after a
few years when they've really proven themselves otherwise, one
or two years of if that study, you get a title of mufti, right. Like
I did, you know, like many people do, I don't think it cuts it.
Alright, so we call them Iftar research fellows because that's
what they are. And micellar they're doing a wonderful job. And
we've got brothers and sisters in that regard. So we've got at least
one of our students is a female who graduated, we've got another
two coming up, inshallah. So mashallah, they're doing very well
as well, right? They're doing very well as well. And they will be
answering questions, then we used to get a lot of questions on
menstruation, right. But there was so much ignorance on the subject
of purity and menstruation for women. And they were hardly, you
know, there weren't too many people to answer that question.
And if they were, they would be men and women would find it
embarrassing sometimes to go there. So finally, after teaching
this subject for 10 years to you know, hundreds of women mashallah
and animals, we finally now developed menstrual matters, you
can go there through white thread.org/menstrual matters. And
mashallah, it's an entire website dedicated to everything to
remember matters, you know, you can go there and you can learn the
essentials, you can read up, and then you can even ask questions,
right? And your questions are answered by a team of women.
Mashallah. Right. And so, yeah, that's, that's essentially the
hierarchy that we're trying to keep at every level. The only one
that's missing is an island course because mashallah so many others
are doing it Hamdulillah, may Allah make them prosperous? I
mean, is there a plan maybe to offer an alum course in the
future? We'll see. We'll see what the demand is in the future. I
think there's still, you see, what we try to do, as far as possible
is when we do something, we, we do it well, so we're not in the
business of competition, like just because somebody else is doing
something, let's do it as well. We just Shunda what we're really
looking for white thread, I would say our unique feature is that
we're looking for gaps in the market. So you know, there was no
postgraduate so we said let's start that right there.
was a gap for just common causes. Let's do that for menstrual
matters was a massive gap hamdulillah we're filling that up,
there are other people who are trying to do it as well. We're
trying to fill that. And then fatwa centers, they can't be
enough of them. There's just mashallah so many data lifters and
they're all, you know, maxed out, we have to actually regulate how
many questions we can receive a day. So
if we're going to do one, if we have sufficient graduates, because
what we think we need is a certain mindset of the ILM, who's really
understands the breadth and scope of the society, everything as
well, you know, who marries the context with the tradition, right
texts to context, right as such. So if we get enough of that, and
we see that as the demand, because I think there still is a need for
a flagship Arlene program, where it takes just the absolute cream
of the crop best students really rigorous, rigorously tested, and
then it takes them from through a very, very rigorous course. Right,
I think there is a room for that there is definitely room for that.
And if somebody else doesn't provide it, then, you know, maybe
we can provide in the future. But you know, the other thing is, what
the other thing that will, I've learned, you know, because I've
been doing this for quite a while and take a lot of good advice from
people is don't rush into things and do it in a half, half hearted
way, or in a haphazard way, or in an incomplete way. If you're going
to do something, do it properly. Otherwise, don't bother doing it.
Because I think that's wrong. There's an organization that
contacted me, they've got a building, they have children's
classes and other classes in the morning, and they've got space. So
they said, We want to start an argument course, I said, Fine,
start to 90 Marcos, but make sure it's top spec. Otherwise, don't
bother doing it at all. But we can't find those teachers,
whatever. But at least somebody will benefit. I said, Well, you
just you're you're telling people that they're coming here for a
solid Earlimart course. But they're not going to be it's not
going to be very well, it's not going to be very well done. So
don't bother doing it. So I believe that if you do something,
do it well, for example, our Tafseer program is a one year
program. In many other places, they do have a program that is
probably shorter than ours, and they call it a specialization
program. And I think that's a really bad idea. It's you can't be
a specialist intercede in one year, it's just nobody can I mean,
well, very few people could. It's just an advanced course, that's
what we call our course, we call an advanced course, our
jurisprudence course we call it an advanced course not a
specialization, we have only one specialization course, which is
the Iftar course, because that is really a specialization course as
far as we can, you know, we can take it. So we try to name things
correctly, we try to keep things balanced, and we only try to do
what we can there's lots of ideas people pour into us do this do
that. We only do it if we have the manpower and we can do it
properly. Otherwise, it's not worth it. Don't do anything half
baked. That's why inshallah you will get quality with why through
Insha Allah, may Allah allow us to maintain that that's very
important. I mean, another interesting point about you did
just touch on was female scholarship and our Muslim sisters
studying Islamic knowledge. Now, generally in society, we see today
that when it comes to the sister studying the deen, it's not
expected of them that they achieved as highly as the males.
And a lot of the time the standards in the places where
females are being taught are not expected to be very high. And a
lot of places are happy with kind of mediocrity and not trying to
achieve so much will be your views on this. And you know, what should
be our attitude towards the education, the DNA education of
our Muslim sisters? You see, look, I believe that women are capable,
but there's a few disadvantages there. The women are different. I
mean, we have
at some times we've actually had our best students being women,
right compared to the men as well. So in terms of just understanding
ability to write to, to understand, you know, mashallah
phenomenal people as well, right? No doubt, that is one disadvantage
that is across the board so far, which may me me, I doubt it,
though. I don't I don't I don't know if it's ever going to be
sorted. But it's just women are never going to have the access.
that men have to just wait a scholarship because most scholars
are men. All right. And you know, there's a ticket and other between
women and men and we've seen abuses when it gets to, when it
gets a bit too close or too free. We've seen abuses of that. So
that's why women are always going to
there's going to, you know, it's going to be more of a struggle for
women to become masters to become proficient in at a high level in
the wide scope of Sciences. Right? Because number one, they're not
all being provided to women, like you know, in depth Hadith studies
in depth. Fick maybe right now, but it's just very difficult for
them to get that to rub shoulders with other experts in the field
like for men, you know this call it that's come to the masjid by
default, you're going to be in this lesson. You will benefit from
that you can speak to them, you may have a little chat. Women just
can't do that. So that's a big
disadvantage. The second disadvantage, which is a natural
one, and I've come to terms with it right before, I used to have a
lot of problems with this, but I've come to terms with it, the
prime not problems in the sense that I have no problems with it
because of what it is, but I just didn't understand it. So I used to
complain a lot that why can't we produce top grade polymers? We
can, we can provide, we can produce top grade animals, but
it's always going to be difficult for them to just be completely,
you know, have that kind of breadth of learning, because the
access isn't there yet. Maybe it's in the future will love or Adam.
But the other big thing for sisters, right, which is their
primary job, I would say is the nurturing of the second
generation, the next generation. Right? That I think is the primary
job, right? I mean, you know, if anybody wants to say whatever they
say, but that's what it is. That is what it is. And because
somebody needs to bring up the secondary who's going to do it,
right? The men, the men can help, but they can't be the primary
nurturer. In that sense. Men just, just don't they just lack
emotionally. You can say men should do this, and should do
that. And they should do that. Well, good luck to that, right.
That's just, it's like trying to say that, you know, in the West,
people, let them let them mix. But Let there not be any abuse. This
is just not gonna, it's just a very difficult thing to achieve.
Right? So the women are kitted out, this is what Allah subhanaw
taala has provided for them as their primary purpose, which is to
be the mothers of the second generation, right. And that's not
something that you can really multitask in Alhamdulillah, we've
either got the successful women we've had either women who have
not been married, right, so they're still single, and they've
got the time to dedicate or those who are married, but are now have
older children. So they don't require the same effort because
you know, a child between the ages of zero to 1415 is mashallah,
that's a task that's a full time job, may Allah bless and, you
know, bless our sisters for that it's a major job, and that Allah
has kitted them out for that. That's what Allah has gave them
the right kind of emotion, the right kind of hormones for that to
happen, okay. That's why it's going to be very difficult for
them to take time away from that, to, you know, to become a Buhari,
or a telemovie or rozalia, you need to spend hours, you need to
spend hours, the full day, every other time besides eating and
drinking or whatever, is. That's how you become great people like
that. And women just cannot do that. And Allah will compensate
for them them for that. Right? Allah will compensate them for
that. So there you go.
In our courses, men and women have the exact same axis. Right? Exact
same axis. Yes, we have a we have a veil. Right, because I think
that's very important. Right? But but they had the exact same access
in in the ability to bring up discussions, ask questions,
everything. So we've made that we've had to come to, you know,
some very strict and very careful considerations to make sure that
they can still benefit. But the fitna aspect is curved, because
there clearly is always going to be a fitna when men women, as the
professor Larson has mentioned, so that's what we try to do. May
Allah subhanaw taala make us successful and beneficial. But
women, mashallah, when they can, they should definitely take some
courses, because everybody can do that everybody can do, they may
not become an admin, they may not become top scholars or whatever,
that's fine. But they can definitely educate themselves
because they need the education for the next generation as well.
Yes, it's very important, very true that the education for women
are is definitely very important, masha Allah. Now move to another
area you've been working on along with the white thread Institute,
you mentioned it's a postgraduate Institute for Muslim scholars.
Another really interesting area is which you'd like to finish on is
white thread press, which is your publishing house, which is
producing high quality Islamic literature in the Islamic
language. And dare I say probably one of the highest quality Islamic
publishing houses along with others, such as terasse,
publishing, etc, are producing really good translations really
good publications, inspirational publications that both scholars
and laymen can benefit from. So would you share with our
listeners, your aims and kind of your views, when you set up White
said, press, why did you set it up? And why did you see it as
something very important for the Muslim community to have?
Well, I mean, the way it happened is that when we were studying in
the room very, we
produced the book. It was just a collection of dollars, but we
couldn't find a book that was well referenced. So being a bit
pedantic was like we need to produce a collection of dollars
with
All the proper references and the you know, make sure that we've got
it properly from the sources. So we did that. We now you can just
print out photocopies. This we did for the younger students, we were
older students. At that time, I think we were in the fourth year
of the program of the six year program. So then we decided, hey,
why don't we just publish it as such, you know, get it properly
done. And when you see that happening, you know, when you get
your your first book published, it's just feels amazing, right?
There's this, I don't know, it's something it's quite amazing. Then
after that, I did the provisions for the secret, which is totally
been I'd actually missed studying that. Because I'd gone for one
year from Darwin had gone to India to study and the other room, they
would teach it in the second year. And when I went to India, they
didn't teach it there. So when I came back and missed it, and it
was a book I was really looking forward to because it's a
collection of Hadith, but 300 Hadith. And so I decided that let
me do a translation of it. Let me do a self study and translation of
it. So I started doing that. So I'm Hamdulillah, then there was an
issue in those days with people going around telling the Hanafis
and others that hey, the pray the way you pray is completely wrong.
And it's good for and I don't know, some extreme stuff, the
selfies at that time, they've calmed down quite a bit. Now Allah
bless them, right? You know, we've got a lot of good people. Now.
They've calmed down quite a bit. So it was writing a book on the
evidences of the Hanafi. School. Now, when you write these books,
who's going to publish it, the idea is to take it to somebody in
college, and I had no idea, right? For me, it was just like, hey, we
need to get it printed, let's get some money together and print it.
So it was never like, hey, let's find a publisher. Because there
was no such thing. I think what benefited me was that bottle room
had a magazine that they used to release, I don't know, every month
or two months or something like that. So they had kind of a bit of
a setup in there of how the whole publishing world works. So maybe I
think I've benefited from that. And I would definitely use their
resources, right. And so we just decided to print now what happened
is that when we printed fickle Imam,
I printed 1000 copies. And this was in my fifth year of the
course, fourth or fifth year of the course. And it sold out in
three months, 1000 copies take Wow, your first book, first
authorship right first authorship in one, three months, 1000 copies
are gone. That's huge. That's a real inspiration. That's a real
encouragement. So then we did the next edition in which we added
three other chapters. And this time, we did 3000 copies. And this
time, it took one year to, you know, to go. But that was a real
inspiration. I thought, this is something you know, when you see
the success of something, then I would say that my while I teach
and do all of these other things, but I think what I wake up for in
the morning, right, which is really what I enjoy most is the
publishing. And that, that unfortunately, that's everything
about publishing. So I waste my time actually, in typesetting. I
like design so because when we were, I then moved to America, and
decided that we should publish the fibula Imam again.
But now, by that time, I developed I think quite a bit myself. And as
like the original copies of that, it needs to be updated, it needs
to be edited. And so I did a lot of studies on publishing, and
editing and all of this. And then once it was already, they said,
Okay, now we need to typeset it professionally. I inquired about
typesetting prices at that time, and somebody quoted me $20 A page
for Arabic and English. And I was like, I can't pay that for 100 200
page book currency, is that going to be right? That's going to be a
huge amount of money. I said, I don't have that kind of money. Let
me do it myself. So I started studying typesetting And
Alhamdulillah, I really enjoyed typesetting I think I'm a bit of
an artist, I really enjoy it. I mean, I shouldn't be doing it to
be honest, because a lot of time that I try to multitask when I do
it, otherwise somebody else should be doing I should just be writing.
But anyway, Hamdulillah I enjoy it thoroughly. So we're very
pedantic. It took us three years to republish that book. Because we
try to make it that I want our books to be able to be accepted in
by anybody.
Right? Okay. If they don't want it because they don't like the
manager. They don't like one of us. Okay, understandable. But
anybody, whether academic or normal person, how do you get that
balance because a lot of academic books, they just so high in the
expressions that it's almost too exclusive, and is very excluding
and then you have some of the very simple kinds of simpleton books,
which people don't enjoy sometimes. Right? So how do you
strike that balance of having quality in every aspect, design
typesetting editing, presentation, make it palatable, welcoming,
attractive? It took a very long time for that. Right? It took a
very long time, but Alhamdulillah Alhamdulillah I would say thanks
to Allah, people are appreciating it. Right? And people are
appreciating
They appreciate a good book. And I think people do trust it that if
there's a book from white thread, they should be able to trust that
book. So that's the story of the publishing. It's really what gets
me out of bed in the morning, I think, although actually teach
first thing in the morning, but yeah, that's what it was.
From all of your publications, which book or books would you
recommend to our listeners to maybe start off with from the
widespread collection?
I think
I'd give them the website and say pick your pick your pick, but if
you're married, or if you're, if you're not married, or if you are
getting married, or recently married, or even half your way
through the marriage, which is very important because then you
will have children to get married. I think that is because we can
stop in sha Allah, we can prevent so much misery from taking this I
think that would be very, very important. The second book that I
would mention is probably the Imam Hassan is beginning of guidance
that I edited and revised. That's an amazing book for somebody just
to understand what life is all about, and what human beings
purpose is in this world, and what the accurate is and how to imbibe
ourselves and make ourselves as a better human being. That's why
Imam Ghazali it's a translation which I managed to revised and and
edited. I would put those two out and I mean, I could
I really enjoyed reading from why Fed was the thinking Person's
Guide to Islam. Yeah, but that's not a book I have written right.
So I thought you might ask what I wrote that we published and we we
worked on and proofread and edited. But yeah, that is an
amazing book for anybody who I've benefited from it even though I've
been studying Islam for all of these years, I've benefited
because mashallah principality the author is amazing in number one,
his story is a philosopher anyway, and he's a very religious person.
So the way he explains things, and he's, I think it's probably one of
the best current day modern contemporary books on Islam, with
the turkey subreddit and hugely benefited from it, sorry, hugely
praised it. And any place that he edited and suggested changes,
principles he took, right because the principles he is mashallah
just a very open, very, very decent person in that sense,
Mashallah. And so, yeah, that's an amazing book, you know, and
especially if you've got friends and you want to talk to him about
Islam, you need to read this book. It just even if you don't have non
Muslim friends, it's beneficial just to put in person what your
Islam is.
Right? Yes, of course, yes, definitely an amazing book and
highly recommend it to all of our listeners to get a copy of the
thinking Person's Guide to Islam, to share with your friends and
family and even non Muslim friends, or even family members.
Insha Allah, I just want to give credit, credit credit here to
wrath, who is who is basically we did this together, right? And they
deserve as much praise, if not more, actually, for for for this
terasse Publishing, we work very, very close together, right? We're
just different companies like technically, but we work very
close together, right? And may Allah bless her off and take you
from strength to strength. So there's another book that we've
also published together by Prince Losey. So if you're going to get
this book, The thinking Person's Guide to Islam, you should also
get thinking person engaged to our times, that really gives an
understanding of where we are right now and where we where we
may be going. Because this mashallah the author has a great
foresight and insight and is very prudent individual. So get those
two books, inshallah we actually did invite Brother, they are here
onto the show. But however, he is slightly engaged in Sharla. Maybe
another time, we can have any more than we can talk about, and turn
off publishing to insha. Allah, He was actually with me just before
just just before the he came here. If you told me, I would have kept
him here, and we could have had a good discussion, he said he was a
bit shy in front of you move this out?
He can't be shown Shala. So what's this I've just a closed off, could
you direct our listeners to where they can find more about your work
if they want to have a look more into the work you're doing? I
think simple. I mean, is, as I explained, zum zum academy.com
That's for lectures and everything, you'll find lots of
inshallah stuff on there. And you can feed back to us if there's
some subjects which are missing there. Because one of the things
that I tried to do is remember trying to find a gap. So if
there's a subject that's not been covered sufficiently I tried to
deal with even if it's a complex one, I tried to dumb it down.
Right. So I think one of our flagship lectures on there is
about what you call it. It's about destiny, trying to make sense of
predestination decree, everything being written, but what's
happening in our life, and it's called Don't be depressed you
don't know your future, I would really suggest people listen to
that. Currently, we're doing a 30 day Ramadan series on the all the
sciences of the Quran, right, that happens at 530 to 615 45 minutes
every day. And the second thing I'd say is go to white thread.org.
That then takes you to all the rest of our sites which is
Is the menstrual matters for the sisters the fatwa center, the
white thread Institute for the scholars and, and then white
thread press, which is the business, the books that is the
publishing company white thread press.com By the way that started,
I would say now, about 18 years ago. It's much older than white
thread Institute but the reason for white thread is because it's
the white thread of dawn. It's a Quranic word Allah says, so eat
and drink a cooler vegetable had Dieter Bay and unlockable hiatal
abbiamo mineral hiatal is where the mineral Fudger eat and drink
until you see the white thread of dawn. So the concept of dawn a
brighter future, you know, the the rise and the light in the morning.
That's where the concept of white thread it's a very mainstream name
like White Chapel, right? So if you're not going to pigeon holding
something, it's a very elegant name. It's got a Quranic basis and
a juridical basis as well. So I think it works. I think it works
for both. May Allah bless you keep us in your doors. The only way we
can work as we get to ask some people mashallah we receive a lot
of prayers from people who benefits, we'd love to receive
more of your prayers, and again, suggestions and benefits. And if
we made a mistake, we'd love to hear your corrections, we can all
make mistakes. So we'd love to hear anything that you might find,
as a question, you can send it to us as well. And may Allah bless
you all to Sokoloff here for this opportunity, right? Just talk
about fear for this opportunity while fasting. I mean, you like a
lot of herunter you have this app for joining us today. We've really
benefited from hearing about your various project today. May Allah
subhanaw taala continue to bless you and all of the work that you
are involved in and we asked you to also remember us in your two
hours in sha Allah during this noble month of Ramadan
would you like to just give some final words to our listeners
before we close off? I mean, all I'm going to say is just here for
the opportunity from this Ramadan radio. Allah bless you guys Allah
take you from strength to strengthen allow this to be the
means of huge guidance and widespread guidance insha Allah
and protect you. For our listeners. It is o'clock here for
listening. I would say this is Ramadan and there is absolutely no
time to waste and Ramadan but the best way to get the best out of
your Ramadan is to schedule it. Number one schedule number two
compare we don't want to just do the same Ramadan we did the last
10 years we want this Ramadan to be better than any Ramadan before
it so number one we make dua Oh Allah, make this Ramadan better
than any Ramadan before it make us closer to you than we've ever been
before. And above all, allow us to stay close to you after Ramadan as
well, which is the most important keep this door up. And number two,
just see what you did last year last few years and just schedule
even more if you've given some charity give more charity this
year. If you've prayed this much Quran do more if you've done this
question, reflect more on the Quran, and so on and so forth. So
may Allah accept and remove this pandemic from us. God bless you
all and we'll see you somewhere on zamzam academy or Rayyan.
Institute. com sign up for one of the courses there or through one
of our books in sha Allah just like Allahu Allah Salam aleikum.
wa rahmatullah wa barakato.
Respected isn't it that we haven't we've heard from both the man and
hamdulillah please do join us again next week at the same time,
where we will be joined by Chef Omar hijab of ERC and youth
development where we will be discussing his various efforts,
particularly related to the youth in London. Until next time,
Assalamu alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh
Jazak Allah here for listening May Allah subhanho wa Taala bless you
and if you're finding this useful, you know
as they say to that like button and subscribe button and forwarded
on to others, just like Aloha salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa
barakato.