Abdal Hakim Murad – Music in the Islamic Tradition

Abdal Hakim Murad
AI: Summary ©
The theory that humans are more aware of certain sounds than their surroundings affects their mental health and behavior. The history and clinical benefits of classical music therapy for mental disorders, including its ability to improve breathing and socializing, are discussed. The artistry of Islamic music is difficult for Westerners due to cultural and political implications, but the "mood" and "monic button" of the brain and body are important drivers of emotions. The use of instrumental music in various ways, including religious practices, political events, and political parties, is discussed, along with its use in various ways for various purposes, including religious practices and political events.
AI: Transcript ©
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Cambridge Muslim college training the next generation of Muslim

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thinkers Smilla hamdu lillah wa salatu salam ala Rasulillah. He

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was off Biggie, Manuela.

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It's a rather subtle, difficult, often unsatisfying, kind of

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subject, not least because it's one of those sort of issues. Work

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Muslims get kind of agitated and jumpy very quickly, be interesting

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to actually make a list of those subjects where somebody only has

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to press a button and everybody starts jumping up and down, saying

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halal or haram or whatever.

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Hijab issues, gender interaction issues are a famous one. And this

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seems to be another for whatever reason, even though it's kind of

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historically and got Aniki, yonder sort of outer edge really, of what

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is actually explicitly treated, and also

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surrounded by a good deal of classical discussions that were

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not resolved in the classical period and unlikely to be resolved

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by our lesser selves. But if we're looking more generally at the

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question of sound,

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there are certain things that we can say where we can perhaps make

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some progress without getting into the minutiae of the

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sound is

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the sense whereby revelation first reaches us. The Quran is a book, a

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Kitab. But the Quran was about that one of the five senses that

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is to do with the ears, it's oral, and the production of a sound

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which is only perceived by people who can hear that is the modality

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of communication human subjects engaging with each other in

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creation, which has been chosen preferentially to be the level on

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which

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the elemental principle of the Divine speech operates. Revelation

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as a heard text.

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That means that we are dealing with a human faculty which is to

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do with

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hearing depth, and engaging even with the infinite because when we

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hear the divine speech, we are hearing something that is treated

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with all of these theological paradoxes about the uncreated

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antiquity of the word

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as to how can men or Rachmaninoff do that on Kadima terms, if at all

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now, Sophie bill paid me

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verses from the merciful which are renewed but which are ancient

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whose ancient ness is the quality of he who is ancient. So when we

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hear the sound, and the letters and the cadences, and the

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syncopations of the book,

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what we are hearing is something that predates hearing itself. So

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already, there is something about this that is mysterious,

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paradoxical, hard to figure out, but whose impact is profound and

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music, using the word in the largest sense, anything beautiful

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that we like to hear, partakes of that. Scientists argue about it.

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Psychologists argue about it. It's not just the football hat.

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Everybody is not sure what is going on here.

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Why is it that when human beings not really very much animals, or

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anything else, as far as we can tell, but human beings listen to

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certain types of sounds, certain measurable neurological and

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physiological and behavioral consequences tend to occur? When

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we listen to other kinds of sounds, we get other sorts of

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responses that are often the opposite.

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What is it about sounds that can have this profound effect on us,

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that affect us more immediately than say, seeing certain things

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or, or touching certain things. Sound is something that the air is

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a deep part of us. What is happening here and that the

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neuroscientists have tried hard to figure this out the octave, for

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instance, that kind of mystery, and they think they may have

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understood it, but perhaps they don't. Why is it that when you

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have

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middle C and then you go up to the sea above it, every culture in the

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world recognizes that those two notes are different, but the same?

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So if you go up to the D people are less happy? It's not an

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octave, something else is happening. Why is that? What's the

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nature of the octave? Why should the human brain the human ear be

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attuned to that there's such a fundamental basic thing in Chinese

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music, Indian music, Islamic music, Western music is something

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that's in us it's not just a product of culture. Why should

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that be?

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The

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answer not sure. But they're doing some interesting work now, with

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various sophisticated

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electric resonance scanners so forth, they can see things

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happening in the brain when certain sorts of sounds are

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produced.

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And we don't quite know how that works, just we don't quite know

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why a certain cadence is considered to be harmonic was

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other cadences or not. So if you have the first and the third, and

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the fifth note of an octave, or major octave, it makes a nice

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harmony. If you have say, first and a minor third, and then a

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fifth becomes something that can shock us. And a lot of modern

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music is exploiting that, because it's interested in us exploring

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why we are shocked by certain particular sounds not a very

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pleasant experience, listen to a lot of it, but it is challenging

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us to think about why we have this assumption about the nature of

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beauty and certain symmetries. And the study of that goes back almost

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as far as the study of anything, the ancient Greeks were very

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interested in music, they had musical instruments, they had

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voices. Greek drama, which was their principal cultural

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production was essentially like an operatic performance with lots of

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choruses, it was

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musical, and we have an awareness of some of the modes that they use

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the Dorian mode, the MixoLydian mode, some of which have the

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cognates. Moving on into the modes of Islamic music, and even Plato

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and others were thinking about Pythagoras, why is it that some of

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these modes have a particular effect on us.

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And of course, they couldn't really work it out. But in ancient

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times of particularly, Pythagoras thought that it was because within

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us, there is the capacity to resonate with things that are

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intrinsic in the universe that are part of the mathematics and the

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geometry of the of the universe. So the idea that the celestial

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spheres actually make a particular sound or hit a particular note, as

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they glide along the music of the spheres, something that came into

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medieval

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Christian theology as well, very often Peter, was was sure of this.

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So the idea that harmony and our resonance with certain intervals,

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certain possibilities, is best. laned, in terms of it resonating

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with the musical instrument, that is creation itself, is something

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that

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has a very long history. And that goes into the Islamic discussions

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with Alfa Robbie and his great book of, of music and is

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developed.

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So it's something human beings have always been interested in.

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And we still can't quite explain it.

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But still, it is. So it has such a significant impact, that music

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therapy is now a big thing that you can get on the NHS and all the

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major hospitals will offer things for a wide range of complaints. If

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you look at any big medical website, and you look up music

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therapy, you'll see that's almost everything is covered by forms of

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music therapy, which are known to have positive clinical outcomes,

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otherwise, the NHS wouldn't pay for it. If it was useless to

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somebody listening to music, they're not going to pay for that

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it has a clinical outcome. And we all think, well, it's probably

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mental illnesses. That is true. Because for certain forms of

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schizophrenia are routinely treated with music therapy. Now,

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sometimes forms of chronic depression are treated with music,

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major hospitals will have people who work through people with

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music, instruments and rhythms sometimes

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it just we don't quite know why it works. But we can see that it does

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work. And a lot of

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mental health care actually uses therapists whose actual mode of

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operation is not really understood, but since it works, we

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go with it because the brain consciousness is such a subtle,

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difficult thing. We're really in the infancy of neuroscience still.

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So mental health issues for sure, demonstratively.

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Certain types of music, release endorphins in the brain, reduce

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anxieties, give people a sense of serenity. Everybody knows that

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certain types of music, certain harmonies help us to chill, who

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doesn't know that? And in certain focused scientific ways this is

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effective in treating certain forms of mental illness. Obsessive

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Compulsive Disorder sometimes can can be usefully treated with music

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therapy,

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certain allergies, even

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also,

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heart disease. It's been shown that the pulse is regularized by

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music and it also the blood pressure is lowered amongst people

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who are listening to music

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Why exactly how were for again, the scientists aren't there yet,

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but it's so demonstrable in clinical trials that it is

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regularly, regularly used. So we know this, and Islamic

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civilization has already known that for a very long time, if

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you've ever been to, for instance, the town of Edina, in Turkey,

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which was the big Hadith city of the Ottoman Empire, great follow

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on that there.

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Near the data of Hadith, there's also the hospital for treating

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mental patients with music therapy. And they've turned it

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into a nice kind of museum now. And you can see they have these

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rather sort of awkward looking waxworks, Turkish outfits and

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droopy mustaches. And it's not terribly well done. But you get a

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sense of how the building was used, that patient would be

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brought out by the physician, and the symptoms would be read out.

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And the musicians would play something that was believed to be

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beneficial. And there's a famous one in Damascus as part of

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classical Islamic civilization. And that still is alive, you can

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go to Istanbul and you can buy CDs of

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music that is used in the treatment of mental disorders,

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it's still a living tradition. And the Turks have other things to do

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with rhythms as well and to do with

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the the beat of a horse's hooves, which is a very ancient therapy

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that they have from pre Islamic times, that they believe that

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somebody with a mental disorder can be helped by the rhythm of

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riding on a horse of a particular kind. And that, again, is

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something that is still available in certain corners of Turkey. So

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Turkey, in a strange way, very modernized, but still has retained

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a lot of these things quite well. So we have these ancient things

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that do seem to have some contemporary clinical benefit. And

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in terms of singing, singing of all of the forms of quote unquote

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music or recitation is thought to have particular benefits. So for

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instance, forms of asthma are often dealt with, by training

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people's voices in a kind of to sing. Because it affects the

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larynx, it affects the vocal cords, it opens up certain things

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that may have been twisted or disoriented, speaking, very

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unscientifically here, but by certain modern urban habits, diet,

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things in the air, dust mites, whatever it might be, that the

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regular practice of singing,

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actually does seem to have some demonstrable clinical benefit in

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cases of asthma, and so on. And this is not very surprising,

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because these are very ancient practices, singing, some

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anthropologists paleontologists will say actually singing is

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before speech for human beings. Very, very ancient, secular view,

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of course, but it's the speculation that they offer it

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something elemental. Human beings have always sung, there is no

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culture ever known. Monks, human beings where there haven't been

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traditions of getting together around the campfire, and singing

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together reciting the heroism of one's ancestors, talking about God

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or the gods, and collectively celebrating is something very

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antique, and therefore something that's natural to the species and

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therefore has positive health outcomes. Nowadays, because of

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electricity, and CDs, and

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iPods and AI players and the rest of it, we tend to be passive in

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our consumption of music. And historically, that was not the

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case. Historically, people generally were generators have

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their own music. And this helped to bond families, to bond

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neighborhoods to bond church communities to bond or different

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religious communities through the human sharing that comes about by

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jointly making a sound. It's a little bit like sharing a meal

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together, you're doing something bodily. And as it were, the

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breaths commingle and everybody has to be on the same page. And

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it's always been in Elizabethan England. It was what you did when

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you went to visit somebody, you bring along sheet music. And it

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was specially printed. So one sheet of paper for four people, it

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was expensive, could be put on a table. And people could read it

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wherever they were on the table with different parts. And they

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were really good because they didn't have DVDs. It didn't have

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iTunes, passwords. It was just their own music. And because it

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was what they will often it's thought really good. And it was a

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major form of cultural production, which nowadays we've lost. Most of

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us didn't really like other people listening to us singing, we do it

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kind of quietly in front of the shaving mirror or something

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because we're not good at it. We're not trained, but

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historically, human communities would sing and would sing well,

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and very few people are naturally tone deaf. Occasionally people

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just can't hit a note. That's maybe one in 100 people. Usually

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if people don't sing well

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because they've lost a certain knack of listening to others and

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the individualism, the self centeredness of modernity tends to

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make us less good at listening to subtler things of what's going on

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in environment. And the fact that so many sounds going on

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simultaneously in the modern world doesn't help either. In a

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traditional society that there might be a donkey could have

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somewhere around the corner and one's wife might be shrieking at

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the children might be a few recognizable sounds. But the

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modern city, which has a real cacophony of 1000s of cars, and

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sirens, and other stuff, is something that seems to be

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blunting our capacity to recognize pitch. So people nowadays are not

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so good at singing as they used to, and of course, with the

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secularization of society. They didn't learn the carols, they

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didn't learn the hymns. And

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we're kind of passive in our consumption of music. Partly also

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because people can make money out of us being passive, whereas if

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regenerating it ourselves, kind of capitalistic system isn't quite so

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good at making money out of that. So there's something about

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modernity that makes us passive consumers of music rather than

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active producers of it. So what what is fairly evident is that the

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production of music and beautiful sounds and singing in particular

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is as old as human beings and is also something that particularly

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important in religion, I

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don't think there's a single religion that hasn't cultivated

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the beauty of of sound. The Holy Prophet alayhi salatu salam said

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to one of his companions, who was beautifully has a beautiful voice

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reciting Quran, locket Ott, Ms. Martin, meanness, Amir Ali, the

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old you've been given one of the pipes of David because according

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to the biblical text, David played pipes and danced in front of the

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Ark of the Covenant nuts in the story, but we have this idea of

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beauty in Quranic recitation being important has seen or God enemy

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also article, make the Quran more beautiful through your your

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voices. And this is something that everybody's experienced, if you're

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in the mosque to interact with, and the Imam with a lot of short,

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who knows the McCombs and knows the MaHA Raj and desanding

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Beautiful, it's an amazing experience and this beautiful

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thing on the planet. But if he's kind of got a smoker's cough, and

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he's kind of always not semitone off the right note, at the end of

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each verse, you just kind of you go through, it's a completely

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different experience. The actual sound, if it was scanned by

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computer might seem very similar. But the human soul can tell that

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there's a world of difference between a beautiful Ted read and

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an ugly Ted read and clearly, the data requires that we present the

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beauty of the text with with beauty.

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So none of that is particularly

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controversial. But in Islamic civilization, then the awareness

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that music is an axiom, and the Quran is itself musical

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is not something that anybody's contested. Nobody said you have to

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recite the Quran in an ugly way. Although sometimes certain

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Puritans are anxious about certain very elaborate forms of the Avant,

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for instance,

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a friend of mine was at Islamic University of Medina once and the

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normal was in he said, at the University mosque, had emphysema

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and a really terrible crack, horrible voice. So every time you

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get this kind of crackling, and this nightmare sound would assail

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your ears. That went on for years. And then one day that guy was ill,

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and one of the African students did it instead. And it was

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beautiful. And the Mufti of Saudi Arabia was there at the time and

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asked to see this point. Don't ever do that again. ever do that,

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again. Because their tradition in nudged is that Amazon is listen to

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Saudi Arabia from Riyadh is a long one.

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That's what they do. And the Maliki tradition also, to be fair,

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has real reservations about a very ornamented, as on the golden mean,

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is what is is required. But in many parts of the Islamic world,

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you find that the Amazon is itself an art form.

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With different McCombs being used at different times of day, and

00:19:23 --> 00:19:26

they really know their stuff. traditionally trained Egyptians or

00:19:26 --> 00:19:30

Turks or Bosnians, Indonesians they know this, it's, it's

00:19:30 --> 00:19:34

something that maybe hundreds of people are going to hear. And if

00:19:34 --> 00:19:38

it really is beautiful and gets into their soul, it's going to

00:19:38 --> 00:19:41

make it more likely for them to come to the masjid. We really

00:19:41 --> 00:19:41

will.

00:19:42 --> 00:19:47

Now Islamic music. I mentioned that Greek music has them has the

00:19:47 --> 00:19:52

modes, a few basic modes, the Phrygian mode. Also, we didn't

00:19:52 --> 00:19:55

know too much about how that worked. Although some modern

00:19:55 --> 00:19:58

musicologist have reconstructed what ancient Greek music sounded

00:19:58 --> 00:19:59

like pentatonic scale and said

00:20:00 --> 00:20:00

In

00:20:01 --> 00:20:06

the liar that they had, and also a pipe with with to two pipes, and

00:20:06 --> 00:20:08

we can kind of reconstruct what it sounded like.

00:20:10 --> 00:20:16

But one of the features of Islamic music, including Tajweed, is that

00:20:16 --> 00:20:19

gigantic multiplication of the modes,

00:20:21 --> 00:20:25

which become the principal form of, of aesthetic expression in the

00:20:25 --> 00:20:28

oral dimension of Islamic civilization that everybody had to

00:20:28 --> 00:20:32

know, the modes. I remember when I was living in Cairo.

00:20:33 --> 00:20:34

The great

00:20:36 --> 00:20:39

there are certain great opportunities for the Buddha with

00:20:39 --> 00:20:44

the Quran reciter really to in trance and intoxicate his audience

00:20:44 --> 00:20:47

and make them cry. The really good ones were really good, even though

00:20:47 --> 00:20:51

the microphones Oh, my God. Just as an aside,

00:20:52 --> 00:20:57

the Ministry of Alkaff at the time said, all the mosques have to have

00:20:57 --> 00:21:00

microphones and sound systems, what's the cheapest microphone in

00:21:00 --> 00:21:04

the world. And they found the system that is used on Russian

00:21:04 --> 00:21:04

Railways.

00:21:06 --> 00:21:09

That's the cheapest and of course, also, it sounds the cheapest. So

00:21:09 --> 00:21:13

every mosque in Egypt has one of these clunky things. And actually,

00:21:14 --> 00:21:17

in those masks, there's a little button on those things, which I've

00:21:17 --> 00:21:20

seen and if you press the button, it goes ding dong. This is to

00:21:20 --> 00:21:21

announce the next train.

00:21:24 --> 00:21:27

So that is really a problem because the zarnas Beautiful,

00:21:27 --> 00:21:30

subtle thing has been really coarsened and reduced by the poor

00:21:30 --> 00:21:34

quality of the sound system. Anyway, great experience in Cairo.

00:21:34 --> 00:21:38

They still do it is at the tomb of the mosque of Imam Shafi.

00:21:38 --> 00:21:42

Rahmatullahi Ali, before the khutbah there is the best most

00:21:42 --> 00:21:46

popular recite in Egypt, who is there for about an hour doing his

00:21:46 --> 00:21:47

stuff.

00:21:48 --> 00:21:51

And because this is for connoisseurs, people go along, and

00:21:51 --> 00:21:55

they really know what he's doing. And they know the McCombs, and

00:21:55 --> 00:21:59

it's very interactive. So people have Allahu Akbar, Allah after

00:21:59 --> 00:22:03

Halleck, at the end of each verses quite noisy, and the reciter can

00:22:03 --> 00:22:06

see what's working, what's not working, and which way he's going

00:22:06 --> 00:22:12

to go next. And then they'll call out asking for a MACOM. So they

00:22:12 --> 00:22:15

always begin with more calm so that then if he goes into mcbomb,

00:22:15 --> 00:22:18

court, or more commonly heaven, they'll say, give us some court or

00:22:18 --> 00:22:22

give us some hijas. And he'll often respond. And it's a very

00:22:22 --> 00:22:28

interactive kind of experience. Because that is the essence of, of

00:22:28 --> 00:22:32

Islamic musical civilization and lock arms. Not so much tune,

00:22:33 --> 00:22:37

although it's their rhythm is another whole world, which is much

00:22:37 --> 00:22:39

more developed in Islamic music than in western music. Because you

00:22:39 --> 00:22:44

have strange things like nine beats in a bar, and bars that go

00:22:44 --> 00:22:49

on for 31 beats and things that Mozart would have been driven up

00:22:49 --> 00:22:54

the wall by s3 for time or for for time or common time. It's western

00:22:54 --> 00:22:54

music is

00:22:55 --> 00:22:59

rhythmically pretty simple by comparison with what the Turks and

00:22:59 --> 00:23:03

the Indians and others were doing. But far more subtle than that is

00:23:03 --> 00:23:05

the modal system,

00:23:06 --> 00:23:08

which is one of the great achievements of Islamic

00:23:08 --> 00:23:12

civilization. Most of the modes which they use are actually

00:23:12 --> 00:23:15

derived by Muslims in the medieval period.

00:23:16 --> 00:23:20

I admit this, this guy came to me recently said, my shake says, the

00:23:20 --> 00:23:21

Muslims are haram.

00:23:24 --> 00:23:28

The Ottoman Empire for 600 years. Nobody ever thought the Muslims

00:23:28 --> 00:23:32

were haram. And somehow great. I found something new to make haram.

00:23:33 --> 00:23:36

Is this the amendment mindset? Some people have, you know, all

00:23:36 --> 00:23:39

those Allamah that were listening to that they were wrong? I know,

00:23:39 --> 00:23:43

I've heard. I said, even the McCombs that were composed by

00:23:43 --> 00:23:48

Allah, Matt. I gave him some examples. And he kind of didn't

00:23:48 --> 00:23:51

think he really believed it was just kind of trying it out. It was

00:23:51 --> 00:23:56

shocking. Nothing, no delievered possibly that could challenge the

00:23:56 --> 00:23:59

fact of the McCombs system which one of the masterpieces, the

00:23:59 --> 00:24:03

uncontroversial masterpiece achievements of our civilization.

00:24:04 --> 00:24:11

But the McCombs, as you will know, are about the intervals between

00:24:11 --> 00:24:14

the different pitches in the octave. And whereas in western

00:24:14 --> 00:24:18

music, you've got eight notes in an octave 12 semitones in an

00:24:18 --> 00:24:22

octave. And that's it. That's all that's allowed, except in modern

00:24:22 --> 00:24:24

music that does eternal things.

00:24:26 --> 00:24:31

If you listen to Stockhausen's sort of modern Concerto for a

00:24:31 --> 00:24:34

violin and for helicopters, for instance, he doesn't stick with

00:24:34 --> 00:24:38

the octaves, it's cacophonic stuff that they like nowadays, but

00:24:38 --> 00:24:42

Islamic music doesn't use the conventional divisions, equal

00:24:42 --> 00:24:45

pitches in an octave, but far more subtle things because it says

00:24:45 --> 00:24:48

between B and B flat, there's something else going on.

00:24:49 --> 00:24:52

And it may not even be halfway between the B and the B flat a

00:24:52 --> 00:24:56

quarter turn. So that's part of the artistry of Islamic musical

00:24:56 --> 00:24:59

civilization is that it isn't restricted to the

00:25:00 --> 00:25:04

The strict rules of 12 quarter turns the octave. But it has all

00:25:04 --> 00:25:07

kinds of complex things like one MK arm where you've got 17

00:25:07 --> 00:25:11

intervals going up, and a 16 coming down. And you really have

00:25:11 --> 00:25:14

to listen very carefully or be brought up in one of those

00:25:14 --> 00:25:17

civilizations where people just are familiar with that kind of

00:25:17 --> 00:25:20

music, really to understand it. And Islamic music is quite

00:25:20 --> 00:25:24

difficult for a lot of Westerners really to, to hear because they're

00:25:24 --> 00:25:29

waiting for the kind of 12341234 and under kind of trumpet comes in

00:25:29 --> 00:25:34

and it's it's a bit simple, great, Beethoven great, but still simple

00:25:34 --> 00:25:39

compared to the basic assumptions and methods of Islamic music,

00:25:39 --> 00:25:43

which is much more subtle and has much more room for improvisation

00:25:43 --> 00:25:46

and, and, and exploration.

00:25:47 --> 00:25:52

That it's, it's hard to get the point of that. If you're not used

00:25:52 --> 00:25:56

to a note that's between the B and the B flat, it just sounds like

00:25:57 --> 00:26:01

the singer is out of tune. It's a different way of experiencing

00:26:01 --> 00:26:06

music. But it's actually common in some of the Celtic fringes. So the

00:26:06 --> 00:26:10

traditional Hebridean, and Shetland music in England, for

00:26:10 --> 00:26:11

instance, he has a lot of quarter turns.

00:26:12 --> 00:26:15

Indian music, which historically has interacted a lot with Islamic

00:26:15 --> 00:26:19

music because the great musicians of India, very often they were

00:26:19 --> 00:26:22

Muslims, and still the case met in many ways.

00:26:23 --> 00:26:28

Muslims were the masters, and that, but there's indigenous Indic

00:26:28 --> 00:26:32

Traditions of music that are distinct, but they're also a

00:26:32 --> 00:26:36

modal. And they have all kinds of rules like, what mode? What raga

00:26:36 --> 00:26:41

Do you play at what time of the year, or for what kind of occasion

00:26:41 --> 00:26:42

or what time of day

00:26:43 --> 00:26:47

because the the music and the mood has to be very subtly calibrated

00:26:47 --> 00:26:51

to the spiritual atmosphere that prevails with the audience at that

00:26:51 --> 00:26:54

particular time. It's a very subtle thing. You can see why it's

00:26:54 --> 00:26:58

often used medicinally. And in the Islamic world, also, these, these

00:26:58 --> 00:27:02

dozens of McCombs, which became really hundreds of McCombs,

00:27:02 --> 00:27:06

particularly at the hands of the Ottoman Turks became a whole

00:27:06 --> 00:27:09

universe of quite rarefied and often quite difficult.

00:27:11 --> 00:27:12

Difficult,

00:27:13 --> 00:27:17

inaccessible elite music sometimes because most of the Muslims are

00:27:17 --> 00:27:19

not used for something like Tajweed for instance,

00:27:21 --> 00:27:25

such weed might use about 15 McCombs maximum. So if you go for

00:27:25 --> 00:27:28

instance, to the 30th mosque in Istanbul for your tearaway

00:27:31 --> 00:27:34

after the a shirt, the silhouette and so forth, then the first two

00:27:34 --> 00:27:37

records will be in a particular McCollum. And again, they usually

00:27:37 --> 00:27:43

start with MACOM Saba, or the Lumina shape on Raji interval, and

00:27:43 --> 00:27:48

that's how it starts. And then after two right guys, there'll be

00:27:48 --> 00:27:52

a tsp of a Tim G, and then another two rockers, and then there'll be

00:27:52 --> 00:27:56

an Ilahi in a different MACOM. There'll be a group of men who are

00:27:56 --> 00:28:00

singing and a different column and then the next four rockers of the

00:28:00 --> 00:28:03

tearaway will be in that no calm and it will go that usually not

00:28:03 --> 00:28:06

always, I think, usually to more calm so that according to this,

00:28:06 --> 00:28:08

this, this traditional progression.

00:28:09 --> 00:28:13

But they weren't use some of the very rarefied things that were

00:28:13 --> 00:28:17

used for Ottoman court music, that sort of private soirees. It's

00:28:17 --> 00:28:21

those aren't usually used for Tajweed. It's not haram, it's just

00:28:21 --> 00:28:25

not not customary to make people think this sounds a bit new or

00:28:25 --> 00:28:29

strange when they really should be concentrating on the sound of the

00:28:29 --> 00:28:29

Quran.

00:28:32 --> 00:28:36

the subtlest question then is, if we know, and the neurologists tell

00:28:36 --> 00:28:40

us that music has an effect on the brainwaves and an effect on the

00:28:40 --> 00:28:42

physiology and something deep that goes within us?

00:28:44 --> 00:28:46

Can we look at each MACOM and say,

00:28:47 --> 00:28:52

This MACOM produces this kind of mood? And this knock on suppresses

00:28:52 --> 00:28:54

that kind of mood? And historically, the Muslims have

00:28:54 --> 00:29:00

said, Yes. So farabi, who wrote the first big book of music, in

00:29:00 --> 00:29:04

our civilization, early Arabic philosopher, famous lutenist as

00:29:04 --> 00:29:04

well.

00:29:05 --> 00:29:09

The story goes that with his loot, he could make an audience laugh.

00:29:10 --> 00:29:13

Or he could make an audience cry, just to the going through the

00:29:13 --> 00:29:14

McCombs.

00:29:15 --> 00:29:20

So there is a theory in our civilization that identifies

00:29:20 --> 00:29:24

particular McCombs with a particular mood, which is why some

00:29:24 --> 00:29:27

of us funerals, for instance, and others, weddings are obvious

00:29:27 --> 00:29:31

things, but there's more subtle, more subtle things as well. And

00:29:31 --> 00:29:36

what happens on the sort of subtle liminal level when a Greek

00:29:36 --> 00:29:39

practitioner of Tajweed or Salawat, or moulage, is taking

00:29:39 --> 00:29:45

people up through the McCombs in a particular order, at a particular

00:29:45 --> 00:29:49

time of day, when it's raining or when it's not raining or the other

00:29:49 --> 00:29:52

things that are affecting the psychic environment of the people

00:29:52 --> 00:29:56

and then taking them back down again. It's probably beyond words

00:29:56 --> 00:29:59

as music is anyway, but those who are in that environment

00:30:00 --> 00:30:04

Particularly those who are really familiar with the tradition. for

00:30:04 --> 00:30:08

them. It's a finer, deeper, more amazing experience than listening

00:30:08 --> 00:30:12

to Dame Curie at the London Coliseum belting out verde. It's

00:30:12 --> 00:30:14

something that is deep.

00:30:15 --> 00:30:20

So we know that we have this amazing civilization in Islam at

00:30:20 --> 00:30:24

the question of instrumental music. I didn't really want to get

00:30:24 --> 00:30:29

into the fifth house yet. And I mentioned that this is a kind of

00:30:29 --> 00:30:32

panic button issue for a lot of Muslims.

00:30:34 --> 00:30:40

It is the consensus of the fourth Sunday schools that instrumental

00:30:40 --> 00:30:46

music which they argue over the exact definition of it, is haram.

00:30:46 --> 00:30:48

That's the normal view.

00:30:49 --> 00:30:52

But if you start to go looking, if you're interested in minority

00:30:52 --> 00:30:55

views, safest thing in Islam, as always stick to what seems to be

00:30:55 --> 00:31:01

the conceptual view. And even ideal Kilbirnie really unexpected

00:31:01 --> 00:31:06

voice, you know, who are the loco Banias? Is this big, sort of Saudi

00:31:06 --> 00:31:11

preacher, Salafi, who has sometimes unusual uncontroversial

00:31:11 --> 00:31:14

views, and sometimes he's leading the prayer in Makkah, and then

00:31:14 --> 00:31:18

sometimes he says something and they find somebody else is kind of

00:31:18 --> 00:31:22

thinks for himself. He's the one who last year did the famous tweet

00:31:22 --> 00:31:25

about ISIS. You may recall that even got into the English press,

00:31:26 --> 00:31:29

saying we have to admit to the ISIS comes from our own Salafi

00:31:29 --> 00:31:33

Aqeedah. And that was a huge thing in Saudi Arabia, and people have

00:31:33 --> 00:31:37

nothing to do with us. This is what he said his tweet and then he

00:31:37 --> 00:31:41

went on Saudi television to explain, we generated them. But

00:31:41 --> 00:31:44

the other controversies got himself involved was about six

00:31:44 --> 00:31:49

years ago, when he really went in a kind of zaharie tooth comb way

00:31:49 --> 00:31:53

through all of the relevant Hadith and said that he doesn't actually

00:31:53 --> 00:31:55

think that instrumental music is haram

00:31:58 --> 00:32:01

karma to piano, everybody starts jumping up and shouting and stuff.

00:32:01 --> 00:32:05

But insofar as you can see a kind of pattern emerging on the

00:32:05 --> 00:32:10

landscape of all amount with their different positions, huge, ugly

00:32:10 --> 00:32:13

generalization, but maybe there's something in it the more you move

00:32:13 --> 00:32:17

towards the kind of archival side of the film spectrum, the Hanif

00:32:17 --> 00:32:22

is, the more people are inclined to prohibit. And the more you move

00:32:22 --> 00:32:26

towards the knuckle, or the sort of Hadith based area, the more

00:32:26 --> 00:32:28

you're going to find people who will allow it.

00:32:29 --> 00:32:33

Desire is for instance, to work more literalist than the humble is

00:32:34 --> 00:32:38

a generally allow most instrumental music so even hasm

00:32:38 --> 00:32:42

zaharie, the most literalist of all says, everything that isn't

00:32:42 --> 00:32:46

explicitly forbidden in the Quran. And the hadith is all right. And

00:32:46 --> 00:32:51

you don't have the right to do a PS or to extrapolate in any way.

00:32:51 --> 00:32:55

And if this particular type of Spanish flute is not there in a

00:32:55 --> 00:32:58

specific Hadith, and forbidden, forbidden, forbidden is not within

00:32:58 --> 00:33:03

the human powers, to say that that thing is forbidden. That's his,

00:33:03 --> 00:33:04

his well known view.

00:33:05 --> 00:33:10

And some of the some of the Maliki is also interestingly,

00:33:10 --> 00:33:15

particularly some of the rather austere original Medina Malik is

00:33:15 --> 00:33:17

will report the views from Imam Malik that he without certain

00:33:17 --> 00:33:20

types of stringed instruments and types of flute that's not the mesh

00:33:20 --> 00:33:24

or the usual view and the madhhab, which is horrible for bidding but

00:33:24 --> 00:33:27

there is that position. Now one of the also reports of some of the

00:33:27 --> 00:33:31

disciples who remember Sheffy that they would that Imam Shafi would

00:33:31 --> 00:33:35

allow certain types of instrumental music. But if you

00:33:35 --> 00:33:38

move to that kind of alkyl, and sort of meta Ed rationalizing the

00:33:38 --> 00:33:44

the Hanafis generally produced the fewest exceptions. So there's even

00:33:44 --> 00:33:49

Cassone for instance, as as long discussion, and as badass as the

00:33:49 --> 00:33:52

Hanafi forget about all the different kinds of instruments,

00:33:52 --> 00:33:55

which if somebody has been found listening to them means that he

00:33:55 --> 00:33:59

can never testify in a Sharia court, for instance, tough. That's

00:33:59 --> 00:34:01

an interesting circumstance, I don't know what we can make of it,

00:34:01 --> 00:34:05

that it's the kind of rationalizes of the folklore hat, who have

00:34:05 --> 00:34:09

inclined most of the view that it's forbidden, and literalist who

00:34:09 --> 00:34:12

tend to produce this minority that says that it's permissible.

00:34:13 --> 00:34:18

That's just just an aside. There's also of course, the reformist

00:34:18 --> 00:34:22

tendencies. So in Egypt, muhammad shah, towards Sheikh Lhasa in the

00:34:22 --> 00:34:27

1950s. So it's fine. Chef gentle Huck and early 1980s When I was

00:34:27 --> 00:34:31

living in Egypt, did a more complex fetter looking at the

00:34:31 --> 00:34:35

classical views and saying, it's not a matter of consensus, it's a

00:34:35 --> 00:34:37

matter of majority

00:34:38 --> 00:34:42

Hacohen the instrumental musics, music is not allowed. And

00:34:42 --> 00:34:46

essentially, it depends on the mock acid. In other words,

00:34:47 --> 00:34:51

if you're playing a violin in a nightclub on pyramid road, and

00:34:51 --> 00:34:54

there's some dancing going on, that's not really something that

00:34:54 --> 00:34:59

she is going to be terribly overjoyed about. But if it's in a

00:34:59 --> 00:35:00

different content

00:35:00 --> 00:35:03

ECT work doesn't lead to or isn't conventionally associated with the

00:35:03 --> 00:35:06

acceptability of corrupt practices, then it's something

00:35:06 --> 00:35:10

else. So part of the rationalizing tendency in recent times has been

00:35:10 --> 00:35:14

to link it to the mock acid. And to say, it's really about what

00:35:14 --> 00:35:18

sort of behavior music will will lead to. And you do get some odd

00:35:18 --> 00:35:22

discussions in the medieval period about certain types of pipes, they

00:35:22 --> 00:35:25

always are associated with with facade, and therefore that's why

00:35:25 --> 00:35:28

they're haram. While a pipe is just a pipe, it's not necessarily

00:35:29 --> 00:35:29

the association.

00:35:30 --> 00:35:31

Most

00:35:32 --> 00:35:35

use of called Dawei, of course, as long Fatone, which he authorizes

00:35:35 --> 00:35:38

instrumental music, so that kind of reformist school is there as

00:35:38 --> 00:35:39

well.

00:35:42 --> 00:35:48

The other issue that is interesting is what do you do with

00:35:48 --> 00:35:50

certain types of electronic music?

00:35:51 --> 00:35:56

So, for instance, if the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia has a

00:35:56 --> 00:35:58

ringtone on his phone,

00:35:59 --> 00:36:06

or if he has a doorbell that goes ding dong. Yeah, there's a serious

00:36:06 --> 00:36:10

issue. Is that music or not? What is the definition of music? If

00:36:10 --> 00:36:13

it's just Dong? Is that music? What does it have to sound like?

00:36:13 --> 00:36:16

If it sounds kind of like an electronics? Or what about a

00:36:16 --> 00:36:20

police siren? What about a fire engine? What about music in a

00:36:20 --> 00:36:24

supermarket? Where exactly is the boundary? So it's never quite

00:36:24 --> 00:36:27

clear cut. There's always areas which are confusing an electronic

00:36:27 --> 00:36:31

music, which kind of surrounds us. Every time you turn your computer

00:36:31 --> 00:36:31

on.

00:36:33 --> 00:36:34

It's my it's my new

00:36:35 --> 00:36:38

my new Mac computer, stuff for a night. It's got some kind of

00:36:38 --> 00:36:42

symphonic thing at the beginning, maybe some people are agitated by

00:36:42 --> 00:36:46

that. But that's to make this shitty a rather strange thing.

00:36:46 --> 00:36:49

It's not really there for entertainment, just press the ON

00:36:49 --> 00:36:53

button. So these are also issues. And what do you do with certain

00:36:53 --> 00:36:54

types of

00:36:55 --> 00:37:00

synthesized music that sound like music that has been generated by

00:37:00 --> 00:37:04

these putatively forbidden pipes and stringed instruments and so

00:37:04 --> 00:37:04

forth?

00:37:05 --> 00:37:08

Not easy. What do you do with a human voice that is so well

00:37:08 --> 00:37:11

trained that it can sound exactly like a violin?

00:37:12 --> 00:37:18

So a lot of gray areas. But my teachers usual preference was to

00:37:18 --> 00:37:22

err on the side of caution. And there's wisdom in that because

00:37:22 --> 00:37:25

what is unmistakably and unambiguously and unanimously

00:37:25 --> 00:37:27

Halal is the use of the human voice.

00:37:29 --> 00:37:34

And the human voice is actually the most profound and subtle and

00:37:34 --> 00:37:38

beautiful of instruments, because it's part of the gift that Allah

00:37:38 --> 00:37:42

has given us. That despite the complexity of the guitar, and the

00:37:42 --> 00:37:47

loot, and the piano and organ, it doesn't compete with the beauty of

00:37:47 --> 00:37:50

a great singer. This is part of the tech team, the honoring that's

00:37:50 --> 00:37:51

been given to Benny Adam,

00:37:53 --> 00:37:57

which means that to some extent, you can have the fullness of a

00:37:57 --> 00:38:01

musical experience without having to get into those controversies

00:38:02 --> 00:38:05

and things with harmonies and the fullness of the MACOM system. And

00:38:05 --> 00:38:08

also the sense that the human voice is coming from the human

00:38:08 --> 00:38:14

depths. Unlike the sound of a pipe or violin or the organ or chapel

00:38:14 --> 00:38:17

next door, which is something mechanical, it there's something

00:38:17 --> 00:38:23

more human about it, and hence more humanly interesting. So that

00:38:23 --> 00:38:29

is, I think, where we are at the moment in the armor, even though

00:38:29 --> 00:38:33

we're at three, sort of jumpy and paranoid time, where people are

00:38:33 --> 00:38:37

really hyperventilating about things which are profoundly

00:38:37 --> 00:38:38

nebulosity

00:38:39 --> 00:38:41

what was his book called?

00:38:42 --> 00:38:46

I can't remember but it's about some air let something visa now

00:38:46 --> 00:38:52

let us his great 17th 18th century siege of Damascus, one of the

00:38:52 --> 00:38:55

great Allamah of the Ottoman Empire with hundreds of books,

00:38:56 --> 00:39:00

very profound person who again gives you a long explanation of

00:39:00 --> 00:39:04

why the use of musical instruments if it's not connected to belly

00:39:04 --> 00:39:06

dancing industry is fine.

00:39:08 --> 00:39:12

So that does exist, those books are there, whether it's Nablus

00:39:12 --> 00:39:15

even husband, two very different life forms that have been in his

00:39:15 --> 00:39:19

there and the online but best to stay with the uncontroversial

00:39:19 --> 00:39:24

because the world is full of minds ready to be stepped on. And the

00:39:24 --> 00:39:28

human voice is handled at that the best of all, instruments and we do

00:39:28 --> 00:39:32

know now the scientists have told us collective singing releases

00:39:32 --> 00:39:36

those endorphins and gets us going and helps us to bond and is a

00:39:36 --> 00:39:41

primordial and ancient human practice and a sacred practice. So

00:39:41 --> 00:39:46

that's all I wanted to say except commercial break. We are selling

00:39:46 --> 00:39:51

some of our fine CDs and DVDs at knockdown prices only two

00:39:51 --> 00:39:57

participants in the CMC annual retreat. We have an all shariah

00:39:57 --> 00:39:57

compliant,

00:39:59 --> 00:39:59

fingers off the panic

00:40:00 --> 00:40:05

items not the violin in sight. We have the old of Bella's ng we have

00:40:05 --> 00:40:05

the

00:40:07 --> 00:40:09

see them being held up now by

00:40:10 --> 00:40:11

my assistants.

00:40:12 --> 00:40:16

There is that gleamed from the rod as a Shahadat which is mostly in

00:40:16 --> 00:40:21

English which is recycle In Celtic harmonies of the history of the

00:40:21 --> 00:40:25

island beat those Sufi songs of Andhra Lucia which is flamenco and

00:40:25 --> 00:40:29

traditional Arabic and Spanish songs from the time of the

00:40:29 --> 00:40:33

Inquisition, and those the knowledge of Imam Borras ng

00:40:33 --> 00:40:39

perhaps the best known of all knowledge recorded live in the

00:40:39 --> 00:40:41

azalea mosque in Cape Town according to some very beautiful

00:40:41 --> 00:40:44

African hominids that they use and all kinds of other goodies that

00:40:44 --> 00:40:48

you can get every penny goes to the Cambridge new mosque project.

00:40:48 --> 00:40:49

So

00:40:51 --> 00:40:55

So, that will be after this session inshallah and before thee

00:40:56 --> 00:40:57

before then the mouse

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