Abdal Hakim Murad – Hagar (as) Paradigms of Leadership

Abdal Hakim Murad
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the concept of leadership and how it shaping individual behavior. They also explore the ideal type of a woman for the Islamic culture, including her views on personal and political experiences, mental health, and the beast. legends of Abraham visiting the desert and a woman from Georgia are discussed, with legends of Abraham visiting the desert and a woman from Georgia also mentioned. The holy month is highlighted as a time of crisis, with the importance of the holy month being discussed.
AI: Transcript ©
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Smilla hamdu lillah wa salatu salam ala Rasulillah li WASAPI

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woman well up.

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We've been considering this

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ethically problematic category of leadership and smacking down the

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widespread current Muslim tendency to interpret it in managerial

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terms. From our perspective, this is something which is a charism, a

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robe of honor, which almost as part of a kingly procedure is

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vested in us from elsewhere. The prophetic individual does not seek

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prophecy. The true Monique is born to his role.

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So we began this series with deconstructing in what were

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perhaps to some slightly painful terms, this idea of the managerial

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or the psychological model of leadership and moved in the

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direction of something to do with secret charisma, a charism.

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Indeed, carried most reliably by those who have never hoped for it.

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We saw this in the context of Imam Shamil, with the conflict forced

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upon him by the fact of Russian encroachment and also in the

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context of Imam Malik, not wishing any kind of leadership and indeed

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preferring the torture chamber to obeying kala for whim.

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We're beginning to look at this current

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problem with more classically Islamic and religious eyes, yes,

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if there has to be society, there must be order, there must be

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structures, there must be a leader and there must be the lead. But

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the procedure whereby that falls naturally into place has very

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little to do with the way in which contemporary democratic politics

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works, or contemporary celebrity culture works or Contemporary

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Literary eminence or how to become the CEO of Astra Zeneca and so on,

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it's something new, different radical and godly.

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What I want to do this time around and inshallah there will be other

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attempts to look at certain individuals at an ideal type so in

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our heritage and our imaginary body forth certain ways in which

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this charism can unwillingly but rightly be assumed

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is to investigate this in the context not of imminence but of

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its opposite.

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What ya know, whom are Emerton? Yeah, don't be a marina la

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Masaharu. We made an Imams leaders guiding by Our command when they

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had summer when they had patience, endurance.

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And to be an imam in this Quranic sense, is essentially to assume an

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excellence that is inward In other words, to lead oneself to be

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master not of one's destiny. That's God's business, but at

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least to hold the reins of the wild, unruly stallion. That is the

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beast within the ego and the Amara. This is truly the ship

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or the idle week, Neff suka, Letty Boehner, Jen bake, in the Hadith

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we have to hold your worst enemy is your ego, which is between your

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two sides.

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Lead that control it subjugated trample upon it become Moses, and

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you work become Pharaoh.

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Elemental question of religious ethics, its participants subject,

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the center of just about every hotbar overcome the lower self. So

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the charism of leadership in outward structural terms, is

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rightly vested on those who don't want it because the ego is

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thoroughly under control.

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Unlike the current spectacle, in one of iress 20 individuals who

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very much are happy to be there and see themselves as leaders. The

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prophetic model is the opposite of that it is about unwillingness

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being dragged out of the halwa to assume this responsibility.

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So leadership of the self. Now this may also mean that one

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becomes as it were a symbolic leader rather than a political or

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economic or military leader.

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The figures who continue to inspire and humble us who are

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listed in Scripture may

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accidentally almost be external leaders. They may be up there

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somehow with Napoleon and the rest but that's not really the point

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and that's certainly not why scripture is citing them instead,

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they are the

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being cited as examples of individuals, men and women who

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lead themselves and as ideal types. Moses's actual political

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impact in his time is less significant than what he means for

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us the archetypes which he is representing. So they lead us they

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are our leaders.

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Now, there are many forms of this because there are many types of

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individuals and many aspects of life in which we need to be led, I

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guess we need leading chemists and leading doctors and leading civil

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servants. All of that is fine, and Islam has a way of being in those

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spaces. But there is also a form of leadership that copes with

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weakness, with marginalization, with difficulty with brokenness.

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This is why this granite verse, which I'm proposing is to do with

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leadership, we made them leaders,

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God's decision limnol Sabato, when they had Sobral, which is the

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essence of overcoming the ego. So you hold your hand back from what

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the ego craves, and you put your hand forward to do what you really

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don't feel like doing that somebody patient endurance.

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So the Sabreen, the people of patients have to in our narrative

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in our

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Pantheon in our gallery of icons, individuals who are leaders in

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particular respect has to include those who coped with and showed

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fortitude

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in the face of adversity from a position of weakness and from a

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position of inner trauma and strain.

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And

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this is something that will particularly hold our attention in

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our own strained times. There is a lot of brokenness out there. Many

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people carry stings of various kinds in their hearts. Post

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Traumatic Stress Disorder, has become almost nonspecific, you

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don't need to pass through a war nowadays in order to suffer from

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it in some way or another.

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The depression rates, you saw that Pew report, I think it was last

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week amongst young people. Universities seem to double every

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five years, mental illness, anxiety, self harm, darting

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disorders, body image issues, depression, all of that

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increasing, even though those are by global standards, build it

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youth.

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They are not half drowned refugees on the beaches of Sicily, they

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have nice ba positions at University of Bristol or wherever

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and the world is effectively in the eyes of most at their feet.

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But there is this damage within that has happened and particularly

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it seems. And this is exercise to journalists with particular

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intensity amongst women.

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Germaine Greer, her book, the whole woman is about this her

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looking back on the feminist movement, which he still supports,

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and offers some good reasons to support the old attitudes were

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ugly attitudes.

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But pointing out that the new YouTube utopia, which was expected

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by the sisterhood in the 50s and 60s is looking pretty dystopian,

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just because of the brokenness that is out there. The failed

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relationships, the depression, the self harm, the darting disorders,

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the cutting, all of these things indicate that whatever modernity

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and its various revolutionary transformations might have

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brought, whatever doors have been opened, it has come at some kind

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of psychic cost and she just reflect on this without offering

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any particularly profound solutions or diagnosis.

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So what I want to do this time is to look at

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this idea of how you,

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exemplify solver, therefore, in the Quran is logic, leadership in

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a position of paradigmatic weakness, the Quran and the Muslim

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narrative, not just about heroes. It's not just about the flashing

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of swords in the dawn light as the enemy come down like the wolf on

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the fold, no, it's leadership. This is a more embracing, total

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thing.

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So what is it to be exemplar

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Read, this word Imam

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tends to have the sense of being exemplary. The metaphorical

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leader. These are our spiritual examples. These are our role

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models, these are our ideal types.

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Now we find when we look at the female principle, and maybe

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depending on how long these lectures go on for, we'll look at

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one or two other cases in our history of ways of protecting

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one's Muslim this in a paradigmatically feminine mode,

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that we have this

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interesting and helpful Hadith, which indicates that there have

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been four perfect women. In other words, four modalities of

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leadership. That doesn't mean there's only been four women in

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history who have reached the limit of their potential God is

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gracious,

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it means that there's four modalities.

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And more he didn't even Araby who likes to reflect on these things

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because of his idea of the Divine Pleroma manifested through the

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perfection perfected qualities of certain human types. And yes,

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there's also HECM, in which he lists the organic prophets, each

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of whom is a particular way of prismatic Lee reflecting the

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single undifferentiated light of the Divine, producing a different

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spectrum, that also amongst the feminine, there are alternate

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modalities. And we didn't really have time because it's going to be

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quite a dense topic to map these out. But we know that according to

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the standard narratives of this hadith, the four perfect women,

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usually it's Marian, it's Khadija it's Fatima

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Isha, and in some narratives also ESEA who is the believing wife of

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the pharaoh of the Exodus.

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And looking around in the Hadith literature, you see different

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reasons, why scripture values and validate them. So there isn't one

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ideal form of being female in our tradition never has been.

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This has been an issue over the border in Catholicism, Marina,

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Juana writing her book alone of all her *, which is put down of

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traditional convert convent to teaching about the Virgin Mary,

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meek and mild, got into Ambrose, the only woman who ever pleased

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God.

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Passive, receptive, be it done unto me according to Thy will.

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And not really any other very significant, salient, constantly

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repeated female types. Apart from that, in the biblical or the

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Christian narrative. And when you get into Protestantism, she

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becomes even less significant and you're left with who knows the the

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pastor's wife or something. It's a fairly bare landscape. But in

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Islamic context, we have the salient Hadith for

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Virgin Mary is one of them.

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Very briefly, we might

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identify the type that they represent as follows the Virgin

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Mary is the one who indeed and she has so much about her in the

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Quran, Al Imran and sort of Meriam

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she is the one who surrenders to the Divine Decree,

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and is gifted with the miracle of an Mercia. Alehissalaam.

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asiyah is the paradigm of the battered bride, that abused wife.

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The hadith says, when it was woman is abused by her husband, she

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shall receive the reward of that which is given to Asya Was that

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him, the wife of the pharaoh of the Exodus. So there's that

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possibility the patient suffering wife also

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in the context of Russia world you have a very different type as well

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very outgoing, extroverted, scholarly, leading an army into

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battle, answering back a strong, vivacious, self possessed type on

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recognizable and sadaqa.

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venerated in our tradition, Khadija, the type of the Earth

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Mother kind of maternal MetroNorth, but also a paradigm,

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how to overthrow of a woman who is financially autonomous employing

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men. She's the CEO of her caravan business or whatever. And if you

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read in modern Muslim feminist literature or some feminist

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literature, you'll see that she's one of the types that they

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Like to extol

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whatever we make of this leadership in a feminine context,

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and Islam is not just a single thing that has these different

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models of perfection. We're not talking about approximation

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talking about perfection

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can be let.

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So, this is the complicated point at which we begin any

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consideration of what it is to be a leader

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in this very special Imam eight Islamic conception in terms of the

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feminine half of humanity, Shankar ecoregional, the sisters of men.

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Now, what I want to do here is to look at another ideal type. And

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we'll as we proceed on the journey, see ways in which

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actually she represents aspects of all of the perfect women who are

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listed in the famous Hadith. And somebody who is somewhat

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mysteriously veiled in our heritage, even though unanimously

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recognized as in a sense, the founder of our heritage.

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When we go to Makkah,

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and we perform the obligation of homage, the fifth pillar and

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obligation.

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One of the things that we do we know that it's an Abrahamic

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recreation, it has cosmic and ontological significance in the

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journey to the center, and it's full of symbolism.

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Whether or not we understand the symbolism may not affect the way

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in which it works. Its alchemical effect on the soul. But one of the

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things that we do as part of the geometrical unfolding of the

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rituals of the Hadron is not a geometry in Islamic rituals and

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shells on at least the French Muslim writer has written about

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the geometry and the symbolism for the Hydra particularly, is that

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you have

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the plane of Arafat, and you have the circles around the Kaaba, and

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you have straight lines, which is say, between suffer and marijuana

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and all of the basic forms of geometry are there, around the

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cube, the dome of heaven, it's a kind of perfect enactment of what

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in very ancient primordial times were taken to be the earthly

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concretization of the

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heaven rooted facts of symmetry and geometry in the world. And

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when we go through the Hajj, we are confronted with that, so that

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the heart of that

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is the

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tawaf when we, as it were joined the circlings of the solar system,

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and we become part of that circular, gravitational moment

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moths around the flame flame, and also the say, suffer Mattawa

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with the symbolism that that entails, and we find that Hotjar

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this year is Rembrandt

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is the foundress of a lot of this.

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And that's an interesting circumstance. As far as I can

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tell. She is the only woman who initiated a practice in any major

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world religion.

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That nobody knows it. Safa and Marwah after all, is the coursing

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of Hotjar looking for water for her son.

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And she is buried, according to as Rocky and other historians in the

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hedger

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along with Ismail, as well. It's called the hedgerow Ismail. This

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is the semicircular walled area, on one side of the Kaaba, which

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you have to walk around. Otherwise your toe off is not complete.

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That's actually a tomb. It's a bizarre when you go there, you can

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go up to the Saudi guards and explained we're walking around the

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tomb here. Isn't it great.

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But it's legislated is required that is the Mazhar of Hydra and

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Ismail. And that's a remarkable honor.

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It is their house.

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Ibrahim Killeen. Allah is very far away in Hebron, Palestine, but

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those two are there.

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So we find that she's not really marginal but kind of central in

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the

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the landscape of our religion and its geography. There she is.

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But the story and every Muslim child learns the story of her

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abandonment, her desolation, the difficulty of her solo situation

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in the desert is the theme that I want to look at today in order to

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present an image of

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a

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of

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human excellence of moral, spiritual leadership, in the midst

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of a sea of troubles and disadvantages.

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Now

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you always find with these really ancient archetypal narratives,

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that the moment you start looking at them, and start looking at the

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sort of pre echoes of them in biblical texts, in this case, the

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book of Genesis, and also in the tafsir literature, that there is

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so much going on that you don't even know where to start.

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Obviously, if she is kind of the foundress of Islam,

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sons on site, which is buried there, the matriarch

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then there has to be something really gigantically emblematic

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about her that points to a certain essential feature of Muslim this.

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She's not just some kind of random Egyptian slave girl who happened

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to be there that doesn't have much to do with who we are. And what we

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are required to be, necessarily, as Providence has designed these

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stories and shaped history, there is something essential about her,

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which tells us something about how we are and how we are supposed to

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be.

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And it's not just about being patient, and amazing things will

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happen.

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All of the Quranic prophetic stories are about that there's

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adversity, you're patient, and then some great thing happens. But

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there are closest symmetries for a start this.

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And here is a funny kind of figure in Western art.

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Because

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they don't quite know what to make of her. The story is in the book

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of Genesis, such an amazing story. Genesis is full of amazing

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stories, it's a masterpiece. And the Western mind is not quite sure

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what to do with her because so much that seems to be

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still spiritual and noble happens to her, even though according to

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the normal Jewish and Christian narrative, she's the kind of

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mother of the Saracens of the Ishmaelites, of the outcast. And

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so this is always a kind of tense thing, and much of the basis of

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this art, and it's quite an extensive

00:22:28 --> 00:22:32

body of art, it was a popular theme, especially in the 17th 18th

00:22:32 --> 00:22:32

century,

00:22:33 --> 00:22:34

is to do with this.

00:22:36 --> 00:22:39

God is hearing her in the wilderness, and there is the

00:22:39 --> 00:22:44

child's dying and the angel comes. But this is very interesting to a

00:22:44 --> 00:22:47

certain type of tragedy oriented, Western or Christian mind.

00:22:47 --> 00:22:51

Actually, story doesn't mean much. Nothing comes with this

00:22:51 --> 00:22:53

historically. In fact, it's Harrison's come out of this, which

00:22:53 --> 00:22:58

is a big problem. So there's that tension, that the angel is kind of

00:22:58 --> 00:23:02

saving her for what for millennial darkness.

00:23:04 --> 00:23:10

That here you have one of the best images in just a few pen strokes.

00:23:11 --> 00:23:16

You have the human drama that the confidence, the celestial nature

00:23:16 --> 00:23:19

of angel with a few lines indicating where the angel has

00:23:19 --> 00:23:19

come from.

00:23:21 --> 00:23:28

And there she is, in supplication, and the child in a state of

00:23:28 --> 00:23:34

destitute destitution. But those who know the Bible will say, Well,

00:23:34 --> 00:23:38

this is extraordinary. Angels don't actually appear much. And in

00:23:38 --> 00:23:40

the Bible, they hardly ever appear to women.

00:23:44 --> 00:23:47

And in the biblical narrative, she speaks to God.

00:23:50 --> 00:23:53

In the biblical narrative, she's actually the first person ever to

00:23:53 --> 00:23:54

shed tears.

00:23:55 --> 00:24:00

A lot of archetypal important things are happening here. And an

00:24:00 --> 00:24:03

angel coming to her to announce what

00:24:04 --> 00:24:08

well, the angel has already appeared to Abraham in order to

00:24:08 --> 00:24:13

give him the very surprising news, that at the age of 80, something

00:24:14 --> 00:24:17

with his wife, in a similar age bracket,

00:24:18 --> 00:24:22

that they're going to have a son who will be the heir to the

00:24:22 --> 00:24:27

covenant and progeny, as numerous as sons stars in the sky. One of

00:24:27 --> 00:24:30

those great Genesis moments. And

00:24:31 --> 00:24:34

Abraham in our narrative, of course, accepts is with the angel

00:24:34 --> 00:24:37

comes and the promise is delivered. And then the angel

00:24:37 --> 00:24:41

comes and appears to hardware. Now, if you

00:24:42 --> 00:24:47

know, your Rembrandt, in your Christian art, they all are aware

00:24:47 --> 00:24:50

of the fact that the only other time anywhere in biblical history

00:24:50 --> 00:24:54

that anything like this ever happens is in the story of the

00:24:54 --> 00:24:55

Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin.

00:24:56 --> 00:24:58

There could be that story except the child already there.

00:25:00 --> 00:25:06

But the maternal aspect of it that the sort of natural vulnerability

00:25:06 --> 00:25:11

of womanhood is there, the fact that she is for the child and not

00:25:11 --> 00:25:16

for herself for a progeny. And then the constellation, the

00:25:16 --> 00:25:22

amazement produced by an angelic manifestation. And often, I mean,

00:25:22 --> 00:25:26

Rembrandt's certainly from the Protestant Dutch, Puritan world

00:25:26 --> 00:25:27

knew his.

00:25:29 --> 00:25:34

His Bible, that narrative in Luke's gospel, where the angel

00:25:34 --> 00:25:36

comes to the Virgin Mary

00:25:37 --> 00:25:41

seems to be constructed. Rembrandt knew this, and modern scholars

00:25:41 --> 00:25:46

knew it by people, whoever it was, Luke's gospel will probably never

00:25:46 --> 00:25:50

know who knew these stories in the Old Testament and knew about the

00:25:50 --> 00:25:55

Annunciation of Hotjar under certain evidence, symmetries and

00:25:55 --> 00:25:57

resonances between the two stories.

00:25:59 --> 00:26:03

Again, the church is going to have kind of neuralgic issues over this

00:26:03 --> 00:26:06

because hedger is supposed to be the symbol of the unchosen. But

00:26:06 --> 00:26:09

she gets this kind of Christic proleptic.

00:26:10 --> 00:26:12

Foreshadowing, so what else have I got?

00:26:14 --> 00:26:18

So many pictures? Yeah, that's kind of more sort of Baroque

00:26:18 --> 00:26:19

image.

00:26:21 --> 00:26:23

And again, but for the fact that she's already got a baby and think

00:26:23 --> 00:26:26

well here is the Virgin Mary and the Annunciation and

00:26:28 --> 00:26:30

not quite Botticelli, but it's from

00:26:31 --> 00:26:34

Italy, the post Renesas environment. Already slightly

00:26:34 --> 00:26:38

emotional, sentimental. She's kind of nicely dressed yet Rembrandt

00:26:38 --> 00:26:41

has her in rags, it's much more effective.

00:26:44 --> 00:26:46

And where is the angel pointing her?

00:26:48 --> 00:26:53

Well out to the desert. That's the point in these stories, not to

00:26:54 --> 00:26:58

luxuriant and bless it progeny because she is not heir to the

00:26:58 --> 00:27:02

promise. She is the root out of dry ground.

00:27:05 --> 00:27:11

So the angel is pointing her to the well, but subsequently to just

00:27:11 --> 00:27:14

the desert decision lights, as Ishmaelites become subsequently in

00:27:15 --> 00:27:19

the biblical narrative, the emblem of that which is not Israel

00:27:20 --> 00:27:22

they're the ones who captured Joseph if you remember the story

00:27:22 --> 00:27:25

and put leave a beat him up, put him in the well.

00:27:27 --> 00:27:31

Take him out of the well take him off to Egypt, Ishmael light is the

00:27:31 --> 00:27:38

kind of wild man that emblem of unchosen, this the non covenanted

00:27:38 --> 00:27:39

peoples.

00:27:42 --> 00:27:47

So, take a look at these two things. This is back in Holland,

00:27:48 --> 00:27:54

and both by the same artist. Now, here again, even though these are

00:27:54 --> 00:27:57

from different periods of his life, I can't remember which comes

00:27:57 --> 00:27:57

first.

00:27:59 --> 00:28:03

That traditional Western, biblically educated imagination

00:28:05 --> 00:28:09

necessarily had to conflict these stories and see them as archetypes

00:28:09 --> 00:28:16

of different principles that nonetheless, had parallels and in

00:28:16 --> 00:28:18

England until 50 years ago, everybody would know the stories

00:28:18 --> 00:28:22

and if you heard them, you would make the comparisons.

00:28:23 --> 00:28:26

When my father was a child, the only game he was allowed to play

00:28:26 --> 00:28:31

on Sundays, were games involving the Bible. That's how England has

00:28:31 --> 00:28:36

changed. Now it's Sunday shopping, like compulsory, but back then you

00:28:36 --> 00:28:41

had to play scriptural games. And actually, in his effects, I found

00:28:41 --> 00:28:45

a little picture, which was a picture of Hydra and Ishmael in

00:28:45 --> 00:28:49

the wilderness. People used to 100 years or 50 years ago, give each

00:28:49 --> 00:28:52

other little pictures of biblical stories. People lived in the

00:28:52 --> 00:28:54

Bible. Nowadays, hardly anybody reads it.

00:28:56 --> 00:29:00

It said that at the end of his life, Churchill was given a copy

00:29:00 --> 00:29:04

of the Bible to read. And he said, this book is very well written.

00:29:05 --> 00:29:07

Why is nobody bought it to my attention before.

00:29:09 --> 00:29:11

We're not a biblical

00:29:12 --> 00:29:15

Anglophone community any longer unless we're American evangelicals

00:29:15 --> 00:29:18

who tend not to pick up these things, but something very

00:29:18 --> 00:29:19

interesting is going on here.

00:29:21 --> 00:29:25

With Reubens, paintings, of course, fourth, symbolizes

00:29:25 --> 00:29:28

something that not least a color has or is very often represented

00:29:29 --> 00:29:34

in red. Western art. Why? Because that's the color of desire. She is

00:29:34 --> 00:29:38

the concubine. She's the one who Abraham and Hotjar have kind of

00:29:39 --> 00:29:42

borrowed to be a kind of surrogate mother because Sarah's obviously

00:29:42 --> 00:29:46

passed it. And so she's the new bile Egyptian teenager, who is

00:29:46 --> 00:29:46

just

00:29:47 --> 00:29:51

to produce the child of the flesh, not the child of the Covenant, so

00:29:51 --> 00:29:55

red fire desire, whereas the Virgin Mary Of course, there she

00:29:55 --> 00:29:56

is being

00:29:57 --> 00:29:59

brought up to heaven because you

00:30:00 --> 00:30:02

She can't die being not under the influence of

00:30:08 --> 00:30:09

original sin.

00:30:10 --> 00:30:13

Blue, her natural color is the color of heaven. That's where she

00:30:13 --> 00:30:18

belongs. She is Queen of Heaven. Mater courageous. So this year is

00:30:18 --> 00:30:21

going up. And of course, she's looking up to her natural home.

00:30:22 --> 00:30:27

Hunter is kind of looking down, she has got a kind of hand, sort

00:30:27 --> 00:30:31

of pushing away there is Abraham and Sarah, and the dog barking at

00:30:31 --> 00:30:36

her, of course, she has to go out because Sarah now has the child.

00:30:36 --> 00:30:41

And so no more use for hardware. And so she gets pushed out into

00:30:41 --> 00:30:45

just nowhere, the wilderness. And then the imagination of the

00:30:45 --> 00:30:49

Genesis authors that would mean certain death. It's another like,

00:30:49 --> 00:30:54

cut the throat of your son moment. It's a binding moment, obviously

00:30:54 --> 00:30:59

goes with the child into the desert, where somebody will cut

00:30:59 --> 00:31:02

her throat or she will die of thirst and that very nearly

00:31:02 --> 00:31:07

happens of course. So these two things juxtaposed represent these

00:31:07 --> 00:31:12

perhaps the two most salient women in the Christian scripture

00:31:13 --> 00:31:19

doing opposite things even though there are analogies in their

00:31:20 --> 00:31:21

lives. So

00:31:24 --> 00:31:24

this

00:31:28 --> 00:31:29

later,

00:31:30 --> 00:31:33

feminine representation of this great fork in the road of

00:31:33 --> 00:31:38

monotheistic history. Historia monotheistic

00:31:39 --> 00:31:42

is something that continues to be

00:31:43 --> 00:31:47

significant, at least in terms of Jewish and Christian self

00:31:47 --> 00:31:53

understanding. Book of Genesis is setting up certain tensions and

00:31:53 --> 00:32:00

tinham is opposites are chosen the unchosen the Israelite and the

00:32:00 --> 00:32:06

Gentile, the local and the forum, the fertile the infertile. All of

00:32:06 --> 00:32:09

these opposition's are there in the book of Genesis and the

00:32:09 --> 00:32:12

subsequent narrative of the Hebrew scripture in particular, which is

00:32:12 --> 00:32:16

about God's providence to his people is seen in terms of these

00:32:16 --> 00:32:20

original chosen unchosen dichotomies, of which perhaps the

00:32:20 --> 00:32:25

most salient is Ishmael and Isaac, Hotjar. And Sarah because of

00:32:25 --> 00:32:27

course, she's not from the chosen people because she comes from

00:32:27 --> 00:32:27

Egypt.

00:32:29 --> 00:32:33

Egypt, for the authors of the Hebrew Bible is the place where

00:32:33 --> 00:32:36

the foreigners live, it's the place where you're going to exile

00:32:36 --> 00:32:38

someplace where they enslave you, it's the place where Israel is

00:32:38 --> 00:32:43

persecuted. So as an Egyptian to bring that blood into the

00:32:43 --> 00:32:48

patriarchal line is kind of my soldier nation. That's the worst

00:32:48 --> 00:32:52

kind of mixed marriage. So the logic is, she has to go off, she

00:32:52 --> 00:32:58

has to be ejected into the wilderness because she's the dry

00:32:58 --> 00:33:04

branch. The true seed in this amazing Genesis, sort of fork in

00:33:04 --> 00:33:10

the road is the elderly woman producing a baby. And so, the

00:33:10 --> 00:33:14

firstborn who everybody thought was going to be it turns out at

00:33:14 --> 00:33:19

the last minute, not to be it, but the symbol of rejected Agnes.

00:33:21 --> 00:33:21

So,

00:33:22 --> 00:33:24

we find in

00:33:25 --> 00:33:27

rabbinic commentary,

00:33:28 --> 00:33:34

the idea of this woman as being a kind of emblem of everything that

00:33:34 --> 00:33:35

is not right.

00:33:37 --> 00:33:40

That's that's the sort of Talmudic narratives.

00:33:44 --> 00:33:48

So, in one hygienic narrative, Hadar cleave to Abraham and gave

00:33:48 --> 00:33:53

birth to Ishmael. But in the end, she returned to her stench. And

00:33:53 --> 00:33:58

other Texas has got I got a very sheet says that she is fertile.

00:33:59 --> 00:34:03

Not because of a divine blessing. But because she's a Gentile, she's

00:34:03 --> 00:34:06

Egyptians. They're naturally promiscuous.

00:34:07 --> 00:34:08

They're like donkeys.

00:34:09 --> 00:34:14

This again, is to do with her servile slave proletarian origin,

00:34:14 --> 00:34:16

like a donkey. She's made for hard work.

00:34:18 --> 00:34:22

Sometimes they also came up with the legend which presented her as

00:34:22 --> 00:34:23

Pharaoh's daughter

00:34:25 --> 00:34:30

who was necessarily enslaved by the true people. So

00:34:32 --> 00:34:33

we have

00:34:36 --> 00:34:39

this image already before the rise of Islam and when Islam comes

00:34:39 --> 00:34:42

around, this becomes part of the rabbinic discussion of who the

00:34:42 --> 00:34:47

Saracens are the Ishmaelites Yishmael Ilim. They seem to be

00:34:47 --> 00:34:51

very numerous, like the stars in the sky. They seem to be ruling

00:34:51 --> 00:34:54

the world from the Pyrenees to get to China and just about

00:34:54 --> 00:34:58

everywhere, where Jews could prosperously live, but they come

00:34:58 --> 00:34:59

from this

00:35:00 --> 00:35:07

Egypt unchosen this Gentile status. servility ticking all of

00:35:07 --> 00:35:10

the boxes that indicate that you're not part of the people. All

00:35:10 --> 00:35:13

of the boxes are represented in her and in the idea that the

00:35:13 --> 00:35:17

Israelites are the Muslims who may be now ruling the world, but it's

00:35:17 --> 00:35:22

still a kind of fairy onic world, it's not the world have chosen us

00:35:22 --> 00:35:25

and this becomes very comforting to

00:35:28 --> 00:35:32

many, so one modern rabbinic specialist says, in general, the

00:35:32 --> 00:35:36

rabbi's have rushed to blame the victim. She seems to be the

00:35:36 --> 00:35:42

victim, but actually, that she is the one on whose head all of the

00:35:42 --> 00:35:46

polemic should fall. So one contemporary writer

00:35:48 --> 00:35:53

Aviva Zuckerberg, saying why is Sarah chucking her out to almost

00:35:53 --> 00:35:57

certain death and getting rid of the sun? Isn't that unethical. But

00:35:57 --> 00:36:00

Sara is characterized as a righteous woman. It's a preemptive

00:36:00 --> 00:36:06

strike, because she knew what what a hassle, the Ishmaelites would be

00:36:06 --> 00:36:09

for the chosen people. And therefore it was right to kill

00:36:09 --> 00:36:13

them in advance because of what would happen 1000s of years later,

00:36:14 --> 00:36:16

as a result of his survival.

00:36:19 --> 00:36:20

Then we get

00:36:21 --> 00:36:23

just a few more images.

00:36:24 --> 00:36:27

We're getting into the late 19th century sentimentality.

00:36:29 --> 00:36:35

Again, this difficulty in the Western mind is she's an entirely

00:36:35 --> 00:36:41

positive sympathetic figure in the Jewish Christian scriptures, but

00:36:41 --> 00:36:46

she is also presented as the emblem of otherness and of

00:36:46 --> 00:36:48

rejection, his more recent image.

00:36:50 --> 00:36:51

What could be more

00:36:53 --> 00:36:58

admirable, this is not the Virgin Mary, sort of fleeing to Egypt.

00:36:58 --> 00:37:01

Instead, something is happening the other way around.

00:37:02 --> 00:37:08

She's got her son, Ishmael, but she is Egyptian. But she has been

00:37:08 --> 00:37:14

ejected from the promised land so much metaphor is going on here

00:37:14 --> 00:37:17

that of course, the image continues to attract the attention

00:37:17 --> 00:37:19

of artists and there's her

00:37:21 --> 00:37:24

little break in the corner them. So then we get

00:37:26 --> 00:37:31

the world of the New Testament. What are they going to make of

00:37:31 --> 00:37:38

this story and we have one, we have this text which is in

00:37:38 --> 00:37:39

Genesis,

00:37:40 --> 00:37:46

which then becomes taken up by the church as an example of otherness,

00:37:46 --> 00:37:50

and in the eyes of Paul, the otherness of Israel.

00:37:57 --> 00:38:01

Ishmael do we know what the word means is hark. He laughed, or she

00:38:01 --> 00:38:04

laughed, because of the improbability of his birth. You

00:38:04 --> 00:38:07

smile God heard in other words heard

00:38:08 --> 00:38:09

Abraham's prayer

00:38:11 --> 00:38:14

that you have this is one of the nicest pictures of his Koro again

00:38:16 --> 00:38:18

and the angel just discreetly visible

00:38:21 --> 00:38:24

doesn't really doesn't really look like Micah does it but he was

00:38:24 --> 00:38:27

didn't leave France I think so the best you could do.

00:38:34 --> 00:38:37

Okay, so the Christians looking at

00:38:38 --> 00:38:41

these texts in Genesis, always looking at them, and particularly

00:38:41 --> 00:38:47

starting with support as examples of what is going to happen

00:38:49 --> 00:38:51

in future years, and so they had to

00:38:53 --> 00:38:57

get their heads around this text. Again, it's very pro Hadrian, pro

00:38:57 --> 00:38:58

Ishmael light.

00:39:02 --> 00:39:04

Again, the angel is speaking to her Joe.

00:39:07 --> 00:39:10

What troubles you Hi Joe, do not be afraid God has heard the voice

00:39:10 --> 00:39:13

of the boy. I will make a great nation of him.

00:39:15 --> 00:39:19

For St. Paul for Augustan, for origin for to Italian for all of

00:39:19 --> 00:39:22

the Church Fathers who spend a lot of time working on the scriptural

00:39:22 --> 00:39:26

archetype. This is another headache. What does it mean a

00:39:26 --> 00:39:26

great nation.

00:39:28 --> 00:39:32

No matter things of course in his sera book has this is chapter one,

00:39:32 --> 00:39:35

the great nation. Of course, greatness is greatness in the

00:39:35 --> 00:39:39

Spirit. That's all God is interested in. So truly a great

00:39:39 --> 00:39:46

nation, the present moment of the religion, whose center will be the

00:39:46 --> 00:39:49

ancient house in Makkah, which is her sanctuary.

00:39:51 --> 00:39:55

But what are the Christians going to do with this? Well, what we get

00:39:58 --> 00:39:59

is a

00:40:00 --> 00:40:06

One of the strangest rhetorical stumps pulled by St. Paul,

00:40:08 --> 00:40:14

is to turn that on its head, to say that actually had her and

00:40:14 --> 00:40:19

Ishmael are a coded symbol representing the Jews who wouldn't

00:40:19 --> 00:40:20

accept Christ.

00:40:22 --> 00:40:24

Nothing could have been further from the minds of those who wrote

00:40:24 --> 00:40:27

those texts in the book of Genesis, but this becomes the

00:40:27 --> 00:40:30

normative Christian doctrine still is the Evangelicals when they

00:40:30 --> 00:40:31

think about the story.

00:40:32 --> 00:40:34

It's in his letter to the Galatians.

00:40:36 --> 00:40:38

Okay, so he gets it gives you the,

00:40:39 --> 00:40:40

the idea of the dichotomy.

00:40:42 --> 00:40:48

Okay, according to the flesh, just the DNA is inherited. But the DNA

00:40:48 --> 00:40:55

of Isaac is spiritual as well. And this great fork becomes even more

00:40:55 --> 00:41:00

intensified. But he says Hotjar, because of her kind of Arabian

00:41:00 --> 00:41:02

southern identity

00:41:04 --> 00:41:08

represents slavery, and hence, Judaism.

00:41:11 --> 00:41:14

In other words, those Jews who have rejected Paul's

00:41:14 --> 00:41:16

interpretation of who Jesus was,

00:41:18 --> 00:41:23

are actually following the Israelite

00:41:24 --> 00:41:28

fork in the road. And it's the Christians who are the true

00:41:28 --> 00:41:31

descendants of Isaac. And it's the Jews who are the descendants of

00:41:31 --> 00:41:34

Ishmael. And that's really what the story is about. For him at

00:41:34 --> 00:41:38

last is able to make sense of this thing that seems to lead nowhere.

00:41:40 --> 00:41:46

But the Jerusalem that is above the church is free. And this links

00:41:46 --> 00:41:51

also with his idea of freedom and slavery, which for him, represents

00:41:51 --> 00:41:55

whether or not you submit to the Mosaic law, that rules

00:41:55 --> 00:41:59

circumcision, and so forth. Because for him, you'd be baptized

00:41:59 --> 00:42:02

Gentile converts don't have to do all of that stuff. That's part of

00:42:02 --> 00:42:07

slavery to the law. But the Christian is in a state of gospel

00:42:07 --> 00:42:13

freedom, and therefore, is the natural psalm of Isaac. Whereas

00:42:13 --> 00:42:17

the those who are descendants of the slave, are actually now

00:42:18 --> 00:42:21

identified with the Jewish people, not with the Ishmaelites. And the

00:42:21 --> 00:42:24

Arabs. And this is very extraordinary and original moment

00:42:24 --> 00:42:28

in Paul. And this text in particular is right at the heart

00:42:28 --> 00:42:33

of modern right wing American Theo con evangelical reflection on

00:42:33 --> 00:42:38

Islam. They like Paul, I'd like the rabbi's want an explanation

00:42:38 --> 00:42:42

that's biblical for what's going on now in the Middle East.

00:42:43 --> 00:42:46

And so they hit on this text with their own

00:42:48 --> 00:42:51

take on it. This is from an evangelical website, which puts it

00:42:52 --> 00:42:53

very clearly.

00:42:55 --> 00:43:02

Very, absolutely. On the left, red traffic lights, all of this is the

00:43:02 --> 00:43:02

bad stuff.

00:43:04 --> 00:43:06

Earthly enslaved,

00:43:07 --> 00:43:12

race, just genealogy, disinherited. In other words,

00:43:13 --> 00:43:17

it just like little river, going off into the desert, sinking in

00:43:18 --> 00:43:20

and leading to nothing. And then

00:43:21 --> 00:43:27

on this side, you have all of the good stuff, culminating presumably

00:43:27 --> 00:43:31

in the Bible believing modern Trump voters. This is the kind of

00:43:31 --> 00:43:35

mindset that millions and millions of them are currently working

00:43:35 --> 00:43:38

with. And if you ever cross swords, metaphorically, with any

00:43:38 --> 00:43:42

of them, you'll find that this dichotomy is the biblical point

00:43:42 --> 00:43:46

where they think that they have cornered Islam. Muslims say that

00:43:46 --> 00:43:50

it centers of hijab, they even go to where she's buried. And that's

00:43:50 --> 00:43:55

Arabia. And that's the law, Sharia law, which were banned in

00:43:55 --> 00:43:56

Tennessee now, of course.

00:43:58 --> 00:44:04

So, Islam is anticipated in the biblical text by these narratives,

00:44:04 --> 00:44:05

whereas

00:44:06 --> 00:44:08

God has given the green light

00:44:09 --> 00:44:13

to the country that stretches from sea to shining sea and the

00:44:13 --> 00:44:18

American special vocation to the world as a Christian civilization,

00:44:18 --> 00:44:23

etc, etc, the normal narrative of triumphalism and they use this

00:44:23 --> 00:44:28

dichotomy, that Ishmael Isaac dichotomy, and

00:44:29 --> 00:44:33

this has become very significant in our time, and you find the same

00:44:33 --> 00:44:33

thing in

00:44:35 --> 00:44:37

the Russian Orthodox Church as well.

00:44:39 --> 00:44:41

Because, after all,

00:44:42 --> 00:44:46

Islam is post biblical, and if you've got a biblical worldview,

00:44:47 --> 00:44:51

you're going to find you do have to resort to this kind of

00:44:51 --> 00:44:54

allegorical interpretation in order to get anything

00:44:56 --> 00:44:58

biblical about Islam, whereas Muslims of course have lots of

00:44:58 --> 00:44:59

stuff in the Quran.

00:45:00 --> 00:45:05

About earlier prophets, we already have an abundance of information

00:45:05 --> 00:45:07

and theological perspectives, but for them dealing with later

00:45:07 --> 00:45:12

religions is a problem, but this is the text that they have found.

00:45:12 --> 00:45:19

So it leads in this direction. Hotjar is about foreignness,

00:45:19 --> 00:45:23

alienation, flesh, law, enslavement, desire.

00:45:25 --> 00:45:31

Whereas the narrative that leads up to, usually white American

00:45:31 --> 00:45:32

Evangelical

00:45:33 --> 00:45:37

Christians is the line of gospel freedoms America, the city on the

00:45:37 --> 00:45:40

hill, land of the free, etc. It all fits as part of this

00:45:40 --> 00:45:44

narrative, which is hugely influential in today's world and

00:45:44 --> 00:45:46

affects voting patterns and foreign policy. And

00:45:49 --> 00:45:54

it's an example of the enduring power of these ancient stories.

00:45:55 --> 00:45:59

However, not everybody who reads the Bible finds this kind of

00:45:59 --> 00:46:01

violent dichotomy within it.

00:46:03 --> 00:46:09

They are somewhat taken aback when they engage with Muslims. Because

00:46:09 --> 00:46:13

Muslims after all are supposed to be the great dichotomize is that

00:46:13 --> 00:46:17

you infidels, them in us, black and white differentiation. Donal

00:46:17 --> 00:46:21

Islam, Darren, horrible. American Christians seem to be absolutely

00:46:21 --> 00:46:25

in that mode. The good guys, the bad guys, if you're not for us,

00:46:25 --> 00:46:28

you're against us. Bush was very keen on quoting the Bible.

00:46:30 --> 00:46:34

And for a lot of western church goers and synagogue goes, this is

00:46:34 --> 00:46:36

a bit

00:46:37 --> 00:46:40

of a disappointing thing to find in Scripture is this, ethically

00:46:40 --> 00:46:43

the best that the Bible can do when dealing with the fact of

00:46:43 --> 00:46:46

Ishmael who is now a quarter of the world's population and

00:46:46 --> 00:46:46

counting,

00:46:47 --> 00:46:52

and vibrant and active and the midterms, another couple of

00:46:52 --> 00:46:55

Muslims were elected to Congress and Islam is everywhere. And you

00:46:55 --> 00:47:01

can't just say it's the Antichrist and evil. Dealing with it through

00:47:02 --> 00:47:07

drone strikes, we need something a little bit better. And when they

00:47:07 --> 00:47:11

encountered the Muslim account, which is that we don't accept ever

00:47:11 --> 00:47:15

any kind of dichotomizing between the two songs, they become quite

00:47:15 --> 00:47:15

thoughtful.

00:47:17 --> 00:47:19

Because we have never had

00:47:20 --> 00:47:24

this kind of polarization. We don't read those stories in those

00:47:24 --> 00:47:28

terms. Were really not very interested in that strand of

00:47:28 --> 00:47:31

biblical narrative, which is one of the biggest strands which is

00:47:31 --> 00:47:32

about chosen this.

00:47:34 --> 00:47:38

God chooses those who he chooses. The Holy Prophet is called a

00:47:38 --> 00:47:41

Mustafa, the chosen one even though his from

00:47:42 --> 00:47:47

Hotjar, and not from Sara. so

00:47:49 --> 00:47:54

taken aback, wrong footed embarrassed, and they want to know

00:47:54 --> 00:47:57

whether they too can have an inclusive model, is there some way

00:47:57 --> 00:48:02

in which hardware can be rehabilitated? Some ways in which

00:48:02 --> 00:48:04

you can, as

00:48:05 --> 00:48:09

Tory cabinet puts it, have your cake and eat it, you have the book

00:48:09 --> 00:48:13

of Genesis, but you also have some kind of inclusive model of

00:48:13 --> 00:48:15

religion, even though those Genesis narratives were really

00:48:15 --> 00:48:19

deliberately and fiscally constructed, to divide and to

00:48:19 --> 00:48:25

differentiate, well, interesting story of how her gel is received

00:48:25 --> 00:48:31

in modern, Jewish and Christian readings. So let's whiz through

00:48:33 --> 00:48:38

a few of these, usually, as you can imagine, in kind of feministic

00:48:39 --> 00:48:42

readings of scriptural tradition.

00:48:44 --> 00:48:46

Okay, so here you have a kind of

00:48:47 --> 00:48:49

postmodern reflection.

00:48:50 --> 00:48:54

So Augustine, who, as you'd expect with his love of dichotomies made

00:48:54 --> 00:48:58

a big deal of the unsureness of agile and

00:48:59 --> 00:49:05

accepting Paul's identification of Hotjar as the the Jewish temple

00:49:05 --> 00:49:07

still in the grip of slavery to the law.

00:49:09 --> 00:49:10

You have this

00:49:11 --> 00:49:14

very interesting reflection that

00:49:15 --> 00:49:21

as he abandons the whole Judaic template of allegorical reading,

00:49:22 --> 00:49:26

necessarily, the allegory that Paul is using has to be rejected

00:49:26 --> 00:49:31

as well. Paul was schooled in rabbinical context and the way in

00:49:31 --> 00:49:34

which is rereading the Old Testament as allegory is

00:49:34 --> 00:49:38

absolutely recognizable in terms of first century Palestinian,

00:49:38 --> 00:49:41

Hellenized, Judaic way of allegorical reading of the

00:49:41 --> 00:49:46

Scripture. So she's kind of turning the tables on this turning

00:49:46 --> 00:49:49

of the tables by saying that you can't even have that Judaic

00:49:49 --> 00:49:52

insistence that everything has to be a typology

00:49:54 --> 00:49:56

and of course, the denial of

00:49:59 --> 00:49:59

Palau

00:50:00 --> 00:50:04

Art is one of the key themes of post modernism.

00:50:07 --> 00:50:10

There's an ironic reflection, which is quite symptomatic of

00:50:10 --> 00:50:14

what's happening. Here's another. And again, this is an African

00:50:14 --> 00:50:15

American feminist writer.

00:50:17 --> 00:50:22

And for her, one of the interesting things is the Egyptian

00:50:22 --> 00:50:23

this of hijab.

00:50:24 --> 00:50:29

And for a lot of black feminists, that means the African this and

00:50:29 --> 00:50:34

therefore, in some sense, whatever the exact color, pigmentation of

00:50:34 --> 00:50:38

her skin, African this blackness, it's the

00:50:39 --> 00:50:44

African continent. And so for a lot of African American authors

00:50:44 --> 00:50:48

now, who are interested in overturning these biblical

00:50:49 --> 00:50:53

archetypes, hardier has become not the heroine of a story that

00:50:53 --> 00:50:58

becomes the wrong story, the story of unpleasantness, but instead, a

00:50:58 --> 00:50:58

heroine.

00:51:00 --> 00:51:03

One of the big things that's happening in feminist exegesis of

00:51:03 --> 00:51:08

the Bible is that their favorite character in the whole Bible is

00:51:08 --> 00:51:12

actually hijab. Even though for the evangelicals, and the big

00:51:12 --> 00:51:18

church down the road, she is the matriarch of those pesky Arabs.

00:51:19 --> 00:51:22

That's one of the tensions in American culture now, particularly

00:51:23 --> 00:51:27

in these African American contexts where there is a lot of reflection

00:51:27 --> 00:51:34

on the legacy of slavery, exclusion, racism, broken

00:51:34 --> 00:51:40

families, single parenthood, inner pain, trauma, anxiety, depression,

00:51:40 --> 00:51:45

suffering. And so it's a kind of issue in theodicy, she becomes the

00:51:45 --> 00:51:48

biblical image of the oppressed woman. So here's some random

00:51:48 --> 00:51:53

quotes from this book, which kind of focuses on Hotjar and is about

00:51:54 --> 00:51:56

solidarity with Outcast woman.

00:51:57 --> 00:52:01

Now, first of all, she points out, and there's been some interesting

00:52:01 --> 00:52:07

studies on the figure of Hotjar, in American fiction in the early

00:52:07 --> 00:52:10

mid 19th century, that she's often a slave name.

00:52:11 --> 00:52:16

And that, because of her civility, and the fact that her civility is

00:52:16 --> 00:52:20

characterized as a right thing for an Egyptian to be in, that it was

00:52:20 --> 00:52:24

one of the big arguments in favor of slavery in America.

00:52:26 --> 00:52:30

And the idea of Ishmael as the kind of the legitimate,

00:52:31 --> 00:52:36

legitimate, reject the outcast. Remember, Moby Dick begins with

00:52:36 --> 00:52:39

the words call me Ishmael, because it's about his sense of outsider

00:52:39 --> 00:52:43

status, and that would suddenly be understood by Bible reading.

00:52:45 --> 00:52:45

America.

00:52:47 --> 00:52:51

And then African Americans, as they have read the Bible, are not

00:52:51 --> 00:52:56

going to go along with the established exegesis of the slave

00:52:56 --> 00:53:02

owners and their latter day heirs, but instead have to reread the

00:53:02 --> 00:53:07

Bible in ways that might reject August in the patristic consensus,

00:53:07 --> 00:53:11

the demonizing of the African, the single mother, the refugee, the

00:53:11 --> 00:53:15

woman, all of these negative things, and actually rehabilitate

00:53:15 --> 00:53:17

them in a kind of form of

00:53:20 --> 00:53:22

liberation theology.

00:53:31 --> 00:53:33

Okay, so one of the things that she wants to talk about is the

00:53:33 --> 00:53:38

falsity of the civility of the idea of the civility of Ishmael

00:53:38 --> 00:53:41

and hygiene is, of course, a concern for Muslims as well hijab,

00:53:42 --> 00:53:47

while she concubine, slave girl, bit on the side, legitimate wife.

00:53:50 --> 00:53:55

It's a polemic and particularly in Muslims who are fighting against

00:53:55 --> 00:53:58

the evangelicals who want to say that talk about the illegitimacy

00:53:58 --> 00:54:02

of slave descent, this has become an issue. So she comes up with

00:54:03 --> 00:54:06

observations like this, that according to the authors of the

00:54:06 --> 00:54:10

book of Genesis, the idea that Abraham and Sarah might have

00:54:10 --> 00:54:14

feared that there might have been a real inheritance through Ishmael

00:54:14 --> 00:54:18

indicates that Hotjar can't have been a slave or concubine. But if

00:54:18 --> 00:54:22

she had had that status, there's no way in which Ishmael would have

00:54:22 --> 00:54:24

inherited anything.

00:54:25 --> 00:54:27

So what we're starting to see is,

00:54:28 --> 00:54:31

without there being much reference to anything Islamic, a kind of

00:54:31 --> 00:54:36

parallelism to what Muslims have found in these ancient narratives,

00:54:37 --> 00:54:40

and sometimes the parallel is remarkably close.

00:54:43 --> 00:54:45

So she has now become crucial.

00:54:47 --> 00:54:51

All of these modern tickbox issues race, * class, she's from

00:54:53 --> 00:54:59

all of those criteria for unchosen this which the

00:55:00 --> 00:55:04

Pre modern Jewish and Christian consensus assumed made her the

00:55:04 --> 00:55:08

icon of unworthiness are actually the kind of things which would

00:55:08 --> 00:55:14

have left inclined American activists are most concerned

00:55:14 --> 00:55:14

about.

00:55:15 --> 00:55:18

So it's quite a radical overturning of the former

00:55:18 --> 00:55:22

consensus. The fact that she is African, the fact that she is

00:55:23 --> 00:55:27

female, the fact that she is a slave, the fact that she's

00:55:27 --> 00:55:32

servile, proletarian subjects, single mother, all of those things

00:55:32 --> 00:55:36

indicate that instead of being the kind of mysterious antihero of the

00:55:36 --> 00:55:39

Bible matriarch of unchosen, this, she's actually

00:55:40 --> 00:55:46

their favorite figure of the entire biblical text. So again,

00:55:46 --> 00:55:49

one of the biggest things that has happened

00:55:50 --> 00:55:55

in biblical interpretation in recent years now, here is

00:55:57 --> 00:56:00

the mainstream if you'd like Steven Kipnis, got a significant

00:56:00 --> 00:56:04

Jewish thinker, reflecting on this. And of course, with one eye

00:56:04 --> 00:56:07

on the catastrophes of the Middle East and the haves and the have

00:56:07 --> 00:56:11

nots, eyeballing each other through the Gaza fence and the

00:56:11 --> 00:56:13

extreme polarities of

00:56:15 --> 00:56:20

the modern reality of this ancient Abrahamic dichotomy.

00:56:22 --> 00:56:23

This is

00:56:24 --> 00:56:27

a way in which he reflects on this, it's not the major theme of

00:56:27 --> 00:56:29

the book, which is quite

00:56:30 --> 00:56:34

synthetic in general. But of course, he has to refer to it.

00:56:35 --> 00:56:36

How the Other

00:56:37 --> 00:56:43

in Hebrew how God the other, who comes from Egypt, land of exile

00:56:43 --> 00:56:47

and slavery, the wife of the patriarch Abraham, through whom

00:56:47 --> 00:56:51

all the people of the earth are blessed. If Islam is rooted in the

00:56:51 --> 00:56:54

Hebrew Scriptures, what this opens up is a new possibility to see

00:56:54 --> 00:56:58

Islam as not opposed to the Judeo Christian tradition of monotheism.

00:56:59 --> 00:57:03

But indeed as a part of it. To Hydra. And Ishmael Islam finds its

00:57:03 --> 00:57:07

places simultaneously the first child of Abraham, and the third

00:57:07 --> 00:57:12

stage in the development of monotheism. Well, medieval rabbis

00:57:12 --> 00:57:16

would have not found that recognizable, because the essence

00:57:16 --> 00:57:22

of the story whereby otherness Gentile status is constructed for

00:57:22 --> 00:57:27

the biblical writers is this idea of the driving out of her and her

00:57:27 --> 00:57:32

son, but now it's been reread rehabilitated through modern

00:57:32 --> 00:57:36

hermeneutic turn under scriptural reasoning, whereby you read

00:57:36 --> 00:57:39

scriptural texts in order to find the most pragmatic and benign

00:57:39 --> 00:57:40

outcomes.

00:57:41 --> 00:57:48

And this is what he has now found. Now, of course, the Judeo

00:57:48 --> 00:57:54

Christian tradition, that's a very bogus concatenation, because the

00:57:54 --> 00:57:56

Old and the New Testaments didn't really fit together at all well,

00:57:57 --> 00:58:00

and those two principles have

00:58:01 --> 00:58:04

had more of a hate relationship than a love relationship down the

00:58:04 --> 00:58:07

centuries and Islam metabolically in many ways, structurally,

00:58:07 --> 00:58:11

legally, monotheistic Lee is closer to Judaism. And

00:58:11 --> 00:58:14

Christianity is you might speak of a judo Islamic tradition,

00:58:15 --> 00:58:18

possibly, in medieval Spain, for instance, Judeo Christian

00:58:18 --> 00:58:23

tradition, after those dichotomies that Paul is insisting on, that's

00:58:23 --> 00:58:27

more difficult, but anyway, he's happy to use this, I guess for his

00:58:27 --> 00:58:29

ironically minded

00:58:30 --> 00:58:35

readers. But you can see that's the enormous scale of the

00:58:35 --> 00:58:38

overturning, which has happened here.

00:58:43 --> 00:58:48

Okay, now let's rewind and think about the Muslim narratives. Okay,

00:58:48 --> 00:58:51

there's Rembrandt again. He liked this theme.

00:58:55 --> 00:58:58

Now, the funny thing and I don't have a clear cut answer for you

00:58:59 --> 00:59:02

about all of this is that even though

00:59:04 --> 00:59:08

the Jewish and Christian traditions have always identified

00:59:08 --> 00:59:14

Muslims as Hadrian's and as Ishmaelites, and we also identify

00:59:14 --> 00:59:16

ourselves as Hadrian's and Ishmaelites and the Hajj doesn't

00:59:16 --> 00:59:18

make much sense unless

00:59:19 --> 00:59:21

you recognize that you're recreating her

00:59:23 --> 00:59:29

thirsty steps, reenacting that moment of self sacrifice. We are

00:59:30 --> 00:59:34

Ishmaelites there's an interesting circumstance that it's not really

00:59:34 --> 00:59:37

very, she is not really mentioned in the Quran, unlike the Virgin

00:59:37 --> 00:59:38

Mary.

00:59:39 --> 00:59:43

And the Hadrian aspect of that story is not really in the Quran.

00:59:44 --> 00:59:49

Not really sure why that should be. Maybe because it was kind of

00:59:49 --> 00:59:54

already obviously no. But in any case, it's certainly salient in

00:59:54 --> 00:59:58

our historians. So here we have

00:59:59 --> 00:59:59

tubers,

01:00:00 --> 01:00:01

The narrative,

01:00:02 --> 01:00:04

the first true regret Tafseer.

01:00:07 --> 01:00:11

Which is again, the angel time identified with Gabriel,

01:00:13 --> 01:00:16

Gabriel, the angel of Revelation, the same one who comes to the

01:00:16 --> 01:00:20

Virgin Mary, not any old Angel. Gabriel, Muslims have always

01:00:20 --> 01:00:23

agreed that she saw Gable and

01:00:25 --> 01:00:26

spoke to him.

01:00:28 --> 01:00:30

And then you have this dialogue,

01:00:32 --> 01:00:36

which is quite similar again to the Quranic narrative of the

01:00:36 --> 01:00:38

Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin

01:00:40 --> 01:00:47

where he is questioning, and she gives a very Muslim answer. To

01:00:47 --> 01:00:49

whom did he entrust you?

01:00:50 --> 01:00:53

You're all on your own in this desert place, Abraham.

01:00:55 --> 01:01:00

let you down. And she replies, what Kalani Illa KEF,

01:01:01 --> 01:01:04

entrusted me to one who is sufficient

01:01:05 --> 01:01:10

that the angel says, entrusted you to one who is enough, the boy

01:01:10 --> 01:01:14

ropes is robbed the ground with his toe, zooms and appears and

01:01:14 --> 01:01:15

that story begins.

01:01:17 --> 01:01:23

The symbol of salvation in the desert is water, and the water of

01:01:23 --> 01:01:26

life which is revelation, salvation ensues.

01:01:28 --> 01:01:29

So

01:01:30 --> 01:01:31

that's just one

01:01:33 --> 01:01:38

bit from the Muslim historians where they talk about this, but

01:01:38 --> 01:01:45

what we need to bear in mind is that she liked the Virgin Mary is

01:01:45 --> 01:01:50

always characterized as somebody who accepts divine providence.

01:01:53 --> 01:01:56

When the Virgin is in the desert,

01:01:57 --> 01:02:03

giving birth, beneath the palm tree, she cries out because of the

01:02:03 --> 01:02:08

pain, late to name it to a cobbler. Heather, welcome to NESEA

01:02:08 --> 01:02:11

nman Sia, where she's not angry with anyone.

01:02:12 --> 01:02:14

And she's not angry with God.

01:02:16 --> 01:02:19

And then the miracles are given to her. One of the miracles is, of

01:02:19 --> 01:02:25

course, the well that comes from beneath her to Allah buki tataki,

01:02:25 --> 01:02:26

Surya,

01:02:28 --> 01:02:31

which is not, of course, biblical account doesn't have the palm tree

01:02:31 --> 01:02:32

in the desert. And it's

01:02:33 --> 01:02:37

the three wise men and the shepherds and the manger its

01:02:38 --> 01:02:40

narrative is quite different.

01:02:41 --> 01:02:46

But again, the hearing resonances are very clear, and the fact of

01:02:47 --> 01:02:50

the miraculous deliberation through the water and the dates,

01:02:52 --> 01:02:56

which in Islam are differentiated, because the water is a spiritual

01:02:56 --> 01:02:59

thing. It's from the first Shahada. It comes from heaven,

01:02:59 --> 01:03:03

whereas the dates come from the earth from the oasis from life.

01:03:03 --> 01:03:08

And so it's to do with second shahada and Jerusalem, they come

01:03:08 --> 01:03:09

together in the story,

01:03:10 --> 01:03:11

but

01:03:12 --> 01:03:18

she is paradigmatically, the one who accepts and surrenders

01:03:20 --> 01:03:26

despite the apparent desperation of her plight.

01:03:44 --> 01:03:44

So

01:03:48 --> 01:03:50

in the contemporary period,

01:03:51 --> 01:03:55

we find that the story, which is

01:03:56 --> 01:03:59

occasionally there in our heritage, and again, it's a bit

01:03:59 --> 01:04:02

mysterious, perhaps that say Jalaluddin Rumi in his copious

01:04:02 --> 01:04:06

poetry has lots of stuff about Virgin Mary, not much about her a

01:04:06 --> 01:04:10

few lines here and there, that she hasn't quite even though she is

01:04:10 --> 01:04:14

our foundress caught our collective imagination the way the

01:04:14 --> 01:04:15

Blessed Virgin did.

01:04:17 --> 01:04:21

It's an interesting circumstance, that in the modern period, there

01:04:21 --> 01:04:23

has been a lot more interest.

01:04:25 --> 01:04:29

And it generally is an interest pretty disconnected to the revival

01:04:29 --> 01:04:33

of interest in her and the repressed donation of a memory

01:04:33 --> 01:04:36

that we find amongst sort of American

01:04:37 --> 01:04:42

minority feminists. But some of the same issues are

01:04:44 --> 01:04:50

to be found. So, for instance, Ali Shariati in the 1970s and named a

01:04:50 --> 01:04:54

conduit amongst Muslim revolutionary activists killed by

01:04:54 --> 01:04:57

the shore secret police. This country I think, who writes a book

01:04:57 --> 01:04:59

on the Hajj after his experiences of the high

01:05:00 --> 01:05:04

and his experience of it as a radical leveling of human beings,

01:05:05 --> 01:05:08

rather as Malcolm X experienced it as a place where people are

01:05:08 --> 01:05:11

dressed the same and race doesn't matter and

01:05:12 --> 01:05:15

all of the hierarchy of

01:05:18 --> 01:05:23

American society just abolish it. Surely it had the same kind of

01:05:23 --> 01:05:28

idea in a kind of almost socialistic idea. Because much of

01:05:28 --> 01:05:33

his rhetoric when he was teaching, dodging the secret police in

01:05:33 --> 01:05:39

Tehran was about Islam as an anti elite movement. He read the Quran

01:05:39 --> 01:05:42

as being a series of stories about

01:05:43 --> 01:05:47

prophets who are from the people who experienced the poverty and

01:05:47 --> 01:05:52

the disempowerment of the people being oppressed by the tyrants,

01:05:53 --> 01:05:59

whether it's Nimrod, or Abu Lahab, or Pharaoh, or whoever he saw, it

01:05:59 --> 01:06:02

really is a kind of narrative of class struggle.

01:06:04 --> 01:06:05

And his

01:06:06 --> 01:06:10

point is, I think, a perfectly legitimate one that the tradition

01:06:10 --> 01:06:15

would not object to, which is that God tends to work through the

01:06:15 --> 01:06:17

despised and the brokenhearted.

01:06:18 --> 01:06:21

So as his they're doing his toe off thinking, Well, what is this

01:06:21 --> 01:06:24

about? Well, her tomb is here.

01:06:25 --> 01:06:33

And has mass are, is there. And this is a ritual of which she is

01:06:33 --> 01:06:38

in many respects the founders. Who does God choose? Not the Shah of

01:06:38 --> 01:06:43

Iran. He just had his enormous party that costs billions,

01:06:44 --> 01:06:45

Persepolis,

01:06:47 --> 01:06:52

building palaces for world leaders that only used that each leader

01:06:52 --> 01:06:54

had a palace and it was only used for two nights

01:06:56 --> 01:07:02

gigantic extravagance and contempt for the values of the masses. So

01:07:02 --> 01:07:07

he, on his tawaf, in front of the Kaaba thinks this, this is who God

01:07:07 --> 01:07:08

really chooses.

01:07:10 --> 01:07:14

From among all humanity, it was a woman, from among all women, it

01:07:14 --> 01:07:18

had to be a slave, and from among all slaves, a black maid.

01:07:20 --> 01:07:25

So he sees this as the socialist method message of the hunch. It's

01:07:25 --> 01:07:29

about it's the ritual of the poor. It is the shrine and temple of the

01:07:29 --> 01:07:31

poor, where they can be

01:07:32 --> 01:07:38

in the front, like anybody else, all of the normal disabilities and

01:07:38 --> 01:07:43

hierarchies are swept away in the world of the tawaf. Everybody is

01:07:43 --> 01:07:46

there and it doesn't matter whether you're stepping on the toe

01:07:46 --> 01:07:51

of a billionaire, or a Pakistani sweeper, it's just another human

01:07:51 --> 01:07:56

being, is very inspired by this. And this has been a theme with

01:07:57 --> 01:07:59

quite a lot of particularly Iranian

01:08:00 --> 01:08:03

Revolutionary writers. So one of the most popular

01:08:04 --> 01:08:11

religious women's magazines in Iran pay army hogwash is, miss the

01:08:12 --> 01:08:18

message of Hotjar seen as a kind of patroness of revolutionary

01:08:18 --> 01:08:23

women, God with the outcast that rejected the refugee, the asylum

01:08:23 --> 01:08:27

seekers are ethnically impure, all of those boxes are ticked, that's

01:08:27 --> 01:08:31

where God is and is not in the palaces of the wealthy. And wealth

01:08:31 --> 01:08:32

is a burden

01:08:34 --> 01:08:39

hanging around one's neck, pulling one down to the grave and to the

01:08:39 --> 01:08:40

earth.

01:08:42 --> 01:08:43

So this has been

01:08:46 --> 01:08:47

significant

01:08:49 --> 01:08:53

but not for everyone. Here is a Syrian writer who comes up with a

01:08:53 --> 01:08:56

very different interpretation, more old fashioned. What does

01:08:56 --> 01:09:02

hijau represent? For modern women, well mannered woman who obeys her

01:09:02 --> 01:09:05

husband believes in God whose husband settles her in Morocco is

01:09:05 --> 01:09:08

at peace with their status a second wife, who bears a child who

01:09:08 --> 01:09:10

is grateful to God for His blessings and never complains the

01:09:10 --> 01:09:12

model of the righteous and believing woman.

01:09:14 --> 01:09:15

That template as well.

01:09:18 --> 01:09:22

There's been something of an outpouring of literature about her

01:09:22 --> 01:09:26

in the modern Middle East, and some books in Pakistan as well,

01:09:27 --> 01:09:34

and also in Turkey, where her meaning as the patroness of Islam

01:09:34 --> 01:09:36

is explored in terms of contemporary arguments about

01:09:36 --> 01:09:38

women's roles.

01:09:40 --> 01:09:42

And he's a bit of an Arab nationalist as well. So we

01:09:42 --> 01:09:46

actually can't quite accept that she was a kind of very onic

01:09:46 --> 01:09:50

ancient Egyptian. He says she was actually a pure blooded Arab from

01:09:50 --> 01:09:54

Arabia. He has a chapter on this which doesn't actually give you

01:09:54 --> 01:09:57

any evidence but seems to be something that

01:09:58 --> 01:09:59

resonates with him.

01:10:01 --> 01:10:02

arroba

01:10:04 --> 01:10:05

so

01:10:10 --> 01:10:12

then modern Muslim feminists,

01:10:13 --> 01:10:18

referred Hassan who is from Pocket stone, like quite a few

01:10:18 --> 01:10:21

contemporary feminists, or at least women's writers, women's

01:10:21 --> 01:10:25

issues writers in the Muslim world have, I guess rightly seized upon

01:10:25 --> 01:10:31

her as a kind of emblem, rather as the feminists in the West Reading

01:10:31 --> 01:10:37

the Bible have seized upon her. So the image of autonomous femaleness

01:10:38 --> 01:10:42

she's constructed in those terms because she's on her own single

01:10:42 --> 01:10:48

mother, looking after her son and experiencing angels and being an

01:10:48 --> 01:10:49

agent.

01:10:50 --> 01:10:53

Autonomous is important not just for Muslim Daughters of hardware,

01:10:53 --> 01:10:55

but for all women who are oppressed by systems of thought,

01:10:56 --> 01:10:58

or structures based on ideas of gender, class or racial

01:10:58 --> 01:11:02

inequality. Like her, her women must have the faith and courage to

01:11:02 --> 01:11:05

venture out of the security of the known into the insecurity of the

01:11:05 --> 01:11:09

unknown, and to carve out with their own hands a new world from

01:11:09 --> 01:11:12

which the injustice isn't inequities separate men from women

01:11:12 --> 01:11:15

class from class race from race have been eliminated.

01:11:17 --> 01:11:20

Sounds very similar to what some of those African American

01:11:20 --> 01:11:22

feminists have been saying.

01:11:23 --> 01:11:26

And there is a convergence and reflect Hasson is occasionally

01:11:26 --> 01:11:32

invited to contribute to volumes edited by American feminists. But

01:11:32 --> 01:11:38

still, this is perhaps another of her Juris enigmas, ways in which

01:11:38 --> 01:11:44

she is veiled in that for the Western imaginary, whether

01:11:44 --> 01:11:49

evangelical or not, the Muslim really is the emblem of otherness.

01:11:50 --> 01:11:57

The Muslim is the Taliban, Muslim is Darish, the Muslim is the dark

01:11:57 --> 01:12:03

other, the get the Gentile, that unAmerican principle. And this

01:12:03 --> 01:12:07

idea of that radical othering of Muslims has become one of the key

01:12:07 --> 01:12:12

features of populism across the western world now. Whether it'd be

01:12:12 --> 01:12:16

Pauline Hanson, in Australia, or Breitbart News in the United

01:12:16 --> 01:12:20

States, or Viktor Orban in Hungary, or Marine LePen, their

01:12:20 --> 01:12:24

anxieties about rapid globalization and social change,

01:12:25 --> 01:12:30

and the death of tradition, tend to focus on a culprit a human

01:12:30 --> 01:12:33

culprit, rather than just globalization, which is usually

01:12:33 --> 01:12:37

the foreigner. And usually the foreigner, as represented by the

01:12:37 --> 01:12:43

Muslim, the asylum seeker refugee, the emblematic foreigner, the one

01:12:43 --> 01:12:49

who is present in such disturbingly large numbers, who is

01:12:49 --> 01:12:53

fertile, who is traditional, who is religious, who is all of the

01:12:53 --> 01:13:00

things that your once was, and now isn't, but on the right, there are

01:13:00 --> 01:13:01

certain

01:13:02 --> 01:13:07

nostalgic voices that wish that what's more, we were those things.

01:13:07 --> 01:13:12

So this is at the center of many of the psychic tensions of the

01:13:12 --> 01:13:18

modern West, populism accelerated by this issue of the Muslim mother

01:13:18 --> 01:13:25

and the veil. And hijab is kind of the emblem of that because of

01:13:27 --> 01:13:31

fecundity, because of that otherness, of racial difference

01:13:31 --> 01:13:37

have poverty has had once again is the symbol of untruthfulness. And

01:13:38 --> 01:13:41

the idea most recently of the migrant,

01:13:43 --> 01:13:45

the ancient story continues today.

01:13:46 --> 01:13:50

There she is even now heading out of Iraq or somewhere

01:13:51 --> 01:13:56

oppressed by something or other. This is present in our world. on a

01:13:56 --> 01:14:00

massive scale. Generally, it's the women who bear the brunt of armed

01:14:00 --> 01:14:04

conflict. They're the ones who are left to fend for themselves.

01:14:05 --> 01:14:09

They're the ones who are open to abuse and exploitation. And

01:14:09 --> 01:14:13

they're the ones who are the real leaders, in many cases, because

01:14:13 --> 01:14:14

they're the ones who have sub

01:14:16 --> 01:14:19

ledger, a leader, because she had sober

01:14:20 --> 01:14:24

and exemplar, the one around who's to whom we swell.

01:14:26 --> 01:14:27

And

01:14:30 --> 01:14:31

as a result,

01:14:33 --> 01:14:37

we remember that these stories are not just pretty tales of long ago,

01:14:37 --> 01:14:43

ancient epics, and legends, or saltiel or welline, that are in

01:14:43 --> 01:14:49

fact, representations of eternal human possibilities and situations

01:14:49 --> 01:14:51

that are absolutely with us today. And we need to remember this,

01:14:52 --> 01:14:56

Alicia reality's insistence that had just about solidarity with the

01:14:56 --> 01:14:59

poor, something which the modern Saudis seem to have forgotten with

01:14:59 --> 01:14:59

her

01:15:00 --> 01:15:02

insistence on putting the poor people as far as possible, out of

01:15:02 --> 01:15:06

sight and out of the way while you have these gigantic five star mega

01:15:06 --> 01:15:10

structures everywhere and a kind of plush Ritz Carlton experience

01:15:10 --> 01:15:12

of the hundreds that's not what it's there for

01:15:13 --> 01:15:16

the point of the Hajj is to emphasize that most unpopular

01:15:16 --> 01:15:22

reality in the eyes of the G 20, which is God is with the weak, the

01:15:22 --> 01:15:28

brokenhearted, the disregarded the despise the other race, the other

01:15:28 --> 01:15:31

gender, all of those things that the feminist and the Muslim

01:15:31 --> 01:15:37

thinkers have simultaneously identified, that it is not just

01:15:37 --> 01:15:43

about justice and equality, but is about where God's final

01:15:43 --> 01:15:48

vindication is likely to be found, because she had the zamzam and we

01:15:48 --> 01:15:49

revere her name.

01:15:50 --> 01:15:56

And so it is always in secret history. The leaders, the real

01:15:56 --> 01:16:00

leaders are often those who are almost invisible and seem to be at

01:16:00 --> 01:16:03

the back of the crowd somewhere while the demagogues are

01:16:03 --> 01:16:08

thundering at the front. But it's prayer and patience and pure

01:16:08 --> 01:16:13

heartedness that in the grand vision, truly make history and

01:16:13 --> 01:16:20

trigger the divine response. So perhaps that's the final lesson

01:16:20 --> 01:16:24

that we should draw from this veiled leader.

01:16:26 --> 01:16:28

That's what I've got any questions?

01:16:33 --> 01:16:34

Anyone still awake?

01:16:41 --> 01:16:43

Well, there's a lot of legendary material, there's nothing that's

01:16:43 --> 01:16:46

there in sort of reliable Muslim scriptures.

01:16:47 --> 01:16:50

There is in some of the

01:16:51 --> 01:16:55

Muslim legends, the idea that she was Pharaoh's daughter, we do find

01:16:55 --> 01:16:59

that some of that isn't ideal yet that seems to have come from

01:17:00 --> 01:17:03

Jewish ideas which were there to kind of represent her as the

01:17:03 --> 01:17:08

essence of the oppressive otherness of Egypt, mother think,

01:17:08 --> 01:17:11

of any possibility of establishing something like that historically.

01:17:17 --> 01:17:18

That you showed,

01:17:19 --> 01:17:21

projected her as

01:17:25 --> 01:17:29

the fact that if you were in Italy in the 17th century, that was the

01:17:29 --> 01:17:31

only way you could ever possibly imagine a woman is looking.

01:17:33 --> 01:17:37

And Christ would always be blonde, and that was just how things were.

01:17:42 --> 01:17:44

Is there anything about her activism?

01:17:45 --> 01:17:46

Unfortunately,

01:17:49 --> 01:17:52

I'm not sure that I recall the stories. I think if you look at

01:17:54 --> 01:17:58

the Sierra of evolution, and also at Tavares history, they're both

01:17:58 --> 01:18:05

in English. You can find various accounts of Abraham visiting them

01:18:06 --> 01:18:09

in the desert, bringing them provision subsequently have

01:18:09 --> 01:18:14

traveled down from Palestine in order to see them. And then

01:18:14 --> 01:18:18

presiding over the marriage of her son, Ishmael to a woman from

01:18:18 --> 01:18:22

Georgia, which was a local Arabian tribe, and then being buried

01:18:22 --> 01:18:26

though, that's all I recall, but there's a lot of legendary

01:18:26 --> 01:18:27

material that's out there.

01:18:32 --> 01:18:33

Anyone else?

01:18:35 --> 01:18:40

Are we persuaded by this idea that this founders of Islam actually

01:18:40 --> 01:18:44

happens to be America's famous biblical feminist icon is an irony

01:18:44 --> 01:18:45

or strangeness didn't

01:18:46 --> 01:18:47

make anything of it.

01:18:54 --> 01:18:59

Okay, plenty of food for thought to ensure that give your patients

01:19:01 --> 01:19:05

Cambridge Muslim College, training the next generation of Muslim

01:19:05 --> 01:19:06

thinkers

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